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Excuse me sir, SHOOT GUNNER is the best Metal Gear henchman 
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Nov 8, 2015 04:35
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MinibarMatchman posted:I figured as much. A shitload about guys like Zero, even Big Boss himself, was retconned over and over as the series got larger. A lot of it is insane but at the same time it's kind of astounding how the writers found ways to keep tying things together. poo poo, even the "Big Boss dies but still comes back in MG2" plothole was filled with the equally insane ending to MGSV. It's really just staggering how broad this poo poo was created. and whats funny is that's probably the simplest and most logical retcon they have ever done. Its kinda of an occam's razor in a series where they never have them. why is BB in MG2 after he got blown up in mg1. because it wasn't him. done. plus it opens up a interesting story ideas. its a thousand times better then mgs4's "nanomachines did everything ever" and "zero is behind everything because he was a close to the boss as you were but we wont explain that to you in this game" 5 may not have had the best mgs story, built it did a better job at filling in plot-holes and character motivations retcons then 4 did. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Nov 8, 2015 |
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Nov 8, 2015 04:56
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Mgs5 created a huge new plothole though, Big Boss having no idea about how Zero felt in mgs4, despite the entire Venom Snake thing and 9 year hosptial stay
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Nov 8, 2015 05:15
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Deploying on sideops as my avatar dude, and holy poo poo that horn just looks janky as gently caress on this goober. That's probably mostly due to the fact the Snake face is so much more detailed than the custom faces you can make, although there's also the problem where the horn clips through your hair if you use the default hairstyle. Speaking of hairstyles, why are there so few of those here? At least let me rock a mullet. This is Metal Gear and the 80s, so mullets should be everywhere.
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Nov 8, 2015 05:31
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Ekusukariba posted:Mgs5 created a huge new plothole though, Big Boss having no idea about how Zero felt in mgs4, despite the entire Venom Snake thing and 9 year hosptial stay I don't think anyone told Snake who came up with and funded the whole plan to be honest.
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Nov 8, 2015 05:38
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Zero was probably like "I love Snake. I want to give him the chance to try things his way, but he won't accept my help. No, this must be kept secret. For my gift to him to work, he must never know that I have helped him. I must remain outside his heaven."
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Nov 8, 2015 05:43
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That loving Sned posted:The only problem with the gameplay is how hard it's made going back to any of the earlier ones. Well see I know everyone thought they were gonna get that story but historically every time they go back and try to explain past stuff they don't give people what they want at all. People just wanna see like, Kid Sniper Wolf but you know they're gonna nanomachine it up and introduce 20 new characters that you somehow never heard of instead
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Nov 8, 2015 08:38
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Ekusukariba posted:Mgs5 created a huge new plothole though, Big Boss having no idea about how Zero felt in mgs4, despite the entire Venom Snake thing and 9 year hosptial stay The only person who knows any of that was Ocelot
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Nov 8, 2015 15:49
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I finally beat the drat thing last night, and then spent around another hour listening to tapes and watching cut footage and poo poo. Act two is... totally pointless? There's absolutely nothing added to the plot or characterization other than suddenly finding what's up with Quite and then the last mission, which has no narrative build up and no narrative after effects. It just suddenly happens. What triggers "The Truth?" And while I think a lot of the fallout was intentionally vague and ambiguous, there's still the disturbing question at the end of how much Venom Snake knew, when he knew it, and what his response was to it. Surly the ending cut-scene, when he plays the tape from "The Man Who Sold The World" can't be when he learns for the first time - the other side is his instructions from Big Boss on how to deal with Solid Snake in Metal Gear 1. So does he learn around when you do the mission, 1984? But carries on anyway? And if he's apparently so cool knowing that he's just Big Boss's body double (which apparently he is, since he stays in that role from 1984-1995) why is the final cutscene with his face shifting from your avatar's, to big boss, to demon snake's, so troubled and weird and ambiguous? I don't dislike the idea that Naked Snake embraced his role as Big Boss's body double - he was in MSF and so presumably shared his ideals for years - but then why would his dual (tri?) identity bother him? Why show Demon Snake, why punch the mirror? Basically my question is: was Venom Snake happy being one half of Big Boss or not? If he was, why is the ending so painful and weird? If he wasn't, why stay as him until his death? basically it was a cool twist (even though I had the majority of it spoiled for me ages ago) and don't at all dislike the ambiguous characterization of the protagonist, but I feel like that ambiguity fits badly with the timeline.
