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Pinterest Mom posted:Because we have regional representation mandates in the constitution and in legislation, any MMP system would almost certainly have to be proportional by province, not proportional country-wide. Well, that's actually quite an elegant solution! I wish I had a better argument against it, just out of principle, but I think a regionally restricted MMP would solve a lot of the problems I see with MMP in general.
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Nov 2, 2015 06:30
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While we're at it, here's my issue with STV: MMPs ensures that every place in the country retains a local member. STV seems to, by having MPs be elected from geographic areas, but in practice you face a tradeoff between proportionality and local representation. Look at, say, Calgary vs Saskatchewan. Calgary has 10 seats. Saskatchewan has 14. Calgary's easy to deal with: you have the entire city as a ten member district, or split it in half and get two five member districts. The threshold to get elected is 9% for the ten member district, ~17% for the five member district. Which one you choose matters: you probably get only Conservatives and Liberals if you choose five member districts, you might get a Green and/or New Democrat with the ten member district. Constituent services probably aren't affected too much for Conservative voters: they get 5-6 MPs that split the city among themselves, instead of the 8-10 they would get otherwise. That's not too much of a higher workload, and because the city is a reasonably geographic area, the Liberals, NDP, and Green MPs (if any) are still able to do a good job representing their constituents. Saskatchewan, though, is really hard to deal with. Splitting the province in half, 7/7, isn't feasible. Seven MPs for Saskatoon + the north, and seven MPs for Regina + the south means two things: MPs would have to represent obscenely large areas, and candidates from the cities have a structural advantage over candidates from rural areas. A local figure in Regina could count on a "local" pool of support of three ridings, and, thanks to Regina being the media market for the south of the province, would at least be somewhat familiar to people from rural areas. A local figure in Moose Jaw, though, wouldn't be known to people from Swift Current or Estevan or wherever. Because of that imbalance, you could end up with 4/7 or 5/7 MPs for the southern SK riding being from Regina, which badly underrepresents rural people. So you have to do smaller subdivisions: The Regina CMA can support 3 seats, the Saskatoon CMA can support 4. Those are thresholds of 25% and 20% to win seats, respectively. Voters of smaller parties are almost certain to not be represented by an MP of their preferred party. That leaves you with 7 seats for the rest of Saskatchewan, and it's hard to divvy those up. Northern/Southern doesn't work - in the worst case, you get a riding with one Conservative, one Liberal, and one New Democrat that each have to represent half the physical area of the province. You could do 2/2/3, but those are quotas of 33% and 25% to be elected, which is barely proportional, and you have the problem where minor party supporters in big cities get represented, but minor party supporters in rural areas can't get their vote to count: 10% Green or CPC in the Toronto core means an MP, but 20% Liberal support in rural Saskatchewan would get shut out in all three ridings. It's impossible to design STV ridings that don't either screw over people regionally, or have some areas of the country be more "proportional" than others. Either of those make me uncomfortable. MMP guarantees a local MP for everyone, with a second (or maybe even third!) "best loser" MP in almost every district, which ensures that constituent services are rooted in the locality, and means that every part of a province has the same amount of proportionality.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:15
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Rime posted:Excess of applicants for the foreign investor visa, otherwise known as "buying Canadian citizenship". These guys were planning to turn a ghost town into a passport-mill by abusing that system. Is this the first you heard of that program? It's existed for quite a while, and only recently had it's citizenship cost increased.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:18
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jm20 posted:Is this the first you heard of that program? It's existed for quite a while, and only recently had it's citizenship cost increased.  Holy gently caress are you guys, like, totally retarded, illiterate, or a combination of both? Of course I know about the loving program, it is the context of this failed scheme which is outrageous.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:28
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Rime posted:
It's no different than starting a subway or another franchise. The business immigrant investor in both cases parts with their money, however in the case of a franchisee or non-failed business to start they actually stand a chance to recoup the cost of citizenship over time. You're making a big deal out of nothing.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:35
