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Kesper North posted:Spoiler alert: Stross is not a very pervy writer; he tends to use sex more to illustrate a point than anything, and only when needed in service to the story. That's why the whole cover fiasco was so loving ridiculous and he was so pissed about it. One particular bit of the book really got to me the whole lead-up with Lindy the gas sack space transport, I suspected where that was going almost immediately and yep, she's 'disposable' and dies at the end of the trip I don't know if I'm just sentimental but that's some dark poo poo, gently caress.
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Oct 30, 2015 19:42
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WarLocke posted:One particular bit of the book really got to me the whole lead-up with Lindy the gas sack space transport, I suspected where that was going almost immediately and yep, she's 'disposable' and dies at the end of the trip I don't know if I'm just sentimental but that's some dark poo poo, gently caress. The mistreatment of certain classes of robot society is a theme throughout the book. Also, it kinda makes sense that robots that were originally designed as commodities for humans would have a different attitude towards death.
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Oct 30, 2015 20:05
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Kesper North posted:The mistreatment of certain classes of robot society is a theme throughout the book. Also, it kinda makes sense that robots that were originally designed as commodities for humans would have a different attitude towards death. That particular example had nothing to do with humans though, I'm pretty sure Freya even has an inner monologue about how her Creators could never travel in that fashion. It was straight-up designed as one-use robot transportation and still given a consciousness and personality. I'm liking the book, it's just stuff like that were the robots are intentionally going out of their way to be shits to each other gets me in the gut. Definitely fits the narrative, but still uncomfortable to contemplate (which, I gather, is the point). Only about a third through but I suspect the twist will be that the 'pink goo' Freya is smuggling for Jeeves is an egg/biological creche of some type and the long game is to somehow bring back/re-engineer humanity
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Oct 30, 2015 20:14
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I remember my first exposure to Stross was Glasshouse and Accelerando and loved them! The Laundry Files aren't bad, but I wish he'd go back to weird hard sci-fi. Also I don't remember who recommended it, but I read Futuristic Violence and Fancy Suits and really didn't like it. I got it because John Dies At The End and This Book Is Full of Spiders were decent pulpy reads, but FVaFS just felt really lazy. I guess if you liked Kingsman you'd like FVaFS -- I feel like they both pursue spectacle at the cost of characterization while throwing off some platitudes about classicism that are immediately contradicted by the text.
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Oct 30, 2015 20:15
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WarLocke posted:I'm liking the book, it's just stuff like that were the robots are intentionally going out of their way to be shits to each other gets me in the gut. Definitely fits the narrative, but still uncomfortable to contemplate (which, I gather, is the point). It is basically a study in how Asimov was a monster and the Three Laws are science fiction's greatest crime. The short story about the interstellar expedition really drives that home.
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Oct 30, 2015 20:18
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pseudorandom name posted:It is basically a study in how Asimov was a monster and the Three Laws are science fiction's greatest crime. This is your reminder that pretty much every Asimov robot story was about how the Three Laws didn't work and led to wildly unintended consequences. I don't think it's possible to read his stories as saying that programming robots with the Three Laws is an awesome and morally correct thing to do.
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Oct 30, 2015 21:53
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Especially because the later stories with Giskard and Daneel are all about them having to transcend the Three Laws in order to do the right thing.
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Oct 30, 2015 23:15
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Off the space opera subject, but roboticist Mark W. Tilden re-wrote the three laws of robotics to something more realistic, and scarier if you worry about AIs. I always thought that if I wrote a story involving robots/AI someday, I'd make sure to reference these. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilden%27s_Laws_of_Robotics
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Oct 31, 2015 02:24
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Finished Saturn's Children last night; the last third got pretty insane.I kind of like that the whole climax of the story is Freya deciding "Nah, gently caress this, I'm out" which is a nice culmination of the self-determination thread running through the narrative (not sure what the rules are on older book spoilers, figured I'd play safe). Then I sat down and read through Bit Rot real quick. It was nice seeing that Freya had a 'happy ending' but I'm not sure I caught the meaning of the rest of it. 'Space is deadly, even for robots'? It was engaging and snappy, just kind of depressing. Started Neptune's Brood but it's not quite catching me the same way. Gonna set it to the side while I read the last Kresnov book, and maybe Foundation (since I recently realized I have never read those books, shame on me) after...
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Oct 31, 2015 16:24
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FuturePastNow posted:Off the space opera subject, but roboticist Mark W. Tilden re-wrote the three laws of robotics to something more realistic, and scarier if you worry about AIs. I always thought that if I wrote a story involving robots/AI someday, I'd make sure to reference these. The true laws of robotics will probably be something along the line of: 1. Determine target 2. Determine if target is hostile 3. Shoot hostile
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Nov 4, 2015 00:54
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Libluini posted:1. Determine target 4. Engage targeted advertising routine.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Declare is a legit classic.
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Nov 4, 2015 01:35
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Towards the end, IIRC. Understanding what they did there ties in to a lot of other stuff in the plot.
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Nov 4, 2015 04:11
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pseudorandom name posted:Towards the end, IIRC. Understanding what they did there ties in to a lot of other stuff in the plot. Yeah, I think it's in the last part of the book, but it does get explained.
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Nov 4, 2015 06:57
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I finished Nemesis Games last night, and while I really enjoyed it and how they switched it up, I agree with other people who've said the end of the book was a bit odd. All this stuff was built up, but then it just ended in the middle of everything. I understand it's book 5 of 9 or whatever, but I don't remember feeling a lack of resolution in the previous 4 books.
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Nov 5, 2015 23:15
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So, the Vorkosigan Saga books. I see them recommended fairly often, so I'm gonna start on them. Checking wikipedia though, apparently the publication order is not the same as the chronological order? Should I start with Falling Free or Shards of Honor?
