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Paladinus posted:Even publishers who okay games with female protagonists are anxious when there is female on male kissing/sexing, because their focus groups apparently consist entirely of stereotypical American frat boys or something. I am pretty sure this actually happened to DONTNOD's last game, Remember Me. Decius posted:Nothing you did was meaningless in that sense. The game is about the development of the character of Max after all. That's what made it feel so meaningless to me. The game brings up questions about the town and the people in it, and then drops them to focus on Max. It just doesn't feel as tightly written as it should be. Gotta admit, I respect a game that can include dialogue like "Now you're totally stuck in the Retro Zone. Sadface," and make me ponder the agency and free will of humanity. Argue posted:Regardless of the impact of your choices, I would really appreciate an epilogue where we see what's up with all the characters other than them attending a funeral of someone I didn't even realize they knew. Pretty much. All this ending talk reminds me of a short indie visual novel I played a long while back that has a similar idea. Save the Date (from what I remember of it) has you use foreknowledge to save someone's life, except instead of rewinding time, you restart the game. I thought the ending was clever in that the game builds up to a choice: cancel the date to save your friend's life, or literally rewrite the game to give you a happy ending. The author includes information on how to do exactly that and presents it as a valid choice, yet is your ending still really "valid" or satisfying? I found it pretty interesting when I first played.
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Nov 6, 2015 19:00
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LoseHound posted:All this ending talk reminds me of a short indie visual novel I played a long while back that has a similar idea. Save the Date
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Nov 6, 2015 22:31
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Friend and I played through this and quite enjoyed it though the last episode was absolutely riddled with plot holes to the point where you had to just disengage your critical faculties to have fun with it. Also pulled the poo poo pretty much every choice-heavy game does at the end where they pull some plot poo poo to reset the timeline /whatever to make sure you, the player, know every choice you made was actually worthless. Again, w/e though That ending with all the people Chloe never loving knew at her funeral was inadvertently funny as hell, including goddamn Warren with his red shirt. I am proud to be in the 6% that showed Warren no affection. Dirtbag. Calico Heart fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 02:25
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Calico Heart posted:Friend and I played through this and quite enjoyed it though the last episode was absolutely riddled with plot holes to the point where you had to just disengage your critical faculties to have fun with it. Also pulled the poo poo pretty much every choice-heavy game does at the end where they pull some plot poo poo to reset the timeline /whatever to make sure you, the player, know every choice you made was actually worthless[spoiler]. Again, w/e though 
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Nov 7, 2015 02:28
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Calico Heart posted:I am proud to be in the 6% that showed Warren no affection. Dirtbag. I maintain that there are two truly wrong choices in the game, not letting Nathan get his poo poo kicked in and being a filthy Warren kisser.
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Nov 7, 2015 02:57
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Calico Heart posted:I am proud to be in the 6% that showed Warren no affection. Dirtbag. We, the proud, the righteous, the 6% Hahaha you are so mad
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Nov 7, 2015 03:35
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RightClickSaveAs posted:By my count, David has at least two handguns left still. That we know of  David unexpectedly ended up being one of my favorite characters in the game. The writing is a little broad strokes but there's still enough nuance there to surprise you a couple times. Your last conversation with him in the Dark Room was an amazing way to end his character arc, especially with the two different ways it can go.
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Nov 7, 2015 03:44
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I'm kinda hoping for his redneck, prepper rear end to bust in and save the day, as his big moment of redemption to close out his arc. Although his relationship is really strained with his family in my playthrough.
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Plom Bar posted:No, she won't know any of that. So then...she does know it.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:35
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Subyng posted:So then...she does know it. Not when she leaves the bathroom, is the point. And by the time they came back, so many new things would have happened to make them all moot; Kate's likely been brought in to make some statements, Taylor would have no reason to be worried about her mom (because that situation resolved itself while Max is in zombie mode), and Alyssa would likely be mildly concussed.
