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Vib Rib posted:"Wanting to keep a consistent gameplay experience" by removing options is pretty much indistinguishable from modders running their poo poo into the ground because "my vision". Vision is fine and actually very good. Some visions are dumb and worthy of being mocked, but it's not because they are visions - it's simply because they are bad. Without a good vision and direction a mod just becomes a lame hodgepodge of ideas that lacks cohesion and isn't fun.
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Nov 7, 2015 06:39
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Kurr de la Cruz posted:And also the loving chickens. Always the chickens. Ah, memories.    
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Nov 7, 2015 07:11
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:A temporary diversion from vision chat. I can't figure out the whole storage bus->interface->molecular assembler thing in AE2 for keeping basic levels of items in play. Ok, there are a couple different ways to do this. If you want to do it within the network itself, just have an ME Interface, put the item (in the volume you wish to maintain) in the storage field along with the pattern, and it should attempt to maintain that inventory. If you want it to maintain a certain volume of the crafted item in an external inventory (like an ender chest), then you need an export bus and a level emitter. ImpactVector explained it much better below -- with pictures. EricFate fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 07:15
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Taffer posted:Wanting to keep a consistent gameplay experience across servers isn't a bad thing. Might as well stick to vanilla then, considering that modpacks largely change how mods can work with the advent of Minetweaker and co. After delving into Botania a bit myself, I can't see why anyone would want to stay on dayblooms (JFC they are slow) but if someone wants to spam that poo poo in their SSP world and screwing their FPS up go right ahead. I'm currently using an endoflame setup and just dumping out coke coal blocks for the long burn time. What would be a a decent way of making mana beyond that?
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Nov 7, 2015 07:43
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For the record, Vazkii did set the passive wither config to default to on and initially about two days (In-game), later three. This didn't solve the problem.
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Nov 7, 2015 08:01
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I also liked the creepy bar I made where using the statues mod I put all the the players in it with different poses. Also this.
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Nov 7, 2015 08:19
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SugarAddict posted:Yes. And if you have tinker's construct it will also drop the world destroying sword as well. Not according to the changelog. http://botaniamod.net/changelog.php posted:R1.6 177
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Nov 7, 2015 08:38
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Serifina posted:For the record, Vazkii did set the passive wither config to default to on and initially about two days (In-game), later three. This didn't solve the problem.
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Nov 7, 2015 08:59
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Vib Rib posted:What problem did that not solve, exactly? People playing singleplayer and never moving on to active generation, to the point they'd edit the configs and turn off withering? Was that really so common and troublesome the option had to be removed? Large numbers of passive mana generation gobbles up server ticks, creating lag and instability. Technically this would also effect single player, as single player is a server now?  Eitherway, that was the issue. I'm actually curious how far you'd need to go to start feeling the burn of passive mana gen on the server.
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Nov 7, 2015 13:20
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*still playing 1.6.x* I'm having a slight issue with Big Reactors. Every now and again I'll get a "OpenGL has encountered an error: code 8" or some such and it'll just exit to desktop. Is there a workaround for this?
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Nov 7, 2015 13:57
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Thyrork posted:Large numbers of passive mana generation gobbles up server ticks, creating lag and instability. It starts to take a toll at a couple hundred. That doesn't stop people from taking it to a couple thousand.
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Nov 7, 2015 13:57
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Taffer posted:It starts to take a toll at a couple hundred. That doesn't stop people from taking it to a couple thousand.  Jesus christ and this was a legitimate issue enough for Vazkii to get pestered by it enough to crack and do what she did? What in the ever-loving gently caress?Makes me glad in hindsight that the goon servers I've played on adopted a "gently caress with the server and we'll nuke your junk, tia." philosophy.
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Nov 7, 2015 14:21
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Thyrork posted:
like i said before, it sounds really dumb but your reputation as a mod that "kills servers" or otherwise does make a difference though i suspect this wasn't the main motivation behind the change 
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Nov 7, 2015 14:39
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:A temporary diversion from vision chat. I can't figure out the whole storage bus->interface->molecular assembler thing in AE2 for keeping basic levels of items in play. I want to figure this out since it seems more efficient than level emitters, which take up a lot of space... and channels. I get the basic idea. The interface should generate a draw on the storage bus when it is out of a designated item which will cause the storage bus to try to pull one, triggering autocrafting from a pattern. Or something. 1) An interface connected to a molecular assembler with patterns for whatever you need. No crafting card is required in this interface.   2) At least one crafting CPU. If you're setting your storage maintenance up like this you'll likely want a bank of them, since this setup uses them any time it needs to craft the requested items.  3) A storage bus connected to an interface with a crafting card. This is where you put the stack of items you want to keep in the network.  
