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chiasaur11 posted:Well, elite grunts. The Zeon pilot has a Gelgoog, and the Feddie pilot is in a space command GM. He was flying with Amuro. Had to be Kai. That's even the sort of silly stunt he'd pull.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:07
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Char really doesn't deserve his reputation. His last big victory was in the Battle of Loum back in the One Year War and that was before the Feddies even had mobile suits. Past that his only real achievements are just not dying to Amuro and Haman (despite getting shot down by both of them).
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Nov 1, 2015 03:10
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Darth Walrus posted:He was flying with Amuro. Had to be Kai. That's even the sort of silly stunt he'd pull. It really is his kind of move, but the number doesn't match. Kai flew Guncannon 108. The one in 081's opening was marked 203. Apparently Guncannon pilots are just naturally prone to battlefield jackassery.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:47
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WrightOfWay posted:Char really doesn't deserve his reputation. His last big victory was in the Battle of Loum back in the One Year War and that was before the Feddies even had mobile suits. Past that his only real achievements are just not dying to Amuro and Haman (despite getting shot down by both of them). The simple fact that he managed to fight Amuro so many times while managing to not die says a fair bit about how good he is, given the relative track record of, you know, every other person in the OYW who ran up against the RX-78. Similarly his fight with Haman is impressive because the Hyaku Shiki was an outdated piece of poo poo at the very outset of Zeta, nevermind matched up against a bleeding edge Newtype mobile suit.
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Nov 1, 2015 03:58
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That seems a little unduly harsh on the Hyaku Shiki. It wasn't even around at the start of the series and was built during testing for the Zeta so can't be that far off the curve. It's obviously below the Zeta in terms of performance, but I doubt it's by a huge amount and it has a decent selection of weaponry and stuff too. It seems like it's main detraction compared to the Zeta is an inability to transform and the straight line speed that allows. Those things are nice, but not exactly essential.
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Nov 1, 2015 04:10
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Kanos posted:The simple fact that he managed to fight Amuro so many times while managing to not die says a fair bit about how good he is, given the relative track record of, you know, every other person in the OYW who ran up against the RX-78. Similarly his fight with Haman is impressive because the Hyaku Shiki was an outdated piece of poo poo at the very outset of Zeta, nevermind matched up against a bleeding edge Newtype mobile suit. Char might not be all he's cracked up to be in terms of sheer piloting skill compared to a more holistic view of his combat abilities (read: being an stone cold pragmatic mofo), but the fact that he survived so long in the Hyaku Shiki means he absolutely deserves to be considered one of the top aces of his time.
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Nov 1, 2015 04:12
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tsob posted:That seems a little unduly harsh on the Hyaku Shiki. It wasn't even around at the start of the series and was built during testing for the Zeta so can't be that far off the curve. It's obviously below the Zeta in terms of performance, but I doubt it's by a huge amount and it has a decent selection of weaponry and stuff too. It seems like it's main detraction compared to the Zeta is an inability to transform and the straight line speed that allows. Those things are nice, but not exactly essential. Yeah, it's basically the Mk.II with extra perks, which essentially makes it the AEUG's second-best suit (unless you count the Dijeh, and we see that thing so little it's hard to tell what its performance is like).
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Nov 1, 2015 04:14
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One of Char's weaknesses, at least to me, is that his Newtype abilities are subpar at best. I seem to recall it being explained that Lalah was so amazing that her presence awakened both Amuro and Char but Char seemingly had very little to "awaken." His powers have nothing on Amuro, let alone the super Newtypes like Kamille or the ZZ guy.
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Nov 1, 2015 04:17
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Darth Walrus posted:Yeah, it's basically the Mk.II with extra perks, which essentially makes it the AEUG's second-best suit (unless you count the Dijeh, and we see that thing so little it's hard to tell what its performance is like). The Dijeh is actually kind of crappy. It's a Rick Dias successor with mild upgrades. It actually is armed with borrowed weapons because it wasn't designed with them in mind. The Dijeh SE-R however is supposed to be significantly higher spec.