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jm20 posted:It's no different than starting a subway or another franchise. The business immigrant investor in both cases parts with their money, however in the case of a franchisee or non-failed business to start they actually stand a chance to recoup the cost of citizenship over time. You're making a big deal out of nothing. I would be pretty ok with them killing the investor immigration program since we aren't even really getting Subways out of it.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:48
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Pinterest Mom posted:Saskatchewan, though, is really hard to deal with. Splitting the province in half, 7/7, isn't feasible. Seven MPs for Saskatoon + the north, and seven MPs for Regina + the south means two things: MPs would have to represent obscenely large areas, and candidates from the cities have a structural advantage over candidates from rural areas. A local figure in Regina could count on a "local" pool of support of three ridings, and, thanks to Regina being the media market for the south of the province, would at least be somewhat familiar to people from rural areas. A local figure in Moose Jaw, though, wouldn't be known to people from Swift Current or Estevan or wherever. Because of that imbalance, you could end up with 4/7 or 5/7 MPs for the southern SK riding being from Regina, which badly underrepresents rural people. How do you design an MMP system where this isn't true? Let's take a theoretical system where we doubled the number of seats and had the new seats allocated proportionally to the candidates who got the highest vote share in their riding but didn't win. In this case, Saskatchewan would have 28 seats. After this election it went 10con/3ndp/1lib for seats and roughly 50con/25ndp/25lib for vote share. So in this system, the cons would get 4 seats, the ndp 4, and the libs 6 to make the results proportional. The cons would have their four candidates who lost (all in urban ridings) get in. The 4 ndp runners up would be 2 in Saskatoon, 1 in Regina, and 1 in Prince Albert. The 6 lib runners up would be 1 in Regina, 3 in Saskatoon, and 1 in the far north. So all but two of the new MPs would be in urban areas and there wouldn't be any in rural areas south of Prince Albert (which is basically the entirety of the rural population in Saskatchewan). Doubling the seats seems unrealistic, and with fewer seats I think the results would be just as bad. You could change the way the proportional seats are allocated, but I don't know how you can guarantee any rural representation. I guess you could make the seats go by party list instead and force the parties to have alternating rural and urban people on it? That seems overly complicated and susceptible to in-party corruption and incompetent candidates.
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Nov 2, 2015 08:10
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Chicken posted:How do you design an MMP system where this isn't true? How do you design any system where urban and rural are fairly balanced? Right now rural is over represented. With the existing system as the baseline for the regional representation map under MMP this will still be true whether or not weird cases like Saskatchewan sometimes reverse it locally. You have pointed out to an added virtue of MMP though, in that it might actually balance each party's rural/urban split.
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Nov 2, 2015 15:44
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Chicken posted:How do you design an MMP system where this isn't true? The rural areas still have all the local representatives, so they're hardly underserved. Also, urban areas probably should be more heavily represented, because that's where nearly all Canadians live.
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Nov 2, 2015 16:24
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Chicken posted:How do you design an MMP system where this isn't true? I'm not really concerned about the regional balance of extra MPs - those MPs will be elected in places where the most votes were wasted, so where there was a greater variety in votes. The important thing is that the seat-based MPs remain and ensure local representation and constituent services.
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Nov 2, 2015 16:25
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Reason #768 I'm glad I don't live in Manitoba:Manitoba PC Leader Brian Pallister posted:I hate Halloween. I always have. I don't like the deceit of it. I don't like the holiday and I never will. I don't like trick or treat. I think it's–I don't think it's good for the integrity of the kids.
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Nov 2, 2015 16:26
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Falloutboy posted:http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/whats-an-unemployed-politician-to-do/ MacLeans has A+ trolling game sometimes.
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Nov 2, 2015 16:36
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DynamicSloth posted:Reason #768 I'm glad I don't live in Manitoba: And he's probably going to be premier in about a year.
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Nov 2, 2015 16:46
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DynamicSloth posted:Reason #768 I'm glad I don't live in Manitoba: The deceit of the holiday? Integrity of the kids? What is this doughhead yammering about?
