Snowman_McK posted:Those were both terrible. Prometheus and Alien 3?
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Nov 5, 2015 01:45
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Lurdiak posted:Prometheus and Alien 3? The videos. The movies are fine. Prometheus is excellent.
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Nov 5, 2015 01:47
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Lurdiak posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0 These guys are either in on the joke of Prometheus or extremely oblivious. Either way I laughed a lot. Gotta answer those questions!
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Nov 5, 2015 01:49
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1WSD_cnRbA Never forget
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Nov 5, 2015 02:11
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Lurdiak posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-x1YuvUQFJ0 These are good. It manages to both simultaneously make fun of Prometheus and the people overly confused at the plot obsessing over stupid questions.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:27
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They liked Prometheus.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:36
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Jay has said since that he wishes he hadn't let the disproportionate backlash influence his review, because he feels he was too easy on the film. They all pretty much feel "It wasn't a good movie, but it wasn't a disaster either" as a group.
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Nov 5, 2015 02:38
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That reminds me a lot of their Dark Knight Honest Trailer outtakes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acYl2lpq1YI It kind of completely destroys Honest Trailers.
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Nov 5, 2015 05:00
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MonsieurChoc posted:That reminds me a lot of their Dark Knight Honest Trailer outtakes. It really does. I don't think the Prometheus question videos are intended as a takedown of Prometheus, they just thought it was funny how convoluted the movie gets.
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Nov 5, 2015 05:02
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And how dumb the fans are about it. A nice mix of both.
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Nov 5, 2015 05:39
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Baronjutter posted:I mean if you don't think alien 3 (assembly) is good you don't really "get" alien. Alien^3 is a decent movie, but absolutely not a good Alien movie. It's a Cube movie - like Cube, Jim Henson's The Cube, Exam, or Predators - a variation on the Twilight Zone episode "Five Characters in Search of an Exit". Alien Cubed(!) is an extremely rudimentary existential allegory, with characters placed in a confined location for no clear reason and trying to find meaning in it all. It's a Mad Libs: "Earth is like being trapped in an enormous ________ (jungle/classroom/wastebasket/prison...). Why were we put here? Here's a character who's a ________ (nihilist/optimist/liberal/paranoiac/fundamentalist...), and he reacts to that question. Eventually everyone dies, but someone occasionally ascends to a higher plane of reality." Note that none of the other films use this format - and that Prometheus, an actual Alien film, deals with the 'why are we here?' question in a completely different way. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:26 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 09:08
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I would have liked a Blomkamp Alien movie but tbh I want them to give celtic predator the budget for one just to see what he would do. Not even to make some point about his ideas being good or not, I just want to see what that would be at this point. I've never seen someone who's a bigger fan of Alien who also doesn't want Alien films to feature the central characters or concepts from Alien. If I was pithier I would claim that Alien fans do not like Alien. What they actually like is 'the xenomorph', a thing that doesn't exist outside of the film whose filmic properties they're trying to reject. I don't get it and I am melting aaaagh
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Nov 5, 2015 09:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:
But what about monkey DNA?
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Nov 5, 2015 16:08
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I wish the aliens could talk. Turn the pictures from these mindless violence gore fests movies about a monster into an actual film that has deep thought provoking philosophical discussions about their gender differences compared to ours.