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Nov 1, 2015 04:19
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chiasaur11 posted:Well, elite grunts. The Zeon pilot has a Gelgoog, and the Feddie pilot is in a space command GM. Perhaps in the Feddie's case, but there is an argument to be had that the Gelgoog pilot was just one of the school students thrust into defense of the homeland, especially when the survivors retreat back to A Baoa Qu and you see his buddies are just teenagers.
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Nov 1, 2015 04:21
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tsob posted:That seems a little unduly harsh on the Hyaku Shiki. It wasn't even around at the start of the series and was built during testing for the Zeta so can't be that far off the curve. It's obviously below the Zeta in terms of performance, but I doubt it's by a huge amount and it has a decent selection of weaponry and stuff too. It seems like it's main detraction compared to the Zeta is an inability to transform and the straight line speed that allows. Those things are nice, but not exactly essential. The Hyaku Shiki is like the Methuss in that both are both simply testbed units designed to test specific mobile suit design quirks to be incorporated into later mobile suits. In the case of the Methuss it was transformation mechanisms, and in the case of the Hyaku Shiki it was the wing binders; the Hyaku Shiki was meant to have a full transformation system too, but the frame literally wasn't able to handle the stress without breaking apart so they scrapped that idea because they didn't have time to fix it because they were scrambling to get something, anything into the field. They gave it a drat coat of anti-beam paint for armor. It's basically a slightly uptweaked Gundam mk2, but given that the Hyaku Shiki arrives around the point of the series where the mk2 is becoming so outdated that they need the G Defensor to even keep it relevant, being a slightly better mk2 isn't strong advertising. Hell, the mk2 wasn't even particularly impressive at the start of Zeta. The mk2 itself is a testbed unit for the movable frame rather than a high performance superweapon like the original RX-78, and every Titans grunt from basically the moment Scirocco arrived was equal or superior to it.
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Nov 1, 2015 05:41
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You keep being down on Anti-Beam Coating, but isn't it supposed to be straight up more effective than conventional armor? Nearly every mech since has had at least it's sheild coated in ABC, and the crossbone's only defenses were capes coated with the stuff.
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Nov 1, 2015 05:47
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NikkolasKing posted:One of Char's weaknesses, at least to me, is that his Newtype abilities are subpar at best. I seem to recall it being explained that Lalah was so amazing that her presence awakened both Amuro and Char but Char seemingly had very little to "awaken." His powers have nothing on Amuro, let alone the super Newtypes like Kamille or the ZZ guy. Yeah, i always saw it as Char being an incredibly good pilot(or fighter all around considering his fistfights and his fencing skills). But Amuro starts out with the Gundam against his Zaku 2, then as Char gets better suits Amuro gets more experience and stronger newtype abilities. This all peaks at the end of the OYW where Amuro faces Char in a MS that is superior to his, on Char's home turf. They end up at a draw when Amuro is at a disadvantage. Then in Zeta, Both Amuro and Char kick rear end in grunt suits, easily equalling Kamille in the MK2, and keeping up with the Zeta. This really just shows how badass both of them are, and that they're pretty much equals at this point in time. Then years go by before CCA. Char has focused on being a politician, Amuro has kept fighting. At this point they're equally experience pilots, almost the same age, have the same tech in their suits, but Amuro is still a stronger newtype and has more fresh experience piloting.
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Nov 1, 2015 05:51
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Droyer posted:You keep being down on Anti-Beam Coating, but isn't it supposed to be straight up more effective than conventional armor? Nearly every mech since has had at least it's sheild coated in ABC, and the crossbone's only defenses were capes coated with the stuff. Beam coating shields and ABC Mantles work because they're applied to parts that are totally disposable. The anti-beam paint on the Hyaku Shiki is basically non-functional, as evidenced by how the Qubeley's funnels dissect it effortlessly. Kanos fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Nov 1, 2015 |
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Nov 1, 2015 05:56
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The anti-beam coating on Hyaku Shiki is errata enough that you can pretty reasonably pretend it doesn't have it. Even SRW does this sometimes, including one situation where the anti-beam coating is an unlockable upgrade for it instead. It technically exists but it is so worthless it's probably just there as a retroactive explanation for why they have a gold blingsuit.
