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KataraniSword posted:unless you saw the pressing need to wander out of Lindblum early. (Can you even do that?) You can, yeah, but IIRC the only opportunity is when you're solo with Zidane. It's also only on a tiny mountaintop bit, not the bottom floor gate.
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Nov 3, 2015 00:58
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This reminds me. Is Alexandria looking for anyone besides Garnet? Do they know what the Tantalus troupe looks like? I suppose they must not care all that much. Either that or Marcus and Cinna did some serious shenanigans at the base station.
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Nov 3, 2015 01:37
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Glazius posted:Is Alexandria looking for anyone besides Garnet? Do they know what the Tantalus troupe looks like? We're never given any indication of this, honestly. No one seems to even notice that Steiner is missing from Alexandria.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:55
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Or the fact that South Gate seems manned by Lindblum soldiers exclusively. The Alexandria side of South Gate has 0 soldiers or guards outside of 1 po-dunk gate which could just be walked around. The "friendship gate" is clearly just a Lindblum outpost to guard from attacks.
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Nov 3, 2015 14:11
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I think that Alexandria has shown itself to be expansionist so it makes sense for Lindblum to guard it's borders pretty carefully. Has Lindblum shown that it's likely to invade anyone, and made it worthwhile for Alexandria to place guards there? Also, Alexandria placing soldiers on the border, even just a few as guards, might be seen as a buildup of force prepping for invasion. I haven't played this game for a while though and could be very wrong in my interpretation of the military/political climate. *edited to fix a typo
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Nov 3, 2015 17:35
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:No one seems to even notice that Steiner is missing from Alexandria. well, this is understandable
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Nov 3, 2015 17:39
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:We're never given any indication of this, honestly. No one seems to even notice that Steiner is missing from Alexandria. I like to imagine that the Knights of Pluto are just wandering around aimlessly walking up towers for exercise, writing books, and hitting on their opposite numbers and never reporting for duty or doing their job. And no one notices.
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Nov 3, 2015 17:52
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Xenocides posted:I like to imagine that the Knights of Pluto are just wandering around aimlessly walking up towers for exercise, writing books, and hitting on their opposite numbers and never reporting for duty or doing their job. And with Steiner gone they've never been more efficient.
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Nov 3, 2015 22:35
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Sum Mors posted:Or the fact that South Gate seems manned by Lindblum soldiers exclusively. The Alexandria side of South Gate has 0 soldiers or guards outside of 1 po-dunk gate which could just be walked around. The "friendship gate" is clearly just a Lindblum outpost to guard from attacks. Could be all the Alexandrian soldiers are currently busy killing rat people.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:33
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UnwiseTrout posted:And with Steiner gone they've never been more efficient. I honestly wouldn't attribute that to Steiner's absence. Remember, his main job is getting the Knights of Pluto to do THEIR jobs, so they're probably all slacking off somewhere now. And without them hitting on female soldiers, begging the kitchen staff for food, or getting in the librarians' way while looking for inspirational reading, things at the castle are running more smoothly.
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Nov 4, 2015 00:40
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GalenEvil posted:I think that Alexandria has shown itself to be expansionist so it makes sense for Lindblum to guard it's borders pretty carefully. Has Lindblum shown that it's likely to invade anyone, and made it worthwhile for Alexandria to place guards there? Also, Alexandria placing soldiers on the border, even just a few as guards, might be seen as a buildup of force prepping for invasion. I haven't played this game for a while though and could be very wrong in my interpretation of the military/political climate.
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Nov 4, 2015 02:39
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FinalGamer posted:That entire little segment of South Gate Part 2: The Southening is pretty much a great compact example of why I love this game. Pointlessly interesting NPC conversations, small moments of good body language and dialogue along with a very interesting fight in terms of mechanical integration to the consistency of the story. Xenocides posted:I love the disc intro of two soldiers just chatting. Has a very Shakespeare vibe about it. Squarely Circle posted:Yeah, the exchange between the guards is one of my favorite little things. This game has the best NPCs Bad Seafood posted:Steiner is the best character. I always liked how much Steiner annoyed me because of his naivety and convictions but not anything he really does. He's a great character. It seems like there's always really shallow mouth pieces or obvious arcs in characters like him but the subtlety (relative) of his development and traits was always really nice. And he isn't an antagonist, you know? Like, all the characters might have some beef or disagreement with him but they still respect him and keep him around. If that makes any frickin sense. I also like that he loves those nasty pickles. ziasquinn fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 18:19
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It makes sense. Garnet likely respects Steiner due to his position, but has to reign him in sometimes. I'm not sure how much face time they've had with each other before this adventure, but given that Steiner seems to be equivalent rank with Beatrix and reports directly to the queen when she goes missing. So, they might know each other fairly well before this and have a decent relationship. Vivi also seems to look up to Steiner a little, but, well, he kinda looks up to everyone. At the very least, I don't think we've seen Vivi particularly have any dislike for anyone aside from Black Waltz #3 and maybe Brahne. Even Zidane, while he finds his whole "ARGH YOU PEASANT" routine annoying, seems to at least have a degree of trust with Steiner. You know, when their goals aren't in opposition.
