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BetterToRuleInHell posted:If the withdrawal of subsidies was really due to Obamacare, why does that fall on the university? And how does a university begin to follow up on 'some guy yelled something at me from a car'? If the withdrawal of subsidies was due to Obamacare it was because the insurance was so lovely that it did not qualify as insurance under Obamacare. As for the "some guy yelled something at me from a car" its more that there is a culture of racism and the school's administration taking a bit of a laissez faire attitude about it. The problem is cultural and the only way to change that is to be very strict, vocal and for the administration to get out ahead of the issue. Racism needs to be seen as something shameful, not something you pay some lip service to whenever something gets too much media attention.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:26
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Sir Tonk posted:Gonna go ahead and say that I wish they hadn't included the "admit your white privilege" part in their demands, cause that's how this is going to get framed and all the incidents leading up to the protests will be forgotten. Don't worry, they would have instead have shifted it to something else. There's never a perfect enough victim. stinkles1112 posted:For some definitions of "safe place", yeah of course they do. They have an obligation to protect their students from physical harm, which it seems they've done just fine. They have an obligation to harshly punish racism and hate speech, which again it seems they've done even if maybe they could have been more diligent about it, i.e. making a statement or taking some kind of action or something about the student association president getting "friend of the family" yelled at him from the car. Where is it that the administration fell so short that the president's resignation was warranted? The healthcare notifications, the lack of response to racist vandalism, the horrible way he's handled issues with the students? Like its university president 101 that you actually talk to the protesters or backup, you don't have your driver drive through the protesters, that just pisses them off more.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:28
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hobbesmaster posted:If the withdrawal of subsidies was due to Obamacare it was because the insurance was so lovely that it did not qualify as insurance under Obamacare. Expelling racist students is laissez faire? Furthermore how exactly do you get "ahead" of the situation?
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Nov 9, 2015 18:28
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Amergin posted:Expelling racist students is laissez faire? Only expelling students when theres media attention is.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:29
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Amergin posted:Expelling racist students is laissez faire? If they'd had actually expelled all the racists and not just the one who called a bunch of black students "friend of the family" in public, that sure would have been amazing to watch. Not sure how they could catch them, maybe some racist honeypot or the university's IT big brother skills.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:30
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Amergin posted:Furthermore how exactly do you get "ahead" of the situation? Pretty much every school just has a meaningless assembly after a racial incident, maybe a vigil, and it's mostly forgotten about.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:30
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Trabisnikof posted:The healthcare notifications, the lack of response to racist vandalism, the horrible way he's handled issues with the students? Like its university president 101 that you actually talk to the protesters or backup, you don't have your driver drive through the protesters, that just pisses them off more. The healthcare thing is totally legit. However, and maybe I'm just being insensitive here, but somebody drawing a swastika on the bathroom wall in poop doesn't, to me, seem like the kind of thing that warrants a response from anybody but the janitor. Like, there are probably swastikas on the majority of American public bathroom stall walls at this point.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:31
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Amergin posted:Expelling racist students is laissez faire? Though their first and second demands were a little, let's say, ambitious, the rest of their demands were about combating the culture of racism on campus through increased minority representation and educational outreach to deal with a culture of racism that has existed since 1950. So maybe the poo poo swastika on its own doesn't seem like a significant inciting event, taken as part of a culture of racism that's existed for decades, well we're just at the endgame.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:31
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Don't forget that Wolfe also blamed black students for their own oppression. I can't blame them for being pissed off.quote:Some of those students were present at UMKC to meet with Wolfe. In the video, students asked him a question. At first, he responded by telling them “I will give you an answer, and I’m sure it will be a wrong answer.”
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Nov 9, 2015 18:31
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Amergin posted:Furthermore how exactly do you get "ahead" of the situation? Well you could start with having a "this is racism, don't be racist" message along with the "this is rape, don't rape people" messages everywhere.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:32
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Kro-Bar posted:Don't forget that Wolfe also blamed black students for their own oppression. I can't blame them for being pissed off. Hahahaha ok well a clearer picture begins to come together here huh
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Nov 9, 2015 18:33
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Amergin posted:Expelling racist students is laissez faire? Bobby Conn has a recommendation: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rm9dzLxLvxc
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Nov 9, 2015 18:33
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hobbesmaster posted:Only expelling students when theres media attention is. Do we have evidence of cases where the racist student's identity was known and yet nothing was done? hobbesmaster posted:Well you could start with having a "this is racism, don't be racist" message along with the "this is rape, don't rape people" messages everywhere. You mean like a mandatory training for incoming students and faculty for diversity awareness?
