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Ras Het posted:Don't you think reading is studying? Well, okay, maybe that's not exactly what I meant. I usually really enjoy slow, studious, "active" reading. In this case though, it's just frustrating, after each chapter, flipping to the back and seeing stuff like "Oh, this is actually a terrific play on words in the original Russian, since, of course, etc etc", or "Anyone who's familiar with 1930s Moscow will see the scathing irony in this, since, of course, etc etc" (paraphrasing, obviously, but that's how it feels). Having these things spelled out for me after the fact doesn't enhance my enjoyment of the text as I'm reading, or even after the fact really, since the best reaction it can evoke from me is "oh... okay, I guess that would have been good to know" or "Oh, yeah, I suppose that was pretty clever, in hindsight..." Since having these high points spelled out to me afterwards can't really help me recognize and appreciate future high points as I'm reading (they will go over my head no matter what), it never gets any more enjoyable going along. It doesn't build on itself. This makes the work I'd have to put in feel less "worth it", if that makes sense. EDIT: Though, I should say, I am enjoying the book on some level. It reminds me of Catch 22 in a lot of ways. I just feel bad because I know I won't be able to enjoy it on the level it probably deserves, on the level that more well-read people praise it, and that's the frustrating part. Moacher fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 23:56
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Moacher posted:Well, okay, maybe that's not exactly what I meant. 95% of the people who've read and enjoyed Master & Margarita know jack poo poo about '30s Moscow or the intricacies of early Soviet politics. I certainly don't. All you really need to know to "get" and enjoy that book is the basics of Christianity, and that Bulgakov was on some level opposed to the Soviet system. That's it. It sounds like you have some bizarre inferiority complex, like as if reading an esteemed book was some kind of a task with certain duties, and you can't perform up to it because you don't know things? And thats like so not how it works. You read that book, and next time you read something about 1930s Moscow you go "oh yeah I knew that from Bulgakov". That's how being "well-read" works. The endnotes aren't there to tell you how to read the book but to enhance your experience. It's such an rear end-backwards attitude to think that you're like being chastised by them. It's not a job. No one's forcing you to read a book. Address the feelings it arouses in you.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:15
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I like feeling like I'm missing stuff in a classic book because it means when I re-read it in 10, 20, 30 years when I know more stuff about things, in general, I'll get more and more out of it. It's nice.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:21
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Ras Het posted:It sounds like you have some bizarre inferiority complex, like as if reading an esteemed book was some kind of a task with certain duties, and you can't perform up to it because you don't know things? Hmmm... I wonder what could inspire feelings like that in the "Quit being a loving child and read some real literature" thread...  Jokes aside, I appreciate the response. And you're right, I'm probably overthinking it.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:28
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Well I mean I said that sincerely, in that there's no point enabling your weird attitude. You pick what you read (book clubs are stupid btw), and you get out of it what you put into it. That's completely up to you. You can skip the boring Jesus parts if you want to, no harm done.
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Oct 28, 2015 00:35
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Moacher posted:
Welcome brother
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Oct 28, 2015 00:55
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Ras Het posted:Well I mean I said that sincerely, in that there's no point enabling your weird attitude. You pick what you read (book clubs are stupid btw), and you get out of it what you put into it. That's completely up to you. You can skip the boring Jesus parts if you want to, no harm done. The Jesus parts were the least boring parts of TMaM to me, because I know a lot about christianity but not a lot about the specifics of life in the soviet union.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:56
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Jesus bits best bits.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:09
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I was having a lot of the same problems with Master and Margarita. It just didn't grab me (and seriously I had a lot of trouble with the characters). Maybe I'll try it again sometime, in case it's a mood thing, but maybe it's just not my cup of tea. I don't have much to report other than having read the Metamorphosis and the Woman in the Dunes. Liked both, though I liked the Metamorphosis more. I'd like to try some Chinese literature, but I'm probably too busy for the rest of the year for any of the big ones. Maybe next year.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:26
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Moacher posted:Well, okay, maybe that's not exactly what I meant. That seems like a terrible way to read the book, IMO. Just read it straight through and then go and read about all of the references and wordplay etc., which will make for an interesting and different second read. If you are constantly interrupting the flow of the novel it's naturally going to be way less enjoyable. It wasn't written to be read that way, and you can certainly appreciate it the first time without picking up all that stuff. Also the translation can make a huge difference. Personally I find the Pevear translation to be far more accessible (and fun) than the Burgin/O'Connor.
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Oct 28, 2015 20:45
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white teeth is really funny and the scenes in the middle class people's house are on point. i also decided to read some dylan thomas, who I thought of mainly as a poet and I didn't know anything about except 'do not go quiet' etc. The poems in this collection mostly don't faze me, but it has some stories and 'the burning baby' is absolutely crazy.