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Nov 1, 2015 07:22
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ImpAtom posted:The anti-beam coating on Hyaku Shiki is errata enough that you can pretty reasonably pretend it doesn't have it. Even SRW does this sometimes, including one situation where the anti-beam coating is an unlockable upgrade for it instead. It technically exists but it is so worthless it's probably just there as a retroactive explanation for why they have a gold blingsuit. Speaking of retroactive explanations, no guide has ever tried to explain why the Gouf has a beam sword and the Gelgoog had physical instead of beam blades on its sword in 0079, have they?
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Nov 1, 2015 07:27
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closeted republican posted:Speaking of retroactive explanations, no guide has ever tried to explain why the Gouf has a beam sword and the Gelgoog had physical instead of beam blades on its sword in 0079, have they? They have actually. The Gouf doesn't have a beam sword, it has a heat blade that just happens to be animated like a beam sword. (Norris' Gouf doesn't have the energy to heat it up in the infamous battle scene IIRC) Despite the fact it's pretty clearly animated like a beam saber it's just supposed to be a heat blade the entire time. The Gelgoog thing is justified as Char's Gelgoog being an early production type and having a prototype weapon. Later Gelgoogs in the show have the more accurate beam weapons. (That said, I think the movie version fixed both mistakes so you can assume it was just a soft retcon.)
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Nov 1, 2015 07:34
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Origin Doms end up with beam sabres instead of heat rods, too.
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Nov 1, 2015 10:38
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Kanos posted:The Hyaku Shiki is like the Methuss in that both are both simply testbed units designed to test specific mobile suit design quirks to be incorporated into later mobile suits. In the case of the Methuss it was transformation mechanisms, and in the case of the Hyaku Shiki it was the wing binders; I'm pretty sure that's not true. The Hyaku Shiki was meant to be a new Gundam but wasn't able to handle transformation and because AEUG needed units they had to push it out in to the field as was instead of re-engineering the design to be able to handle transformation since that could/would take too long. They gave it the anti-beam coating, possibly to test that but I've never seen anything to suggest it's primary purpose was testing the wing binders. The explanation in universe apparently reflects the real explanation that Tomino felt Nagano's design wasn't streamlined enough to be the lead unit but did like it, so they made it the second unit for the show. It even has an in-universe designer named Dr. Nagano to reflect that according to the fluff. It's not an upgtweaked Mk II, it's a downtweaked Zeta. It even looks a lot closer to the Zeta than the Mk II, if you ignore the backpack on the Zeta. The only thing it apparently has from the Mk II is the movable frame and is otherwise more closely related to the Zeta in terms of armor and design. They even get the Hyaku Shiki in show at the same time that the flying armor is delivered. When the MkII is being given an upgrade to help keep up with the curve in episode 10, the crew receives the Hyaku Shiki while it's another 10 episodes till they received the Zeta, which would put it about the half way point between the MkII and the Zeta. The fact that it was supposed to be the lead Gundam, both in and out of universe until a structural problem developed and they made a new version to fix that says that to me that it was far from some piece of poo poo immediately outdated.
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Nov 1, 2015 14:16
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As far as i ever saw or knew, the Shiki was a baller suit, but like the Methus, had jack for armor. It makes up for that by being a fast mobile suit. This works when you have an Ace pilot, but as seen with the Methuss it doesn't work out that well with non-ace pilots. Being gold is rad, and the beam coating seemed kind of irrelevant compared to the power output and the pilot.
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Nov 1, 2015 15:17
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Nasgate posted:Yeah, i always saw it as Char being an incredibly good pilot(or fighter all around considering his fistfights and his fencing skills). But Amuro starts out with the Gundam against his Zaku 2, then as Char gets better suits Amuro gets more experience and stronger newtype abilities. This all peaks at the end of the OYW where Amuro faces Char in a MS that is superior to his, on Char's home turf. They end up at a draw when Amuro is at a disadvantage. This is entirely it, I believe word of Tomino (for what it's worth) is Char is the best pilot of the UC, but Amuro is a much stronger Newtype and that tips him over the edge in terms of actual combat effectiveness. To me the Hyaku Shiki has always been a cool looking thing that is a failed prototype that gets by mostly on being piloted by Char. And uh, eventually Beecha I guess, but the ZZ crew are incredible.
