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Zephro posted:Thanks. I get that this is the theory Fire dot is worth keeping up on ogres, though not worth taking a hit for. Fire dot is also useful on hordes, as it will make other skaven scared to fight, which buys valuable breathing room. The trick with the conflag staff is to start charging it such that you can fire it right when the group is just meeting your line. However, assuming your shield/2h ers are competent, your staff is probably better used to do flanking and rear guard so they can concentrate forward without worry.
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Nov 7, 2015 15:16
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But in practice it just feels kind of ineffective. By the time I've charged up a conflag my team mates have usually killed most of the rats in melee. When I do get one off it doesn't seem to do an awful lot of damage.
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BW conflagration seems to pair really, really nicely with my WH rapier for instantly melting hordes, fwiw.
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Nov 7, 2015 15:17
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Donnerberg posted:I think these 8 are all the hidden achievements. awesome thanks guys! Time to smash some cunts and get some grims!
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Nov 7, 2015 15:18
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Skandranon posted:Fire dot is worth keeping up on ogres, though not worth taking a hit for.
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Nov 7, 2015 15:56
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The Beam Staff is better than Conflag. You don't have to charge it to fire off a burst of flames, Conflag requires you to not be bothered at all to use properly while you can be totally mobbed and still pump out a bunch of flaming shotgun blasts with the Beam. I don't get the love for Conflag. It's only really useful in situations where you're not having trouble with the horde anyway.
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Nov 7, 2015 16:36
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The beam staff is a myth. It doesn't exist. For me anyway :/
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Nov 7, 2015 16:52
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Zephro posted:The beam staff is a myth. It doesn't exist. For me anyway :/  You gotta believe!
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Nov 7, 2015 17:05
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My Nightmare mode runs seem to have a consistent theme of 'almost, but not quite.' I can't even count the number of games where we've made it like, 3/4 of the way through, only to wipe at the end. The binary state of loot in this game really gets annoying after a while. It feels like it punishes you for pushing your limits. VV: Poor choice of words, I rephrased. Backhand fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 17:25
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Backhand posted:It feels like it punishes you for taking risks. Uh...
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Nov 7, 2015 17:26
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I wish I had a better beam staff but I just use my orange bolt staff most of the time anyway and chug down speed potions
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Nov 7, 2015 17:30
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Zephro posted:OK, thanks. So I'm actually better off letting tanks and 2h users deal with hordes while I pick off any rats coming from behind? And the benefit of conflag, if I do ever use it, isn't so much the damage but the "crowd control" that comes from demoralising other Skaven? How the BW behaves depends on if FF is on or not. If no FF, then you can contribute a lot to hordes by firing through the tanks right into hordes, as you'll kill 2-3 per shot. Can't do this with FF, but rear guard and flanking is even more important on Nightmade and Cataclysm where a few stray hits can down someone.
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Nov 7, 2015 17:38
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Skandranon posted:How the BW behaves depends on if FF is on or not. If no FF, then you can contribute a lot to hordes by firing through the tanks right into hordes, as you'll kill 2-3 per shot. Can't do this with FF, but rear guard and flanking is even more important on Nightmade and Cataclysm where a few stray hits can down someone. You can do this with FF if using the Beam or Conflag staff however because they have no friendly fire on the Conflags charge attack or the Beams shotgun attack. Which is why those two are the most recommended for Nightmare+
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Nov 7, 2015 17:49
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Fans posted:You can do this with FF if using the Beam or Conflag staff however because they have no friendly fire on the Conflags charge attack or the Beams shotgun attack. Which is why those two are the most recommended for Nightmare+ Yes I know that, but this role can be done regardless of the staff you are using.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:01
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Have the CheatEngine folks had any success figuring out what the Luck stat actually does? I've heard a ton of theories, but no one really seems to actually know.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:06
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You guys are focusing too much on the right click for conflag staff when the left click is the best part. On nightmare it 1 shots any rat with a body shot and is amazing at pinging diffuse enemies ammo-free or thinning out hordes. The huge majority of my kills come from LMB staff and sword power attacks, the staff RMB is only really good for niche situations. It's just that the fireball staff RMB is garbage so you may as well use conflag.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:12
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If the luck stat is anything other than "affects amount/quality of items you find in chests" and/or "affects chances of specials spawning" someone at Fatshark needs to be slapped.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:13
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Chomp8645 posted:If the luck stat is anything other than "affects amount/quality of items you find in chests" and/or "affects chances of specials spawning" someone at Fatshark needs to be slapped. Well, the most recent supposition I've seen is that it has no effect on chest spawns (since you can often see arrows sticking out of the side of the box before you ever open it), and that it instead boosts weapon proc chances. I have no idea though.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:25
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Chomp8645 posted:If the luck stat is anything other than "affects amount/quality of items you find in chests" and/or "affects chances of specials spawning" someone at Fatshark needs to be slapped. what if it effects the % chance you have of proccing on a weapon?
