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Plavski
Feb 1, 2006

I could be a revolutionary
I roll Glint/Mallyx as Shiro is lame as gently caress.

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boho
Oct 4, 2011

on fire and loving it

ItBurns posted:

Glint is far better, not to mention that it spreads the boons to your entire party. You'll find this out when you fully unlock the class. Switching between the two isn't a bad idea if you're solo though.

You only swap to Shiro for Impossible Odds and Jade Daggers or whatever, then right back into Glint. Are you saying that just remaining in Glint is better?

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Glint/Shiro presses about as many buttons as most non-Engineer classes that I've played. You just don't spam them.

You start in Glint, throw up all your facets except for the elite. When you run out of energy, which will be pretty quickly, you switch to Shiro. You then use your heal and impossible odds. Throw in sword 3 when you can. When out of energy you switch back to Glint and repeat. So total its about 9 buttons not counting using the swiftness facet active right before losing energy in Glint for the AoE damage, using the elite facet to break bars, using offhand skills, or using Shiro skills when needed for movement or a stunbreak.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde

Plavski posted:

I roll Glint/Mallyx as Shiro is lame as gently caress.

How's that hold up in PVE stuff?


boho posted:

You only swap to Shiro for Impossible Odds and Jade Daggers or whatever, then right back into Glint. Are you saying that just remaining in Glint is better?

Always be dancing between your legends when your energy runs out. Always. I think you also want to graduate upto knowing when the other legend's cooldowns are up and switch then, but that's something you'll learn by play. This is how I play my rev currently and I don't pretend to be good. On the whole, I spend more time in Glint then Shiro.

Totbot posted:

Glint/Shiro presses about as many buttons as most non-Engineer classes that I've played. You just don't spam them.

You start in Glint, throw up all your facets except for the elite. When you run out of energy, which will be pretty quickly, you switch to Shiro. You then use your heal and impossible odds. Throw in sword 3 when you can. When out of energy you switch back to Glint and repeat. So total its about 9 buttons not counting using the swiftness facet active right before losing energy in Glint for the AoE damage, using the elite facet to break bars, using offhand skills, or using Shiro skills when needed for movement or a stunbreak.

Dont forget, Shiro's charge follows up with a few unblockable attacks. Which I assume are also good for the infamous SMOKE DOGS. :dukedog:

where the red fern gropes
Aug 24, 2011


its actually more dps to use dwarf form with the hammers because you can keep your boon duration facet up and use sigil of strength and the might-on-boon trait to mini phalanx your whole party

thanks alot assbag
Feb 18, 2005

BLUUUUHHHHHH

Thyrork posted:

How's that hold up in PVE stuff?

I run a Glint/Mallyx Viper's build in PvE and it's super fun. Enemies get tons of conditions applied to them pretty quickly, and they just melt. Mallyx's torment well actually becomes a good way to get around and to torment enemies chasing after you.

ItBurns
Jul 24, 2007

boho posted:

You only swap to Shiro for Impossible Odds and Jade Daggers or whatever, then right back into Glint. Are you saying that just remaining in Glint is better?

If you don't care about maintaining the boons because you have extra duration or someone else is providing them then swapping to Shiro is fine, something that I explicitly pointed out. If you have a Mesmer giving you quickness and are the only person handing out fury/might then it's pointless to switch. If you have a warrior giving might and fury and no mesmer then it makes more sense to use IO on cooldown.

Either way, don't be such a pedant.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde

thanks alot assbag posted:

I run a Glint/Mallyx Viper's build in PvE and it's super fun. Enemies get tons of conditions applied to them pretty quickly, and they just melt. Mallyx's torment well actually becomes a good way to get around and to torment enemies chasing after you.

I keep hearing that Viper's alittle busted, so when its not that'll be even better. :haw:

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Thyrork posted:

I keep hearing that Viper's alittle busted, so when its not that'll be even better. :haw:

Wasn't that because Expertise was bugged? Or is there something else wrong with it? Because supposedly the Concentration/Expertise bug is fixed now.

Thyrork
Apr 21, 2010

"COME PLAY MECHS M'LANCER."