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Nov 9, 2015 18:35
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Here are the demands that Concerned Student 1950 submitted to the University.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:35
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stinkles1112 posted:Hahahaha ok well a clearer picture begins to come together here huh Yeah, the picture painted by former black students of Mizzou around here and TFF has been much less rosy than that one post by a current student in GBS. Also willing to bet GBS poster is white.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:35
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Lotka Volterra posted:Also willing to bet GBS poster is white. If I were a betting man... 
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Nov 9, 2015 18:36
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Lotka Volterra posted:Yeah, the picture painted by former black students of Mizzou around here and TFF has been much less rosy than that one post by a current student in GBS. Also willing to bet GBS poster is white. Well yeah I mean I wasn't trying to imply that I was just taking that guy's word for it, the main thing is that I didn't really understand where the University President fit into the whole equation and why his resignation would be so high on their demand list, and a cursory Googling didn't turn up anything too egregious.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:37
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Sir Tonk posted:
oh no, this is going to be framed in right wing media in a way that's denigrating and insulting to the anti-racist activists if only they had used different wording then this would not have been portrayed as PC gone mad 
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Nov 9, 2015 18:39
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Lotka Volterra posted:Yeah, the picture painted by former black students of Mizzou around here and TFF has been much less rosy than that one post by a current student in GBS. Also willing to bet GBS poster is white. Did he paint it in feces?
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Nov 9, 2015 18:40
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I think systemic discrimination is a valid complain at a place that's so racist that people are literally making GBS threads swastikas.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:40
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Teflon Don posted:Did he paint it in feces? Jury's still out on this one.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:41
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BUBBA GAY DUDLEY posted:I think systemic discrimination is a valid complain at a place that's so racist that people are literally making GBS threads swastikas. Can we fire the POTUS for all the swastikas etched in bathroom stalls across the country? Someone must be held accountable, damnit! This country is not a safe space!
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Nov 9, 2015 18:41
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Swastikas and the "cool S" are a pretty common feature in bathrooms across America. I know this as a toiletlord you see.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:42
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Teflon Don posted:Swastikas and the "cool S" are a pretty common feature in bathrooms across America. I know this as a toiletlord you see. As a toilet given human form, I wait
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Nov 9, 2015 18:43
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Amergin posted:Can we fire the POTUS for all the swastikas etched in bathroom stalls across the country? If there were a bunch of swastikas etched (or better yet, painted with poo poo) into White House bathrooms and (god knows why) Obama said that "Systematic oppression is your fault", I'm pretty sure impeachment proceedings would start yesterday.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:43
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It is fair to argue that we can go too far and to the point where we sacrifice freedom of expression in the name of 'safe spaces'. Mizzou isn't so much an example of that, there's been a lot of racist incidents recently and the university's response has been poo poo. If you want an example where the safe spaces are more poorly thought out, you can look at what's happening at Yale where Yale students are demanding the resignation of an associate master because she sent an e-mail decrying the Dean of Students' e-mail about racist halloween costumes as too overbroad and stifling of free expression.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:43
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Maybe the grad students and the football team can unionihahhaha
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Nov 9, 2015 18:44
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pathetic little tramp posted:It is fair to argue that we can go too far and to the point where we sacrifice freedom of expression in the name of 'safe spaces'. Mizzou isn't so much an example of that, there's been a lot of racist incidents recently and the university's response has been poo poo. If you want an example where the safe spaces are more poorly thought out, you can look at what's happening at Yale where Yale students are demanding the resignation of an associate master because she sent an e-mail decrying the Dean of Students' e-mail about racist halloween costumes as too overbroad and stifling of free expression. Those people were yelling in that professors face, and in general wayyyyy too close, and should be arrested to be honest.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:44
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MickeyFinn posted:CNN is calling the Mizzou protests "racial unrest" in the banners and showing footage of black students protesting. Good lord, what a horrible way to portray the situation.  Why is CNN so, so bad? 
