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Pash posted:Who do you want to play as? I know there are already plenty of people that don't really want their scourge... PHR unless the designs are unexpectedly not my thing. Maybe Shaltari as a second faction. Basically Grey and I kinda want to stick with our Dropzone factions so he will be covering UCM and Scourge.
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Nov 1, 2015 19:00
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Plenty of people has asked about fleet swaps and while they said they logistically can't swap out fleets in the starter set, they've heard people's wants and are looking at other options. I'm sure there'll be a method by the time the PHR renders are out in a week or so.
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Nov 1, 2015 21:59
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I want to pledge but cannot bring myself to do it until I can get just UCM and PHR.
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Nov 1, 2015 22:29
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You can. Get the Lt level. Buy bolt ons.
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Nov 1, 2015 23:06
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Serotonin posted:You can. Get the Lt level. Buy bolt ons. Yeah but then I don't get the high rank bonus
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Nov 2, 2015 00:02
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The high rank bonus is presently only sixteen frigates if the 350k goal is reached, which it certainly will. It's nice, but I wouldn't call it a night and day sort of difference.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:27
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I think the kickstarter page as it is right now is really suffering from the stretch goals being not clear at a glance.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:35
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Yeah, they suck. The Hawk people mentioned that they'd be coming up with a nicer-looking one, that ought to help.
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Nov 2, 2015 00:36
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A decent graphic really should have been in place at the start, but then they really seem to have underestimated the demand for this. They didn't even expect to get to PHR until week three of the campaign and don't have finalized renders to show off. Not that a text list is particularly difficult to read, people just like graphics. I'm going to bolt on a PHR starter or two, but I'm waiting on those renders. I think they said it'd be another week or two.
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Nov 2, 2015 01:53
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Latest update has shown the bases, and they come with stickers with ship names on. That clears that issue that some whiners were moaning about
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Nov 2, 2015 22:21
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Serotonin posted:Latest update has shown the bases, and they come with stickers with ship names on. That clears that issue that some whiners were moaning about They come with blank and pre-printed naming stickers apparently. Hawk/Chambers clearly remember the BFG nostalgia powering interest in this game!  I do like the look of these bases. The only bit that bothers me is the peg and hole damage tracker, I worry that the pegs will get lost and Hawk likely agree as the graphic says the bases come with a spare! The rotary dials on the other hand look like a nice solution to covering the table in a bazillion counters to track height and spikes on every ship. I see we are in spitting distance of £240,000 and the nocturnal map pack. Which also means Hawk need to get some more interim stretch goals up soonish as we march onwards towards a quarter million!
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Nov 2, 2015 23:31
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Just having a look at the comments, few interesting bits in there. I hadn't appreciated this but it looks like the KS exclusive Battlecruisers are effectively the famous commanders from Dropzone/proxy sculpts for classes coming later. Suddenly I'm more interested in them!quote:Dear all, just to make this completely clear in in case of confusion, we will 100% not be releasing the UCMF Atlantis as a bolt on. This model will only ever be available to backers at Captain and Admiral level. While we are doing Shaltari, Scourge and PHR battlecruisers latter in the campaign, and there may be something else for the UCM at that point (information pending), the Atlantis will not be available as a bolt on at any point, or for retail at any point. Thanks as ever, - The Hawk Team quote:Dear Jason, you are correct - The Atlantis, and all Kickstarter exclusive Battlecruisers are special ships designed for fun games and scenarios. Their rules will be released online, and they are designed to be used as proxy models for standard ships of the same class, to be released later. The exclusivity is designed to come from the cool model, and not rules - having and of the exclusives will only mean you have an unbalanced advantage in fun games, similar to having one of the special commanders from Dropzone Commander. As ever with our games, we want to make them about balance rather than 'buying a win'. - The Hawk Team The sticker thing is mentioned again. People are really hung up on the bases, sounds like some people would actually prefer standard flight stands and tokens everywhere. quote:Dear Björn "Brence" Bonten, the Bases come with stickers for you to assemble them, designed to be as user friendly as possible. All you have to do is put the sticker on, then pop the top wheel in place and you're ready to go! This has the added benefit that on the sticker sheet we can supply ship name stickers and blank stickers. This means that players can use named ships or create their own names and really personalise their fleet as they