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Nov 1, 2015 19:06
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Nasgate posted:As far as i ever saw or knew, the Shiki was a baller suit, but like the Methus, had jack for armor. It makes up for that by being a fast mobile suit. This works when you have an Ace pilot, but as seen with the Methuss it doesn't work out that well with non-ace pilots. Being gold is rad, and the beam coating seemed kind of irrelevant compared to the power output and the pilot. Armor is already starting to become kind of pointless in Zeta, where evasion is the order of the day due to the proliferation of beam weapons. The problem with the Hyaku-Shiki isn't that it lacks armor, since it has the same type of armor as the Rick Dias and Zeta Gundam (Gundarium y armor), and is never stated to have notably thinner armor - it's that it lacks a shield. Which doesn't really seem to inconvenience it all that much frankly. The gold paint seems to have been a preliminary step to tackling the fact that beams kind of make armor redundant given that they tear through almost any thickness with little difference, but not a very effective step in the end.
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Nov 1, 2015 19:16
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Just a tangent but has any Gundam ever been 'inconvenienced' by a lack of shield? It always seems that shields in Gundam are one of those 'nice to have but never really need it' thing. I guess my question is actually 'has a shield ever saved someone's rear end in Gundam beyond just being helpful to keep blows away' because I'm drawing a blank.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:43
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Just a tangent but has any Gundam ever been 'inconvenienced' by a lack of shield? It always seems that shields in Gundam are one of those 'nice to have but never really need it' thing. I guess my question is actually 'has a shield ever saved someone's rear end in Gundam beyond just being helpful to keep blows away' because I'm drawing a blank. In the 0079 TV series, Amuro throws it as a weapon and uses it to jam a door that's closing.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:48
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Just a tangent but has any Gundam ever been 'inconvenienced' by a lack of shield? It always seems that shields in Gundam are one of those 'nice to have but never really need it' thing. I guess my question is actually 'has a shield ever saved someone's rear end in Gundam beyond just being helpful to keep blows away' because I'm drawing a blank. Yes, very frequently actually. There are a ton of "if not for my shield" moments in the original Gundam alone. Since shields are something that can be destroyed and replaced they tend to use them as a way to have the Gundam or similar unit take damage without being actually seriously damaged.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:49
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Tatum Girlparts posted:I guess my question is actually 'has a shield ever saved someone's rear end in Gundam beyond just being helpful to keep blows away' because I'm drawing a blank. Literally every time a late-UC suit takes a beam hit to its shield. Regular armour is almost completely useless against beam weaponry (with the exception of some large and superbly-engineered machines like the The O), which is why movable-frame technology (and thus transforming suits) exist in the first place. Properly-coated metal shields - and later, beam shields - are very important to UC suit combat.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:51
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Yea I'm just now realizing I'm lumping in blocking beams and blocking like, axes and poo poo as the same 'well yea it's nice to not get hit but...' thing when they're entirely different things. I'm dumb.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:57
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Darth Walrus posted:Literally every time a late-UC suit takes a beam hit to its shield. Regular armour is almost completely useless against beam weaponry (with the exception of some large and superbly-engineered machines like the The O), which is why movable-frame technology (and thus transforming suits) exist in the first place. Properly-coated metal shields - and later, beam shields - are very important to UC suit combat. You also have the occasional unit with an I-Field shield as an intermediate step between beam coating shields and full on beam shields, like the Rozen Zulu, the Unicorn, and the Banshee.
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Nov 2, 2015 02:27
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technically *pushes glasses up nose* i would say the i-field is a more advanced defensive measure than beam shields
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Nov 2, 2015 06:08
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muike posted:technically *pushes glasses up nose* i would say the i-field is a more advanced defensive measure than beam shields It actually is, but beam shields are both a lot easier for mobile suits to use and a lot more useful against 99% of opponents because they work against both beams and physical attacks, as well as you being able to cut a motherfucker in half with a beam shield because a beam shield is literally just a shield-shaped beam saber. The only beams that an I-Field can handle that a beam shield can't are super powerful stuff like VSBRs and mega particle cannons and such.  Actually since beam shields are almost exactly just shield-shaped beam saber generators I'm pretty confused why nobody thought of the idea until 50 years after mobile suits first hit the field, especially given the insanely fast pace of MS tech development.
