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Rebels can actually be a formidable threat at many stages of the game for even experienced players. Someone who has never lost a mid/lategame campaign to rebels is a coward who never goes over 120% overextension.
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Nov 4, 2015 17:40
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I don't really mind increased core costs, really. I think they could be better as something else, but +50% is really not that bad. I do think if you have the same source of it, you should be able to ignore it though. Mainly Berbers conquering Berbers.
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Nov 4, 2015 17:57
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That would be an easy fix, "50% increased coring cost if Berber is not an accepted culture".
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Nov 4, 2015 18:05
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Wiz posted:I don't love hostile core-creation as a mechanic, but I wasn't really convinced that any of the ideas presented would be an actual deterrent. I'll give it some thought though. "I'll think about it" is what I tell me kids when they're being obstinate, too.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:11
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Tahirovic posted:So let's do some sort of use cases on what the Berber Traditions do, to see if they work: Wallachia is frequently the final country to be taken over in the Balkans, likely precicesly because of the fact that their provinces end up being so expensive to core. I see screenshots all the time of a little Wallachia island in a sea of Commonwealth or Ottoman or Byzantium.
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Nov 4, 2015 18:59
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deathbagel posted:Wallachia is frequently the final country to be taken over in the Balkans, likely precicesly because of the fact that their provinces end up being so expensive to core. I see screenshots all the time of a little Wallachia island in a sea of Commonwealth or Ottoman or Byzantium. That reminds me that I need to get back and attempt another Dracula's Revenge run. double nine fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 19:06
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Eej posted:That would be an easy fix, "50% increased coring cost if Berber is not an accepted culture". Totally agree. I like the increased coring costs because it really is a good deterrent.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:16
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Kersch posted:Have you ever considered making attrition in deserts intense? Like 10%+ more attrition? But give countries that start in that type of terrain a national bonus that negates it. Maybe it can be negated by other nations later in game by tech, or a national idea. I've always thought culture should play a part in colonization too Like Malay cultures should find it easier to expand intro tropical regions, but would find it nigh impossible to expand into colder places, while Russians would find the opposite true.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:18
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I don't mind increased coring costs as a deterrent because it works really well, but I do hate it when some vassal I release ends up taking aristocratic and ends up costing me a ton of extra points because I'm punished for not looking up every minor and blackballing anyone who picks it. Basically in my ideal world where I don't care about how game balance is actually affected I'd rather have it limited entirely to national ideas or not count towards diplomatic annexation.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:32
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420 Gank Mid posted:Rebels can actually be a formidable threat at many stages of the game for even experienced players. Someone who has never lost a mid/lategame campaign to rebels is a coward who never goes over 120% overextension. Oh yeah. In the last years of my best game as Italy, where I had already conquered Austria, Spain and most of France I turned to the Ottomans and grabbed like all the balkans and a nice piece of Greece in a single war just to paint more of Europe my color, overextension be damned. Stacks of 15-20k rebels kept popping up all over the place literally every month for 2-3 years, that was incredibly tense, but I managed to crush them all with my endless armies and felt incredibly powerful, it cost me pretty much all of my 400k manpower though 
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Nov 4, 2015 19:35
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Hungary got stronger because their provinces became richer, not because they lost their increased coring cost. Wallachia develops their provinces a lot because of their inability to expand anywhere so they become this "1200 admin for 3 provinces" nightmare that nobody wants to deal with.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:35
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Whorelord posted:I've always thought culture should play a part in colonization too So do French, Spanish, Portuguese and English cultures just ignore climate or something because I don't know what this is supposed to accomplish.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:40
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Eej posted:So do French, Spanish, Portuguese and English cultures just ignore climate or something because I don't know what this is supposed to accomplish. yes
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Nov 4, 2015 19:41
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Wiz posted:People absolutely despise strong rebels, yes. They also make mincemeat out of new players. I still want you to port over the rebel system from Rome where major rebellions become their own new tag and can raise money/armies. Perhaps less loyal vassals might even transfer their loyalty to the new 'legitimate' government.
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Nov 4, 2015 20:00
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I don't know if you're coming at this from the angle of ensuring only the historical colonizers actually get to colonize things or if you think that sub-Saharan cultures should get more army movespeed.