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Nov 4, 2015 19:11
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:I'm not sure how much face time they've had with each other before this adventure, but given that Steiner seems to be equivalent rank with Beatrix and reports directly to the queen when she goes missing. If the Alexandrian Army's military is anything like America's, Steiner is actually pretty lowly ranked; Captain is one of the lowest officer classes (just above Second and First Lieutenant, the lowest and second-lowest officer classes) and is a full 7 ranks lower than General, which is the highest non-wartime rank. Furthermore, he commands only the Knights of Pluto, while Beatrix oversees the entire army. Even assuming they use a similar rank system due to a far lower population (and thus army membership) than in real life, he's obviously pretty lowly-regarded. I'm not sure whether to attribute that to his hard-headedness or the whole Army of Women thing Alexandria's got going on. You'd think his years of experience and level of dedication would put him at something like Colonel, or at least Major. Or maybe he was closer to her in rank in the Japanese version and they didn't pick his English rank name too carefully. Come to think of it, I wonder why Alexandria has the whole Amazon theme in the first place. Normally I would figure it's because of Alexandria being ruled by a Queen, but Garnet mentions that her father, who would presumably be the King, died only recently. Unless the Queen rules even with a King in place, sort of like the Falena Queendom of Suikoden 5.
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Nov 4, 2015 20:01
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Hobgoblin2099 posted:Even Zidane, while he finds his whole "ARGH YOU PEASANT" routine annoying, seems to at least have a degree of trust with Steiner. You know, when their goals aren't in opposition. Basically, if Zidane wasn't so used to all these tropes of tales of chivalrie I bet Steiner would be MUCH more annoying to him, but he respects that he is legit about wanting to protect the princess because it's his duty. He knows at the very least Steiner would never do anything that could put Garnet into danger willingly, and that by and large he will protect other people that need defending. I think even Steiner acknowledges in some small part that Zidane as roguish and pragmatic he is, will also do anything to protect people, it's almost kind of like Jean Valjean and Inspector Javert teaming up briefly despite their differences. Honestly surprised there's not a Les Mithrilables joke in there somewhere 
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Nov 4, 2015 21:44
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Bufuman posted:Come to think of it, I wonder why Alexandria has the whole Amazon theme in the first place. Normally I would figure it's because of Alexandria being ruled by a Queen, but Garnet mentions that her father, who would presumably be the King, died only recently. Unless the Queen rules even with a King in place, sort of like the Falena Queendom of Suikoden 5. Because Brahne is Queen, Garnet's father would never be the King. He'd be the Prince of Alexandria. If he was King, then when he died Garnet would have become the Queen instead.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:07
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Dragonatrix posted:Because Brahne is Queen, Garnet's father would never be the King. He'd be the Prince of Alexandria. If he was King, then when he died Garnet would have become the Queen instead. Yeah, exactly. If a woman is the heir apparent to the Crown, she becomes Queen when she takes over, and her husband is a "Prince consort"* (even if he's allowed to use King as his title). Likewise, if a King inherits, his wife is usually called Queen, even though she's technically a princess/queen consort as well. When the "regnant" of the couple dies, the crown passes to his/her heir apparent. If you're familiar with terms like "Empress Dowager" in Chinese history for example, that's the title of the emperor's widow when he dies and power passes to his heir. * With a couple exceptions. Right now Prince Philip of England is a Prince consort, but not a Prince Consort, because Elizabeth never granted him that title. Gotta love it. It's possible in good Crusader Kings tradition that Brahne wasn't the heir and usurped the throne (certainly not unheard of for a queen dowager made Regent to do something like that) but considering how everybody loves her before the whole "Let's take over the world" plot begins it's unlikely. Bufuman posted:If the Alexandrian Army's military is anything like America's, Steiner is actually pretty lowly ranked; I think the idea is the Knights of Pluto are basically the Praetorian Guard, which is why while Steiner's rank is clearly lower than Beatrix's (whatever else you can say about fantasy military, general always > captain ), they treat each other (and Brahne treats them) as equals. Just like in Rome, some factions are more important than others, regardless of what the structure actually is. And it kind of explains their reputation; the world has been at peace for so long there's no serious threat against Alexandria, so the guards are a joke and they know it (even if Steiner doesn't, heh).