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Nov 7, 2015 15:05
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:TC5 actually sounds...more tolerable than TC4 I'd rather see a Blightfall^4 version where the whole thing was given a pass over.
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Nov 7, 2015 15:22
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The biggest problem with TC5 and Blightfall is that tainted substances become Dust now. That's going to be a slightly less optimistic way of saving the world, since what you're really doing is killing it. Delightfully bleak as that is, I could still see "Blightrise" or something similar replace it. Trapped underground when the surface became overrun. Using small, isolated bunkers and the supplies within to rebuild the world. Fallout but with the nukes replaced by a invasive Biohazard. In that regard, it'd probably be a really fun formula for a ruined magi-tech cityscape, its surrounding lands and surviving underground infrastructure. Not a world covered in blight, but certain hyper-dangerous points of interest would be. Points of interest that will be vital to your survival. You'd probably want to expand Blightfall's extra monsters if you were going to do this. "Infected Workers." and that kind of thing, lurking inside laboratories and factories. Biodomes that once studied the Eldritch life that have been shattered, "leaking" out the taint storms. Reactors that stand dormant, ready to be used but at what cost? As fun an idea as all this is however, It wouldn't be Blightfall. Blightfall was about surviving on a hyper-lethal surface world in your tiny safe spaces. "Blightrise" would be closer to Regrowth, a world in ruins with deadly points of interest to explore and piece together what the gently caress happened while salvaging what you can to survive and thrive. Maybe not a bad pitch after all.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:02
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Serifina posted:For the record, Vazkii did set the passive wither config to default to on and initially about two days (In-game), later three. This didn't solve the problem. So guess where the true problem has been all along. Here's a hint: Not the players -- though that is certainly the trigger. Not the admins either. The problem is with the code and the fundamental design. Passive systems appeal to people who just want to set something up once and forget about it. They don't want to feed an engine, they don't want to hunt for and balance resources, they just want a thing to work. If an Endoflame had a mechanic where, upon being planted, it would start to absorb coal out of the world like an enderquarry within a set radius, then it might start to appeal more to a player who tends to rely on passive generation methods. When it runs out of things to eat, it stops. Starve it for a week without transplanting it, and it dies. If, in the recipe to make it, you include x-number of the plant you are trying to get players to stray away from making, then it gives them an incentive to dig them up and combine them for your new recipe -- provided that the energy increase is high enough. Eventually, a player is just going to make an endless Tree --> Charcoal farm, and keep the plant permanently fed that way. So how do you incentivize a player to visit the next tier and reduce server lag even more. If your answer is "By adding a lot of additional complicated bullshit mechanics, then nerfing the old mechanics, reducing configuration, and blaming the players for doing it wrong" then you probably shouldn't be making mods. Instead, look at the core mechanics, then look at the code. Especially the code. If what you wrote makes lag, then get some additional sets of eyes in there and optimize that bitch.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:07
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That's exactly the Solar Panel spam situation again, though. There are simple ways to upgrade from the passive blooms, and simple ways to automate them- then you can go away and do something else. I don't understand why adding "complicated bullshit mechanics" as you put it to Endoflames is helpful at all. The people complaining seem to be pissed that they can't get all the cool toys without learning how the mod works.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:32
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Cryohazard posted:That's exactly the Solar Panel spam situation again, though. There are simple ways to upgrade from the passive blooms, and simple ways to automate them- then you can go away and do something else. I don't understand why adding "complicated bullshit mechanics" as you put it to Endoflames is helpful at all. Incidentally, IC2 was bullshit and it's higher levels of power generation were constantly reworked to be more bullshit (UUmatter->Uranium removed, coolant requiring non-renewables) so yeah, NO poo poo most people spammed solars.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:35
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StealthArcher posted:Incidentally, IC2 was bullshit and it's higher levels of power generation were constantly reworked to be more bullshit (UUmatter->Uranium removed, coolant requiring non-renewables) so yeah, NO poo poo most people spammed solars. solars were still a problem before that though i was the only person on my server who ever used nuclear power, everyone else was like "phew it sure takes a lot of rubber to make power!"