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Nov 5, 2015 16:51
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Hbomberguy posted:I would have liked a Blomkamp Alien movie but tbh I want them to give celtic predator the budget for one just to see what he would do. Not even to make some point about his ideas being good or not, I just want to see what that would be at this point. I've never seen someone who's a bigger fan of Alien who also doesn't want Alien films to feature the central characters or concepts from Alien. Thanks! But I only reject those things because they already exist. I've been looking at Alien related media since I was a small child. And the biggest problem I have is, they never do anything new. They keep doing the same old thing over and over again and never cracking it because it simply isn't interesting a second time. Alien is a perfect film about blue collar people, sucked into a world of the hostile corporate entity, driven by power and money to harvest a psycho-sexual rape monster. Aliens is about soldiers who are sucked into the world of a hostile corporate entity, driven by power and money to harvest a psycho-sexual rape monster. Alien 3 is a about prisoners sucked into a world of a hostile corporate entity, driven by power and money to harvest a psycho-sexual rape monster. 3 movies is fine...but after that, it just gets dull. Replace that with every kind of person, and you have the Aliens EU. Personally, I want to see the side of the hostile corporate entity. I want to see what an Alien-Bio Weapon would look like. I want to see how it's used. I've had this image of a person using the Alien like a suicide bomber. They would enter a public place, and have the Alien explode from them, which would slowly, but surely destroy whatever area they want. It's an image I'd love to see on film. It's hard to see new things if people keep wanting to tap into the old poo poo. I mean, Aliens Colonial Marines was just about the worst thing ever made from this franchise, and ultimately made me fearful of anyone trying to recon the series. The only thing that would've given Blomkamp's Aliens fan film merit in my eyes, would be that Newt became the head of W-Y and was currently harvesting Aliens out of fear and desperation. But I highly doubt that would've happened. Ripley, Hicks, and Newt are dead. Get over it. Do something no one has seen yet. Which is why, regardless of my problems with Prometheus, I'd take that a thousand times over seeing Marines again.
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Nov 5, 2015 23:58
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Snowman_McK posted:Also, the fact that the aliens themselves have been so overused, overexposed and run into the ground that it's essentially impossible to take them seriously or make them scary. Snowman_McK posted:The creature is utterly over-exposed. It's too ubiquitous to do unironically. It would be like trying to sincerely recreate the shower scene from "Psycho" or the beach scene in "From Here to Eternity" Every time I watch any of the Alien movies I'm just roaring with laughter and slapping my knee repeatedly every time a xenomorph is on screen. I can't take those clown monsters seriously! They are just too embedded in the cultural mainstream for me to find them at all frightening or threatening. I can't help but see them as anything other than the most humorous puppets ever put to film! Oh an alien? Tension destroyed! Just burn every existing copy of those films cause they can't ever be watched with a straight face by anyone ever again.
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Nov 6, 2015 00:42
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Every time I watch any of the Alien movies I'm just roaring with laughter and slapping my knee repeatedly every time a xenomorph is on screen. I can't take those clown monsters seriously! They are just too embedded in the cultural mainstream for me to find them at all frightening or threatening. I can't help but see them as anything other than the most humorous puppets ever put to film! Oh an alien? Tension destroyed! Just burn every existing copy of those films cause they can't ever be watched with a straight face by anyone ever again. When you sit down and rewatch the original Alien, do you react the same way you did the first time you watched it? Do you run out of the room screaming the way people reportedly did back in 79? Or do you appreciate it as an incredibly well constructed film, with a phenomenal script, cast, set design, monster design and cinematography? Familiarity breeds contempt, and we've had nearly 40 years to get familiar. It's not the fault of the original films. They just have the same problem that every classic film ends up with. When something's good enough, and everyone copies it, it loses a lot of its impact. The problem lies with what's been done with the IP, which has run that poo poo into the ground.
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Nov 6, 2015 01:14
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I've purged bad aliens memories from my mind. It's far too scary to ever not be scary. Even if an idiot uses it badly it doesn't make it any less scary. My brain just thinks "nah, that's not the real alien" or "that's just some goof ball trying to tell a scary story using a famous legitimately scary monster" Also the alien(s) in each movie is different enough in both design, behavior, and relation to the plot that I at least have very separate emotions and memories related to each one. You could make the absolute worst alien movie ever that absolutely "ruins" the monster but it won't effect my feelings of it in other good movies. I guess in terms of scariness I judge each movie as its own canon. I agree though that the franchise needs to be taken in more creative directions and not rely on the alien as a crutch. The best of the best comics are ok, the video game is great for capturing the feel of the first movie, but everything else is garbage.