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Nov 7, 2015 04:46
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Plom Bar posted:Not when she leaves the bathroom, is the point. And by the time they came back, so many new things would have happened to make them all moot; Kate's likely been brought in to make some statements, Taylor would have no reason to be worried about her mom (because that situation resolved itself while Max is in zombie mode), and Alyssa would likely be mildly concussed. Nonsense. She was given a whole week to hang out with her best friend, that she'd have never gotten otherwise. Like yeah, sure, she can't game her knowledge now to become the coolest girl in school like she did in the side week, but that was never the point of the game. This has never been "Let's make Max a hero awesome person.". It was giving her a chance to have "the best week of her life" with her friend, who was otherwise dead, and to use the events of the game/Chloe to grow as a person. Max recovers her memories of the time lapses at the end. That's presumably what happens when she looks at the butterfly and starts to smile. She doesn't NEED the timelapse information to be a new person anymore. As videogame logicy as it is, she's now newMax. She's confident, knows who she is, and has faith in herself again. As everyone constantly mentioned in Episode 3-5, Max's powers gave her a chance to get out of her shell and start to really bloom as a person, and I doubt that's going to change now. She still knows Victoria is hiding behind her exterior mask, she still knows Taylor is a genuinely good person, she knows she faced down Jefferson, etc etc. She's going to be fine, even without her powers/Chloe. Better yet, she has her memories of hanging out with Chloe again for this last week, memories she'd have never been able to have without these adventures. Jefferson made a point of this, but I don't think anybody really caught it. Old Max was never going to accomplish her dreams. She was too shy, too scared, and too self aware to make her mark on the world. The events of the game changed her in a good way, making her more assertive/sure of her self. I'd actually argue the "Sacrifice Arcadia Bay" ending is a net negative not because it's about a girl being told the consequences of her actions are problematic, but because it's an ending in which Max refuses to grow. She can't let go of Chloe/her past friendship, even at the expense of everything around her. I mean as BobtheJanitor said, this growth is fake as hell, and it's far more likely someone would develop life destroying PTSD from having to go through that week, but the game is pushing the argument that Max grew from it, so whatever. The ending has far, far more issues inherent to it that it feels petty to pick at the stuff people are mainly misrepresenting/misunderstanding.
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Nov 7, 2015 05:12
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I just finished the game and I had a few issues with the ending. First, in the beginning of the game Max finds herself on top of the hill, alone, watching the town get destroyed. This is shown as her future before she even begins to gently caress with time, Chloe isn't there, presumably killed my Nathan, and it felt like okay, if Max does nothing, this is her future. Then it turns out to be the other way around, the only way she can prevent that tornado is to completely ignore the vision of the tornado and do nothing? Maybe if Chloe was seen there in that first vision, even if Max didn't know who it was at that point, it would make more sense that you would end up there with her at the end of the game to make the choice you ultimately have to make. Second, literally every single time Max tries to go back in time things get worse, no matter what she tries to do, and each one physically hurts her more and more. There was no reason to believe that THIS time she won't completely gently caress up something and make things worse again, even while trying to do nothing, or hell, that she'd even survive jumping back again literally minutes after blacking out into a mind-ravaging nightmare. Third, I felt like the "Max causes the tornado" explanation came out of loving nowhere. There were all sorts of weird signs and apocalyptic omens throughout the game, but it never felt like it was a direct result of your time fuckery. Then suddenly in the last hour of the game both Warren and Chloe are convinced of this fact, one of which literally just discovered you have time abilities and instantly knows the truth? After watching both endings I really prefer the one where you sacrifice the town since it doesn't trample on the choices you made through the rest of the game. I kinda understand what you're getting at by saying that the other ending gives Max more character development but it seems to me like the only thing she would've learned is to not help because she'll just make things worse and is destined to hurt those she cares about. If you ignore the poorly telegraphed nonsense about Max causing a Tornado then that ending at least represents that she can still help her friends even when everything else is dire. Alternately: I think a much more interesting variation of the Save Arcadia Bay ending would be one where she travels back through that photo but it's the straw that breaks the camel's back and she ends up collapsing out in the bathroom. She'd wake up in a hospital some time later and look outside to see snowflakes or a dead bird or whatever. She would once again run into the unintended side-effects of visiting the past, presumably Nathan would've walked in and saw someone in the bathroom and bugged out, therefore changing the timeline without Max even intending to. Perhaps Chloe would've been the one to find her and show up in the hospital completely unaware of all the bullshit of the past week, or they could just leave you guessing if she ended up dying some other way, but either way it'd play to the same theme that the other two endings hit, which is ultimately being unable to change fate. Also: I expected way more of a supernatural element out of the game after seeing the ghost deer. I was starting to feel like that ghost deer was Rachel Amber, since it literally leads you to her grave in Episode 2. The entire game was is full of deer and it really felt like they were leading to something, and then the last time you see the ghost deer it is leading you through the only open door in backwards school. Did I miss something or is this just a thread that went nowhere? Ultimately I'm glad I played the game. I did really enjoy what it had to offer. For a game with teenage girls, a slightly cartoony art direction, and txt lingo, I found more dread and actual horror than most of the games that try to be scary. It was actually a little hard to play because the themes of the story and the increasing weight of your choices really started to feel heavy. I just had to make a big effort post while this game was still hot on my mind.
