I/P: post-semitism in the desert of the deal

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > I/P: post-semitism in the desert of the deal

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woke wedding drone: Jun 1, 2003; by exmarx; Fun Shoe

Absurd Alhazred posted:

I would have asked you how come you're so in with liberal Israeli social media.

I value your mining it.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 21:47

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 20:31

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

SedanChair posted:

I value your mining it.

Thank you, but I assure you that as emanresu has predicted, it's basically hard to avoid if you're an Israeli leftist or know any.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 21:48

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Crowsbeak posted:

Why is it that your government ministers seem to be dumber then the Tea party in the USA?

Because the Israeli government is a fully proportional parliamentary system, which means that any sort of wacko fringe group can get in some position of limited power, so you won't ever get a single party with a majority of the votes but you'll instead get a party with the plurality of the vote needing to get to a majority by forming coalitions, and since they can't form coalition with their political opponents they'll have to form them with the wacko fringe groups.

Repeat the process and you have the bigger parties accumulate a history of trying to appeal to wackos in order to form coalition, and in the process become wackos themselves. Then add the obsidional psychosis coming from being in a perpetual state of quasi-war. Congratulations, you have made sure all your governments will be lunatic asylum rejects.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 22:03

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

SedanChair posted:

Ask yourself what you would have done if I had posted this

He isn't a moderator, he is simply a guy who is gonna ban you if you don't agree with his opinions.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 22:08

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Crowsbeak posted:

Why is it that your government ministers seem to be dumber then the Tea party in the USA?

Jewish Home are basically a bunch of crazy unapologetic messianic halachic-law-promoting super weirdos whom everyone pretends are normal cause they represent a large and supposedly integral part of Israeli Jewish society. They're basically all pretty much Kahanists but it's considered rude to say so even though almost half of their constituency commemorated Kahane's death only a couple of weeks ago.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 22:11

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Hong XiuQuan posted:

Shlomo Ben-Ami is probably one of the most interesting, sympathetic and credible Israeli politician since Sharett. There's a great exchange between him and Finkelstein on Democracy now which probes into Taba: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-FLIBkTg8g <-- when he talks about Taba, you can really get into the nuance. He puts it down to the lack of political capital - they were on a thread already in the negotiations, then had to go fight an election. It's not so much a question of fault as a 'this is what the political situation was, it was pretty lovely and we did our best'. I prefer this so much more to 'Arafat was a demon who wanted the world'.

I will admit that a lot of the development of my understanding of the political realities behind the historical Zionist and then Israeli positions comes from Ben-Ami's book, Scars of War, Wounds of Peace. Unfortunately, his political career beyond 2000 would always have been tarnished by 13 Palestinian-Israelis being killed by police during the October Troubles under his watch as Minister of Internal Security, so he is unlikely to come back from academia.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 23:09

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

LeoMarr posted:

Well yeah when you can shoot anyone who looks at you with a slightly discontent look it's a lot easier to pick targets. But this Intifada isn't isolated to Gaza.

It seems to not particularly involve Gaza much at all. And there's absolutely no way Abbas is going to tolerate solidarity violence in support of Hamas. He's mostly acted as if this violence isn't really his problem, but the minute protesters start acting in support of Hamas, the PA security forces are going to be ordered to break out their best pairs of jackboots. There simply isn't a united Palestinian front right now.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 23:23

Zulily Zoetrope: Jun 1, 2011; Muldoon

Baloogan posted:

He isn't a moderator, he is simply a guy who is gonna ban you if you don't agree with his opinions.

Get the gently caress out of here with this bullshit. AA is being remarkably tolerant of a lot of garbage posted in this thread precisely because simply banning lovely posters from D&D causes idiots to come running in and crying bias. Every probation he's handed out in this thread has not only been for lovely posting, but for a pattern of lovely posts over a long period of time.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 23:28

Ultramega: Jul 9, 2004

I stand by all the probations AA has handed out including mine.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 23:43

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

The primary complaint about this thread is AA not probating enough people, not being trigger happy. It's pretty funny to think otherwise.

# ? Nov 2, 2015 23:47

Baloogan: Dec 5, 2004; Fun Shoe

all the good posters away have already been chased away.

anyhow keep bashing israel pip pip sorry to interupt

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Nov 3, 2015 01:06

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

edit: n/m

# ? Nov 3, 2015 02:05

Mnoba: Jun 24, 2010

you need a cooler nickname than aa aa

# ? Nov 3, 2015 02:18

Plek: Jul 30, 2009

Mnoba posted:

you need a cooler nickname than aa aa

But what else would you call someone giving so many people flak about their shitposting?