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Nov 4, 2015 20:00
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As a new player playing Portugal, I don't really mind the increased coring costs in Africa. It's a mechanic that I take into account when deciding how much to push for when suing for peace with Morocco or Tlemcen, and it accomplishes its intended purpose: I can't advance too quickly without paying a high price. That area is kind of poo poo militarily, so I imagine that the increased coring cost is to prevent the player from doing the easy thing and immediately overrunning the whole region. That's a good thing from my perspective. Remember, Spain and Portugal are marked as "for beginners". Keeping North Africa kind of weak militarily prevents it from overrunning these "tutorial" nations, and increasing the cost of coring those provinces prevents the area from being too easy to dominate early on. If you just dump huge rebel stacks in the region instead then you run the risk of a new player not realizing how big a threat the rebels are and getting quickly dominated by them, which is even less fun than having to pay an increased coring cost.
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Nov 4, 2015 20:38
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Man, the Kiel canal seems...kinda pointless, really. I thought it might give a trade power bonus or something, but nope, just lets you save a couple weeks sailing around the finger of Denmark.
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Nov 4, 2015 21:53
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Strudel Man posted:Man, the Kiel canal seems...kinda pointless, really. I thought it might give a trade power bonus or something, but nope, just lets you save a couple weeks sailing around the finger of Denmark. Constructing the canals should give a worldwide trade power bonus or something similarly cool, if they have to be in the game at all. What I'd really like to see is canals changing the flow of trade nodes, though I don't think that's in the cards for EU4.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:01
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Vivian Darkbloom posted:Constructing the canals should give a worldwide trade power bonus or something similarly cool, if they have to be in the game at all. What I'd really like to see is canals changing the flow of trade nodes, though I don't think that's in the cards for EU4.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:11
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The Suez and Panama canals could actually be incredibly useful for moving troops in a global empire, they just are too expensive and unlock way too late to matter. The Kiel canal, meanwhile, is completely useless and being available from 1444 wouldn't make it worth having (joy, I just opened up my perfect naval bottleneck!)
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Nov 4, 2015 22:11
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Funky Valentine posted:The Suez and Panama canals could actually be incredibly useful for moving troops in a global empire, they just are too expensive and unlock way too late to matter. Hasnt a dev diary mentioned that canals will no longer be accessible to enemies at war? (Assuming the province is still controlled by you)
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Nov 4, 2015 22:41
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Eej posted:I don't know if you're coming at this from the angle of ensuring only the historical colonizers actually get to colonize things or if you think that sub-Saharan cultures should get more army movespeed. I think what he's saying is that countries that live predominantly in jungle regions shouldn't have a penalty to colonizing jungle provinces like everyone else does.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:56
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Fister Roboto posted:I think what he's saying is that countries that live predominantly in jungle regions shouldn't have a penalty to colonizing jungle provinces like everyone else does. It was that way in EU3, not sure why it changed.
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Nov 4, 2015 22:57
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So apparently Denmark can join the HRE at the start of the game, at least if you don't annex Holstein first. I'm not sure what this opens up for me in a play-through. Maybe I could become Emperor?
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Nov 4, 2015 22:59
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:So apparently Denmark can join the HRE at the start of the game, at least if you don't annex Holstein first.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:23
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I built the Suez canal as the Byzantine Empire and while it did help me take parts of the East Indies and eastern Africa, it also opened up a perfect route for Super Britain to expand their empire as well which sucked since we had been enemies for centuries. Question for Wiz (that has probably already been considered) any thought of having some way to block hostile fleets from moving through canals that you control? Like if you had a Fort built in Panama could you block any hostile fleet from moving through without taking the Fort first? Or other nations needing to request fleet basing rights to move through?