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Nov 7, 2015 06:26
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I think the plot suffers from there being a lot of examples of her trying like 2 things then declaring it hopeless but I think maybe you just have to take that as game logic and assume that offscreen the things we do once or twice and then move on that 'offscreen' that she is also doing it 400 more times and she has scrubbed through the whole time line thousands of times or something and they just didn't want to show that for gameplay reasons or something. The whole game makes more sense if you assume that because almost all the plot holes are her trying one thing then giving up and not trying the 20 other possibilities.
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Nov 7, 2015 06:37
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The game being all about Max growing up reduces Chloe to a cosmic toy, tossed around from tragedy to tragedy until she Life Is Max: "I will abuse my inhuman powers to correct every flaw in my character. I will ruin the sea and the sky, I will destroy the city and then, when it is done, when I go back in time to avoid any consequence, when you have nothing more to offer me... then, Chloe, you have my permission to die."
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Nov 7, 2015 07:00
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Fina posted:Third, I felt like the "Max causes the tornado" explanation came out of loving nowhere. There were all sorts of weird signs and apocalyptic omens throughout the game, but it never felt like it was a direct result of your time fuckery. Then suddenly in the last hour of the game both Warren and Chloe are convinced of this fact, one of which literally just discovered you have time abilities and instantly knows the truth? They actually did bring up the possibility with that conversation about Chaos Theory in episode 2, which they reference at least one more time later. I don't think it's sufficient, and I've posted that it felt like it came out of nowhere myself, but it wasn't completely unforeshadowed. Just mostly! quote:Also: I expected way more of a supernatural element out of the game after seeing the ghost deer. I was starting to feel like that ghost deer was Rachel Amber, since it literally leads you to her grave in Episode 2. The entire game was is full of deer and it really felt like they were leading to something, and then the last time you see the ghost deer it is leading you through the only open door in backwards school. Did I miss something or is this just a thread that went nowhere? Pretty sure it's just a plot thread that went nowhere. The only explanation the game gives to what the deer is comes from Samuel in incidental dialogue: He thinks the deer is Max's spirit animal. If that was the plan, they really dropped the ball giving an explanation in the actual story.
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Nov 7, 2015 07:13
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The thing is the concept of butterfly effect is the antithesis of fate, because by definition the slightest action you perform in the past can drastically change the future. Like the game doesn't even follow that idea at all in the end. Same with chaos theory, because you know, its all about chaos and how you can get totally unpredictable results which is also the antithesis of fate. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 07:23 on Nov 7, 2015 |
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Nov 7, 2015 07:20
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Accordion Man posted:The thing is the concept of butterfly effect is the antithesis of fate, because by definition the slightest action you perform in the past can drastically change the future. Like the game doesn't even follow that idea at all in the end. Right, but they didn't bring up fate there. The idea is that Max's powers and the storm are related, which can be taken to suggest that Max's powers cause the storm (or that she can use them to stop it). This is why it happens every time Max did anything that deviated from normal. It's there, it's just really inelegant, assuming that was their plan all along.