# ? Nov 3, 2015 04:11

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Jewish Home are basically a bunch of crazy unapologetic messianic halachic-law-promoting super weirdos whom everyone pretends are normal cause they represent a large and supposedly integral part of Israeli Jewish society. They're basically all pretty much Kahanists but it's considered rude to say so even though almost half of their constituency commemorated Kahane's death only a couple of weeks ago.

You know their incompetence actually gives me hope, in the sense that any government they ever headed would be a economic and international disaster. Of course being that their kahanists I have to wonder if they would try to final solution Palestinians.

Also Elle featured an article about a Palestinian American, mostly they jsut asked her about her life, but they did ask her about the current conflict. Unsurprisingly racists jumped on Elle for daring to show anyone who isn't Israeli from the ME as human.

Elle posted:

'm Longing for Palestine While Living the American Dream

My father was born in Palestine and raised in a refugee camp; I was born and raised in our national's capital. Who does that make me, exactly?
By Karmah Elmusa
8.7kShares

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Courtesy of Karmah Elmusa

After living under occupation their whole lives, and with no prospect of political resolution on the horizon, Palestinian youth have taken to the streets this month in protest. As I sit and watch the polarizing coverage�now considered to be at near-"catastrophic" levels�from afar, disparate emotions dart around inside me like pinballs, striking chords and hitting nerves. There's the sadness, of course�the sadness that I always feel when I think about Palestine�that is now pulled to the surface and sharper than usual. Sadness that so many of today's young people are lost to a struggle that is decades old. Sadness that it feels like it may continue for decades more.

Next come the waves of frustration. As a Palestinian-American, it frustrates me how irreconcilable my two halves often seem. America is more home to me than any place I've ever known: I was born here, my mother was born here, and most of my family and friends live here. In our glory days, my high school girlfriends and I blasted the Dixie Chicks as we swerved into the Cleveland Park McDonald's parking lot for Big Macs and McFlurries.
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The light skin and eyes I inherited from my maternal French-English genes, and from my Sittu Mariam (grandmother) on my father's side, have made that part easy for me. I can seamlessly blend into a culturally white world, never being subjected to that split-second suspicion and judgment that so many Arab-Americans deal with daily. My complexion has afforded me a very privileged life here.

"My complexion has afforded me a very privileged life here."

And yet, this is the country where my Palestinian cousins with darker skin are given dirty looks on planes, and where presidential candidates casually suggest that Muslims shouldn't be president. This is the country that gives $3.1 billion to Israel in military aid each year. This is the country that looked the other way when Israel sentenced my Palestinian cousin to nine years in prison for his role in a protest after the murder of 16-year-old Mohammed Abu Khdeir. They came to his house in the middle of the night and took him away based on an anonymous tip. At age 22, he will spend the rest of his youth in a cell.

The author and her father
Courtesy of Karmah Elmusa

My father, as you may have gathered, was not born here. He was born in 1947, six miles from what is now the Israeli city of Jaffa, in what was then the small Palestinian village of Abbasiya. For generations, my family lived simply on that land and cared for it deeply; they were farmers, growing citrus and olives in the Mediterranean sun.

In 1948, he and 750,000 other Palestinians were forcefully expelled from their homes in what Israel sees as its independence, and Palestinians call the "Nakba," or catastrophe. My father spent his formative years in a refugee camp in the Jordan Valley. His feet are still rough and calloused from running around outside without shoes. He spent evenings listening to his elders wax poetic about home, still thinking they might one day return�not knowing they would all one day die in foreign cities, never again having laid eyes on Palestine.

"We embraced our Palestinian-ness�and our ethnic names�and never looked back."

Throughout my life, I've felt a constant longing emanating from my father, a sort of melancholy incompleteness. At some point his displacement became an essential part of my and my younger brother Layth's identities. Perhaps we felt the tension of being Palestinian-American more acutely as time went on, and it presented us with a choice: hide that part of ourselves or wear it like a badge. So we embraced our Palestinian-ness�and our ethnic names�and never looked back. By now, we know what's coming: unrest. And we brace ourselves for the status quo: American politicians will dismiss dead Palestinians as "terrorists," while respectfully mourning each lost Israeli life. We live with the guilt that we are here, not there. The guilt that we can come and go as we please, while Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are barricaded into their homes, neighborhoods, or cities. Israel is flanked by water, but many Palestinians will never see the sea.