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Nov 7, 2015 16:40
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Glory of Arioch posted:solars were still a problem before that though If putting in that much grind to get a power source was seen as more lucrative than whatever work nuclear required, then nuclear was too bullshit.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:49
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Glory of Arioch posted:like i said before, it sounds really dumb but your reputation as a mod that "kills servers" or otherwise does make a difference One of the people who work on Botania with Vazkii was saying on the FTB subreddit that one of the main reasons for the change was that people were basically building Hydroangea farms and not bothering to proceed beyond that. They also complained a bit that people don't use much behind the passives and Endoflames. So yeah, it's not wanting to be a "server killer" as well as a good chunk of "muh vision". StealthArcher posted:If putting in that much grind to get a power source was seen as more lucrative than whatever work nuclear required, then nuclear was too bullshit. Old IC2 reactors weren't so bad, once you got into them. Making CASUC designs was a bit of a fun point for me, where you just shoved in ice or buckets of water (extracting the empties and refilling). Except that during this period of MC modding, chunkloaders didn't allow things like water replenishing or redstone changing states and were hacky as gently caress. End result, a very big hole in a building made out of reinforced stone/glass. CrazyTolradi fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 16:57
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CrazyTolradi posted:One of the people who work on Botania with Vazkii was saying on the FTB subreddit that one of the main reasons for the change was that people were basically building Hydroangea farms and not bothering to proceed beyond that. They also complained a bit that people don't use much behind the passives and Endoflames. Because "people ignoring a huge chunk of the mod because they obsess over this one introductory flower" and wanting that to change is totally "muh vision". If I wrote a mod, one with plenty of nifty mechanics and interesting bits and pieces, and then discovered that half the people were literally ignoring huge chunks of it to spam just that one introductory bit that was never meant to be more than a brief help, I'd change things, too - particularly when also being bombarded with complaints that "your mod causes lag" and "it takes forever to generate enough mana to do anything!" Personally, I don't think Vazkii went far enough - were it me, I'd rip out the passives entirely.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:03
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Serifina posted:Because "people ignoring a huge chunk of the mod because they obsess over this one introductory flower" and wanting that to change is totally "muh vision". Yes Ser we get it, people are too casual and don't suck the vision modders' dicks enough.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:05
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Think I'd just flip it on its head. Passive gen is turned to be endgamey, multiblocky but good and you only need a few. Endoflames remove their "mana needed" step but still have their hard limit of fuel burn (I think its a block of coal).
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Nov 7, 2015 17:15
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Thyrork posted:Think I'd just flip it on its head. Passive gen is turned to be endgamey, multiblocky but good and you only need a few. Endoflames remove their "mana needed" step but still have their hard limit of fuel burn (I think its a block of coal). 100% agreed.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:18
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Basically we're back to wishing Big Trees was a thing, Sorry goons. 
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Nov 7, 2015 17:20
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StealthArcher posted:If putting in that much grind to get a power source was seen as more lucrative than whatever work nuclear required, then nuclear was too bullshit. no, nuclear was piss easy, you just had to put a little bit of thought into reactor design people who spammed solars were mostly unwilling to burn a resource for fuel when they could trickle it in with solars for free after a one-time investment
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Nov 7, 2015 17:23
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Thyrork posted:Large numbers of passive mana generation gobbles up server ticks, creating lag and instability. How would such a fringe case that falls into "competent enough to go into the ini and change it, yet still wondering what's lagging his server so much" be so ubiquitous it requires the outright removal of the option entirely? Personally I don't even like dayblooms, and if I could skip them straight to endoflames I would, but I don't see how removing the option because some people might go out of their way to re-enable this, lag their server, and then complain about it was the right choice. All that said I still think passive gen should be the ultimate endgame because that's what people obviously want anyway. I know if it was even remotely comparable I'd gladly go with the option of huge buy-in for little/no maintenance. That's why I liked compact solars and the like, just because you could set and forget. I was happy to leave that as an endgame option.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:45
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i mean if you want endgame passive flowers then feel free to farm overgrowth seeds and set your dayblooms on them so they don't wither
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Nov 7, 2015 17:49
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Glory of Arioch posted:no, nuclear was piss easy, you just had to put a little bit of thought into reactor design Then the resource is obviously too much of effort to get. Really, this is basic stuff guys.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:54
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EricFate posted:Instead, look at the core mechanics, then look at the code. Especially the code. If what you wrote makes lag, then get some additional sets of eyes in there and optimize that bitch. Passive flowers are well optimized. In fact I'd say they're one of the best optimized TE's I've seen. But they exist in minecraft, and anything that requires a tick is going to get it, and when you go beyond a couple hundred it's going to start lagging, no matter what the TE is or how well optimized it is. Spam of passive generation has been a problem in a myriad of mods since the first ic2 solars, and will always be as long as minecraft is coded how it is. It's bad gameplay and bad technically, cutting it out is Cool and Good.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:05