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Nov 7, 2015 07:41
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The nosebleeds and powers taking a toll on Max were pretty clearly intended to mean something in the plot, but got dropped for some reason. As it stands they were completely pointless. I was really expecting some kind of Max nearly passed out, powers failing, last dramatic push at the end where she has to make some kind of supreme sacrifice that could possibly kill her, and then she wakes up in a hospital later, presumably discovering that her powers are gone but that her last act saved someone/everyone. That really felt like the direction they were building up all along. What we got just leaves her with the time powers at the end but probably scared to death to ever use them again.
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Nov 7, 2015 08:34
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I'm personally still a fan of the theory that Max was given powers specifically to enact Arcadia Bay's destruction, the Spirit World counting on her to use the powers recklessly for self-gain, counting on her devotion to Chloe to guide her to twist and mangle the timeline, and counting on her to leave Arcadia Bay to its fate. Afterwards, with her divine work ended, nature is once again allowed to roam free of humanity's stain, and just as suddenly as she was given them, she loses her powers forever. Or at least until the next thoroughly corrupt urban center needs to be wiped off the map. Who knows where her travels with Chloe will take them?
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Nov 7, 2015 10:54
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Plom Bar posted:I'm personally still a fan of the theory that Max was given powers specifically to enact Arcadia Bay's destruction, the Spirit World counting on her to use the powers recklessly for self-gain, counting on her devotion to Chloe to guide her to twist and mangle the timeline, and counting on her to leave Arcadia Bay to its fate. Afterwards, with her divine work ended, nature is once again allowed to roam free of humanity's stain, and just as suddenly as she was given them, she loses her powers forever. Or at least until the next thoroughly corrupt urban center needs to be wiped off the map. Who knows where her travels with Chloe will take them? That would be really stupid. Turn your PC off forever and stop stealing electrical life juices from mother Gaia or she'll send an earthquake on you that will kill thousands. On the other hand, maybe nature wanted to destroy the hive of hipster teenagers that is Blackwell Academy, in which case destruction of a town is not an unreasonable price to pay.
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Nov 7, 2015 11:14
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King of Solomon posted:Right, but they didn't bring up fate there. The idea is that Max's powers and the storm are related, which can be taken to suggest that Max's powers cause the storm (or that she can use them to stop it). This is why it happens every time Max did anything that deviated from normal. It's there, it's just really inelegant, assuming that was their plan all along. Except Chloe says on the cliff, "hey maybe I should accept my fate. think of all the times I died and stuff." I get that Chloe doesn't necessarily know poo poo, but why give her that line unless you want the audience to nod along and say "hmm okay". Did Chloe die in that bathroom and Max could've done something had she not been a big shy nerd all the time, or was there nothing she could do? poo poo sucks for David and Joyce either way. Where's Joyce's time travel adventure to say goodbye to her wayward teen? And I can't help wonder how Max is going to prevent David from doubling down on paranoid surveillance now.
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Nov 7, 2015 11:28
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King of Solomon posted:
That feels like the dual edged sword of this episodic format. If somethings not working you can do a course correction (e.g. it's pretty obvious to me that they realized they made David hard to like so they later gave him more sympathetic qualities and also made him a hero at the end) but also when you have weeks, sometimes months apart from episodes you can lose track of some plot threads l.
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Nov 7, 2015 13:09
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I doubt that, they set it up so Nathan and David would be vilified from the start and its a pretty obvious move in a story with TWISTS that bad guys can inevitably prove they were not bad. It's also a set up for the scene where you have to pick Nathan, David, or Mr. Jefferson to punish in the principals office. They needed to establish two are dickwads to draw you off of the one guy who is actually guilty and then turn things around. "What you mean those guys were actually good and it was Mr. Jefferson who was bad the whole time?? What a development, gasp!" Speaking of which I thought that scene was pretty terrible because you absolutely know Jefferson is going to be a serial killer after that.