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Nov 8, 2015 18:57
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Digital Osmosis posted:I finally beat the drat thing last night, and then spent around another hour listening to tapes and watching cut footage and poo poo. Act two is... totally pointless? There's absolutely nothing added to the plot or characterization other than suddenly finding what's up with Quite and then the last mission, which has no narrative build up and no narrative after effects. It just suddenly happens. What triggers "The Truth?" And while I think a lot of the fallout was intentionally vague and ambiguous, there's still the disturbing question at the end of how much Venom Snake knew, when he knew it, and what his response was to it. Surly the ending cut-scene, when he plays the tape from "The Man Who Sold The World" can't be when he learns for the first time - the other side is his instructions from Big Boss on how to deal with Solid Snake in Metal Gear 1. So does he learn around when you do the mission, 1984? But carries on anyway? And if he's apparently so cool knowing that he's just Big Boss's body double (which apparently he is, since he stays in that role from 1984-1995) why is the final cutscene with his face shifting from your avatar's, to big boss, to demon snake's, so troubled and weird and ambiguous? I don't dislike the idea that Naked Snake embraced his role as Big Boss's body double - he was in MSF and so presumably shared his ideals for years - but then why would his dual (tri?) identity bother him? Why show Demon Snake, why punch the mirror? Basically my question is: was Venom Snake happy being one half of Big Boss or not? If he was, why is the ending so painful and weird? If he wasn't, why stay as him until his death? I don't Hate part 2 as much as i probably should. To me it kinda of shows how fast the honeymoon period ends with the diamond dogs.
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Nov 8, 2015 19:02
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Dapper_Swindler posted:I don't Hate part 2 as much as i probably should. To me it kinda of shows how fast the honeymoon period ends with the diamond dogs. I always thought Diamond Dogs were kinda stupid anyway, but that might just be because Kaz is honestly the worst. Not the worst MGS character, not the worst video game character, not the worst character - just straight up the worst. I figured Snake went along with it because a) he was confused and b) it was in his wheelhouse. He developed some loyalty to his men because he's not a monster. But Kaz is all like "We're out here changing the world! Congrats Snake, we disarmed all the nuclear bombs and ensured world peace! Now go assassinate these leaders that politicians find annoying. We have to stop cipher from acquiring too much power over people, if we don't they'll be unstoppable! Now go acquire power over people until we're unstoppable!" I didn't even realize until 3/4ths of the way through this game that Kaz and "Master Miller" from MGS1 were supposed to be the same person (also because of the weird shifting ethnicity thing) and when I did and when I bear it all I could think was "oh thank god Ocelot finally put him down." what an rear end
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Nov 8, 2015 19:12
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Doc Morbid posted:Deploying on sideops as my avatar dude, and holy poo poo that horn just looks janky as gently caress on this goober. That's probably mostly due to the fact the Snake face is so much more detailed than the custom faces you can make, although there's also the problem where the horn clips through your hair if you use the default hairstyle. I really wanted a Rambo mullet too. This would have been the perfect game for it. I'm also really bummed that the Naked Snake Fatigues costume (which looks cool) doesn't give the option to use that Naked Snake face they'd already modeled for that final pre-launch trailer. 
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Nov 8, 2015 19:21
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Act 2 would make sense if it was just optional challenge missions. The quiet stuff and mission 46 should have been available as soon as you beat the main game IMHO.