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Nov 4, 2015 23:25
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Trundel posted:I built the Suez canal as the Byzantine Empire and while it did help me take parts of the East Indies and eastern Africa, it also opened up a perfect route for Super Britain to expand their empire as well which sucked since we had been enemies for centuries. I thought the most recent patch did just that; fleets can't pass through canals owned by the enemy.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:28
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Lance of Llanwyln posted:After you devour those juicy North German minors and suck up all that sweet Baltic trade without Austria defending them, of course. I've very bad at map games. I want other nations to exist and envy me- conquering them means they can't stand at my border and ask to come in. I'll probably take The Hansa because seriously gently caress those guys.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:28
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Fister Roboto posted:I think what he's saying is that countries that live predominantly in jungle regions shouldn't have a penalty to colonizing jungle provinces like everyone else does. I've wanted this for a longass time but I think it's partly balance related to slow down African and Asian colonial starts which are, honestly, kind of rediculously easy.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:28
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Node posted:I thought the most recent patch did just that; fleets can't pass through canals owned by the enemy. That's for at-war fleets though; I think he wants it for fleets of rivals and stuff too.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:32
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I think what really aggravates players is that it's hard to really win a war against a country unless you can destroy it in some way. Against Berber states, it's punitive to core them, and they're too large to vassalize. So all you can really do is force them into a peace treaty for a while and then they're back, raiding your stuff and being a nuisance. Essentially exactly like they behaved for literally the entire period that EU4 spans. Buff the Berbers more. Let them protect trade and privateer with galleys in any trade node that abuts an inland sea province. This would give them naval supremacy over the Iberians early on, too, because they would be able to fund an outsize navy by using their military ships as economic ships, too. Dibujante fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 23:32
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Koramei posted:That's for at-war fleets though; I think he wants it for fleets of rivals and stuff too. That would be great. Even though you already need a huge amount of gold to build one, and quickly make it back some other tangible benefit would be excellent.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:01
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Sailing a fleet from Somalia to Tunisia in 1800 is a pain in the rear end. Building the Suez Canal is a giant pain in the rear end.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:13
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:So apparently Denmark can join the HRE at the start of the game, at least if you don't annex Holstein first. The main drawback is it'll demote you to Duke rank, which isn't that big of a deal long-term. Joining the HRE is almost the only way for Denmark to expand much into Germany, since otherwise you'll have to fight the Emperor and that's a tough fight you really don't want to have to do repeatedly. Denmark's NIs are kinda "eh" but you are in a really good position to dominate Lubeck, which is a great trade node. Grab the trade provinces there, integrate Norway and start colonizing if you want, push into the Baltic and Russia, whatevs.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:15
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Pellisworth posted:The main drawback is it'll demote you to Duke rank, which isn't that big of a deal long-term. Joining the HRE is almost the only way for Denmark to expand much into Germany, since otherwise you'll have to fight the Emperor and that's a tough fight you really don't want to have to do repeatedly. I kind of wish there was more to playing smaller nations. I know they've done a lot on this, but in part I know if I don't expand and integrate Norway/Sweden, Sweden will spend the rest of the game trying to kill me.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:27
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Dibujante posted:I think what really aggravates players is that it's hard to really win a war against a country unless you can destroy it in some way. Against Berber states, it's punitive to core them, and they're too large to vassalize. So all you can really do is force them into a peace treaty for a while and then they're back, raiding your stuff and being a nuisance. Hello. Might I introduce you to war exhaustion? Here's the rub: get into a war, occupy all their provinces. And wait. Their war exhaustion will skyrocket. Once it hits max levels, make a white peace. War exhaustion reduces the more demands you make in the peace deal, hence the white peace. Now watch as a million rebels spawn and make their life a miserable hell. It is quite possible to introduce a never-ending cycle of rebellions -> lower stability -> rebellions doing this.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:44
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Gort posted:Sailing a fleet from Somalia to Tunisia in 1800 is a pain in the rear end. Building the Suez Canal is a giant pain in the rear end. I sort of appreciate playing a naval power, because it makes the game into much more of a logistics simulator where you're setting up little timetables in your head all the time. I wish it were easier to keep track of when poo poo got to a destination though.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:49
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420 Gank Mid posted:Hasnt a dev diary mentioned that canals will no longer be accessible to enemies at war? (Assuming the province is still controlled by you) It would be even better if there was a way to make people pay for moving fleets through, so if you rush the Suez you can have people pay you for the privilege of access.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:56
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Larry Parrish posted:It would be even better if there was a way to make people pay for moving fleets through, so if you rush the Suez you can have people pay you for the privilege of access. You could bar access to the straits to anyone who does not have either military access or fleet basing rights. Then you could charge fleet basing rights for the right to travel the canal. You could tack on a flat fee or something to the normal fleet basing rights cost for anyone who has a canal to make it really lucrative. Or add a new "canal rights" diplomatic option. Basically, now that it's possible to bar access, I don't see why the default status should not be "barred". Pay up, suckers!
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Nov 5, 2015 03:01
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Owners of canals could bar access in peace time in a similar manner to a trade embargo, and thereby also granting a trade CB for balance.
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Nov 5, 2015 03:31
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