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So is the significance of "Here's to you" song really just because its a martyrs song? Because I don't really see a hard connection between Nicola and Bart to any MGS characters except for The Boss but the song is never used in her context.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:06
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Shaocaholica posted:So is the significance of "Here's to you" song really just because its a martyrs song? Because I don't really see a hard connection between Nicola and Bart to any MGS characters except for The Boss but the song is never used in her context. Snake and Otacon were supposed to be executed at the end of MGS4 and Hideo Kojima had a great song left over when that got vetoed by everyone else on the project.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:10
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Shaocaholica posted:So is the significance of "Here's to you" song really just because its a martyrs song? Because I don't really see a hard connection between Nicola and Bart to any MGS characters except for The Boss but the song is never used in her context. yes. Just like there's not real connection between Che and Big Boss. Also Kojima really wanted Solid Snake and Otacon to be executed at the end of MGS4, and now he's just using the song anyway because he likes it. edit: I'll just leave this here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVrj9S59u7I
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Nov 5, 2015 19:10
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Nicola and Bart are Miller's missing limbs.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:17
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Snak posted:
Holy poo poo!!
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Nov 5, 2015 19:23
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So is MGS5 at Prometheus level fan plot over analysis yet? I actually liked Prometheus
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Nov 5, 2015 19:24
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Shaocaholica posted:So is MGS5 at Prometheus level fan plot over analysis yet? Way beyond. Prometheus is "See Spot Run" compared to MGSV in terms of bullshit people are overanalyzing. I don't know where you've been, but there are people who are considering breaking and entering into real life buildings in real life because they think hidden messages in a video game told them to. I don't think anything happened like that with Prometheus.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:30
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Probably only because Prometheus took place on an alien planet and it's a lot harder to get there than some New York tenement. ARG fans are pretty crazy, it's not just MGS.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:32
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Snak posted:I don't know where you've been Sigh. The last time I played MGS(4, not counting PW) I was single with no children. I'm a bit late to this show.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:38
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You shouldn't confuse plot analysis with clinical insanity.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:48
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Shaocaholica posted:So is the significance of "Here's to you" song really just because its a martyrs song? Because I don't really see a hard connection between Nicola and Bart to any MGS characters except for The Boss but the song is never used in her context. That's part of it yeah and also it tangentially applies to the totally Guantanamo Bay setting in GZ and how prisoners there are/were treated similarly to Sacco and Vanzetti.
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Nov 5, 2015 19:55
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Colapops posted:Holy poo poo!! PISSSSSS
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Nov 5, 2015 20:35
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Another thing, I really hate how the loving game lacks any emotion whatsoever. Sure, MGS 4 wasn't really that elegant about it, but it was charming. MGS 3 had a good couple of moments tho.
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Nov 5, 2015 20:37
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MGS4 was loving charmless. it asked you to feel bad when Vamp, the shittiest rear end in a top hat monster of the series, was dying for gently caress's sake. That moment just really pissed me off but then again you also were asked the same for Naomi, who really isn't that great of a character either. "snake and otacon executed" is the first I've heard about, though. I'd prefer that over the ridiculous Big Boss biomort resurrection plotdump for half an hour. DLC Inc fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 5, 2015 |
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Nov 5, 2015 21:43
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NeilPerry posted:Another thing, I really hate how the loving game lacks any emotion whatsoever. Sure, MGS 4 wasn't really that elegant about it, but it was charming. MGS 3 had a good couple of moments tho. Phantom Pain has joyful dogs, angry men, and a campy mummy skeleton. It does not lack any emotion whatsoever.
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Nov 5, 2015 21:50
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MinibarMatchman posted:MGS4 was loving charmless. it asked you to feel bad when Vamp, the shittiest rear end in a top hat monster of the series, was dying for gently caress's sake. That moment just really pissed me off but then again you also were asked the same for Naomi, who really isn't that great of a character either. That scene becomes hilarious when you realize Otacon is making mk3 do all those sad gestures and poo poo
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Nov 5, 2015 22:28
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MinibarMatchman posted:MGS4 was loving charmless. it asked you to feel bad when Vamp, the shittiest rear end in a top hat monster of the series, was dying for gently caress's sake. That moment just really pissed me off but then again you also were asked the same for Naomi, who really isn't that great of a character either. I think Kojima's original plan for MGS4 was to have Snake an Otacon do some nasty, terrorist-level poo poo, so the end of the game would have them both turn themselves in and they'd be executed.
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Nov 5, 2015 22:31
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Surlaw posted:Phantom Pain has joyful dogs, angry men, and a campy mummy skeleton. It does not lack any emotion whatsoever. Unfortunately the emotional heart of the series, Ocelot, sounds like he's on extra-strength NyQuil.
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Nov 5, 2015 22:34
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RZApublican posted:Unfortunately the emotional heart of the series, Ocelot, sounds like he's on extra-strength NyQuil. Hypnosis makes you drowzy.
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Nov 6, 2015 01:56
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ChaosArgate posted:I think Kojima's original plan for MGS4 was to have Snake an Otacon do some nasty, terrorist-level poo poo, so the end of the game would have them both turn themselves in and they'd be executed. The actual plot of MGS4 is nothing like that. Was there a huge story change mid production? I mean, they commissioned the song so I'm guessing they weren't just in the development phase. Obviously MGS4 is a monster of a game as far as content is concerned so I can't imagine changing things too much mid production.