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Nov 6, 2015 02:29
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Snowman_McK posted:When you sit down and rewatch the original Alien, do you react the same way you did the first time you watched it? Do you run out of the room screaming the way people reportedly did back in 79? Or do you appreciate it as an incredibly well constructed film, with a phenomenal script, cast, set design, monster design and cinematography? People keep managing to be scared of vampires and ghosts and should t after more than a century of movies about them, not to mention other media, so I dunno if this holds water.
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Nov 6, 2015 02:36
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oldpainless posted:I wish the aliens could talk. Turn the pictures from these mindless violence gore fests movies about a monster into an actual film that has deep thought provoking philosophical discussions about their gender differences compared to ours. There's no reason to assume they can't have such discussions in their own language.
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Nov 6, 2015 02:57
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Snowman_McK posted:When you sit down and rewatch the original Alien, do you react the same way you did the first time you watched it? Do you run out of the room screaming the way people reportedly did back in 79? Or do you appreciate it as an incredibly well constructed film, with a phenomenal script, cast, set design, monster design and cinematography? Despite what marketers, cultural critics, and businessmen want you to think, Alien is a good horror movie not because it is novel, but because it is well-made and loving terrifying. It is impossible to make a film or other cultural work that diminishes these facts because they are inherent to the film itself and don't rely on any outside information or context. Also, calling something a "classic" and then saying that its impact is diminished because of imitators is oxymoronic. Things are considered classics because they withstand cheap imitation, the test of time, the constantly shifting tastes of the mass market, and so on.
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Nov 6, 2015 03:15
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Lurdiak posted:There's no reason to assume they can't have such discussions in their own language. If youre not going to take posting seriously then you should not post in this thread.
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Nov 6, 2015 03:16
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DeimosRising posted:People keep managing to be scared of vampires and ghosts and should t after more than a century of movies about them, not to mention other media, so I dunno if this holds water. The gently caress was the last scary vampire movie? Blade? And that's an example of taking the traditional idea of the vampire and transforming it. Ghosts I'll give you because it's a really open concept. Are they poltergeist types? Swirling apparitions? Your own guilt made manifest? You can do a lot with the concept. You can do a lot with the alien concept too, it's just that people don't. Like I said earlier in the thread, I love Aliens, but, in a very specific way, it took the alien itself in the wrong direction. It made it's lifecycle comprehensible, clear, analogous to something on earth. The next movie should have taken it further or thrown it out the window. Which is what Prometheus did.
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Nov 6, 2015 03:38
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Sarcasm aside, it seems that your underlying concern here is that a new Alien film won't be as culturally impactful or as financially successful as Alien and Aliens. Most people will tell you that the reason they're so important is that they did new things that were never before seen on screen. For me, that's pretty irrelevant to how good or worthy of existence a film is. quote:Despite what marketers, cultural critics, and businessmen want you to think, Alien is a good horror movie not because it is novel, but because it is well-made and loving terrifying. It is impossible to make a film or other cultural work that diminishes these facts because they are inherent to the film itself and don't rely on any outside information or context. Why would marketers try to convince me of that? Wouldn't that diminish my interest in whatever they were selling? Unless it was the mental an emotional experiences of someone from 1979. It is a really well made movie. When I saw it, however, circa 2004 or so, I was not scared. Ever. Because all the brilliant film making in the world would struggle to overcome how iconic almost every scene in it is (with the exception of Ash's turn) and it's harder to engage with a film like that. Aliens, I saw much younger and knew very little about. That poo poo kept me up for a week. quote:Also, calling something a "classic" and then saying that its impact is diminished because of imitators is oxymoronic. Things are considered classics because they withstand cheap imitation, the test of time, the constantly shifting tastes of the mass market, and so on.
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Nov 6, 2015 03:43
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So don't make it scary. Make it fun or interesting. Make the audience fear for the character's safety, rather than the actual threat. Like, who honestly thinks The Walking Dead is a scary show? What about zombies, as portrayed in that show, is in any way scary? I'd say it's not. But I will say the show does one thing right. It makes the audience (who like bad writing) care about (bad) characters, and that makes the zombies an actual threat. Do that with the alien. Because there is weirdo's like me who watched Alien and and Blues Clues during the same age period. The Alien has never been scary to me. And it never will.
