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The Vosgian Beast posted:It's really amazing. The thing about right-wing hate is that they'll forget that you're enemy X as long as you're with them to destroy enemy Y. But they'll go to the "destroy X" meeting the next day and call for the blood of people like you. Gamergate is exactly a right-wing hate movement, and the ideological differences between them and neonazis or radical christian identity movement people is essentially nil.
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Nov 6, 2015 22:46
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Nessus posted:So what's with all this Protestant work ethic poo poo? Was this a legitimate shift in society, or did rich people just decide to excoriate Poors into working themselves to death to produce more friedman units for the masters? This post is going to simplify things a bunch, but: there was a genuine shift in society, which was a result of rich people excoriating Poors, which in turn was a result of changing bases of competition between rich people. In precapitalist societies, the major units of production, like the Greek slaveholding household or the medieval manor or village, were largely self-sufficient. If you were lucky enough to be live in a relatively free village, you and your neighbors would work just enough to feed yourselves, and maybe a tiny bit extra for risk-pooling and buying some things from the village yonder; and if you had someone to boss you around, you'd work a little bit more to outfit him and his family as well. There wasn't a lot of reason to work more than this because (1) some boss or boss-wannabe would probably just steal it anyway and (2) work sucks and as long as you can eat you can get most of what you want from social activities (gossip, religion, the usual) around the village. If your boss is really greedy he might try to make you more productive, but most are only a normal amount of greedy and, like you, would rather avoid extra work if they can avoid it, even if it would get them extra baubles. The competitive pressures on them generally have less to do with making their minions more productive and more to making sure their children get into the right marriages, maintaining their credible reputation for violence (the state, as we know it, doesn't really exist "on the ground" in most rural areas), and showing off how much time they have to not be productive by being cultured. And if they do want to become richer, it's both easier and more prestigious to steal it from some other aristo, or if there's a little more peace to seek out a nice sinecure, than to improve their own lands. Compare this to a capitalist firm. The firm isn't self-sufficient - it doesn't physically produce what it and its employees need to survive; rather, it produces things that others want to buy, the revenues from which it uses to purchase those first things. If a medieval manor is only half as productive as its neighbor, then the lord of the poor manor gets fewer luxury items, but it otherwise fine (this is weakened a bit when we consider the possibility of conquest and purchasing mercenaries, but that went through a wider variety of filters and again this is a simplification.) If your firm is only half as productive as the next one in your field, then there's a problem: investors have no reason to back you rather than your competitor, and if that competitor can also slash prices below yours, so you're dead. (That's why they're called competitors, after all, even if you may all cooperate in lobbying governments and so on.) Compared to pre-capitalist forms of exploitation, capitalists have greater reason to pursue both what Marx called relative surplus value (technological improvements) and absolute surplus-value (sweating workers.) Weber's Protestant Ethic is about how you get from Point A to Point B: both situations are equilibria, so why would everyone go from one to the other? He claims that certain Protestant sects, for reasons that were internal to theology rather than economic strategies or whatever, started promoting the idea that you should work really hard and not spend money and never be happy, basically. But this was actually very amenable to capital accumulation, and so worldly success came to be associated with virtue, and so pursuing this kind of worldly success came to have more prestige - even though all the happiness-hating theologians who came up with the idea would have hated the idea of someone pursuing economic success for its own sake. So this aided the growth of capitalism, and the concept came to be secularized as the "Spirit of Capitalism." But since once you actually get to Point B it's an equilibrium even without any such Spirit, that attitude can fade away and just leave people economically competing because they have to. (In this its similar to traditional Marxist accounts in where things ultimately end up, though this latter's historical accounts tend to emphasize the creation of large amounts of landless laborers who can't just fall back on their own self-sufficient forms of production.) Weber's exact historical account may or may not hold up, but the shift between the two worlds did happen, and within Europe there were correlations (causation would be harder to prove) between Protestantism and the growing capitalist or proto-capitalist economy: the Reformation itself appealed most to burghers and craftsmen and least to the traditional agricultural economy, and was successful in northern rather than southern Europe. But there wouldn't be too much change in religious geography since then (beyond of course the colonial spread of Christianity) and it would take a long time for both non-cottage industries and work-time discipline to become widespread even in Protestant countries. ("Took a long time to become widespread" is a giant handwave of a lot of really interesting things, like how many crucial organizational innovations came out of colonial slavery, or why Weber correctly thought double-entry bookkeeping was so important, but that's a story for another day, maybe.) "Throne and altar" refers to a particular kind of early 19th century conservatism, associated with writers like de Maistre and Bonald, that wanted to preserve the old order - both in the above sense and in the literal sense of preserving old monarchies from revolution - and was very deeply Catholic. And from the French Revolution to the end of WWII, Catholic thinkers promote a kind of skepticism of capitalism from the right; things like distributism and corporatism and so on are largely attempts to articulate how you can have the "old" system in an industrial society. Oligopsony has a new favorite as of 22:59 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 22:49
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Former SA Mod Derek Smart enlists Vox Day to the Star Citizen cause, everyone who actually knows who Vox Day is tells Smart to go gently caress himselfD_Smart posted:So this is totally happening. Go register.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:18
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Jason Sextro posted:Bear in mind this was 15 years ago, so my memory is a little bit fuzzy, but I asked my sister and she remembers him vaguely too. When I get a chance to go back to my parents's house I'm going to see if I can find an old yearbook. Dredge up some old yearbooks and the internet will love you forever. Middle-school (don't know the Canadian equivalent--like kids 12-14 or so) yearbooks would be even better.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:35
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Ok digging up highschool yearbooks on these weirdos is kind of creepy/doxxy/helldumpy.
