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Sky Shadowing posted:The 'clone' part was mentioned in MGS1 but him finding out that he was Big Boss's 'son' was retconned into MG1/2, he tells Meryl his real name at the end of the same game, and Eli isn't revealed until MGSV. Thanks. Also, WTF with these character bios quote:Early life and career
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Nov 6, 2015 22:20
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Shaocaholica posted:Thanks. I mean, that second part is right in the actual dialogue of MGS1.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:23
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Snak posted:I mean, that second part is right in the actual dialogue of MGS1. Well that was long time ago. I guess I just glossed over it as a teen. But gently caress these characters have weird pasts. I mean, given the context of MGS5 its not a big deal I guess but it just seems like everyone is hosed up. Is there no one normal?
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Nov 6, 2015 22:25
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MinibarMatchman posted:funnily enough this makes Snake more of a cypher than Cypher. Basically a delivery vector for Foxdie/Alive in both games, and was essentially your cooler double in MGS2. But of course we all know Solidus was the real hero. Kojima didn't really know what he had made when he threw the line in at the end of MGS1. Remember, prior to that he had made well liked games that were, at best, marginally successful, and they probably didn't expect the franchise to explode. Shaocaholica posted:When was the fact that Solid is a clone of BB first mentioned? MGS1? When is it mentioned that Solid's given name is David? What about Eli? Clone revelations don't come out until MGS1. David is given as his name at the end of 1. LS is called Eli in 5.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:26
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Shaocaholica posted:Well that was long time ago. I guess I just glossed over it as a teen. But gently caress these characters have weird pasts. I mean, given the context of MGS5 its not a big deal I guess but it just seems like everyone is hosed up. Is there no one normal? Literally every character in the series is tied up in the machinations of Illuminati world domination bullshit, and more than a few of them are tied up in said bullshit since before they were born. Even without a crazy pervert writing the series, hosed-uppedness would be the norm.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:28
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Bushiz posted:David is given as his name at the end of 1. I guess this is just a shallow gimmick related to David Hayter?
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Nov 6, 2015 22:28
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Shaocaholica posted:I guess this is just a shallow gimmick related to David Hayter? You mean 1998-noname David Hayter? Yeah, sure. It's really just a happy coincidence.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:31
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Bushiz posted:Kojima didn't really know what he had made when he threw the line in at the end of MGS1. Remember, prior to that he had made well liked games that were, at best, marginally successful, and they probably didn't expect the franchise to explode. I figured as much. A shitload about guys like Zero, even Big Boss himself, was retconned over and over as the series got larger. A lot of it is insane but at the same time it's kind of astounding how the writers found ways to keep tying things together. poo poo, even the "Big Boss dies but still comes back in MG2" plothole was filled with the equally insane ending to MGSV. It's really just staggering how broad this poo poo was created.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:31
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Shaocaholica posted:I guess this is just a shallow gimmick related to David Hayter? Nope, a reference to Dave Forrest, a character in Policenauts who is the partner of a character in that game named Meryl who is also in a top secret military unit that is named FOXHOUND, but that's just because Hideo doesn't have a lot of ideas.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:34
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MinibarMatchman posted:I figured as much. A shitload about guys like Zero, even Big Boss himself, was retconned over and over as the series got larger. A lot of it is insane but at the same time it's kind of astounding how the writers found ways to keep tying things together. poo poo, even the "Big Boss dies but still comes back in MG2" plothole was filled with the equally insane ending to MGSV. It's really just staggering how broad this poo poo was created. What's actually amazing is how very little was actually retconned, and how much was just filled in with a bunch of crazy bullshit. The entire series is a giant exercise in "Yes, And"
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Nov 6, 2015 22:36
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Shaocaholica posted:I guess this is just a shallow gimmick related to David Hayter? it's more about biblical names, David and Eli. It's partially why people were even more certain that Eli was Liquid, even though it was so obvious that this blond boy in the Middle East / Africa at this particular age could only be one man. I wonder what "George Sears" means, if anything. Only thing I can get from it is from St. George who fought a dragon (Cypher) and from Sears which loosely means "Victory."