Or at least use Retrograde Mini's to make cool mechs and fantasy stuff.

:awesomelon:
Slippery Tilde

Harrow posted:

Wasn't that because Expertise was bugged? Or is there something else wrong with it? Because supposedly the Concentration/Expertise bug is fixed now.

Yeah, and good to know!

ItBurns
Jul 24, 2007

Thyrork posted:

How's that hold up in PVE stuff?

Condition rev is Not Good (TM) but it's PvE so whatever.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


ItBurns posted:

Condition rev is Not Good (TM) but it's PvE so whatever.

Sure it is. You just have to be on top of blasting your fields as often as possible and herding fools.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

So from what I'm seeing in the Reddit thread about DnT's fancy meta builds: apparently condition builds are the poo poo in high-level Fractals. They didn't just give enemies piles of health--they also raised their toughness into the sky.

If that's the case, I don't really like it. I'm all for incentivizing condition damage builds, but it should be more like: most enemies go down at about the same rate from condition and direct damage; some enemies are heavily armored and die faster to condition damage; some enemies are resistant to or can cleanse conditions and are easier to kill with direct damage. The idea of making everything heavily armored to incentivize condition builds just seems like a dick move, especially in the content that actually does need ascended gear.

Vermain
Sep 5, 2006



They apparently also completely dumpstered Fractal drop rates in the process. At this point, it really is starting to feel like ArenaNet's being pressured to churn a bigger profit and their way of doing that is by incentivizing more gem -> gold purchases. I don't like it one single bit.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Colin did suggest that they want to "look at" and "iterate on" fractal rewards and that they're not happy with how they are right now, so they might've just miscalculated.

If they want to incentivize gem -> gold purchases then that needs to have a much better exchange rate than it does. Right now, even if I were tempted, it would feel like a even more of a rip-off than it normally would. It's like $40 for ~250 gold? Nah, man.

Hefty
Jun 11, 2008

I'm glad I'm not the only one that's finding Revenant a little dull. I really want to like it, but I've tried a few builds and none of them really do it for me.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

What hurts Revenant for me is that I really don't like the main-hand sword's autoattack. The way the animation matches up with when the damage occurs just feels... off, and it feels even more like swinging a wiffle bat than any other melee weapon. When I do level Revenant, it'll be pretty much purely for Herald. I love providing tons of buffs so the Glint facets really speak to me.

My DPS will be poo poo, though, because gently caress Shiro and gently caress sword.

CLAM DOWN
Feb 13, 2007




Vermain posted:

At this point, it really is starting to feel like ArenaNet's being pressured to churn a bigger profit and their way of doing that is by incentivizing more gem -> gold purchases. I don't like it one single bit.

It's been rumoured for a while that Anet will split from NCSoft, and they are even publishing under their own name name. I wouldn't chalk it up to them being pressured by an external factor to change their game, it seems more like a culture shift at Anet itself.

Amante
Jan 3, 2007

...


They did absorb a bunch of WildStar people a while back. Seems to have encouraged a subtle shift towards needlessly grindy or untuned things so far.

tarbrush
Feb 7, 2011

ALL ABOARD THE SCOTLAND HYPE TRAIN!

CHOO CHOO

Harrow posted:

Colin did suggest that they want to "look at" and "iterate on" fractal rewards and that they're not happy with how they are right now, so they might've just miscalculated.

If they want to incentivize gem -> gold purchases then that needs to have a much better exchange rate than it does. Right now, even if I were tempted, it would feel like a even more of a rip-off than it normally would. It's like $40 for ~250 gold? Nah, man.

I make 7g a day purely by logging into my flax farming alts. There would have to be a dramatic change in prices for me to even consider gem->gold stuff.

ItBurns
Jul 24, 2007
I make 40g per hour working from the comfort of my own home. Send me 40g for more information on this once in a lifetime money making opportunity!

LITERALLY A BIRD
Sep 27, 2008

I knew you were trouble
when you flew in

Vermain posted:

They apparently also completely dumpstered Fractal drop rates in the process. At this point, it really is starting to feel like ArenaNet's being pressured to churn a bigger profit and their way of doing that is by incentivizing more gem -> gold purchases. I don't like it one single bit.