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Nov 7, 2015 01:45
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Freudian posted:Ok digging up highschool yearbooks on these weirdos is kind of creepy/doxxy/helldumpy. How could it humiliate him any more than his adult life?
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Nov 7, 2015 02:07
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Jack Gladney posted:Dredge up some old yearbooks and the internet will love you forever. Middle-school (don't know the Canadian equivalent--like kids 12-14 or so) yearbooks would be even better. It's just middle school in Canada We aren't aliens
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Nov 7, 2015 02:12
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It's still weird and not good precedent, I feel.Cardboard Box A posted:Former SA Mod Derek Smart enlists Vox Day to the Star Citizen cause, everyone who actually knows who Vox Day is tells Smart to go gently caress himself I am so glad I have never bothered to investigate this particular bit of internet drama.
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Nov 7, 2015 02:36
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Jack Gladney posted:How could it humiliate him any more than his adult life? Then it's just pointless as well as poor form. (And who of us weren't embarrassing in middle school? *tugs collar*)
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Nov 7, 2015 02:39
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The Vosgian Beast posted:I am so glad I have never bothered to investigate this particular bit of internet drama. Though you would have had to have been there in the battlecruiser flamewar days on usenet and the Derek Smart's Desktop Commander age to really appreciate it, so no biggie.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:01
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Cardboard Box A posted:You're missing out. Yeah if you told 90s DarklyDreaming that Derek Smart and Chris Roberts would have a feud over each others' half finished pipe dreams I woulda said "We all win that fight  " Then again 90's me was kinda dumb 
DarklyDreaming has a new favorite as of 03:56 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 03:45
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Improbable Lobster posted:We aren't aliens You aren't extraterrestrials
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Nov 7, 2015 03:59
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So what's the lowdown on Sargon of Akkad (the YouTube personality, not the historical figure)? I know he's associated with these jokers, particularly Aurini, but you folks got anything specific on his opinions et cetera? I'd look myself, but it's all hours-long videos and gently caress that.
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Nov 7, 2015 18:48
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Darth Walrus posted:So what's the lowdown on Sargon of Akkad (the YouTube personality, not the historical figure)? I know he's associated with these jokers, particularly Aurini, but you folks got anything specific on his opinions et cetera? I'd look myself, but it's all hours-long videos and gently caress that. All I know is that whenever I watch anything with Anita Sarkeesian in it, all my youtube recommended videos for a week afterward are him and have all-caps "FEMINISM EXPOSED"-themed titles. That's more than enough to tell me that I don't want to know any more. He's got that self-important education-by-wikipedia name theme down, though.