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Nov 2, 2015 06:26
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Kanos posted:Actually since beam shields are almost exactly just shield-shaped beam saber generators I'm pretty confused why nobody thought of the idea until 50 years after mobile suits first hit the field, especially given the insanely fast pace of MS tech development. It wasn't that nobody thought of it (there's at least one MSV with proto-beam shields) but that beam weapons ate through energy like woah, even beam sabers, and so it wasn't actually more effective than a metal shield until they had energy reactors that could keep it up.;
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Nov 2, 2015 06:35
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tsob posted:Armor is already starting to become kind of pointless in Zeta, where evasion is the order of the day due to the proliferation of beam weapons. The problem with the Hyaku-Shiki isn't that it lacks armor, since it has the same type of armor as the Rick Dias and Zeta Gundam (Gundarium y armor), and is never stated to have notably thinner armor - it's that it lacks a shield. Which doesn't really seem to inconvenience it all that much frankly. The gold paint seems to have been a preliminary step to tackling the fact that beams kind of make armor redundant given that they tear through almost any thickness with little difference, but not a very effective step in the end. Eh, I wouldn't say armor is going by the wayside in Zeta. I'd say it takes until post Hathaway's Flash for armor to really go by the wayside. Around that point of mid-late UC, suits needed to be so large to incorporate all the fancy new tech that hadn't been miniaturized yet, so they just turned them into gigantic hulking armored behemoths like the Xi and Penelope, which needed their Minovsky Drives to maintain respectable mobility. Armor certainly wasn't hugely effective, but it still had its place until VSBRs came around and suddenly everything got real tiny real fast.
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Nov 2, 2015 07:09
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  How far we've come since the days of HE IS A CHAR. 
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Nov 2, 2015 21:41
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Gundam Wiki, clicking on the link for Fraw Bow's voice actress links to the Bill Cosby sexual assault allegations. That's kind of sad.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:40
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Watching Gundam Origin episodes back-to-back, has the sharpnel ammunition been established in Gundam lore before? Because gently caress that looked brutal, clearly planned to maximize human casualties. The series has made me realize I should watch some of the originals, I'm a loving weirdo who went from watching NGE as my first anime to god drat Gundam SEED because it was new back then, and proceeded only watching every new Gundam show from then onwards when they were released apart from AGE because that seemed trash and build fighters season 2 because that just...seemed boring. I think I've watched 08th MS Team but my memory is incredibly fuzzy. I should just rewatch it because it'd essentially feel like I'm watching it for the first time. Do any of the originals capture Origin's feel? It really feels weird not understanding anything about the history of the universe despite watching so many series. Some of the scenes like Laplace/establishment of the Federation in Unicorn seem to indicate that it's "prior" knowledge to fans but looking at the wiki it's the first time ever it's mentioend. Gundam history is complicated, man.  edit: Yeah I have a really vague understanding of the different timelines (UC etc) and that the new shows don't often really relate to each other. v Dessel fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 02:13
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If you started around SEED and watched everything new that came out since SEED, you've watched a bunch of shows that are self-contained universes unrelated to the Universal Century timeline that Unicorn and the Origin fall into.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:21
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8th MS Team actually did have a scene where Zeon uses anti personnel shrapnel bombs. A downed Zaku pilot fires an airburst shrapnel shell and massacres a horde of angry villagers.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:40
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The Unicorn's bazooka fires beam shrapnel right? i mean it's not literally shrapnel but it has the same effect.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:54
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Droyer posted:The Unicorn's bazooka fires beam shrapnel right? i mean it's not literally shrapnel but it has the same effect. I'm pretty sure it just fires normal fragmentation shells. I'm almost positive it's not a beam bazooka.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:04
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKXSn1ZxrLE Looks like beams to me. I doubt they'd color normal ammo that bluish green color
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Nov 3, 2015 04:08
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