Fractals are now one island instead of three and fifteen minutes rather than fifty. I don't really think it's that surprising they nerfed the rewards. Disappointing, but not surprising.

malhavok
Jan 18, 2013

Harrow posted:

Colin did suggest that they want to "look at" and "iterate on" fractal rewards and that they're not happy with how they are right now, so they might've just miscalculated.

If they want to incentivize gem -> gold purchases then that needs to have a much better exchange rate than it does. Right now, even if I were tempted, it would feel like a even more of a rip-off than it normally would. It's like $40 for ~250 gold? Nah, man.

You are probably better off buying black lion keys for claim tickets and selling the weapon skins for gold.

siddy
Jul 27, 2010

Harrow posted:

What hurts Revenant for me is that I really don't like the main-hand sword's autoattack. The way the animation matches up with when the damage occurs just feels... off, and it feels even more like swinging a wiffle bat than any other melee weapon. When I do level Revenant, it'll be pretty much purely for Herald. I love providing tons of buffs so the Glint facets really speak to me.

My DPS will be poo poo, though, because gently caress Shiro and gently caress sword.

I think the Rev sword has one of the highest DPS rating for auto attack. I regularly carve necros down in PvP using autoattack and Impossible Odds. I may be the odd one out though for using the hammer as my secondary weapon. I find the AoE attacks are nice, and interrupts can be really handy. Plus, I don't mind hitting people for 6.5k using Hammer 2 on a 2 second cooldown.

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

Fractals are now one island instead of three and fifteen minutes rather than fifty. I don't really think it's that surprising they nerfed the rewards. Disappointing, but not surprising.

I just did my first Fractal run in a long time. It was fast, easy enough and interesting.
It used to be a huge slog through enemies with a billion HP but I think I like them.

mike12345
Jul 14, 2008

"Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries."





Hefty posted:

I'm glad I'm not the only one that's finding Revenant a little dull. I really want to like it, but I've tried a few builds and none of them really do it for me.

Yeah I don't like all the animations, it's too show off and gets annoying. Maybe some ult on 10min cd gets something exorbitant, but not every little fart.

Generic Octopus
Mar 27, 2010
I like Shiro Rev because when playing thief I've always wanted Withdraw, Unhindered Combatant, and Physical Supremacy/Feline Grace all on one utility skill.

Cyron
Mar 10, 2014

by zen death robot
Ok I keep hearing good things about minion master reaper, any one have a good spec for it?

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013

Cyron posted:

Ok I keep hearing good things about minion master reaper, any one have a good spec for it?

Quorum did a big post about his minion master reaper build:

Quorum posted:

So I was asked what I'm currently running on my ratpeople minion-master reaper, so here it is:



In short, specialize in:
Death Magic, taking the top choice each time.
- Flesh of the Master makes both you and your minions tougher, and it scales your toughness bonus based on how many minions you have, and as we will see, the idea is to end up with all the minions.
- Necromantic Corruption buffs your minions' damage, and also lets them cure your conditions! This is very good, as you will have lots of minions.
- Death Nova makes your minions kamikaze when they die, which is way better than them just splatting. It also summons MORE MINIONS when you kill enemies. This is good, because more minions means more dead enemies.

Blood Magic, taking the bottom choice each time.
- Blood Bond lets you siphon health from your enemies when you make them bleed. This is good, because your staff 2 (with its very low cooldown) inflicts lots of bleeding in an AOE!
- Vampiric Presence gives both you and your allies health-siphoning powers whenever you hit foes. Your minions count as allies. Now your minions are healing themselves.
- Transfusion gives you extra healing on one of your shroud skills, but to be honest this choice is less important and if you really like one of the other choices you can probably swap out.

Reaping, duh. Go with 1/1/whatever you want.
- Augury of Death lets you shout more, and makes your shouts siphon even more health. This is amazing because you will be shouting Rise! at literally every occasion.
- Soul Eater makes Gravedigger (your GS 2) faster, and it also siphons health. Notice a pattern? With this reduction, if you hit a low-health enemy, you will siphon its health and also be able to gravedigger again immediately. You are now a health-siphoning gravedigger-spamming monster.

