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Here's a really good interpretation of the ending from gamefaqs:gamefaqs user posted:I think many people have missed the point of the Big Boss twist. It's certainly a condescending betrayal, but there's a deeper meaning here. It's not about how awesome it is that you are Big Boss. Rather, it's about how horrible it is.
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Nov 1, 2015 21:10
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| # ? May 29, 2024 16:39 |
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I think you might have found the only decent post in all of GameFAQs.
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Nov 1, 2015 21:15
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Detective No. 27 posted:I love that MGS2 was a remake of MGS1, and that MGSV ended up being a remake of MGS2. MGS1 was also a remake of the first metal gears
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Nov 1, 2015 21:26
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Medic's loss of identity isn't so bad. He was a merc and professional soldier, so he knew that he might lose his life at any time. If he had any family, or connections outside of MSF, he had to always be at peace with never seeing them again. And his primary motivation for being in MSF was working for Big Boss and earning money, presumably in that order. So to realize you were given the authority and identity of Big Boss and access to all of his assets would actually be Medic's dream come true. The grin at the end was that of a guy who was living the dream.
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Nov 1, 2015 21:32
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Oh, the metal gear is actually functional at the end. That's the only new thing in MGS1 gameplay wise. And everything psycho mantis. Ninja? Check Fist fight with Greyfox? Check Greyfox enters before you? Check Boss fight with a hostage present and the boss can curve his projectile's trajectory? Check Boss fight with something invisible? Boss fight with a machine gun and you need to hide inbetween boxes laid out in a grid? Boss fight with a sniper across an impassible area? Win with remote controlled rockets? Boss fight with a Hind - D? Boss fight with a tank? Key cards? Getting put in prison and losing all your equipment? Seemingly endless square staircase with guys chasing you? Rescue the scientist who's working on metal gear? Meet up with a cute girl soldier who's embedded in the facility? Escape the base before time runs out? etc etc etc, they are all check Modest Mao fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 21:32
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Modest Mao posted:Oh, the metal gear is actually functional at the end. That's the only new thing in MGS1 gameplay wise. Metal Gear D worked fine until you exploited its vulnerability and it exploded, leaving you without equipment and having to fistfight the surviving pilot.
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Nov 1, 2015 22:06
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Big Boss's plan feels like a prototype for MGS2. The Patriots endgame in MGS2 is to "create context" by selecting what experiences and information are relevant to social evolution, sans ideology ( ). This is Big Boss's plan with Outer Heaven, and Venom is his Raiden. If Venom had talked about schistosomiasis or a relevant medical thing in the tapes it would have indicated something from his previous life. In game he has no previous life to steal. The grin and mirror-punch is so ambivalent that "what does Venom feel about this?" is a bad question. It only makes sense non-diegetically. How do you, the player, feel about this? Big Boss seems bad in that cutscene because of the diegetic victimization of Venom, but being Big Boss is fun! We have no experience to contextualize Venom's loss! Our only context is being the leader of a kickass proto-PMC. Venom embraces his new identity, Raiden throws it away (until the sequels.)Big Boss: 1, Zero: 0 CharlieWhiskey posted:I think the answer is at the reddit link 3 posts above yours.