The author and her brother in Washington, D.C.
Courtesy of Karmah Elmusa

I've grappled, almost desperately, to understand why my fellow Americans can't apply our beloved "put yourself in their shoes" mantra to the Palestinian experience. Instead our elected representatives are quick to condemn Palestinian violence, to ask how we would react if we were threatened by rockets "coming over the border from Mexico"? So, I'll ask some similar questions: How would you feel if you were born and raised in Chicago and then barred from ever visiting again? What if you were in labor and the military blocked your way to the hospital so you had to give birth on the side of the road? What if your brother was shot and killed by a soldier, and the case was never brought to trial?

The card-carrying optimist in me hopes the answers to those questions are clear, but it also allows me to approach our struggle from a place of hope. I find hope in the eyes of my lifelong Jewish-American friends as they nod in understanding (or ask us to write essays like this). I feel hopeful when people ask me what it means to be Palestinian. I feel hopeful when I'm given the opportunity to explain that Palestinians live with a deep anguish spawned by a lifetime spent under occupation. I want people in my American home to look at people in my Palestinian home and know that all they want are the same basic things Americans demand for themselves�like equal protection under the law. Like the ability to not only survive, but to really live.

Racist subhuman posted:

What a bias article?! Very disappointed that this bias point of view was allowed to be portrayed through such a publication as Elle. Now, I'd like to read one written by an Israeli. Subscription to Elle cancelled from now on.

Another racist posted:

I have a question for this one sided author. Does she accept a Jewish state side by side a "Palestinian" one? Most likely her father and the father'so relatives do not. This is the problems in this conflict that the biased article omits. Israel offered lots of land in exchange for peace

Ad infitum.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 04:16

The Insect Court: Nov 22, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Crowsbeak posted:

You know their incompetence actually gives me hope, in the sense that any government they ever headed would be a economic and international disaster. Of course being that their kahanists I have to wonder if they would try to final solution Palestinians.

Also Elle featured an article about a Palestinian American, mostly they jsut asked her about her life, but they did ask her about the current conflict. Unsurprisingly racists jumped on Elle for daring to show anyone who isn't Israeli from the ME as human.

Ad infitum.

Please explain to us how the following comments:

quote:

What a bias article?! Very disappointed that this bias point of view was allowed to be portrayed through such a publication as Elle. Now, I'd like to read one written by an Israeli. Subscription to Elle cancelled from now on.

quote:

I have a question for this one sided author. Does she accept a Jewish state side by side a "Palestinian" one? Most likely her father and the father'so relatives do not. This is the problems in this conflict that the biased article omits. Israel offered lots of land in exchange for peace

are the work of racist subhumans(as characterized by you).

If Elle had featured a similar piece written by an Israeli with the same sort of narrative of personal suffering and a call for empathy, what would your response have been? If someone had left a comment in response to her article along the lines of

quote:

What a bias article?! Very disappointed that this bias point of view was allowed to be portrayed through such a publication as Elle. Now, I'd like to read one written by an Palestinian. Subscription to Elle cancelled from now on.

Would you call the person who left that comment a racist subhuman?

How about this one?

quote:

I have a question for this one sided author. Does she accept a Palestinian state side by side a "Israeli" one? Most likely her father and the father'so relatives do not. This is the problems in this conflict that the biased article omits. Palestinians offered lots in exchange for peace

# ? Nov 3, 2015 12:28

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

So, TIC, if someone believes that there shouldn't be a Palestinian state but nor should they be citizens of Israel, is that a racist belief? A call for genocide? It really only leaves one option, if you actually take that opinion logically.

In fact the entire idea of not accepting a binational state is one extremely steeped in racism, don't you agree?

# ? Nov 3, 2015 12:31

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Crowsbeak posted:

Unsurprisingly racists jumped on Elle for daring to show anyone who isn't Israeli from the ME as human.

The Insect Court posted:

are the work of racist subhumans(as characterized by you).

Very interesting glimpse into your psyche. Where did Crowsbeak characterize them as subhumans?