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Nov 6, 2015 22:36
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Bushiz posted:Nope, a reference to Dave Forrest, a character in Policenauts who is the partner of a character in that game named Meryl who is also in a top secret military unit that is named FOXHOUND, but that's just because Hideo doesn't have a lot of ideas. And in the Otacon ending it's a 2001 reference with Dave and Hal. Hideo Kojima has never given gently caress one about the English side of Metal Gear.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:37
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MinibarMatchman posted:it's more about biblical names, David and Eli. Still doesn't make sense though. Biblical David and Eli aren't brothers. Why even bother drawing the correlation or am I missing something?
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Nov 6, 2015 22:41
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Shaocaholica posted:Still doesn't make sense though. Biblical David and Eli aren't brothers. Why even bother drawing the correlation or am I missing something? Kojima probably watched The Book of Eli at some point while he was working on the game and thought the name sounded cool.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:49
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Crappy Jack posted:Kojima probably watched The Book of Eli at some point while he was working on the game and thought the name sounded cool. This is almost certainly it. Why do you think there's a scene where Miller takes his sunglasses off revealing that he is blind?
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Nov 6, 2015 22:50
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Crappy Jack posted:Kojima probably watched The Book of Eli at some point while he was working on the game and thought the name sounded cool. On a similar note, I do wonder if his idea for having Snake and Octacon executed was mostly based off of hearing 'Here's to You' and thinking that'd be a really cool way to use the song
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Nov 6, 2015 22:55
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"_______ would be really cool" is Kojima's entire creative process, I think.
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Nov 6, 2015 23:02
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A Steampunk Gent posted:On a similar note, I do wonder if his idea for having Snake and Octacon executed was mostly based off of hearing 'Here's to You' and thinking that'd be a really cool way to use the song He wanted to do that at the end of mgs2, so probably not. I still think Snake and Otacon getting court marshalled after saving the world would have been a great ending.
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Nov 6, 2015 23:19
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MinibarMatchman posted:I wonder what "George Sears" means, if anything. Only thing I can get from it is from St. George who fought a dragon (Cypher) and from Sears which loosely means "Victory." Alternatively, maybe his first name is just George and Sears is Big Boss' actual last name 
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Nov 7, 2015 00:15
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Confession: In MGS2, I always put Jack Sears into the name entry at the beginning of the game even if MGS4 invalidates it.
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Nov 7, 2015 00:37
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In It For The Tank posted:Confession: In MGS2, I always put Jack Sears into the name entry at the beginning of the game even if MGS4 invalidates it. What does MGS4 say to invalidate it?
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Nov 7, 2015 01:00
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The implication of the scene is that Raiden stops being "Jack" if you put "Jack" as the name on his dogtags because he declares he'll choose his own name instead of the player's, and in-universe you can justify him throwing away the name Solidus that gave him if you put "Jack" on the dogtags, but he still goes by Jack in MGS4 and beyond. *fun fact: Rose never calls Raiden 'Jack" in her last appearance in MGS2, even though it's basically a verbal tic for her, so it works.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:20
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Speaking of MGS2, when the colonel AI and Rose are speaking to Raiden at the end, is Rose also an AI there or is it the real Rose? Was that ever explained in 4?
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Nov 7, 2015 02:29
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SeANMcBAY posted:Speaking of MGS2, when the colonel AI and Rose are speaking to Raiden at the end, is Rose also an AI there or is it the real Rose? Was that ever explained in 4? After Arsenal Gear crashes into New York the Rose that talks with you is an AI. Oddly enough, this was one of the few things that 4 didn't try to explain.
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Nov 7, 2015 02:54
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I think it's reasonable to think that Rose was the real Rose until she tries to tell Raiden that she's pregnant in Arsenal Gear. From that point forward until she reappears at the end of the game, the Rose you speak to is an AI.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:48
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That makes sense in the context of MGS4, but looking at MGS2 in isolation was it probably intended that Rose was always an AI?