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Nov 1, 2015 23:57
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Hobo By Design posted:Big Boss's plan feels like a prototype for MGS2. The Patriots endgame in MGS2 is to "create context" by selecting what experiences and information are relevant to social evolution, sans ideology ( Zero created Venom, and managed to get the memetic clone of Big Boss that he was looking for.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:09
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I am getting all sorts of things wrong today.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:14
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Like Big Boss's involvement in Venom was basically "hey we just turned this dude into a copy of you, should we give him surgery so you can get out of here alive?" after he woke up Zero kicked off the process a year or two after Ground Zeroes iirc
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Nov 2, 2015 00:21
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Panfilo posted:Here it seems to be done in tapes; I assume this was chosen because it was faster/cheaper for the developers? The tapes are because Kojima played Bioshock and thought the audio log system was neat.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:06
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The tapes are good because you can listen to the briefing as you make your move towards the objective, which was super loving exciting to me as i was crouching towards my first soviet base in the Phantom Limbs mission. Now I just kinda hear the same tapes over and over again as I kill anybody that's A++ and below, and kidnap anything above with impunity.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:18
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ayn rand hand job posted:Like Big Boss's involvement in Venom was basically "hey we just turned this dude into a copy of you, should we give him surgery so you can get out of here alive?" after he woke up He waits to say more or less this for at least the duration of the events of MGS5, and possibly not until Venom takes command of Outer Heaven. Thanks a lot, Boss.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:19
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Tapes are just codec calls, except you select the one you want instead of spam calling a person until they talk about a specific thing, and you can keep playing while they're happening.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:19
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Nakar posted:Zero was responsible for the idea, but Big Boss refused to stop it. That's where the dickishness comes in. There's still some ambiguity as he didn't just abandon Venom to be assassinated (although there's some question whether Quiet was even fooled in the first place), but at any time he could've said "So yo I'm the actual Big Boss and you're one of my best dudes and man some really weird poo poo has gone down lately and they turned you into my body double, not my idea, let's get outta here and figure out our next course of action" and the situation could've panned out more or less exactly as it did with Venom covering for BB, except with an actual say in the matter. That actually would've been cool to have somebody like two Kiefers talking to themselves, as you the player, tries to get a grip on the situation, and the other thinking this is business as usual and assures you that this is a rare opportunity to take what you've learned from me and shape our vision together. Could've actually been treated as a "hallucination" too even, with the Big Boss pretending he's a vision of what he once was, without the horn. That would've required Kiefer saying much more than a paragraph though.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:24
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The ability to listen to the tapes in missions is awesome and I definitely tried to use it as ofteBOSS, The russians are transporting a number of high value targets to a base in the east
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Nov 2, 2015 01:35
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CharlieWhiskey posted:Medic's loss of identity isn't so bad. He was a merc and professional soldier, so he knew that he might lose his life at any time. If he had any family, or connections outside of MSF, he had to always be at peace with never seeing them again. And his primary motivation for being in MSF was working for Big Boss and earning money, presumably in that order. So to realize you were given the authority and identity of Big Boss and access to all of his assets would actually be Medic's dream come true. The grin at the end was that of a guy who was living the dream. And I really love how this series never ceases to challenge my own perspective.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:58
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Hobo By Design posted:D'oh. I thought that had to do with stuff on the white-noise sounding MSX N313 tape because I'm dumb and don't use reddit. I don't blame you, even skimming that "thread"(?) gave me a headache.
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Nov 2, 2015 02:03
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Ausmund posted:And I really love how this series never ceases to challenge my own perspective. That's what makes the nonlinear storytelling in these games so effective. If you start with the first MSX game, you just hate Big Boss because he's a liar that uses you, but then you see more and more people that are in love with him and praise him or want to surpass his greatness, and then through Snake Eater most kind of fall in love with him too, and then in Peace Walker people still like him even though some major red flags are being raised, and then by the end of MGSV you're back to where you started to begin with- being used and lied to by Big Boss again. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 02:24
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I still believe in Big Boss.
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Nov 2, 2015 02:26
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Him punching the mirror was him just trying to engage Big Boss in a little CQC practice before saluting him and saying "Thanks for that, Boss. Thanks for everything."
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Nov 2, 2015 02:30
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Punching is the only way that Venom knows how to express love.