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Nov 4, 2015 23:27
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You're probably looking into Alexandria's succession politics infinitely more than the developers did. The father was the king. His wife, the Queen, took over after his death. Garnet will succeed Brahne.
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Nov 4, 2015 23:39
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Come to think of it, the game kicks off on Garnet's 16th birthday. Perhaps Brahne assumed the power of Queen because Garnet wasn't of age. Though I really didn't see any signs of Brahne intending to relinquish power any time soon, nor did anyone else seem to entertain the idea at all, so either she assumed power in a more permanent sense, or, as mentioned by Orcs there, I'm looking into this too deeply and it really doesn't matter much in the long run. Still, you'd think there'd be more than nine men of low-to-mid level competence in the entire freaking army, even with the whole Women Rule Here thing going. Well, nine IS the magical number for this entry of the series.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:07
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I'd have to look it up, but there are 12 Knights of Pluto (13 with Steiner).
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Nov 5, 2015 00:14
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Bufuman posted:as mentioned by Orcs there, I'm looking into this too deeply and it really doesn't matter much in the long run. Well, absolutely, but that's part of the fun, comparing things in video games to the real world. Or "games" in general; most of the info I know about dynastic succession and all that stuff is recent, and it's because a few years ago my D&D group starting playing exclusively in Eberron, so we started comparing how the royal families in that game work compared to actual history. One interesting thing is that very few monarchies (I can't think of any off the top of my head in fact) work the way Orcs described; with power passing to the spouse of the actual dynast instead of his or her heir. It sounds like a simple common-sense idea, but where did it come from since it's not actually historical? Stuff like that. v Ha ha, yeah, true. The whole point of being King was making up the rules until the masses stopped letting you get away with it. Wayne fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 00:14
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I think it came about because very few monarchies in general were "typical". The deal of succession is different in every monarchy and the rules changed with every succession because of political intrigue and murder and plot and all that. It's never been cut and dry and anyone with the will to kill could usurp and make up new rules as to why they were legitimate.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:19
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:You're probably looking into Alexandria's succession politics infinitely more than the developers did. Its the Cersei way
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Nov 5, 2015 00:27
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Sum Mors posted:I'd have to look it up, but there are 12 Knights of Pluto (13 with Steiner). It's nine:  That's where the "of Pluto" comes in; (formally) ninth planet, nine men, ninth FF The tenth one you interact with is Blank in disguise.
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Nov 5, 2015 00:39
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:You're probably looking into Alexandria's succession politics infinitely more than the developers did. Sum Mors posted:I think it came about because very few monarchies in general were "typical". The deal of succession is different in every monarchy and the rules changed with every succession because of political intrigue and murder and plot and all that. It's never been cut and dry and anyone with the will to kill could usurp and make up new rules as to why they were legitimate. ... I realize few of us know or care much about the rules and customs of monarchies (despite the sad fact that we still have quite a few monarchies around) - which is absolutely fine. Just... don't start explaining things you don't know or care about?
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Nov 5, 2015 01:40
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Xander77 posted:I realize few of us know or care much about the rules and customs of monarchies (despite the sad fact that we still have quite a few monarchies around) - which is absolutely fine. Just... don't start explaining things you don't know or care about? I'll have you know I have played approximately eight million games of Crusader Kings so that makes me the single biggest expert on all forms of heir-based government. 