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Nov 7, 2015 19:13
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Jack Gladney posted:All I know is that whenever I watch anything with Anita Sarkeesian in it, all my youtube recommended videos for a week afterward are him and have all-caps "FEMINISM EXPOSED"-themed titles. That's more than enough to tell me that I don't want to know any more. He's got that self-important education-by-wikipedia name theme down, though. And of course his namesake was a brutal dictator who faced numerous rebellions, one of which besieged his capital, because his subjects hated him so much. In other news, since I find the rise of historically informed performance of early orchestral music interesting, I was surfing for sites pertaining to the subject, and found one that takes it from "well let's try to play it the way it would have been played back then, and see how it differs from the modern symphony" to "classical music has degenerated from the mythic golden age of Handel because of ~political correctness~ and ~diversity~". http://www.earlymusicworld.com/opera_arrogance.html http://www.earlymusicworld.com/id44.html quote:Opera is sick. Very sick. Once handsome and noble, its formerly elegant features have over recent years become ever more contorted and distorted beneath a toxic, suppurating excrescence commonly known as Regietheater. That some dispute the validity of the use of the word is in the context neither here nor there; it is universally recognised among those with involvement in opera as the term used for the bastardised so-called productions of the egomaniacs that currently rule the opera houses of Europe and beyond. Let me first make clear that it is not my intention here to recite, Leporello-like, a list of crimes committed against opera by the practitioners of Regietheater. It is already possible to do this in a number of places, not least several excellent articles by the American academic and critic Heather Mac Donald, most notably ‘The abduction of Opera’ (City Journal, Summer 2007, available on-line), which takes its impetus from a hideously brutal Berlin Komische Oper production of Die Entführung aus dem Serail, but which serves generally as being representative of Mac Donald’s trenchant criticism of the genre. Neither will it be my purpose to name the major activists; such is the vanity and solipsistic view of life of most practitioners of Regietheater that they would probably take perverse pleasure in being identified as the destroyers of a once elevated and dignified art form. Indeed, I sense I can already hear from some quarters the foaming-mouthed howls of derision that greet the words ‘elevated’ and dignified’.  quote:We live in an age of arrogance that manifests itself in a variety of forms, some interlinked. It is arrogance born of the fallacious belief that mankind has attained a state of universal, all-pervading wisdom surpassing that of the past. We believe we know better than our forbears, no matter what the subject or the circumstances. (There are of course some disciplines where this is unquestionably true; surgery might be cited as an example). This cult of arrogance can be observed in many walks of life. In religion it has led to the casting out of beautiful liturgies that after serving well for centuries are ruled to be in some way irrelevant to the needs of modern worshipers. Instead they have had new and often banal liturgies foisted on them, meekly accepting such changes. 
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Nov 7, 2015 19:24
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Woolie Wool posted:In other news, since I find the rise of historically informed performance of early orchestral music interesting, I was surfing for sites pertaining to the subject, and found one that takes it from "well let's try to play it the way it would have been played back then, and see how it differs from the modern symphony" to "classical music has degenerated from the mythic golden age of Handel because of ~political correctness~ and ~diversity~". And remembering for added hilarity that "classical" is itself a reactionary term, retrospectively applied to a mythical "golden age". As if Bach sounds anything like Beethoven.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:30
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https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/663022655075930112 He has figured it out, guys. This is what progs have turned the news into.
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Nov 7, 2015 23:38
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divabot posted:And remembering for added hilarity that "classical" is itself a reactionary term, retrospectively applied to a mythical "golden age". As if Bach sounds anything like Beethoven.
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Nov 7, 2015 23:44
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Merdifex posted:https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/663022655075930112
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Nov 7, 2015 23:59
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Merdifex posted:https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/663022655075930112 I cannot understand this emotion you Hu-Mans call Com-Passion. This is why the Ro-Man will eternally triumph over the weaker Hu-Mans. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2ClUHQf5kc
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Nov 8, 2015 00:08
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Cingulate posted:Neither of which is classical. Beethoven is where romanticism takes over from classical, and Bach was MUCH earlier. So... if it ain't Baroque, don't fix it? 
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Nov 8, 2015 01:02
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Nessus posted:Ah yes, because before the last couple of years the news media has been an incorruptible bastion of sober policy analysis and high-minded philosophy. Walter Cronkite was a philosopher king, you see.
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Nov 8, 2015 03:09
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Walter Cronkite was a philosopher king, you see.
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Nov 8, 2015 03:52
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Nessus posted:My understanding is that, at best, we had a couple of decades of above-average journalistic integrity, and more accurately, we just only had a few TV channels so there was a much greater impression of national unity in that brief period. We are presently returning to the traditional state of "chaos reigns." Objectivism in reporting is an aberration. In the 1800s there were two newspapers in my town: The Democrat and the Herald, both created for the purpose of shamelessly shilling for the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, respectively. The Democrat even got censored because it was pro-Confederate during the Civil War. They merged in the twenties to become the Democrat-Herald. Now it's just another boring, slowly dying newspaper. Sites like World Net Daily and Think Progress are merely a return to form. If anything, "objective" reporting has been the death of journalism. The concept sticks around because working in a dying industry has reinforced editors' fear of change and because "neutral" reporting reinforces the status quo, a great comfort to wealthy advertisers and media owners.
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Nov 8, 2015 04:42
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Curvature of Earth posted:Objectivism in reporting is an aberration. In the 1800s there were two newspapers in my town: The Democrat and the Herald, both created for the purpose of shamelessly shilling for the Democratic Party and the Republican Party, respectively. The Democrat even got censored because it was pro-Confederate during the Civil War. They merged in the twenties to become the Democrat-Herald. Now it's just another boring, slowly dying newspaper. Sites like World Net Daily and Think Progress are merely a return to form. Well are you saying "neutral" in that bullshit "give all sides equal footing even if one of them is completely factually wrong" way that American media seems to love doing or "neutral" in a "attempt to present all the facts evenly without bias" kinda way (not that I think the latter is even really possible, but it at least seems like something we should try to do.)