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Nov 2, 2015 02:34
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Ausmund posted:Discovering the man you devoted your life too is a coward and used you as a decoy dummy to save his rear end would make it all the worse for me. Seeing Venom abandoned and unconscious in the crashed van during the reveal like some nobody was despicable to me. This game definitely gave me a very different view of Big Boss, where as before I thought, "yeah, I know he becomes an antagonist at some point, but man he's sympathetic and honorable as hell." This is probably my favorite part of the twist (more on paper than in execution) because even though the whole body double plan was undertaken without Big Boss' knowledge or consent, he still went along with it while easily being in a position to object or change the plan if he wanted to. It's an interesting parallel to Venom in the game, where you mostly see him being passively evil - looking on as this or that person is tortured on Mother Base, for example. So the real Big Boss is basically passively evil in the same way, which is really surprising given how his being manipulated in Snake Eater was enough for him to break ties with America entirely and start him on this path. The thing that was even crazier to me was that even after the reveal of Big Boss being a hypocritical shitbag tyrant, I was still like "oh, cool" when he sparked up a cigar and got on his motorcycle. That's some serious personality cult poo poo  When I talked to a friend about the plot after we both finished the Truth mission and tapes, he was still sympathetic to Big Boss and didn't see him as a villain. That stuff is what makes Big Boss and the twist really interesting to me, especially since he was consciously meant to be an iconic figurehead in both MGSV and Peace Walker. It makes a lot of the post-game grousing from MGS fans (myself included) about not being able to play as the real Big Boss pretty drat sharp in retrospect. "We don't get to play as the real Big Boss? That's bullshit!" "Why would you want to play as a guy who manipulated his closest comrades and killed lots of innocent people just to cover his own rear end?" "...because he's cool." MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 03:13 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 02:53
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Nakar posted:Zero was responsible for the idea, but Big Boss refused to stop it. That's where the dickishness comes in. There's still some ambiguity as he didn't just abandon Venom to be assassinated (although there's some question whether Quiet was even fooled in the first place), but at any time he could've said "So yo I'm the actual Big Boss and you're one of my best dudes and man some really weird poo poo has gone down lately and they turned you into my body double, not my idea, let's get outta here and figure out our next course of action" and the situation could've panned out more or less exactly as it did with Venom covering for BB, except with an actual say in the matter. Considering that everything kind of went tits up before the entire plan could be finished that seems like wishful thinking There isn't exactly a long time where Venom is actively awake before XOF attacks.
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Nov 2, 2015 03:06
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ayn rand hand job posted:There isn't exactly a long time where Venom is actively awake before XOF attacks. 15-16 days at least, probably even more since BB woke up before Venom.
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Nov 2, 2015 03:28
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grancheater posted:15-16 days at least, probably even more since BB woke up before Venom. Most of the those weeks were spent sedated and drifting in and out of consciousness
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Nov 2, 2015 03:33
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grancheater posted:15-16 days at least, probably even more since BB woke up before Venom. Yeah, the first of the Truth tapes has Big Boss up and out of bed, and it seems like he'd at least been briefed on the whole plan before that because Ocelot says something like "we have to move ahead of schedule," implying that Big Boss had some prior knowledge. And for as mellow as Ocelot is in this game, it's pretty crazy for him to be like "nah, the medic wants it this way" while the dude is still comatose.
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Nov 2, 2015 03:33
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Yeah, the first of the Truth tapes has Big Boss up and out of bed, and it seems like he'd at least been briefed on the whole plan before that because Ocelot says something like "we have to move ahead of schedule," implying that Big Boss had some prior knowledge. And for as mellow as Ocelot is in this game, it's pretty crazy for him to be like "nah, the medic wants it this way" while the dude is still comatose. the timeline is something like this: mid-february - big boss wakes up, inadvertantly triggering psycho mantis to blow up a plane feb 26 - venom wakes up for the first time. psycho mantis is transferred to a soviet research facility, causing volgin to become the man on fire, skullface takes interest in psycho & volgin feb. march 9 - after the first 2 episodes of waking up, panicking, and getting sedated again, venom undergoes plastic surgery to make him look like big boss and is sedated march 11 - xof raids the hospital looking for big boss so yeah, while it mostly works out to about 2 weeks between venom waking up, he spends almost all that time sedated and even how much of that is kind of unknown, since everything before quiet coming into the room could be some sort of false or altered memory
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Nov 2, 2015 03:51
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I wonder if these voice actors know what they're getting into with Kojima... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNHm4u4Ssr0 "You want me to read this while in character?!?!"
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Nov 2, 2015 04:01
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So have all the tapes been found and analyzed by the community or are there still outliers?
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Nov 2, 2015 04:02
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MeatwadIsGod posted:The thing that was even crazier to me was that even after the reveal of Big Boss being a hypocritical shitbag tyrant, I was still like "oh, cool" when he sparked up a cigar and got on his motorcycle. That's some serious personality cult poo poo Most of the people I've talked to about this game have had a similar attitude, and it reminds me of the old breaking bad thread where half of the people thought Walt was a cool badass and the rest of the people were like what no this guy is reprehensibly evil and you're a piece of poo poo for liking him but I'm still going to watch the show I guess my point is please don't turn this thread into the breaking bad thread it's bad enough that thread happened once
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Nov 2, 2015 04:05
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Shaocaholica posted:So have all the tapes been found and analyzed by the community or are there still outliers? Pretty sure the game has been data-mined to hell and back, to the point where a cutscene for an FOB event that's yet to be unveiled was found and lots of cut audio clips of Kiefer that I wish were in the game (him saying "you're fired!" and "consecutive C-Q-C!"). I don't think any other cutscenes are likely unless they come with some form of DLC, which I also don't think is likely at this point.