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Serifina posted:Because "people ignoring a huge chunk of the mod because they obsess over this one introductory flower" and wanting that to change is totally "muh vision". After playing around with Botania a bit, I've found that if you don't want to automate anything hydroangeas aren't horrible (using an older Botania build without the change). I don't see how anyone needs hundreds, let alone thousands, of passive gen flowers unless they're wanting to shitout terrasteel blocks all over the place. StealthArcher posted:Then the resource is obviously too much of effort to get. Really, this is basic stuff guys.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:10
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StealthArcher posted:Then the resource is obviously any amount effort to get fyp
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Nov 7, 2015 18:18
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:A temporary diversion from vision chat. I can't figure out the whole storage bus->interface->molecular assembler thing in AE2 for keeping basic levels of items in play. I want to figure this out since it seems more efficient than level emitters, which take up a lot of space... and channels. I get the basic idea. The interface should generate a draw on the storage bus when it is out of a designated item which will cause the storage bus to try to pull one, triggering autocrafting from a pattern. Or something. If you have the interface setup for crafting there is no need to specify anything in the interface's interface except recipes. There's no need for a crafting card either. And there is no need to attach a storage bus to it. You should put a crafting card in the export bus that is requesting the crafted item instead and allow your buffer chest or the block's interface to fill up with things from the export bus. I'd highly recommend this method if you want a constant supply of an item for something. For example, I just straight export bus redstone/cryotheum/glowstone/ender pearls into magma crucibles. I just straight export dark steel balls into SAG mills. If you have an interface setup as a storage buffer/chest, you set the number of things you want it to hold in the interface's interface and it will request those from the network until it holds the desired amount. This requires a crafting card if you want the item to be crafted in the network. You can then attach a storage bus to the interface and it will treat the interface as a chest and provide its contents to your network. The big takeaway is if you are stocking items in an interface it's pretty much a chest that the network can stock and anything can interact with as if it were a chest. This is primarily useful for high end materials that you will only ever need a stack or two of for crafting and don't want to setup level emitters for, or for keeping a spare set of super nerd armor in stock, or you get the idea. The third thing is if you attach a storage bus to an interface with nothing in it the network with the storage bus can view the entire contents of network the interface is attached to. This is how sub networks work and making a ton of storage require only 1 channel works. Khorne fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 18:25
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I remember playing FTB off their first launcher and I got pretty far, then I found out the hard way that ice no longer works in an IC2 reactor for cooling and I lost my world (because everything was exploded). I would be happy if instead of it exploded it would simply melt down and turn into lava or something. As for my opinion for "dayblooms bad!", I was playing on an FTB Horizons server and mobs are pretty aggressive, they spawn anywhere on a flat surface regardless of light level, and every once in a while a blood moon would occur and you have 200+ mobs waiting for you to open the door so they can all come running in. Flower decay was turned on in that pack, and it's not that I don't want to make a coal burning flower, it's just that I can't because it wouldn't last very long without being exploded, so I settled for having 12 dayblooms because they're cheap and they don't take time to setup, if they got exploded by a creeper I wouldn't miss them, and I haven't gotten far enough in the game to make stuff that stops mobs from spawning.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:26
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The answer to the controversy is always that people who whine about what other people enjoy are giant loving babies who should be ignored. Games are for fun.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:44
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ImpactVector posted:3) A storage bus connected to an interface with a crafting card. This is where you put the stack of items you want to keep in the network. What I'm guessing happens is that when the resource is depleted, the interface asks what it takes to make a replacement, and the crafting card initiates the creation of it. I am guess the storage bus serves to open up the interface for the ingredients it needs. I am trying to figure out if I need to do a similar thing for all the ingredients it needs. In this case, it's just a wooden button, so I am trying to figure out if I should also set it up to always have one wooden plank. Khorne posted:There are three primary different things you can do with an interface. I think most people know you can blindly dump things into an interface and it gets imported into your network. And also that an interface is viewed as a chest with an inventory when other mods attempt to pull from it. Do you know about this little trick for maintaining levels of craftable items without a bank of level emitters we're talking about?
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Nov 7, 2015 19:17
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Mr Scumbag posted:The answer to the controversy is always that people who whine about what other people enjoy are giant loving babies who should be ignored. Glory of Arioch posted:i mean if you want endgame passive flowers then feel free to farm overgrowth seeds and set your dayblooms on them so they don't wither
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Nov 7, 2015 19:28
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Another big reason not mentioned about people sticking with lower level mana generator flowers is that by deliberately omitting any amount of mana, there's no way to know how much better one flower is from another. It seems perfectly reasonable to me that people stick with endoflames forever, when there's no indication if the food one is worth the trouble, or if the cake one is better than the food one, or how much mana you really get from a bucket of lava (doesn't seem like much over time) If I hadn't heard people talk about munchdews I'd have never set up a huge complicated system to feed them because it might not even have been energy positive in blightfall.
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