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Nov 5, 2015 03:20
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Bufuman posted:Unless the Queen rules even with a King in place, sort of like the Falena Queendom of Suikoden 5. Ferid was the commander of the queen's guard, not the king.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:08
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Ferid may not have been a King, but the setting was still a monarchy where the Queen had primacy. If a male heir becomes king, the woman he takes as his wife becomes queen and rules the nation.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:15
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Nah, they specifically said in the game that succession was female-only. The prince, despite being the elder sibling, wasn't in line for the throne at all.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:17
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Huh, I thought there was a conversation in that game where one of the female party members says that if she married the prince and Lym died, she'd become queen? Maybe I'm misremembering that.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:21
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Captain Bravo posted:Huh, I thought there was a conversation in that game where one of the female party members says that if she married the prince and Lym died, she'd become queen? Maybe I'm misremembering that. There's a difference between heir apparent and heir presumptive. If there was literally no other female members of the royal family left to lead, the prince would become next in line.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:31
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Right, that's what I'm saying. Queens have primacy, it's a queendom and it'll always be led by a queen. But in the circumstance all the female royals die off, the male heir would be king until he married, in which case his wife would become the queen and take control. Although, maybe in that situation once he married he would no longer be king? Would they strip his title when his wife is crowned? I don't know, man. But it keeps me up at night.
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Nov 5, 2015 04:48
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Fister Roboto posted:Ferid was the commander of the queen's guard, not the king. Aye, hence the "sort of" in my post. As for who would rule Falena if all female heirs died, the most likely successor would be a female noble with the closest relation to the most recently deceased Queen, and in the event of multiple such nobles, a war of succession where the winner takes the crown by force. A similar situation occurs in Wheel of Time series, where the current queen and her daughter/heir of the country of Andor (historically ruled only by queens) were both presumed to have been killed, and a small-scale war erupted among the nobility over the matter of who would ascend the throne. Granted, this has little to do with FFIX, and for all we know, Alexandria may or may not be strictly a Queendom, so the point is moot unless one of the world-building books can answer the matter. EDIT: Also, keep in mind that Falena very much IS a Queendom; it's a minor plot point early on in Suikoden 5 that the Prince, even if he saves the country from the faction that's controlling the princess (his sister) as a puppet ruler, would not be able to assume the throne. The method he was offered to become King basically involved annexing part of the country as his own kingdom. Presumably, given that this plan was hatched at all by his snake of an adviser, he would not be able to rule Falena itself even if his sister and aunts (the last remaining female members of the royal family) were killed during the war. Bufuman fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 05:02
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I feel like Zidane would be much more comfortable as a Prince Consort than a King anyway.
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Nov 5, 2015 05:05
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Your Dead Gay Son posted:I always liked how much Steiner annoyed me because of his naivety and convictions but not anything he really does. He's a great character. It seems like there's always really shallow mouth pieces or obvious arcs in characters like him but the subtlety (relative) of his development and traits was always really nice. And he isn't an antagonist, you know? Like, all the characters might have some beef or disagreement with him but they still respect him and keep him around. People who eat pickles are nice people. 
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Nov 5, 2015 07:24
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Pesky Splinter posted:It's nine: Thanks, for some reason I thought there were more. I swear in my last play through a certain thing had more options to it than 4.
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Nov 5, 2015 09:55
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Xander77 posted:But the order of inheritance going from parent to child is pretty much the rule. Perhaps I didn't explain myself thoroughly enough, but I know that was the standard. What I meant was that it was atypical for the child to comfortably move on without some other family member trying to usurp, or there just not being a natural heir, or some other thing going on. The standard plan might have been "father to child" but I don't think its a stretch to say that it went like that clean as a whistle every time or even most of the time. Feel free to post that me saying "most of the time" doesn't meet some strict >51% of the time rule or something though.
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Nov 5, 2015 10:01
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Sum Mors posted:Thanks, for some reason I thought there were more. I swear in my last play through a certain thing had more options to it than 4. The certain thing is four questions asked in series, and each one has options.
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Nov 5, 2015 11:15
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Bufuman posted:Or maybe he was closer to her in rank in the Japanese version and they didn't pick his English rank name too carefully. Beatrix is a shogun while Steiner more or less has the same meaning in "taichou", so if anything it's even more disparate in connotation
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Nov 5, 2015 16:16
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Comparing ranks using American military titles is silly because a) Alexandria is obviously not America and b) ranks have gone through centuries of linguistic telephone to get to what they are today, and the names just mean different things in different contexts. Yes, in the Army or Air Force, a captain (O-3) is a mid-ranking officer, but in the Navy, a captain (O-6) is much higher up. In the general sense, a captain is just another name for a leader of some form of group. Like the captain of a football team, or the captain of the royal guards. Steiner is the captain of his band of knights.
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Nov 5, 2015 18:08
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