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Nov 7, 2015 14:45
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LoseHound posted:Except Chloe says on the cliff, "hey maybe I should accept my fate. think of all the times I died and stuff." I get that Chloe doesn't necessarily know poo poo, but why give her that line unless you want the audience to nod along and say "hmm okay". Did Chloe die in that bathroom and Max could've done something had she not been a big shy nerd all the time, or was there nothing she could do? Right, but they didn't discuss fate while talking about Chaos Theory, where they (poorly) seeded the possibility that Max is causing the storm. Fate didn't meaningfully come up until episode 5 (which, incidentally, is another reason I think they might have changed their plans when developing episode 5.)
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Nov 7, 2015 16:12
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Paladinus posted:That would be really stupid. Turn your PC off forever and stop stealing electrical life juices from mother Gaia or she'll send an earthquake on you that will kill thousands. Joke's on you, I post from my phone 
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Nov 7, 2015 20:47
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Plom Bar posted:Joke's on you, I post from my phone That's even worse. http://www.academia.edu/1746940/MOEF_REPORT_ON_IMPACT_OF_CELL_PHONE_TOWERS_ON_WILDLIFE Remember that dead bird in the game? It died because you wouldn't stop texting.
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Nov 7, 2015 21:25
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King of Solomon posted:Right, but they didn't bring up fate there. The idea is that Max's powers and the storm are related, which can be taken to suggest that Max's powers cause the storm (or that she can use them to stop it). This is why it happens every time Max did anything that deviated from normal. It's there, it's just really inelegant, assuming that was their plan all along. The thing that really annoyed me about the ending is that resumably she still has time travel powers in the final timeline after she chooses to save Acadia Bay/run away. It doesn't seem like anything is resolved. At least in "normal" time travel stories, there's a time machine/magical artifact, some exogenous instigator of events. You at least have an idea of the outcome based on what happens to the machine. Here Max just gets them, they cause a local apocalypse then there's no evidence that they've even gone away. It could easily just happen again.
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Nov 8, 2015 16:05
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Life is Strange...r announced http://alchimy.info/alain-damasio-et-la-puissance-immersive-du-jeu-video-partie-1/ quote:je vais participer à la suite, Life is Strange 2. "I'll be working on the sequel, Life is Strange 2"
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Nov 8, 2015 16:47
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Says he worked as a script doctor on the first game. Ep5 explained?
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Nov 8, 2015 17:13
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CottonWolf posted:The thing that really annoyed me about the ending is that resumably she still has time travel powers in the final timeline after she chooses to save Acadia Bay/run away. It doesn't seem like anything is resolved. At least in "normal" time travel stories, there's a time machine/magical artifact, some exogenous instigator of events. You at least have an idea of the outcome based on what happens to the machine. Here Max just gets them, they cause a local apocalypse then there's no evidence that they've even gone away. It could easily just happen again. Yep. That being said, I'd imagine given how much of a traumatic experience this week is, Max probably wouldn't deliberately use her powers again. She'll just have them and never use them. It's really stupid.
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Nov 8, 2015 17:48
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It would be a whole lot more convincing too if the tornado looked like space-time being torn a new rear end in a top hat instead of just some normal tornado that doesn't look unnatural at all. Some of the art even had the tornado glowing from the inside which looked way creepier and unnatural.