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Nov 6, 2015 04:50
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I'm not opposed to doing something new with it. I would just like them to do something new with it.
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Nov 6, 2015 05:30
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So, reading through part of this thread and recently having rewatched Alien and Aliens I might have a go at watching Alien 3 for the first time, which I strangely never have. Now, I really like the original Alien. A huge part of that comes from having watched it as a kid, and it making a huge impact on me in both being really interesting and utterly terrifying. Now despite that, I actually took quite a long time to rewatch it, at least a year or two, because it terrified me so much, and I took even longer to watch Aliens. Now, despite being a 14 or 15 year old when I saw Aliens, which I think should be the ideal age for anyone to be blown away by that movie, I actually did not like it when I watched it. It's kind of hard to put my finger on it, since things have changed since then, but I think it had alot to do with me being very disappointed in that it kind of "ruined" the alien as far as being scary goes. That was a big thing of me since I had been so loving scared of the alien. I also never really cared much for the characters, apart from Ripley and Bishop (I think I liked Bishop alot because Ash the android in the first one kind of freaked me out in an interesting way and I liked how the movie, through Ripley kept you suspicious for a long time about the strange almost-human android), though I guess that might be a later observation that 14 or 15 year old me didn't really think of or articulate. Not liking Aliens I kind of lost interest in watching the rest of the series, even though my friend, whom I had watched the original Alien with, at this point owned the rest of the movies. Hence I never saw 3 or Resurrection. I've since come to actually enjoy Aliens. It's a very well-made and exciting action movie that is very much of its time, and it has very fun creature effects and cool designs and such. I even kind of like how they took the same formula from the first one and made it into an action movie. I still don't think it comes close to the first one as that just has so many things that make it a masterpiece. It's the whole visual representation. From the Nostromo to the alien ship to the eggs and the creatures things feel real I think. The same really with the characters who feel like real people, which I feel heightens the tension and the terror. Ripley isn't a badass action hero in the first movie, she's just a normal person, there's really nothing special about her (not saying her or the others don't have a personality, they all do, but they're not the movie archetypes of Aliens) that ensures she survives while the others don't, I think that makes the movie a whole lot more tense and scary. And then there's the tension, especially the kind of slow burning dread you feel that the alien might be anywhere and how you never get to see too much of it and it will hide in the dark and blend in with the environment (of course if they showed all of it all the time your brain would quickly realize it's just a man in a suit, like in Aliens). I'm still not very interested in watching Alien 3, but since people seem to think it's an interesting movie for a lot of reasons and that the Assembly cut actually makes it a good movie I figure I might as well take 2 hours to watch it. I have watched Prometheus though. Being utterly disinterested in the Alien franchise beyond loving the first movie and coming to enjoy Aliens, I actually had not even really caught wind of it existing until I was invited by some friends to watch it at the cinema. Honestly I can't really say much about it. I remember really like the visuals, it's Ridley Scott again and like Alien he really delivers on that well made believable world stuff. However beyond that I never really felt anything for any of the characters, except that I kind of enjoyed David. It's the android character again for some reason, and I also liked the channeling of Lawrence of Arabia, he also kind of embodied what I think was a theme of the movie I think (wanting to think that your creator had some higher reason for creating you and discovering how this is a lie upon meeting them). But after watching it I had more memories of small dumb things (such as the decision to use old age makeup, 100% DNA match, the convoluted stuff with the goo, hybrid creatures and so on) once I was removed from the amazing visuals. I wasn't hugely disappointed or anything, since I hadn't been anticipating the movie, but it just felt like it fell short of actually being a great movie beyond the amazing visuals, which is unfortunate. e: I'll probably never watch Resurrection unless it comes up in a social setting. I have no real interest in Alien 5, or Prometheus 2 or whatever, but I guess I'll probably end up watching that once I realize that its out. I have no idea what they'll do, but it would be nice if they could manage to combine the amazing visuals with an interesting story that doesn't fall short due to unengaging characters or an unfocused script or whatever. CelticPredator posted:So don't make it scary. Make it fun or interesting. Make the audience fear for the character's safety, rather than the actual threat. Like, who honestly thinks The Walking Dead is a scary show? What about zombies, as portrayed in that show, is in any way scary? I'd say it's not. But I will say the show does one thing right. It makes the audience (who like bad writing) care about (bad) characters, and that makes the zombies an actual threat. Yeah I don't need the alien to be scary anymore. The alien, or whatever is in it, should work to build tension or drama appropriate for the movie. I want to feel something while watching the movie, I want to have something to connect with and draw myself into the movie. Be it dread, caring for characters, whatever works. Randarkman fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 05:40
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Future movies in the franchise should be more like Prometheus which, like Crimson Peak being less of a ghost story than a story with ghosts, was less of an Alien story than a story with Aliens.