As for weapons, I go with Greatsword/Staff. Greatsword provides amazing melee-range damage, and the Gravedigger-spam thing is just godlike. Staff provides you with AOE support and damage capabilities, a condition clear, and Mark of Blood, which makes your enemies bleed (triggering the signet of vampirism thing) and applies regeneration to your allies. Remember that your minions will be in a cluster around your enemies, so they'll all get healed on top of the health-siphoning they're now doing. Go wild.

For utilities, I have slotted:
- Rise!, which is literally the best thing forever. It summons shambling horrors, 1 plus an additional one for every enemy in range. These horrors are not just adorable, they also come in huge numbers, stacking your toughness into the sky. Not just that, they tank for you, taking half of incoming damage as long as they're attacking a foe! You love these guys. They are your best friends. Hammer this constantly, especially if you're in range of lots of enemies. Remember, because of that trait in Reaping, this shout will also heal you!
- Bone Minions, because there's two of them, which is the main edge over Shadow Fiend. Plus you can blow them up for a blast finisher.
- Bone Fiend, because he hits hard and at range.
- For healing skill, Blood Fiend, because it's a surprisingly effective constant heal that also deals damage and adds to your toughness, but you can slot a more active heal if you really feel like you need it (you won't),
- For elite, Flesh Golem, because fleeeeesh goooooolem.

Strategically, what you're mostly doing is running around with all your minions. When you see a big group of enemies, run into the middle of them, pop Rise!, then back off and provide support with your staff's AOE Marks while your minions soften them up. Then, dash in and get in the thick of things with your greatsword. Wreck face. Apply Reaper Form as necessary, rinse, repeat.

Tivac
Feb 18, 2003

No matter how things may seem to change, never forget who you are

Amante posted:

They did absorb a bunch of WildStar people a while back. Seems to have encouraged a subtle shift towards needlessly grindy or untuned things so far.

This rumor keeps getting repeated but I don't think it's true. At the very least "a bunch" is hugely overselling it.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Tivac posted:

This rumor keeps getting repeated but I don't think it's true. At the very least "a bunch" is hugely overselling it.

The shift in game design probably just helps feed the rumor too.

Cyron
Mar 10, 2014

by zen death robot

Quorum posted:

So I was asked what I'm currently running on my ratpeople minion-master reaper, so here it is:

this is a cool build, what stats do you recommend? conditions, power or a bit more defense?

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Inzombiac posted:

I just did my first Fractal run in a long time. It was fast, easy enough and interesting.
It used to be a huge slog through enemies with a billion HP but I think I like them.

Sadly, it starts to get to that "huge slog through enemies with a billion HP" thing again at high Fractal levels. This might be part of the balance changes that they've talked about wanting to look at, though.

I did run some lower-level Fractals yesterday and had a blast, though. They're genuinely good PvE content, they just need some retuning.

xZAOx posted:

The shift in game design probably just helps feed the rumor too.

I honestly don't know if I'd say the game design has actually shifted all that meaningfully. The new zones are right in-line with what we've seen from Dry Top and Silverwastes, and, while they're full of challenging enemies, they do a decent job rewarding short bursts of play (except for Dragon's Stand, probably). The new elite specs are fun and cool. Fractals genuinely are more accessible now, though their reward structure and high-level balance are out of whack (but that's nothing new for ArenaNet and is something they've acknowledged as not quite how they wanted it). There are even some unique weapon skins that are available as drops with not-horrible droprates in specific HoT areas, not just from the claim tickets or from the Mystic Toilet--not a ton, but there are some, and that's a good step in the right direction.

Like, that's not to say there aren't problems (precursor collections are just as grindy as buying them from the TP, or there's too much emphasis on Black Lion Claim Tickets for cool weapon skins, for example), but all the problems are just the same kind of problems that have been there for years now. We're just re-noticing them because there's an expansion and we (or at least I) had hoped things would be more different than they are.