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Oct 28, 2015 21:07
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Zesty Mordant posted:white teeth is really funny and the scenes in the middle class people's house are on point. Under Milk Wood is his masterpiece anyway, poetry-wise. Haven't read his stories however, can imagine they'd be crazy
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Oct 28, 2015 21:20
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Zesty Mordant posted:i also decided to read some dylan thomas, who I thought of mainly as a poet and I didn't know anything about except 'do not go quiet' etc. Seems like you don't know that one very well either
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Oct 28, 2015 23:24
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I read V and it was cool particularly since parts of it are just short stories from Slow Learner that have been made better. Even tho I think it's more readable than Gravity's Rainbow I feel like I got less out of it, in terms of actually knowing what some of the things Pynchon was going for were. GR had a few themes that it was absolutely coming back to all the time and that really stood out as being "why it was written this way" while V I'm not so sure about.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:29
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CestMoi posted:Seems like you don't know that one very well either do not go quietly into that something something
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Oct 28, 2015 23:51
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This thread's barrier for entry is far too low
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Oct 29, 2015 00:10
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What is the point of having a big thread to be pretentious in if just anyone can come in and be like "i like that one poem where it's like "faster and faster in the widening thing the falcon cannot hear the falconsman""
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Oct 29, 2015 00:12
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CestMoi posted:I read V and it was cool particularly since parts of it are just short stories from Slow Learner that have been made better. Even tho I think it's more readable than Gravity's Rainbow I feel like I got less out of it, in terms of actually knowing what some of the things Pynchon was going for were. GR had a few themes that it was absolutely coming back to all the time and that really stood out as being "why it was written this way" while V I'm not so sure about. I think it's pretty well controlled. The writing style of the "inhuman" parts (V. and everything around V., anything with machines, most of Stencil's imaginations of the past) contrast very sharply with the "human" ones (Benny Profane). It deliberately tempts you with these sublime images but then throws in a chapter about a fat guy who can't tie his shoes properly. I didn't really like the themes of Gravity's Rainbow as much.
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Oct 29, 2015 00:26
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Zesty Mordant posted:white teeth is really funny and the scenes in the middle class people's house are on point. It's very funny and in some parts poignant as well but I also feel like she had no idea how to end the book and the very last section was pretty stupid. It had been fairly real and convincing up until then but it jumps into ridiculousness and not in a good way. But up until that point, it's good. the TV adaptation is worth watching as well IMO I read most of NW a few months ago but wasn't as into it, but also I get tired of British class drama poo poo pretty quick these days.
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Oct 29, 2015 04:36
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CestMoi posted:What is the point of having a big thread to be pretentious in if just anyone can come in and be like "i like that one poem where it's like "faster and faster in the widening thing the falcon cannot hear the falconsman"" That one's my favoirite by ezra shilling!
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Oct 29, 2015 07:58
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CestMoi posted:What is the point of having a big thread to be pretentious in if just anyone can come in and be like "i like that one poem where it's like "faster and faster in the widening thing the falcon cannot hear the falconsman"" I'm going to reread "Conflict and Harmony", by Alexei Tolstoy, soon.
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Nov 1, 2015 05:26
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CestMoi posted:What is the point of having a big thread to be pretentious in if just anyone can come in and be like "i like that one poem where it's like "faster and faster in the widening thing the falcon cannot hear the falconsman""
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Nov 1, 2015 13:51
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What are good sites to get ideas for what the classic stories are about, for example as a jumping off point to use in book reports? Also I can't believe The Scrivener and Billy Budd were written by the same person. The former owned and the latter was an incredible slog. Probably shouldn't have read them back-to-back Lunchmeat Larry posted:I dunno, I thought this thread was more an emergency intervention for people who've been posting about Dresden Files for 124 pages Dresden Files is fine!
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Nov 2, 2015 01:36
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Kraps posted:Dresden Files is fine! Not really.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:42
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what is Dresden Files is it alt-wwii fiction you mother fuckers it is alt-wwii fiction isnt it
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Nov 2, 2015 01:50
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Mel Mudkiper posted:what is Dresden Files Yeah man alt-wwii fiction is only good if somebody is wearing a pig suit and they fight with pies in airplanes
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Nov 2, 2015 01:55
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Kraps posted:Dresden Files is fine! 
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Nov 2, 2015 01:57
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Mel Mudkiper posted:
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Nov 2, 2015 01:58
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Cloks posted:Yeah man alt-wwii fiction is only good if somebody is wearing a pig suit and they fight with pies in airplanes what on earth are you talking about
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Nov 2, 2015 02:07
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Mel Mudkiper posted:what on earth are you talking about Gravity's Rainbow, I believe. Took me a second.
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Nov 2, 2015 03:12
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Mel Mudkiper posted:what on earth are you talking about Gravity's Rainbow
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Nov 2, 2015 03:12
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Mel Mudkiper posted:what is Dresden Files It's about a wizard who lives in Chicago and rides dinosaurs and his name is Harry Dresden. It's insanely epic.
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Nov 2, 2015 10:44
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hmm... shall i read about dinosaur-riding wizard or this story about an aging lit professor coming to terms with his mortality?
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Nov 2, 2015 11:07
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also, if there are books about dinosaur-riding wizards coming to terms with aging (magicians is p. much that, with less dinosaurs), why are there no books about aging lit professors riding dinosaurs?
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Nov 2, 2015 11:11
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The Death of Ivan Illyich's Raptor
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Nov 2, 2015 11:15
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The Bone Clocks has an aging lit professor coming to terms with his mortality and body hopping wizards who shoot physic lasers out of their chakra eyes and a  magic mumbogooblyjumbogook blowout climax.
High Warlord Zog fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 12:09
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High Warlord Zog posted:The Bone Clocks has an aging lit professor coming to terms with his mortality and body hopping wizards who shoot physic lasers out of their chakra eyes and a sounds cool!
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Nov 2, 2015 12:33
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I'm only on CHapter 2 of Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man so far, and Daedalus is just sort of being a teenager and it's okay but it seems like it's shaping up to have some loving cool fights between T rexs and ICe GIants in the later chapters which will be sick.
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Nov 2, 2015 12:40
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CestMoi posted:I'm only on CHapter 2 of Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man so far, and Daedalus is just sort of being a teenager and it's okay but it seems like it's shaping up to have some loving cool fights between T rexs and ICe GIants in the later chapters which will be sick. Over the course of the novel it matures prose-wise. First-person, present-tense.
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Nov 2, 2015 13:31
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Present tense dinosaur fights are going to be intense.
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Nov 2, 2015 13:48
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