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Nov 2, 2015 16:47
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flakeloaf posted:The deceit of the holiday? Integrity of the kids? What is this doughhead yammering about? Gonna go out on a limb and guess he's Christian. A lot of them hate Halloween. Usually references to it being a pagan holiday, celebrating witchcraft, etc.
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Nov 2, 2015 17:05
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He's the one who sent out a holiday greeting to all the "infidel atheists" in 2013. Sounds like someone should be reported to the barbaric cultural practices hotline.
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Nov 2, 2015 17:05
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BGrifter posted:Gonna go out on a limb and guess he's Christian. A lot of them hate Halloween. Usually references to it being a pagan holiday, celebrating witchcraft, etc. The bigger target has become (in my experience) alcohol consumption and sex, wagging fingers at the lack of moral character in "today's youth", etc.
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Nov 2, 2015 17:15
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"Kids today" is becoming a pretty hot topic on my Facebook which is predominantly Manitoba middle class. It's so bizarre, none of these people are seeing that they are literally becoming the old people they've always hated. Biggest issue they see after that recent Police using excessive force on the black teenage girl is that they are mad that they can't use force to discipline kids anymore. It's so shortsighted, "back in my day we got beat and we liked it". I won't be surprised if the conservatives use the "Discipline kids the way you want, don't let those liberals tell you how to raise your kids" point of view. Especially since the millennial crowd is just now about to have their own kids. Just have to target how the millennials are "always right".
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Nov 2, 2015 17:30
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Coolwhoami posted:The bigger target has become (in my experience) alcohol consumption and sex, wagging fingers at the lack of moral character in "today's youth", etc. I'm a bit out of the loop on that sort of thing, my family are a lot more moderate about their beliefs. I remember all sorts of wacky newsletters from James Dobson and Focus on the Family filled with scathing articles about the evils of the first Tim Burton Batman movie, or how all Halloween candy is laced with LSD. The usual moral panic stuff.
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Nov 2, 2015 17:33
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The University of Calgary's relationship with Enbridge has come under fire due to concerns over academic freedom The article doesn't really present any damning evidence on the part of Enbridge, but it does look like the higher ups at the university were placing pressure on professors so that they wouldn't lose their sweet tar dollars. One prof was fired ostensibly for speaking out against Enbridge. Yet another reason why strong public funding for post-secondary is important.
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Nov 2, 2015 17:45
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Yeah, it was more on the University to not let Enbridge walk all over them during negotiations and letting money have priority over academic integrity. Contracts like those can exist (see the mining sector and University of Toronto) but there has to be willingness to stand your ground.
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Nov 2, 2015 19:09
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DynamicSloth posted:Reason #768 I'm glad I don't live in Manitoba: Pallister probably hates Halloween because he never wears a costume but he always gets dozens of compliments about his Lurch outfit every October 31. I AM GOING TO SUE THE NDP:  BGrifter posted:Gonna go out on a limb and guess he's Christian. A lot of them hate Halloween. Usually references to it being a pagan holiday, celebrating witchcraft, etc. He referred to atheists as "infidels" in a tv spot for christmas last year. Not making this poo poo up. This is Manitoba though: if you step outside Winnipeg you hit a really weird mid-west bible belt. As recently as a couple of years ago, a pile of mennonites held a vigil outside a high school to pray the gay away because the NDP passed a law saying schools had to allow Gay-Straight Alliances. Pallister of course was opposed to this law too, citing a bunch of technical reasons ("we won't be able to boo opposing free throw shooters!") but it was pretty loving transparent what his real issues with it were, especially considering he voted against gay marriage back in the day as well (and the whole "infidel atheists!" thing). InfiniteZero fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 19:42
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Slightly Toasted posted:And he's probably going to be premier in about a year. I don't think Palister will win. It will probably be the Liberals winning out of nowhere then slowly dismantling the province.