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Nov 8, 2015 19:32
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Digital Osmosis posted:I finally beat the drat thing last night, and then spent around another hour listening to tapes and watching cut footage and poo poo. Act two is... totally pointless? There's absolutely nothing added to the plot or characterization other than suddenly finding what's up with Quite and then the last mission, which has no narrative build up and no narrative after effects. It just suddenly happens. What triggers "The Truth?" And while I think a lot of the fallout was intentionally vague and ambiguous, there's still the disturbing question at the end of how much Venom Snake knew, when he knew it, and what his response was to it. Surly the ending cut-scene, when he plays the tape from "The Man Who Sold The World" can't be when he learns for the first time - the other side is his instructions from Big Boss on how to deal with Solid Snake in Metal Gear 1. So does he learn around when you do the mission, 1984? But carries on anyway? And if he's apparently so cool knowing that he's just Big Boss's body double (which apparently he is, since he stays in that role from 1984-1995) why is the final cutscene with his face shifting from your avatar's, to big boss, to demon snake's, so troubled and weird and ambiguous? I don't dislike the idea that Naked Snake embraced his role as Big Boss's body double - he was in MSF and so presumably shared his ideals for years - but then why would his dual (tri?) identity bother him? Why show Demon Snake, why punch the mirror? Basically my question is: was Venom Snake happy being one half of Big Boss or not? If he was, why is the ending so painful and weird? If he wasn't, why stay as him until his death? The mirror punching is both him hating that his life was stolen without his consent and also acknowledging the fact that he really is a badass with his own private army. "I got hosed over really hard but I am, quite literally, Big Boss." As for "why does he stay as Big Boss until he dies", what else was he going to do? He joined MSF 9 years ago for the same reasons everyone else did: all he knows how to be is a soldier. He full-on believed in Big Boss's idea/vision/dream behind Outer Heaven and now he's in charge of it. Might as well let it rock.
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Nov 8, 2015 19:46
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if there's any free dlc that needs to come out it's Subsistence/Extreme modes for every mission. Subsistence is an entirely new challenge and I loved the few times you get those missions, but I can't wait to replay tons of older stuff with my new toys. so many missions are so lovingly crafted with possibilities it's crazy. I just wish they'd also patch in the possibility for using Quiet postending because that still really sucks.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:06
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MinibarMatchman posted:if there's any free dlc that needs to come out it's Subsistence/Extreme modes for every mission. Subsistence is an entirely new challenge and I loved the few times you get those missions, but I can't wait to replay tons of older stuff with my new toys. so many missions are so lovingly crafted with possibilities it's crazy. I just wish they'd also patch in the possibility for using Quiet postending because that still really sucks. Yeah, from the pre-release impressions of people who got to play the game early and write about it, I figured the Total Stealth, Subsistence, and Extreme modifiers would be applicable to any mission. And while I can see how Subsistence might break some missions, it seems like it could work with the majority of them, especially considering you can kinda cheese it with the helicopter if needed. Chapter 2 for me is stuff that all could have been worked into Chapter 1, but I did kind of enjoy seeing Kaz going all paranoid and looking for the enemy within. Even when you factor in the cut episode 51, the plot does kind of awkwardly and abruptly end. While I enjoyed the plot for the most part, I really think that parts of it are unorganized (put Shining Lights, Even in Death prior to the Skullface murder scene, for example). And it honestly could have done with more cutscenes. Even if you were to just plow though the story missions, your playtime would probably still overshadow every other game in the series, and the cutscenes that are there are just too sparse for how long the game is. Another thing, there's that Logs menu in the iDroid that supposed to have cutscenes and stuff like that to view, like you could in Ground Zeroes. Was that feature cut or what?