# ? Nov 3, 2015 13:15

Hong XiuQuan: Feb 19, 2008; "Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

Cat Mattress posted:

Very interesting glimpse into your psyche. Where did Crowsbeak characterize them as subhumans?

He quoted one of them as a 'racist subhuman'.

TIC, a couple of questions:

1) do you believe there is something approaching parity in media sympathies for Israelis and Palestinians?

2) what do you make of accusations of Pallywood?

# ? Nov 3, 2015 13:24

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

The Insect Court posted:

Please explain to us how the following comments:

are the work of racist subhumans(as characterized by you).

If Elle had featured a similar piece written by an Israeli with the same sort of narrative of personal suffering and a call for empathy, what would your response have been? If someone had left a comment in response to her article along the lines of

Would you call the person who left that comment a racist subhuman?

How about this one?

I'll admit it, if you are explicitly racist against others You are a subhuman in my eyes, be it if you hate whites, blacks, Arabs, East Asians. Its all racism to me and it all to me ruins America and you obviously are fine with racism TIC.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 13:37

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

imo racism is a very human thing.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 13:52

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Also can I post stuff about Israel deciding to go for the F-15e silent eagle in preference to the numbers of flying jok-I mean the F35s? Or should that go in the f35 thread?

# ? Nov 3, 2015 14:01

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

emanresu tnuocca posted:

imo racism is a very human thing.

I think this is one of the few periods in the world where most people aren't loudly and explicitly racist against others so yeah

# ? Nov 3, 2015 14:01

Xander77: Apr 6, 2009; Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.

Crowsbeak posted:

Also can I post stuff about Israel deciding to go for the F-15e silent eagle in preference to the numbers of flying jok-I mean the F35s? Or should that go in the f35 thread?

Do both. I'll be able to finally put my long forgotten IAF museum experience to some use. (I don't actually know anything about the F35 besides the persistent forum lore though)

DarkCrawler posted:

I think this is one of the few periods in the world where most people aren't loudly and explicitly racist against others so yeah

Most people in the world still don't live in North America and select parts of Europe (news at 11)

# ? Nov 3, 2015 14:17

Hong XiuQuan: Feb 19, 2008; "Without justice for the Palestinians there will be no peace in the Middle East."

emanresu tnuocca posted:

imo racism is a very human thing.

Yes, so is rape, murder, theft, greed etc. These aren't things to aspire to and I imagine he's not talking about subhuman in the literal sense though such language isn't great when speaking about a Jewish person (or anyone else for that matter).

# ? Nov 3, 2015 14:26

Crowsbeak: Oct 9, 2012; by Azathoth; Lipstick Apathy

Xander77 posted:

Do both. I'll be able to finally put my long forgotten IAF museum experience to some use. (I don't actually know anything about the F35 besides the persistent forum lore though)

Most people in the world still don't live in North America and select parts of Europe (news at 11)

Most of the poo poo head commentators on that article do live in the USA.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 14:28

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Ascribing beliefs to someone's family due to their race does seem fairly racist to me, yeah.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 14:31

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Hong XiuQuan posted:

He quoted one of them as a 'racist subhuman'.

Teach me not to pay attention to the "<whoever> posted" stuff.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 14:57

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

Xander77 posted:

Most people in the world still don't live in North America and select parts of Europe (news at 11)

Loudly and explicitly, most people do have internalized racism and are more then comfortable in sharing that in close company, including in North America and all of Europe. But for most people in the world I don't think you can tell if they're racist or not and it's usually not a supported thing to say in public in most countries.

Baby steps :shrug:

(actually massive mindblowing steps considering the entire span of humanity and how long racism was a literal government policy everywhere)

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 15:10 on Nov 3, 2015

# ? Nov 3, 2015 15:08

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Hong XiuQuan posted:

Yes, so is rape, murder, theft, greed etc. These aren't things to aspire to and I imagine he's not talking about subhuman in the literal sense though such language isn't great when speaking about a Jewish person (or anyone else for that matter).

Yes humans are garbage, which is why it's silly to denounce something as widespread as racism as subhuman. I mean, aim for a better beast if you want to shame humans or something. sub-canine behavior would be a far more apt descriptor.

(it was a joke).