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Nov 7, 2015 18:29
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Al Borland posted:what if it effects the % chance you have of proccing on a weapon? I wouldn't like that because you shouldn't go into a mission with gear saying "x% chance to do x" and then have it fluctuate based on some nebulous and ill defined luck stat. If you want that to be a thing I would say that a "increases weapon proc chance by x%" trinket would be a better way of going about it.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:41
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luck isnt real therefore the luck stat does nothing 
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Nov 7, 2015 18:46
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I got an arming sword for Kruber, and it actually seems pretty good? Head shot and armor penetration on the charged attack and three shields of stamina doesn't seem too bad.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:49
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Arcsquad12 posted:I got an arming sword for Kruber, and it actually seems pretty good? Head shot and armor penetration on the charged attack and three shields of stamina doesn't seem too bad. A zwei has all that, more damage, and twice the reach
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Nov 7, 2015 19:43
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Coolguye posted:A zwei has all that, more damage, and twice the reach And less speed. I've been having trouble with the Zwei lately, but I like the sword and shield, so perhaps this will work better.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:57
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I don't think there's a single genuinely bad melee weapon type in the game. There are a few bad ranged weapons, but I can't think of a melee weapon that isn't mostly a matter of taste and style.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:58
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Backhand posted:Have the CheatEngine folks had any success figuring out what the Luck stat actually does? I've heard a ton of theories, but no one really seems to actually know. Someone posted some code snippets a week or so back, and all it does is affect cursed loot dice. The base chance is 5% when opening a chest, affected in some way by # chests remaining on the map. Having an orange trinket bumps the chance up to 10% iirc. As with anything else on the internet, take it with a grain of salt. On an unrelated note, I'm convinced there's no such thing as variable reach on weapons in this game. I've never felt like I had to adjust my playstyle reach-wise regardless of weapon or class, and WH axe in particular seems to have reach about three times as long as its model would indicate. 
Zhulik fucked around with this message at 20:07 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 20:05
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So I just tried running the wizard's tower with 3 bots. Don't do this. The pathfinding has no idea what to do and they end up all over the place.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:14
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Arcsquad12 posted:And less speed. I've been having trouble with the Zwei lately, but I like the sword and shield, so perhaps this will work better. I've never had problems with the arming sword. I went back to the 2H hammer because to me, the arming sword just can't live up to braining rats in terms of fun factor. If you like your pseudo-elf style then more power to you. It's still enjoyable.
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Nov 7, 2015 20:21
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loving pubbies are killing this game for me. And I like PUGs, bad teammates keep the maps interesting. I like punching things, I like punching big things. Stop breaking the loving pathfinding on the rat ogre. I thought that was a Black Powder thing, but they've figured out how to climb up on poo poo on other maps too now. God, stream of consciousness here.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:33
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I had to impugn the honor of 3 pubbies just to get them off that goddamn beam on horn of magnus.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:35
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Trudis posted:I had to impugn the honor of 3 pubbies just to get them off that goddamn beam on horn of magnus. That finale isn't even hard! It's just fun! Why the hell are they such cowards? We got dumped on by six Stormvermin, two Globadiers, and a Runner while fighting off the horde in that finale and it was great fun beating them and getting out with a grimoire and tomes. Why would they not want to actually play the game?