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Nov 6, 2015 06:23
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Snak posted:I just realized that's literally the mechanism through which they gave Venom all of Big Boss's memories. Because you've played the other games. Yeah but also this was the plot of mgs2
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Nov 6, 2015 09:04
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Shaocaholica posted:The actual plot of MGS4 is nothing like that. Was there a huge story change mid production? I mean, they commissioned the song so I'm guessing they weren't just in the development phase. Obviously MGS4 is a monster of a game as far as content is concerned so I can't imagine changing things too much mid production. I actually think most of the story was the same, they just ended up being shot at the end as scapegoats. What came between Kojima and his vision was the staff, actually. They didn't like it.
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Nov 6, 2015 09:28
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I'm glad, because that's kind of dumb.
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Nov 6, 2015 10:04
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:I'm glad, because that's kind of dumb. A lot better than "We will live together forever happily and I will be your best friend and tell your story forever". Also dad cemetary hug.
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Nov 6, 2015 18:27
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Vic Boss posted:A lot better than "We will live together forever happily and I will be your best friend and tell your story forever". Also dad cemetary hug. Actually CQC hug was the best and it's a drat shame Venom can't do it to his soldiers.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:43
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Otacon and Snake being bros and living together happily is the true canon ending to metal gear. 
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Nov 6, 2015 19:49
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Vic Boss posted:A lot better than "We will live together forever happily and I will be your best friend and tell your story forever". Also dad cemetary hug. Snake and Otacon voluntarily submitted themselves to execution after saving the world would have been really stupid. Big Boss's neverending speech was not great but Snake getting to live out his last months a free man with Cipher/Outer Heaven/The Patriots put to bed forever was a really nice bittersweet ending for the character. Kojima just really could have done with a competent editor for MGS4 ...
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Nov 6, 2015 19:59
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Err, what exactly did Snake and Otacon do in MGS4 worthy of execution? Scapegoats for what Liquid did? Why do they need a scapegoat in the first place? Its not like Operation Snake Eater.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:10
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In my march to clear all side objectives and S rank every mission last week, I cleared both 49 and 50 on the first try with all objectives and all side objectives.  I told my wife and my cats and they dont care
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Nov 6, 2015 20:14
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Shaocaholica posted:Err, what exactly did Snake and Otacon do in MGS4 worthy of execution? Scapegoats for what Liquid did? Why do they need a scapegoat in the first place? Its not like Operation Snake Eater. They didn't do anything worthy of execution, because the story was changed.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:27
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assault on the elderly
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Nov 6, 2015 20:49
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MinibarMatchman posted:read a neogaf thread about how "mgsv is the worst mgs ever" and now I think I contracted eyeball cancer Personally I do think MGSV is the worst Metal Gear Solid game ever. But only because all the other games are so good.
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Nov 6, 2015 21:04
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Shaocaholica posted:Err, what exactly did Snake and Otacon do in MGS4 worthy of execution? Scapegoats for what Liquid did? Why do they need a scapegoat in the first place? Its not like Operation Snake Eater. I always assumed they were ruffling a lot of feathers while doing their Philanthropy shtick. edit: Quote is not edit, drat it
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Nov 6, 2015 21:05
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If you removed the bit about Sunny altering the FOXALIVE virus to spare infrastructure, MGS4's ending is a Tracer Tong ending. The implosion of society might be worth executing people over.
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Nov 6, 2015 21:07
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Shaocaholica posted:Err, what exactly did Snake and Otacon do in MGS4 worthy of execution? Scapegoats for what Liquid did? Why do they need a scapegoat in the first place? Its not like Operation Snake Eater. Treason is an executable offense, which they were arguably already guilty of by the start of MGS2.
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Nov 6, 2015 21:31
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it's kind of hosed up to realize solid snake was kind of used by the Patriots in MGS, MGS2, AND MGS4 so essentially all he accomplished was loving up the plans of Ocelot, the real hero who desperately tried to break the ties from the Patriots.
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Nov 6, 2015 21:33
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MinibarMatchman posted:it's kind of hosed up to realize solid snake was kind of used by the Patriots in MGS, MGS2, AND MGS4 so essentially all he accomplished was loving up the plans of Ocelot, the real hero who desperately tried to break the ties from the Patriots. Ocelot was just trying to build Outer Heaven 12.0, if he's have got his way it'd be straight back to 'another day in a war without end' forever. The real heroes I think(?) were Sunny and Maomi who developed FOXALIVE, Snake as always served as a delivery mechanism, which is still pretty significant as there's no way MG mk.2 could have made it onto Arsenal Gear by itself
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Nov 6, 2015 21:53
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Ocelot was just trying to build Outer Heaven 12.0, if he's have got his way it'd be straight back to 'another day in a war without end' forever. The real heroes I think(?) were Sunny and Maomi who developed FOXALIVE, Snake as always served as a delivery mechanism, which is still pretty significant as there's no way MG mk.2 could have made it onto Arsenal Gear by itself funnily enough this makes Snake more of a cypher than Cypher. Basically a delivery vector for Foxdie/Alive in both games, and was essentially your cooler double in MGS2. But of course we all know Solidus was the real hero. Is there really any other explanation about Solidus other than "yeah we made a third one" because there was such a big deal made about Eli and David and the super baby bullshit, but then they go ahead and just make this other guy anyway with seemingly perfect genetic levels? If EVA was the birthmother for Solid and Liquid then what's the story about Solidus, all I really understand is that instead of sending him across the globe like David/Eli, he is kept close to the Patriots to the point where he's the President. Sure Solid gets entrusted with killing his rogue father and Liquid gets put into FOXHOUND but Solidus comes out of nowhere.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:05
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When was the fact that Solid is a clone of BB first mentioned? MGS1? When is it mentioned that Solid's given name is David? What about Eli?
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Nov 6, 2015 22:09
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The 'clone' part was mentioned in MGS1 but him finding out that he was Big Boss's 'son' was retconned into MG1/2, he tells Meryl his real name at the end of the same game, and Eli isn't revealed until MGSV.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:18
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