would like. It also helps identifying which ship is which (meaning that if players really did not want to use the base or peg damage system, they could keep track of damage elsewhere), and creates flexibility of choice for players. - The Hawk Team And a bit of a CAD update. Dave is being whipped and caffinated to bring us moar shiny renders whicvh we may see by the weekend! Also more Shaltari variations, which is nice. quote:Dear All, Dave is currently working very hard on the PHR - he's been CADding away all weekend and is on schedule to have render images later this week as discussed in earlier comments and Updates. We're not holding off on purpose - there's only so fast the poor guy can CAD, we as ever we want to make sure we get it right, even if it takes a little longer to show. Many Thanks, - The Hawk Team quote:Dear Tristan Cotterill, That is indeed the case. Similar to the other starter fleets, our Shaltari plastics are multi part and are designed to be able to be made in a number of different configurations. We will be posting more of these very soon and via social media, and we also hope to have painted images of some pre-production models for these as soon as we can, though in both cases this may not be for a few weeks. - The Hawk Team
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Nov 2, 2015 23:59
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Thanks for wading through the comments section for us. You're a brave goon. That stuff sheds a little bit of official light on things. In other news, looks like they're over £240,000 now and they seem to have updated the stretch goals a little. £250k - Kickstarter Exclusive Paper Radar Map (Bolt-on) £275k - Miniature Unlock to be announced £290k - Accessories Unlock to be announced £300k - High Rank Backers - 1 Free Shaltari Frigate Sprue (makes 4 Frigates) £310k - Miniature Unlock to be announced £325k - Miniature Unlock to be announced £350k - High Rank Backers - 1 Free PHR Frigate Sprue (makes 4 Frigates) I'm guessing those miniature unlocks are going to be the Kickstarter exclusive battlecruisers, but they still have those listed as time based rewards. Whatever the hell that means. I don't know. I guess we'll find out in a couple of days or so when they hit £275,000 Edit: For people too lazy to go and check out the Kickstart for information about the bases:   I'm really liking this idea and I'm all for reducing and streamlining bookkeeping. If it wasn't for these bases the game would be a giant mess of tokens to keep track of orbital level, energy spikes, and damage. No thanks. This'll let players tell at a glance what's going on with their ships. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 01:41
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Yeah, i am really liking the bases. Damage, sight arcs, altitude, and spikes all at a glance.
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Nov 3, 2015 01:52
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Being a longtime player of Spartan games Firestorm Armada which has the dual problems of masses of tokens following every ship and being shackled to legacy bases so unable to innovate there, the more details that can be crammed onto the base, the better. Star Wars Armada does this as well, with the four shield facings being dials on the bases themselves; much easier to keep track of. I wonder if they're going to follow FFGs lead on measurement as well; the beasts of War vids seem to have measurements being from flight peg to flight peg but the ships themselves massively overhang their bases. In X Wang/Armada, the base is everything and if a ship model interferers with measurement, it;s removed or positioned higher/lower with the multi-part flight pegs. The hawk widgets they use would allow for that easily enough.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:44
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Joe_Richter posted:I wonder if they're going to follow FFGs lead on measurement as well; the beasts of War vids seem to have measurements being from flight peg to flight peg but the ships themselves massively overhang their bases. In X Wang/Armada, the base is everything and if a ship model interferers with measurement, it;s removed or positioned higher/lower with the multi-part flight pegs. The hawk widgets they use would allow for that easily enough. Dropzone commander uses center-to-center measurement for most things IIRC. I imagine that is the easiest way to go.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:55
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Thats how it was done in BFG, so there is no reason Andy isn't going to use the same method with DFC.
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Nov 3, 2015 06:05
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The maps are looking nice, but I wish they had one included as a stretch goal rather than a bolt on. EDIT: In general, the stretch goals are sort of underwhelming. Gravitas Shortfall fucked around with this message at 10:29 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 10:21
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:EDIT: In general, the stretch goals are sort of underwhelming. I agree with this, but I'm still quite happy with 2 starter sets and the exclusive stuff for the price of the Captain level. I'm probably going to get as many of the maps as I can tack on and my buddy that plays PHR will probably want a couple sets of those.
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Nov 3, 2015 10:34
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The goals say the maps are made of paper and that has made me wary. While the idea is excellent, I'm not sure how long a paper sheet would last on the average tabletop.
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Nov 3, 2015 11:07
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Between Deep Cut Studio, Gamemat.eu and maybe Frontline and a few other small and new makers, there should eventually be plenty of more durable vinyl, cloth and mousepad alternatives to replace the paper.