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Nov 8, 2015 20:20
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Considering there are only like 3 missions in the entire game that can't be beaten with no weapons or distractions whatsoever, there's no reason not to enable Subsistence on every mission and just make sure there's a stack of grenades available somewhere in the mission area for those handful of eventualities. Extreme is just a modifier to enemy readiness and response, so any mission could do it. Likewise Total Stealth is just a game over trigger on detection. They seriously could have just allowed those to be toggled for any mission, but didn't, probably because they ran out of time and/or wanted padding missions so they spun off replays with rulesets into "new" missions.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:25
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Replayed Ground Zeroes last night, does Chico's weird chest/headphone thing mean that he's being tested with vocal cord parasites even in the 70s? Because if so, good lord, between a direct frontal assault on Mother Base, Paz's assorted inserted explosives, and Chico having parasites, Skull Face wanted Big Boss dead bad. Sure, taking out a whole hospital to get one guy proves that enough but that parasite thing must have been a pet project.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:32
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Digital Osmosis posted:
Liquid is supposedly the one who killed him.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:37
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notZaar posted:Liquid is supposedly the one who killed him. Its unclear, MGS1 and Novel implies Liquid, Peace Walker says its an unknown assaliant, and MGSV implies Ocelot will do it
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Nov 8, 2015 20:41
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Dewgy posted:Replayed Ground Zeroes last night, does Chico's weird chest/headphone thing mean that he's being tested with vocal cord parasites even in the 70s? Seems that way. It's also weird to me that Chico is basically killed off-screen and only referenced in a cassette tape with that in mind. I guess it could be Skull Face covering all contingencies, but it seems like Chico was meant to be a character (not Quiet = Chico) in Phantom Pain in some way.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:46
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Ekusukariba posted:Its unclear, MGS1 and Novel implies Liquid, Peace Walker says its an unknown assaliant, and MGSV implies Ocelot will do it MGSV implies that Ocelot and Miller end up on opposite sides, but in similar roles, backing up one of the clones. It's more likely Ocelot got Liquid to do it.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:48
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Seems that way. It's also weird to me that Chico is basically killed off-screen and only referenced in a cassette tape with that in mind. I guess it could be Skull Face covering all contingencies, but it seems like Chico was meant to be a character (not Quiet = Chico) in Phantom Pain in some way.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:53
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Ekusukariba posted:Its unclear, MGS1 and Novel implies Liquid, Peace Walker says its an unknown assaliant, and MGSV implies Ocelot will do it Oh I hadn't realized the series has gotten to the point where MGS1 itself started getting retconned.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:55
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NeilPerry posted:MGSV implies that Ocelot and Miller end up on opposite sides, but in similar roles, backing up one of the clones. It's more likely Ocelot got Liquid to do it. I mean, you can argue that he's only predicting and doesn't know here, but in general, given how straightforward most of the 'some day in the future, x will happen', I think it should probably be taken at face value that Ocelot probably did it. Besides, it'd be more poignant that way.
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Nov 8, 2015 20:56
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notZaar posted:Liquid is supposedly the one who killed him. Liquid issued the order to have Miller killed but there's no way he could've done it personally. Miller didn't live anywhere near Shadow Moses island and it's incredibly dumb to think that Liquid could've teleported to Miller's cabin in the woods, killed Miller, then teleported back to Shadow Moses to impersonate Miller so quickly during the course of the MGS1 story.
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Nov 8, 2015 21:09
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Elephant Ambush posted:Liquid issued the order to have Miller killed but there's no way he could've done it personally. Miller didn't live anywhere near Shadow Moses island and it's incredibly dumb to think that Liquid could've teleported to Miller's cabin in the woods, killed Miller, then teleported back to Shadow Moses to impersonate Miller so quickly during the course of the MGS1 story. Well Miller was dead for at least 3 days before Shadow Moses happened
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Nov 8, 2015 21:19
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Elephant Ambush posted:Liquid issued the order to have Miller killed but there's no way he could've done it personally. Miller didn't live anywhere near Shadow Moses island and it's incredibly dumb to think that Liquid could've teleported to Miller's cabin in the woods, killed Miller, then teleported back to Shadow Moses to impersonate Miller so quickly during the course of the MGS1 story. Pretty sure they say Miller's been dead for three days when they find his body in MGS1, so before Solid Snake even swims to the docks. I'm still a proponent of 'Ocelot killed Miller' because that is a more dramatic and cooler scene in my head than Liquid doing it, just saying that's plenty of time to hop in your Hind D and do whatever. I'm more interested in MGS2 mentioning Miller's daughter Catherine, who is hopefully the protagonist of MGS: Rerevengeance. Also, I don't know if it is coincidence or not, but I really like Huey being put adrift in the raft, tossing off his legs to not drown while Ocelot comments about how he'll have to face up to the man he is some day -> Huey drowning himself later in life -> Emma's aquaphobia. Huey is just awful and pathological, and it is kinda cool that they went so hard in on him just being completely delusional. Even in his Peacewalker tapes, there's a lot of weirdness to him, a lot of self-delusion, etc. And it is kinda cool that it comes out as Huey being awful rather than just him being naive. I mean, however naive you are, you can't look at Hot Coldman and say 'this is a man who is going to bring peace to the world if I help him build an automated nuclear-equipped mobile launch platform.'