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Nov 8, 2015 07:07
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:Well are you saying "neutral" in that bullshit "give all sides equal footing even if one of them is completely factually wrong" way that American media seems to love doing or "neutral" in a "attempt to present all the facts evenly without bias" kinda way (not that I think the latter is even really possible, but it at least seems like something we should try to do.)
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Nov 8, 2015 09:53
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Woolie Wool posted:http://www.earlymusicworld.com/opera_arrogance.html For someone with strong opinions on dirtty proles corrupting the noble art of opera, that dudes website is disturbingly plebian.
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Nov 8, 2015 10:23
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uh someone has written nydwracu/nostalgebraist slash fiction "3/10 needs more elf jokes"
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Nov 8, 2015 12:20
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Former SA Mod Derek Smart sticks up for his fellow game designer Vox Day. What, you don't think he should give Vox Day the time of day? Isn't that like saying Democrats have no business talking to Fox News?D_Smart posted:OK now you're being silly. I have NO problems with VD. We all have opinions about things. Most may not be popular. But how we express them is key. I find keeping an open mind means that, regardless of popular opinion, one can remain objective in any discourse. D_Smart posted:That's like saying Democrats have no business talking to Fox News. It's all relative. D_Smart posted:Soooooooo, he wants me (who is non-White btw) on a brainstorm session to talk about my challenges and how my involvement in Star Citizen came this far, why? Pray tell. I'm curious like that. D_Smart posted:Yes, that's precisely what I've been trying to get at, that if the Feds get involved, it's going to get way beyond them just pissing away $94m+ and rather into where it went and whether or not it was spent for the purpose for which it was intended. D_Smart posted:Oh yeah, because every politician that goes on Fox News, is a loving moron. Got it. D_Smart posted:No I won't because it has NOTHING to do with GAMING. Vox Day (it's a pseudonym btw) is a notable game designer who has also written (1, 2) about this Star Citizen issue. And he goes way back to the roots of the industry. Big difference. D_Smart posted:
D_Smart posted:^this. That's basically the gist of it. D_Smart posted:
D_Smart posted:*sigh* Also a goon tweets at vox, vox blames everything on "sjw thought policing"  
Assepoester has a new favorite as of 12:44 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 12:40
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I thought that star citizen mock thread harbored Derek Smart only ironically but then they post tweets full of care about losing respect and harmful associations, what the heck
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Nov 8, 2015 14:23
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Woolie Wool posted:
Someone needs to take away this nerd's thesaurus.
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Nov 8, 2015 15:50
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I'm gonna regret asking this, probably, but what/who the heck is Vox Day?
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Nov 8, 2015 16:31
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Samovar posted:I'm gonna regret asking this, probably, but what/who the heck is Vox Day? Imagine the worst opinions and attitudes a human being can have. There, that's Vox Day.
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Nov 8, 2015 16:43
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Samovar posted:I'm gonna regret asking this, probably, but what/who the heck is Vox Day? Anyway, the RationalWiki page on him has plenty of insights on his terrible opinions: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Theodore_Beale
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Nov 8, 2015 17:01
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Never forget; ignoring abhorrent opinions because a person agrees with your argument is not something exclusive to the far-right.
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Nov 8, 2015 17:20
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Pierson posted:Never forget; ignoring abhorrent opinions because a person agrees with your argument is not something exclusive to the far-right. As someone who used to pal around with eco-terrorists I can lend credence to this statement 
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Nov 8, 2015 17:39
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Derek Smart is an insane person who doxxed a 17-year-old disabled kid for cracking wise about him on Twitter. Vox Day could be a literal Neo-Nazi and Smart would still gladly accept his support in the war against Star Citizen.
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Nov 8, 2015 17:46
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divabot posted:uh I had to stop reading RobNost's blog because I was tired of his bigoted interlocutors, it was a shame, he posted good stuff sometimes, even if he did have the bad rationalist habit of being a know-it-all about things he didn't understand sometimes.
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Nov 8, 2015 18:02
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Scratch-O posted:Derek Smart is an insane person who doxxed a 17-year-old disabled kid for cracking wise about him on Twitter. Vox Day could be a literal Neo-Nazi and Smart would still gladly accept his support in the war against Star Citizen. man, Star Citizen is not quite on topic for this thread, but everything about it is awesome. As far as I can tell, literally everyone involved on either side is terrible and thoroughly deserve each other. The closest I managed to a writeup.
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Nov 8, 2015 18:04
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divabot posted:man, Star Citizen is not quite on topic for this thread, but everything about it is awesome. As far as I can tell, literally everyone involved on either side is terrible and thoroughly deserve each other. The closest I managed to a writeup.
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Nov 8, 2015 18:05
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