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Nov 3, 2015 11:32
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krushgroove posted:I agree with this, but I'm still quite happy with 2 starter sets and the exclusive stuff for the price of the Captain level. I'm probably going to get as many of the maps as I can tack on and my buddy that plays PHR will probably want a couple sets of those. Yeah the base set is fine, it's just weird to be backing a kickstarter where I don't give a gently caress about any of the stretch goals. Normally I'm following the pages and getting excited about potential stuff coming down the pipeline. With this it's just ... eh.
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Nov 3, 2015 12:35
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Yeah the base set is fine, it's just weird to be backing a kickstarter where I don't give a gently caress about any of the stretch goals. Normally I'm following the pages and getting excited about potential stuff coming down the pipeline. With this it's just ... eh. I think the state of Kickstarter campaigns has gotten to the point where people complain about lackluster (to them) stretch goals and all the crazy poo poo that gets added. Gamers especially have been spoiled by campaigns like the Bones stuff which is precisely mapped out and the biggest campaigns break sales records and have fully-fledge pledge managers and all that. So all these expectations are thrust onto the Hawk guys, with people reading between the lines of their updates and saying they weren't prepared or ready for the amount of interest and cash being thrown at them. But I must be an outlier, because with all the campaigns I follow I don't really care how much it raises, as long as it's funded and I get the original stuff I pledged for. I see folks going really in-depth with campaign tracker sites and apps and I just don't really follow that sort of thing, I just read the updates that get sent out and wait for my stuff to get to me.
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Nov 3, 2015 13:04
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I'm really not sure what a time-based reward is. The KS is running for a fixed time. Maybe it was a legacy "If we're funded by this date" reward? Awkward.
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Nov 3, 2015 14:24
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I'm not sure about the paper mats yet for durability but as £15 gets you three in a pack I'm not too worried. Dropzone has card tiles in the buildings sets and those are nice quality so fingers crossed. I agree with the kickstarter thing. People are spoiled by those ridiculous kickstarter giveaways and apparently incapable of grasping that Hawk are intentionally running a restrained campaign because they want to deliver a specific product on time.
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Nov 3, 2015 14:33
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It's also easy for lots of stretch goal freebies to runaway on cost outstripping the profitability. For instance with the Scythe KS it was made clear from the beginning that the economy of scale gains were fairly marginal so there wasn't going to be any huge extras, and what there was had been planned from the beginning based on a reasonable expectation of support.
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Nov 3, 2015 14:53
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Ugleb posted:I agree with the kickstarter thing. People are spoiled by those ridiculous kickstarter giveaways and apparently incapable of grasping that Hawk are intentionally running a restrained campaign because they want to deliver a specific product on time. I also am getting tired of the bitching and moaning. Why can't people figure out that this is not Bones. This is an attempt to acquire capital for a specific purpose: plastic molds for starter boxes. This is not a push to put out a single box game that comes with a bunch of 'free' stuff. In the case of Bones or Zombicide, the goal was to maximize cashflows for the company. Due to the low variable cost per model, this worked great. The goal of this kickstarter is to buy molds. Hawk wants this game to be sold at brick and mortar stores, so they can't give the entire game away in the Kickstarter! You all probably know this, but I just wanted to see if you guys have the same viewpoint.
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Nov 3, 2015 14:57
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TTerrible posted:I'm really not sure what a time-based reward is. The KS is running for a fixed time. Maybe it was a legacy "If we're funded by this date" reward? Awkward. My guess is the renders of the models are not done, but should be by that date, so rather than have everyone constantly asking when the other factions Battlecruisers would get shown they can just point to that date.
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Nov 3, 2015 15:06
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dexefiend posted:Why can't people figure out that this is not Bones. This is an attempt to acquire capital for a specific purpose: plastic molds for starter boxes. Personally I'm not comparing it to Bones, I'd just like a little variation in the rewards. But then again I'm not a "high rank backer" so it's probably my fault for being poor 
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Nov 3, 2015 15:14
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:Personally I'm not comparing it to Bones, I'd just like a little variation in the rewards. But then again I'm not a "high rank backer" so it's probably my fault for being poor I was not pointing fingers at anyone in this thread. My comments were in regards to the kickstarter comments i was reading. I agree with your point of view. There are lots of low cost KS exclusives they could offer that would not cross their self imposed restrictions.