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Nov 8, 2015 21:19
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Yeah everything about Huey in this game was fantastic. He was the best and also the loving worst.
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Nov 8, 2015 21:32
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Huey, Zero, and Kaz (for the most part) are so drat good in this game that it really helps smooth out some of the problems I had with the plot. Huey is a great characterization of a pathological liar. Zero has way more pathos than I ever would have thought he'd have given what you learn about him in MGS4 and Peace Walker. And Kaz does more to sell the REVENGE theme than anybody else. The voice work for all three is just fantastic.
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Nov 8, 2015 21:36
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:someone dug up stuff suggesting that Chico was meant to be found in Africa somewhere, apparently. The more I hear about poo poo that didn't happen in this game the more I want to see it.  I really like how different Ground Zeroes feels compared to Phantom Pain in retrospect too. I mean, it should anyway, you're not playing as the same guy.
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Nov 8, 2015 21:38
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Ekusukariba posted:Well Miller was dead for at least 3 days before Shadow Moses happened gently caress, you're right. 
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Nov 8, 2015 21:49
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Did liquid do WTC? I am like 90% sure Liquid did 9/11
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Nov 8, 2015 22:10
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JoshVanValkenburg posted:Did liquid do WTC? I am like 90% sure Liquid did 9/11 Why do people keep bringing this up? Just because of that shot of 1984-era downtown Manhattan at the end of the mission 51 video? The twin towers were just an iconic part of the city-scape back then.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:22
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JoshVanValkenburg posted:Did liquid do WTC? I am like 90% sure Liquid did 9/11 notZaar posted:Why do people keep bringing this up? Just because of that shot of 1984-era downtown Manhattan at the end of the mission 51 video? The twin towers were just an iconic part of the city-scape back then. Are you guys joking? I honestly can't tell if that's something people have been seriously suggesting or you're just taking the piss ...
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Nov 8, 2015 22:27
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notZaar posted:Why do people keep bringing this up? Just because of that shot of 1984-era downtown Manhattan at the end of the mission 51 video? The twin towers were just an iconic part of the city-scape back then. The Patriots did it and/or let it happen to control the course of history. Duh.
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Nov 8, 2015 23:15
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Liquid didn't literally do 9/11, but Solidus kind of did the MGS universe's version of it in the not-depicted yet probably-canonical ending to MGS2.
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Nov 9, 2015 01:32
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Did Solid Snake get blamed for that too? I mean Solidus was going around saying he was Solid.
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Nov 9, 2015 01:41
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I'm not sure they ever explained what people assumed when former President George Sears turned up dead from katana wounds in the wreckage of Federal Hall while wearing a Doctor Octopus suit. I don't even know how you would.
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Nov 9, 2015 03:07
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Nakar posted:I'm not sure they ever explained what people assumed when former President George Sears turned up dead from katana wounds in the wreckage of Federal Hall while wearing a Doctor Octopus suit. I don't even know how you would. Just as weird to me is how nobody thought to do some investigative journalism during his campaign to find out that he literally commanded a Small Boy Unit in the Liberian Civil War like 15 years earlier.
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Nov 9, 2015 03:08
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