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Nov 9, 2015 18:45
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pathetic little tramp posted:It is fair to argue that we can go too far and to the point where we sacrifice freedom of expression in the name of 'safe spaces'. Mizzou isn't so much an example of that, there's been a lot of racist incidents recently and the university's response has been poo poo. If you want an example where the safe spaces are more poorly thought out, you can look at what's happening at Yale where Yale students are demanding the resignation of an associate master because she sent an e-mail decrying the Dean of Students' e-mail about racist halloween costumes as too overbroad and stifling of free expression. There's even a video of it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IEFD_JVYd0
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Nov 9, 2015 18:46
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Lotka Volterra posted:If there were a bunch of swastikas etched (or better yet, painted with poo poo) into White House bathrooms and (god knows why) Obama said that "Systematic oppression is your fault", I'm pretty sure impeachment proceedings would start yesterday. Perhaps this would be the only way to get the Republicans in Congress to seriously attack racism.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:46
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Dr. Tough posted:There's even a video of it: Kinda reminds me of the people that yell at campus preachers. I mean, yeah, they're awful shitheads (not saying this is the case with Yale professor in question) but what are you actually accomplishing aside from catharsis? I find that behavior actively annoying. foobardog posted:Perhaps this would be the only way to get the Republicans in Congress to seriously attack racism. Maybe we can get Obama to just start supporting every one of their talking points and maybe they'll become raging socialists. Has anyone looked into this?
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Nov 9, 2015 18:47
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Teflon Don posted:Maybe the grad students and the football team can unionihahhaha Don't laugh too hard Don, the card campaign has been underway for weeks  .
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Nov 9, 2015 18:49
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pathetic little tramp posted:It is fair to argue that we can go too far and to the point where we sacrifice freedom of expression in the name of 'safe spaces'. Mizzou isn't so much an example of that, there's been a lot of racist incidents recently and the university's response has been poo poo. If you want an example where the safe spaces are more poorly thought out, you can look at what's happening at Yale where Yale students are demanding the resignation of an associate master because she sent an e-mail decrying the Dean of Students' e-mail about racist halloween costumes as too overbroad and stifling of free expression. To be fair I think all of the demands given by the Mizzou 1950 organization are valid (and your comparison to Yale is spot on in terms of "this is how to do it" versus "this is how not to do it") and the president should step down - not because he's racist (although his right wing bootstraps/opportunity talking point was hilariously inept) or because of his "white privilege" but because he and his PR team are loving idiots. However to include in the list of demands that he "acknowledge his white privilege" and "acknowledge that systematic oppression exists" is just laughable. Kick him out, encourage more diversity on campus and on the staff and that will all do more to bolster your message than some silly goddamn useless BLM rhetoric at the outset.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:49
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Dr. Tough posted:There's even a video of it: Yeah this is a really good way to never have anyone sympathize with you. It's hard enough for me to sympathize with a kid getting a $170000 Ivy League education complaining about "safe spaces" in the first place, like, you better make a drat good case
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Nov 9, 2015 18:52
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Why are you using scare quotes around the term safe places.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:52
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Were all the 1950 demands focused on race stuff or did they want to change the grad student health care thing as well?
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Nov 9, 2015 18:52
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Amergin posted:To be fair I think all of the demands given by the Mizzou 1950 organization are valid (and your comparison to Yale is spot on in terms of "this is how to do it" versus "this is how not to do it") and the president should step down - not because he's racist (although his right wing bootstraps/opportunity talking point was hilariously inept) or because of his "white privilege" but because he and his PR team are loving idiots. Given that he was quoted as denying systematic oppression exists and claiming it's all just a silly thing in their head, it's reasonable to include that. It's a pernicious lie that shouldn't be acceptable for someone in a position of power to make. It sounds strange because it should go without saying: but apparently here, it didn't.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:53
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stinkles1112 posted:For some definitions of "safe place", yeah of course they do. They have an obligation to protect their students from physical harm, which it seems they've done just fine. They have an obligation to harshly punish racism and hate speech, which again it seems they've done even if maybe they could have been more diligent about it, i.e. making a statement or taking some kind of action or something about the student association president getting "friend of the family" yelled at him from the car. Where is it that the administration fell so short that the president's resignation was warranted? At best the President was incompetent. There are vids of him interacting with his students where he treats them like an enemy. If you're terrible at your job, you need to go. Even if only for the university's ability to draw talented and diverse student applicants. They've already knee capped themselves with the horrible PR regarding their grad subsidies, which especially important for Universities since grad students (along with adjuncts) are basically the only things keeping the teaching mission going.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:54
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euphronius posted:Why are you using scare quotes around the term safe places. Because in the vast majority of cases where people are talking about setting up safe spaces they're being whiny babies. Blatant racism and hate speech is an obvious exception to this opinion, and of course we should be doing everything we can to eliminate it from the public sphere.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:55
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