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Nov 7, 2015 03:52
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Nakar posted:That makes sense in the context of MGS4, but looking at MGS2 in isolation was it probably intended that Rose was always an AI? It's one of those things that was never really going to be explained and just left up to player interpretation.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:55
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Well she meets Raiden in person in New York City at the end, though that scene has always seemed a little surreal to me.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:09
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Crappy Jack posted:Kojima probably watched The Book of Eli at some point while he was working on the game and thought the name sounded cool. With all the Moby Dick it's probably a reference to Elijah, even though Eli doesn't serve the same function in MGSV as Elijah did in Moby Dick.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:17
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Raxivace posted:Well she meets Raiden in person in New York City at the end, though that scene has always seemed a little surreal to me.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:51
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:that scene is way too weird to be taken literally. Snake goes insane and turns into a parrot I kinda blocked out what happened at the end of MGS2 when I played it in high school. All I remember was fighting a bunch of Rays and like gently caress this VR mission raided bullshit. Then I'm on a roof fighting doctor octopus and its kinda of real I guess because there isn't any VR poo poo.
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Nov 7, 2015 07:44
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MinibarMatchman posted:read a neogaf thread about how "mgsv is the worst mgs ever" and now I think I contracted eyeball cancer There is a huge backlash against this game from hardcore MGS fanatics who bought it and played straight through to the true ending in like 2 days poo poo like "this game is 80% filler" because they forgot what gameplay is
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Nov 7, 2015 10:22
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:There is a huge backlash against this game from hardcore MGS fanatics who bought it and played straight through to the true ending in like 2 days MGSV may have pissed off a lot of the hardcore fans, but that's not the only reason I like it.
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Nov 7, 2015 10:34
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Nohman posted:And in the Otacon ending it's a 2001 reference with Dave and Hal. Hideo Kojima has never given gently caress one about the English side of Metal Gear. David Hayter is literally in MGS4 as himself That loving Sned posted:MGSV may have pissed off a lot of the hardcore fans, but that's not the only reason I like it. Yeah as a game this is definitely deserving of GOTY, I'm 100% sure of this. Even stuff like repeating the missions for hard modes made me realize how well parts of this have been designed, and how much of the game can actually be handled without firing a single shot. As a story it literally did not need to exist so I'm not sure what people expected THE AWESOME GHOST fucked around with this message at 10:41 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 10:37
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While I always liked the game, finally taking my butterfly emblem off really made me realize how much Quiet had been holding me back from enjoying the game more completely. I still wish the game had been more well balanced around using her, but I certainly enjoyed replaying missions and stuff even more once she was gone and I had to rely on all other of the bajillion things in my arsenal. The gameplay shines even brighter.
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Nov 7, 2015 10:48
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Shaocaholica posted:I kinda blocked out what happened at the end of MGS2 when I played it in high school. All I remember was fighting a bunch of Rays and like gently caress this VR mission raided bullshit. Then I'm on a roof fighting doctor octopus and its kinda of real I guess because there isn't any VR poo poo. MGS2 is never set in VR
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Nov 7, 2015 11:05
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Here's To You actually makes sense in Ground Zeroes, which is probably why Kojima decided to reuse it.
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Nov 7, 2015 11:08
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Yeah Bro posted:MGS2 is never set in VR Actually it's entirely set in VR. The only part of MGS2 that actually happened is Metal Gear Skateboarding.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:08
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grancheater posted:Actually it's entirely set in VR. The only part of MGS2 that actually happened is Metal Gear Skateboarding. It's both virtual and reality. The patriots have simulated the whole thing, meaning it is virtual, but it is actually materially occurring, so it is reality. This is what the ending concludes. The skateboarding is 100% canon tho.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:14
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THE AWESOME GHOST posted:Yeah as a game this is definitely deserving of GOTY, I'm 100% sure of this. Even stuff like repeating the missions for hard modes made me realize how well parts of this have been designed, and how much of the game can actually be handled without firing a single shot. The only problem with the gameplay is how hard it's made going back to any of the earlier ones. If they really wanted to tell the story of how Big Boss started Outer Heaven, it should have been handled like Luigi in Paper Mario TTYD, where it's exactly the same adventure but much shittier. While you're working with Ocelot and Quiet, he's got Dirty Duck and Shoot Gunner.
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Nov 8, 2015 00:16
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