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Nov 8, 2015 18:03
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Kurtofan posted:Life is Strange...r announced I could do with another season of this game with maybe a fluid killer that changes based on your choices. I'd be totally cool with narrowing the scope or amount of branches needed if the 3-4 it had actually led to totally different experiences rather then all roads lead to one final choice that dictates one of two outcomes. Maybe the sheer amount of variations prevent this in this kind of genre or having to not have any kind of game ending fail state to avoid pissing people off. How'd until dawn do? Same deal? e: I still really liked it, and was one of those people that did not see the killer reveal coming at all. zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 23:09
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zer0spunk posted:I could do with another season of this game with maybe a fluid killer that changes based on your choices. I'd be totally cool with narrowing the scope or amount of branches needed if the 3-4 it had actually led to totally different experiences rather then all roads lead to one final choice that dictates one of two outcomes. Maybe the sheer amount of variations prevent this in this kind of genre or having to not have any kind of game ending fail state to avoid pissing people off. That could be interesting, sure. Personally, though, I'd be happy with a tightly executed ending that takes your choices into account. Using this first season as an example, let's say there's an ending where you stop the storm without killing Chloe (more or less the ending I thought they were going for right up until the choice itself happened.) In this case, given my choices, most of the town would probably be cool with my Max, but David would still be in a hotel, Frank would make some serious choices with where his life would go, Warren would go on that date with Brooke, etc., etc. But if you play things differently than I did, maybe Max goes out with Warren, maybe Frank keeps going with the drug business, and David has a happy family life with Joyce and Chloe. There's a lot of interesting fluidity there that you can get with even just a single ending. Hell, you could even get that same amount of fluidity out of a Sacrifice Arcadia Bay choice; but instead of "Sacrifice Arcadia Bay," you get "Evacuate Arcadia Bay" and you leave the town itself to be destroyed. You get the option to go back slightly and get people to evacuate before the storm strikes, but what happens in that ending changes based on your choices. Because you were a dick to Warren and David, they stick around. Maybe if you fail to save Alyssa every episode she ignores your warning. Maybe Victoria only heeds your warning if you don't warn her about Nathan at the party. That kind of thing is all I think the game needs. I do like your idea though; if they executed it well enough that could be really cool. E: Hell, you already get the option to warn the homeless woman. King of Solomon fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 23:33
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Yeah, that would be an interesting way to do it. What if Max warped back to the bathroom photo and then warned people that this is going to happen. If she predicted a freak snowstorm, eclipse, and dual moons they SHOULD believe her when she says a Tornado is also on the way. I also wish one of the options when you warp back into class at the beginning of the game was to spill your guts in Jefferson's class about everything he has done with Nathan and the Dark Room. Even if you did have to rewind instantly I'd love to watch Jefferson squirm.
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Nov 9, 2015 00:19
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Fina posted:Yeah, that would be an interesting way to do it. What if Max warped back to the bathroom photo and then warned people that this is going to happen. If she predicted a freak snowstorm, eclipse, and dual moons they SHOULD believe her when she says a Tornado is also on the way. We've already got the best ending we're gonna get: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn67F0F_i1c
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Nov 9, 2015 01:02
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Holy poo poo.  What an ending that would be.
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Nov 9, 2015 02:15
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This thread has got some diamonds in it on this last page, hot drat. Also, I was seriously expecting Celine Dion to start playing at some point watching that; no idea why.
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Nov 9, 2015 04:19
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Reclaimer posted:We've already got the best ending we're gonna get: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qn67F0F_i1c This is glorious.
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Nov 9, 2015 05:28
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Awesome interview from Damasio, even though he later said that the sequel is not confirmed yet. (BTW to all French speakers hanging around here: read "La Horde du Contrevent" it's amazingly well written and engaging) Anyway, regarding episode 5 I got caught in a Dark Tower-style dilemma when I reached the art gallery part of the episode. I knew deep down that I should probably stop playing there and that continuing the story would only leave a bad taste in my mouth but I ultimately decided to carry on and immediately regretted it. This was probably the closest thing to a happy ending the game provided us (minus the phone call at the end of course) and I sat a really long time thinking about whether I should just call it a day or not. Did anyone else have that same pause ?
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Nov 12, 2015 12:19
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Plom Bar posted:No, she won't know any of that. She usually jumps into herself in the past, has the memories of her "future" self until she leaves. The thing is, she doesn't leave this time. She never will leave again. She stays in her body, she retains the memory. The butterfly scene and her smile makes that pretty clear, together with her visit at the lighthouse. In other news, a physical box edition will be released: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/12/life-is-strange-limited-edition/ Decius fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 12, 2015 17:52
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Decius posted:In other news, a physical box edition will be released: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/11/12/life-is-strange-limited-edition/ Slightly disappointed (though not surprised) that the PC version will be Steam-bound. Still a nifty package though!
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Nov 12, 2015 18:05
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