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Nov 7, 2015 21:39
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Zhulik posted:Someone posted some code snippets a week or so back, and all it does is affect cursed loot dice. The base chance is 5% when opening a chest, affected in some way by # chests remaining on the map. Having an orange trinket bumps the chance up to 10% iirc. God if it just really only makes your chance of loot dice higher then it's garbage. There are much more beneficial things that you can bring to help the team since dice mean poo poo if you ain't winning.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:41
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the funny thing is the beam isn't even that safe; globadiers and ratling gunners can and will gently caress you up on it
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Nov 7, 2015 21:42
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Night10194 posted:That finale isn't even hard! It's just fun! Why the hell are they such cowards? It's fun if you are somewhat competent and enjoy actually playing the game. The pubbies at level 150 in all orange gear that came out of the Black Powder incident simply suck at actually playing the game, and so have no idea how to do simple things like "swing hammer", "kill rats" or "don't get hit". They just want to keep hitting the loot button and get more loot.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:42
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Night10194 posted:That finale isn't even hard! It's just fun! Why the hell are they such cowards? The same reason why people would hide in closets and mash melee in Left 4 Dead: It's a guaranteed win, no matter how dumb or bad you and your teammates are, and winning is everything to some people even if it means bypassing the whole "actually playing the game" part. On top of that, the loot system has added a poisonous incentive for people to want to do this sort of "I exploited my way out of having to play the game" stuff even more because it's a pure pass/fail metric and it's really easy for a lot of people to get into the mindset of "gently caress, THESE loving MORONS JUST WASTED 30 MINUTES OF MY LIFE" when you get to the finale segment and die, so everyone wants to hedge their bets against that happening. When someone is mechanically running Horn of Magnus over and over and over just for the loot because it's generally a pretty safe win, they don't want to take any risks at all. There's a few ways that devs could break people out of this mindset; one would be to actually give some kind of substantial reward based on progress through the missions(XP isn't a substantial reward), but this would be tough to do right because done wrong you'd get poopsockers purposely dying over and over for shots at loot. Another would be to encourage people to do various maps in some way(bonus dice for clicking random, map of the day, etc). But as long as there's an incentive to farm loot in the most boring and mechanical way possible, people will do it, and as long as people are doing it they will take steps to remove any element of risk they possibly can. Incidentally, the easiest way to avoid most of these people right now is to simply not play Horn of Magnus.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:59
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it boggles my mind that people think loot is the reason to play this game idiots, the reason is bashing rats! fools! imbeciles!!
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Nov 7, 2015 23:15
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Kanos posted:The same reason why people would hide in closets and mash melee in Left 4 Dead: It's a guaranteed win, no matter how dumb or bad you and your teammates are, and winning is everything to some people even if it means bypassing the whole "actually playing the game" part. On top of that, the loot system has added a poisonous incentive for people to want to do this sort of "I exploited my way out of having to play the game" stuff even more because it's a pure pass/fail metric and it's really easy for a lot of people to get into the mindset of "gently caress, THESE loving MORONS JUST WASTED 30 MINUTES OF MY LIFE" when you get to the finale segment and die, so everyone wants to hedge their bets against that happening. When someone is mechanically running Horn of Magnus over and over and over just for the loot because it's generally a pretty safe win, they don't want to take any risks at all. If you touch the beam, it should spawn like 5 rat ogres in the section after the lift, but before olyssa's cart
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Nov 7, 2015 23:16
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But Not Tonight posted:it boggles my mind that people think loot is the reason to play this game Admittedly, I do enjoy getting new loot to bash the rats with, but yes, it is the purpose.
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Nov 7, 2015 23:20
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The devs did mention on Twitter that they were "evolving" the loot system. What ever the gently caress that means. I agree though that the loot needs to be reworked for people not to just cheese whatever they can. Since L4D was broken into stages you were never really that far away if you'd died.
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Nov 7, 2015 23:25
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The purpose of this game is reading new and unusual crash logs. Seriously. Can't go more than a few minutes without a crash. I love this game when it works but I have a hard time booting it up these days knowing it's just going to fall apart.
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Nov 8, 2015 00:07
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I just started using shield weapons and they feel almost too good. The only downside is being unable to effectively deal with stormvermin, but you can still keep a mob of them tied up indefinitely. Seems like a fair trade.
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Nov 8, 2015 00:09
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