# ? Nov 3, 2015 15:13

Nosfereefer: Jun 15, 2011; IF YOU FIND THIS POSTER OUTSIDE BYOB, PLEASE RETURN THEM. WE ARE VERY WORRIED AND WE MISS THEM

Subhuman should really be restricted to refer to stuff below humans on the great chain of being, like the mule or a rock.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 15:17

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Mules are cool. They're a lot more useful than horses, and they're pretty smart.

There's no such thing as "below humans on the great chain of being" because there's no such thing as a "great chain of being". Like it's one thing to say "we can kill sheep for their meat and it's okay" but it'd be dumb to say that sheep are subhuman.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 15:21

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Nosfereefer posted:

Subhuman should really be restricted to refer to stuff below humans on the great chain of being, like the mule or a rock.

I dunno, while rocks have been occasionally known to drop out of the sky and exterminate 99% of the surface life on earth I struggle to think of times when rocks raped children or instituted apartheid laws in a country. What I'm saying is that us humans still have quite a way to go before we can be the moral equivalents of rocks, or basically any inanimate object, we really are the worst.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 15:23

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

Unconfirmed and whatever but:

quote:

Netanya
The police apprehended the terrorist
citizens attempted to lynch him
the police apprehended one of the leaders of the lynch mob
the lynch mob thought that the guy whom the police apprehended was also a terrorist
and attempted to lynch him as well

Wrap it up folks, we're way beyond the looking glass, it's a freaking mirror maze.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 15:36

Neurolimal: Nov 3, 2012

emanresu tnuocca posted:

Unconfirmed and whatever but:

Wrap it up folks, we're way beyond the looking glass, it's a freaking mirror maze.

Ah, finally, the answer to the age-old question "How do you enforce racial supremacy when the majority of citizens come from arabic semite origins?"

"You don't. Lynch everyone, death is certain" apparently.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 15:59

emanresu tnuocca: Sep 2, 2011; by Athanatos

I think the preferred nomenclature for this thing is "lynchin' creep".

Alternatively: lynchception.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 16:27

Xander77: Apr 6, 2009; Fuck it then. For another pit sandwich and some 'tater salad, I'll post a few more.

What's the policy on linking directly to facebook pics? I mean, it's kinda like a file host.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 16:43

GenderSelectScreen: Mar 7, 2010; I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME; College Slice

Xander77 posted:

What's the policy on linking directly to facebook pics? I mean, it's kinda like a file host.

They can take the hotlinking. It's not like it's some person's personal site. I mean, you don't get probated for hotlinking to Imgur, do you?

# ? Nov 3, 2015 16:45

Main Paineframe: Oct 27, 2010

Crowsbeak posted:

Most of the poo poo head commentators on that article do live in the USA.

Neither of the comments you quoted seem to be racist, vile, or lovely, though? One just accuses the magazine of bias, and the other simply criticizes the magazine for omitting historical information that the commenter clearly thinks is true. Being wrong is not necessarily racist.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 17:20

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 20:31

Absurd Alhazred: Mar 27, 2010; by Athanatos

Main Paineframe posted:

Neither of the comments you quoted seem to be racist, vile, or lovely, though? One just accuses the magazine of bias, and the other simply criticizes the magazine for omitting historical information that the commenter clearly thinks is true. Being wrong is not necessarily racist.

I think the characterization of those particular instances were more extreme than they merited, but when I read this (my bold):

quote:

I have a question for this one sided author. Does she accept a Palestinian state side by side a "Israeli" one? Most likely her father and the father'so relatives do not. This is the problems in this conflict that the biased article omits. Palestinians offered lots in exchange for peace

that's someone ascribing beliefs to someone's family members based on their national origin, hence bigoted/racist.

Even this:

quote:

What a bias article?! Very disappointed that this bias point of view was allowed to be portrayed through such a publication as Elle. Now, I'd like to read one written by an Israeli. Subscription to Elle cancelled from now on.

is a bit odd, since there's nothing out of the ordinary for a personal profile being biased, seeing as it's interviewing an individual about their lives, and I'm pretty sure Elle is not in the business of putting people's feet to the fire about every single issue, so demanding another profile for "balance" and then threatening/actually cancelling a subscription seems a bit extreme, if the comment-poster isn't racist, or at least someone monomaniacal.

Really, factually, has Elle never profiled an Israeli? I find that hard to believe.

# ? Nov 3, 2015 17:27

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > I/P: post-semitism in the desert of the deal

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