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Nov 2, 2015 19:46
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The Duggler posted:Wouldn't people who vote care enough about voting and elections to want to change the system? It's a change from what people know and it involves using math to understand why it's actually good. I recently sat in a public meeting where an audience member grilled the presenter over the fact that "saying 400/500 is 80% seems a bit high". Good luck explaining a complicated electoral system to that vocal member of the public.
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Nov 2, 2015 20:00
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BGrifter posted:Gonna go out on a limb and guess he's Christian. A lot of them hate Halloween. Usually references to it being a pagan holiday, celebrating witchcraft, etc. My favorite is "Halloween is a Catholic plot to make people forget about the Reformation" Pretty sure this is a Dutch Reformed thing though.
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Nov 2, 2015 20:06
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InfiniteZero posted:I recently sat in a public meeting where an audience member grilled the presenter over the fact that "saying 400/500 is 80% seems a bit high". Good luck explaining a complicated electoral system to that vocal member of the public. Did you subsequently beat the aforementioned moron to death with their own limbs for the benefit of humanity? Because you probably ought to have done.
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Nov 2, 2015 20:09
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Well that happened in one timeline, but it didn't happen in this one because Notley went back in time to destroy the entire energy sector.
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Nov 2, 2015 20:31
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Nevermind, I found it
vainman fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 20:38
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a primate posted:The University of Calgary's relationship with Enbridge has come under fire due to concerns over academic freedom Kwantlen  "University" tried to shut down a student protest against LNG pipes and fracking too
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Nov 2, 2015 20:48
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Good news! Éric Grenier has just managed to successfully project the results of the federal election. 
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Nov 2, 2015 22:16
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Pinterest Mom posted:Good news! Éric Grenier has just managed to successfully project the results of the federal election. At least he got the Greens right.
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Nov 2, 2015 22:33
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Pinterest Mom posted:Good news! Éric Grenier has just managed to successfully project the results of the federal election. haha that retard, that was exactly what he said last time. Hey bud, you don't know how to predict seats, stop getting interviewed by CBC about it plz.
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Nov 2, 2015 22:52
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Count Roland posted:haha that retard, that was exactly what he said last time. http://www.threehundredeight.com/2011/05/threehundredeights-track-record.html http://www.threehundredeight.com/2011/05/projection-vs-results.html It's kind of absurd how wilfully he blames factors that were not predicted by the model (quick changes in popularity, increased voter turnout) for why his model wasn't accurate, or alternatively the inaccuracy of polling data. Dude, if you're going to do this and put yourself as an expert, you have to make extremely clear what your model cannot account for ahead of time, not as a post-hoc explanation for your failures. Does he seriously believe that his model will somehow, someday, be usefully accurate, given his readiness to blame poo poo his model either wasn't responsive to or couldn't predict? Ughhh
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Nov 2, 2015 23:19
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I don't know, it seems to work well enough for economists.
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Nov 2, 2015 23:25
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Economists like Karl Marx
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Nov 3, 2015 00:09
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DariusLikewise posted:I don't think Palister will win. It will probably be the Liberals winning out of nowhere then slowly dismantling the province. The Liberals have zero chance of winning; they'll pick up a few left-leaning Winnipeg seats from people angry at the NDP but that's it. Pallister is going to win a majority and gently caress this province up, can't wait!
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Nov 3, 2015 00:25
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lol 70% of West Van homes went to mainland China buyers in a 6 month period
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Nov 3, 2015 00:26
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Did anyone unironically not believe this was happening or something
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Nov 3, 2015 00:35
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ColdBlooded posted:The Liberals have zero chance of winning; they'll pick up a few left-leaning Winnipeg seats from people angry at the NDP but that's it. I hate it but this is 100% truth
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Nov 3, 2015 00:39
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CLAM DOWN posted:Did anyone unironically not believe this was happening or something Iirc posters in this very thread claimed it was simply racism and that the media had exaggerated the effect of foreign buyers on the housing market, but it was a while ago
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Nov 3, 2015 00:40
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