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Nov 3, 2015 15:37
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dexefiend posted:The goal of this kickstarter is to buy molds. Hawk wants this game to be sold at brick and mortar stores, so they can't give the entire game away in the Kickstarter! Of course. They've made their intentions quite clear before the Kickstarter and during. Plastic moulds are bloody expensive as far as I'm aware, so they're doing the right thing by themselves and backers. Anyone moaning they're not getting enough bonus random crap to meet their perceived value are looking in the wrong place. Backing a known quantity like Hawk, I only required answering a couple of questions. Is it something I'd like to see happen? Yes. Am I getting value for money? Yes. Well, that was simple enough. I'm fortunate enough that I play Scourge and a gaming buddy plays UCM. We're both pledging at Captain and should be able to simply exchange faction items between ourselves. Even without stretch goals I was already satisfied.
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Nov 3, 2015 15:45
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I've never backed a KS, this might be my first. What's the difference between a bolt-on and a stretch goal?
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Nov 3, 2015 18:28
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Not a viking posted:I've never backed a KS, this might be my first. What's the difference between a bolt-on and a stretch goal? You have to pay for Bolt Ons. Technically they're also stretch goals, the goal being "now you can give us more money"
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Nov 3, 2015 18:30
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dexefiend posted:I also am getting tired of the bitching and moaning. Yeah I'm glad I'm not alone in this, the Kickstarter crowd has become one of the most entitled I've ever seen.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:49
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ijyt posted:Yeah I'm glad I'm not alone in this, the Kickstarter crowd has become one of the most entitled I've ever seen. Yeah, the comments are an absolute cess pool.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:51
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I don't give a gently caress either way. Kickstarter expectations are one thing, Hawk's expectations are a different thing, there's a clash, someone will have to compromise. Hawk doesn't want to offer sweet stretch goals and second-by-second KS map, they'll lose some potential money. I don't want to hear entitled gamers, I don't read KS comments*. Works great so far. * Seriously, who the gently caress reads KS comments anyway? They're like two steps above Youtube's.
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Nov 3, 2015 18:55
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Danoss posted:
Herein lies my own concern. I don't intend to play as UCM or Scourge, so the 2 player box is mostly useless to me other than the rulebook and accessories. This means that the captain pledge is a really bad proposition as it is full of models I don't want. That means I have to go with the lieutenant pledge and bolt on my PHR/Shaltari boxes. This is more expensive to buy the same amount of models as you get in a pair of 2 player boxes. As a kick in the nuts, despite paying more you don't qualify for the higher level pledge rewards which is where I think most of the value in this KS lies. I'm happy enough with the higher level pledge rewards themselves, but I'm unhappy that I can't get them unless I intend to play UCM or Scourge no matter how much money I throw at this.
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Nov 3, 2015 19:25
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There are some considerations for logistics of fulfillment. It's easier to have a fixed starter box that can be picked as one unit when the distributor dispatches the orders than having to combine the parts ala carte. Such was the reasoning Mantic cited with the Warpath kickstarter when people had asked for interchangeable starter factions. They had offered a mix and match starter in KoW but not enough people has taken advantage of it to outweigh the extra work. Mind you Warpath had tiers much more flexible for getting the battlegroups you wanted if you didn't want the starter box (or in addition to at a discount) and the exclusives available as add-ons for most all of the tiers.
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Nov 3, 2015 19:58
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Hmm. Hawk's Update #5 is out and includes an FAQ. The very first question in that FAQ is "Will I be able to swap out factions in the starter box pledges?", and the answer is no. I'm considering dropping my pledge to Lieutenant plus bolt-ons. I don't need that many UCM and Scourge cruiser sprues, and the high-rank extras so far don't seem enough for the extra outlay. I'll hold off on a final decision until the pledge manager arrives, but this is something of a kick in the teeth. EDIT: On the plus side, the same update includes a podcast interview which confirms 9 cruiser classes for the Shaltari and PHR, and goes into detail on how Shaltari teleporter gates work (short summary: those "voidgates" are relays for teleporting troops, and they just need to position the relay to be able to teleport troops over. They can also move troops already on the planet from one sector to another). The update also has a pretty space station render. If that's a bonus model, I might keep my pledge where it is. Loxbourne fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 20:25
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Loxbourne posted:Hmm. Hawk's Update #5 is out and includes an FAQ. The very first question in that FAQ is "Will I be able to swap out factions in the starter box pledges?", and the answer is no. I'll likely end up doing this and tell my friend to get his own pledge unless something changes by the end of the month. Which is a shame because I'm a sucker for limited edition models.
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Nov 3, 2015 20:45
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