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Nov 6, 2015 05:57
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I'd be fine with that.
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Nov 6, 2015 07:19
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You realize how painfully bad Aliens is if you watch it right after Alien. It's fanfiction written by a 13 year old boy. I loved the movie as a kid though.
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Nov 6, 2015 18:37
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White Phosphorus posted:You realize how painfully bad Aliens is if you watch it right after Alien. It's fanfiction written by a 13 year old boy. I loved the movie as a kid though. Aliens is a brilliant action movie and a great sequel that expands on the themes of the first movie while introducing a ton of new ones on its own. On top of that, the action always feel appropriate given the tone of the first movie, and it's incredibly well made on a technical level as well (props, lighting, effects).
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Nov 6, 2015 18:51
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Even if everything in Aliens is poo poo(its not), the scenes with the queen make it a classic regardless. That thing is one of the purest examples of movie magic I can think of, Stan Winston was a goddamn genius.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:34
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Aliens is a very different film from Alien but you really kind of have to struggle to pretend like it's mindless fanfiction. It's extremely cohesive thematically. There are things in the cut content which clarify certain things (Ripley's daughter being a big one here) but you don't need to know Ripley lost her daughter to understand the themes of the story, it just emphasizes the loss and trauma. The major difference in Aliens is that it ends with Ripley overcoming her trauma, forming a new family and moving on with her life. It's a happy ending compared to the more somber ending of Alien but it isn't inappropriately so, the entire film is about it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 19:45 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 19:43
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ImpAtom posted:Aliens is a very different film from Alien Except it's also exactly the same film.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:44
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Lurdiak posted:Except it's also exactly the same film. What? No it isn't. Not even remotely. If Alien is a film about the trauma, Aliens is a film about overcoming the trauma. They are thematically absurdly different films.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:49
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I just mean that the plot structure is almost entirely the same. It's one of those "let's do it again!" sequels.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:51
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Nov 6, 2015 19:54
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Lurdiak posted:I just mean that the plot structure is almost entirely the same. It's one of those "let's do it again!" sequels. No it isn't except in the broadest sense of the word. There are specific beats reused but they are reused as emphasis because the film is about Ripley confronting her trauma again and those beats are surrounded by things which change the context which is why Ripley ends up thematically at a different place than she does before. You can try to go "Well, they go into the hive and then a chestburster emerges, this is the same as when they go into the ship and then a chestburster emerges" but the ideas behind those two are so completely different that claiming the plot structure is the same is silly.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:55
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Lurdiak posted:I just mean that the plot structure is almost entirely the same. It's one of those "let's do it again!" sequels. What does the powerloader fight correspond to in 'Alien'? What scene in Alien parallels the hive ambush? What scene in Aliens parallels Dallas' happy jaunt in the airvent, or Brett looking for the cat and getting mugged?
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Nov 6, 2015 20:32
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Xenomrph posted:It really isn't, at least not in the same way Terminator/T2 is. Maybe if you watch more prometheus you would understand.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:41
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