Harrow fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Nov 6, 2015

Reclines Obesily
Jul 24, 2000



Hey Moona!
Slippery Tilde
That Carbine/Wildstar thing is something I posted and was complete bollocks. The grindy stuff anet has put in the game will get iterated on as it always has.

Speaking of complete bollocks, The Floor Is lava?



This was by far the hardest thing I've ever done in the gw2. Interacting with 50 objects within 2 minutes with a 250ms ping, half of which send you into the air was fun!

Inzombiac
Mar 19, 2007

PARTY ALL NIGHT

EAT BRAINS ALL DAY


Solumin posted:

Quorum did a big post about his minion master reaper build:

Blood Magic is very good for keeping your minions alive. If this isn't an issue for you, swap it out for Spite and take every trait that procs on enemy health. Alternatively, Shroud traits are EXTREMELY useful for Reaper.

xZAOx
Sep 6, 2004
PORKCHOP SANDWICHES

Harrow posted:

Sadly, it starts to get to that "huge slog through enemies with a billion HP" thing again at high Fractal levels. This might be part of the balance changes that they've talked about wanting to look at, though.


I honestly don't know if I'd say the game design has actually shifted all that meaningfully. The new zones are right in-line with what we've seen from Dry Top and Silverwastes, and, while they're full of challenging enemies, they do a decent job rewarding short bursts of play (except for Dragon's Stand, probably). The new elite specs are fun and cool. Fractals genuinely are more accessible now, though their reward structure and high-level balance are out of whack (but that's nothing new for ArenaNet and is something they've acknowledged as not quite how they wanted it). There are even some unique weapon skins that are available as drops with not-horrible droprates in specific HoT areas, not just from the claim tickets or from the Mystic Toilet--not a ton, but there are some, and that's a good step in the right direction.

Like, that's not to say there aren't problems (precursor collections are just as grindy as buying them from the TP, or there's too much emphasis on Black Lion Claim Tickets for cool weapon skins, for example), but all the problems are just the same kind of problems that have been there for years now. We're just re-noticing them because there's an expansion and we (or at least I) had hoped things would be more different than they are.

That's true, and good points. Their first new form of progression being so grindy though really overshadows a lot of things. Also the inclusion of raids helps the rumor too (even though we haven't seen yet how they'll play out).

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

xZAOx posted:

That's true, and good points. Their first new form of progression being so grindy though really overshadows a lot of things. Also the inclusion of raids helps the rumor too (even though we haven't seen yet how they'll play out).

Yeah, that's true. I'd forgotten the Mastery system's grindiness.

I think if they'd, like, halved the amount of XP required for the tier 1 and 2 Masteries things would be better. In general, those are the only ones (after a patch) that we need for the story. Everything after that is sorta just neat to have and/or required for map completion, which I can sort of understand if they want to slow us down on a little bit. (I don't necessarily agree, but I don't think it's incomprehensible either.) I'm comfortable knowing that I won't get Ley Line Gliding for a good while, but it's kind of nice to think that I might actually get a cool new ability a month from now. It helps that they're account-bound, at least.

Quorum
Sep 24, 2014

REMIND ME AGAIN HOW THE LITTLE HORSE-SHAPED ONES MOVE?

Cyron posted:

this is a cool build, what stats do you recommend? conditions, power or a bit more defense?

I run mine with Berserker, and the enemies just melt under the onslaught of a thousand tiny minion attacks. If you're having trouble staying alive still and want to be literally the hardest to kill, Soldiers would probably be a cool option too. Reaper is typically recommended for power builds; I've not seen many condi reaper builds floating around.

Trogdos!
Jul 11, 2009

A DRAGON POKEMAN
well technically a water/flying type


Five hundo gems.

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Generic Octopus
Mar 27, 2010

Harrow posted:

Yeah, that's true. I'd forgotten the Mastery system's grindiness.

Yea, I wouldn't care about the grindy nature of masteries if they didn't gate the story arbitrarily. I mean, it's done now and I'll never have to re-do them on alts, but first time around it's a little jarring to have the momentum of the plot killed by "go get 1 mil xp to continue" sort of stuff.

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