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Nov 2, 2015 04:05
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Has anyone even bothered to ask why Venom has an MSX computer in the bathroom?
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Nov 2, 2015 04:08
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Shaocaholica posted:Has anyone even bothered to ask why Venom has an MSX computer in the bathroom? One of haoma's side effects is diarrhea.
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Nov 2, 2015 04:10
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Nemesis Of Moles posted:The ability to listen to the tapes in missions is awesome and I definitely tried to use it as ofteBOSS, The russians are transporting a number of high value targets to a base in the east Frustrated the hell out of me. Every time I would be listening to some cool lore related tape and just at an interesting bit some jackass would call me and remind me to mark enemies or some other obvious thing then I'd have to go back into the idroid, rewind, then set it going again, then inevitably repeat after thirty seconds when it happened again. Would it really have been so hard to be able to set the tapes to auto-pause during codec calls or something?
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Nov 2, 2015 04:17
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ThomasPaine posted:Frustrated the hell out of me. Every time I would be listening to some cool lore related tape and just at an interesting bit some jackass would call me and remind me to mark enemies or some other obvious thing then I'd have to go back into the idroid, rewind, then set it going again, then inevitably repeat after thirty seconds when it happened again. Would it really have been so hard to be able to set the tapes to auto-pause during codec calls or something? That or be able to disable radio hints like (mercifully) you could for the iDroid's voice. That was kind of crazy oversight for a game that most people would log at least 40 hours of play time in.
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Nov 2, 2015 04:19
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Shaocaholica posted:Has anyone even bothered to ask why Venom has an MSX computer in the bathroom? Truth be told I still don't even know what's going on in that last bit with the MSX. Where did he get the tape? When is this? Did BB just decide one day 'yeah better let this chucklefuck know he's living a lie'. What exactly is happening with the tape anyway. I guess it's the plans for Snake's Operation Intrude thing but I'm not sure whether the guy giving you orders in that is Venom or BB. Ah whatever metal gear is way better if you don't think too hard on the details mostly.
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Nov 2, 2015 04:20
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The data tape was a huge missed opportunity to sneak in an actual MSX program with some kojima fuckery message in it. If it were up to me, I would have let it play in the background over music which could be subtracted out using clean music from the soundtrack game data.
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Nov 2, 2015 04:42
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ThomasPaine posted:Truth be told I still don't even know what's going on in that last bit with the MSX. Where did he get the tape? When is this? Did BB just decide one day 'yeah better let this chucklefuck know he's living a lie'. What exactly is happening with the tape anyway. I guess it's the plans for Snake's Operation Intrude thing but I'm not sure whether the guy giving you orders in that is Venom or BB. Ah whatever metal gear is way better if you don't think too hard on the details mostly. You have to infer most of that, but its kind of confusing. In the ending, you're seeing a time jump happen. The cutscene starts and we're watching Venom basically figure out the whole Big Boss Is Inside Of Us All twist. The tape, I presume, is sent to him by Naked Snake at some point to properly explain the plan.Theres then a time skip to just before the end of MG, where Venom has been living as Big Boss for a long time. Clearly the operation was set up by Naked, and why Venom breaks the mirror and does his wee smirk and walks away from the shards is up to you. I kinda think that's the point where Venom decides HE is the true big boss and he don't need no stinking Fake Snake telling him what's what, gently caress that guy. Until this point, I'd have to guess that Naked Snake and Venom are working together in some capacity, to allow the myth of Big Boss to spread and grow. The tape is details on Snake's infiltration, and its not made clear what Venoms role in the mission was 'supposed' to be, whether he was to die to Solid, or to do something else. Either way, I take the ending to be the same as MGS2s, Venom goes off into the black to forge his own path. Which involves a lovely chicken robot and dying to Michael Biehn
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Nov 2, 2015 04:45
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So how can I get a hold of the cassette textures from TPP? Are the dumped textures out there or would I have to dump my own?
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Nov 2, 2015 08:18
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