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Nov 8, 2015 17:39
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WarLocke posted:So, the Vorkosigan Saga books. I see them recommended fairly often, so I'm gonna start on them.
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Nov 8, 2015 18:04
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Either start with Shards or the first Miles book, The Warrior Apprentice.
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Nov 8, 2015 18:08
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WarLocke posted:So, the Vorkosigan Saga books. I see them recommended fairly often, so I'm gonna start on them. Falling Free is absolutely nothing at all like the rest of the Vorkosigan books; it's set in the same universe but that's the only connection. Start with Shards of Honor, I would say. It's not the greatest, but I think that it helps set the stage for The Warrior's Apprentice pretty well. If you have a thing for chronological order you can go to Barrayar after Shards, but Warrior's Apprentice is the start of the Miles books and the Miles books are where the series goes from "eh" to "awesome". You can also start with Warrior's Apprentice if you don't mind missing out on some worldbuilding things.
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Nov 8, 2015 22:40
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Khizan posted:Falling Free is absolutely nothing at all like the rest of the Vorkosigan books; it's set in the same universe but that's the only connection. Shards and Barrayar are also most easily available as an omnibus volume these days, so it makes less sense to skip Barrayar (which was also written a few years later and shows a more practiced author). Basic recommendation: Start with either Shards/Barrayar, or The Warrior's Apprentice. In the latter case, you should backfill on Shards/Barrayar no later than before you get to A Civil Campaign (if for no other reason than getting a few references about stuff like "shopping with Cordelia"). After that, either publication order or internal chronology is fine. The most important points is that Brothers in Arms, Mirror Dance and Memory should go in that order, and Memory should be read before anything that comes after it. Oh yes, and Ethan of Athos is kinda optional, being the side-quest adventure of someone in the supporting cast.
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Nov 9, 2015 09:36
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I've never got past the first chapter of Falling Free, but Ethan of Athos is a fun read that you shouldn't skip.
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Nov 9, 2015 10:00
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Khizan posted:Start with Shards of Honor, I would say. It's not the greatest, but I think that it helps set the stage for The Warrior's Apprentice pretty well. If you have a thing for chronological order you can go to Barrayar after Shards, but Warrior's Apprentice is the start of the Miles books and the Miles books are where the series goes from "eh" to "awesome". Actually the series goes to awesome when Cordelia dumps the usurper's head out of a shopping bag in the middle of a high-level military conference. So I say start no later than Barrayar, because Miles is a hell of a lot more plausible when you consider who his mother was. Falling Free and Ethan of Athos are both fun reads, good character novels, and good SF. But they aren't mainstream in the series; EoA can be skipped, but FF is useful for a later Miles book.
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Nov 9, 2015 10:02
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Here's a thing I copy pasted ages ago when I first got interested in reading the Vorkosigan books:quote:Ideal reading order by omnibus It's from a blog called The Wertzone, so if you want to read the full post just google "wertzone vorkosigan" or something, you're smart, you know how the internet works
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Nov 9, 2015 12:23
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mllaneza posted:Actually the series goes to awesome when Cordelia That's the "shopping" bit, yes.
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Nov 9, 2015 13:14
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I say start with Warriors Apprentice. He's more of a compelling character and it feels like a more natural introduction to the series. Cordelia and her adventurous past is a more fun read after you've been thoroughly introduced to her other sides during the Miles series. I found Shards (and especially Barrayar) a bit simple and tropy the first time I read them. They work better as a "historical account".
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Nov 9, 2015 15:23
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The only thing I would say is close to essential when reading Vorkosigan - hell, probably IS essential - is this: Everything published before Memory = read before Memory. Everything published after Memory = read after Memory. That said, I would suggest publication order or Bujold's suggested reading order; I don't think you can go wrong with either because she's very good at making books stand alone. The fact is, almost everyone who likes Vorkosigan read everything and is desperate for more (next book Feb 2016!) Psion fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 01:04
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Brothers in Arms has to be before Mirror Dance. Warrior's Apprentice has to be before The Vor Game.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:22
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So I just finished all the Laundry Files by Stross, is there any Cthulhu in space?
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Nov 10, 2015 02:13
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Washout posted:So I just finished all the Laundry Files by Stross, is there any Cthulhu in space? I haven't read it, but I know there is an anthology book called "Future Lovecraft" and some of the stories are set on space ships and colony planets. Not sure if Cthulhu is in any of them. As far as I know, that's the only space-set Lovecraftian work (and that is a concept I've always wanted to see more of).
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Nov 10, 2015 02:17
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Eh, it's close enough to space opera that I think it's worth posting my review of this book here as well: Solar Express by L. E. Modesitt Jr. A sci-fi novel by an author mostly known for fantasy, but Solar Express is my favorite kind of first contact story: one without any aliens whatsoever as humanity encounters an artifact that defies our understanding of science, and the majority of the story focuses on the humans trying to piece together what they can. Everything dealing with the discovery and exploration of the artifact is good, but the bulk of the story rests on the relationship between the protagonists - a relationship that falls flat in my opinion, as both protagonists are very flat characters who don't grow or change over the course of the book. The other major story beat, one of international tension and crisis between Earth governments in response to the discovery, is if anything even less interesting. The bad guy of the book is sci-fi China, which proceeds to go down a checklist of villain stereotypes without ever providing a hint of motivation or characterization beyond "bad guys." It's not an actively bad read, and the regular interjections of media news stories helps flesh out the setting a little better, but I regret buying this in hardback. The end of the book also hints at some weirdness that makes me wonder if Modesitt isn't coyly hinting at this book being related to one of his other series.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:35
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There's typically no Lovecraft-in-space because there's nothing that can protect you from that which lives between the stars.
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Nov 10, 2015 07:21
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pseudorandom name posted:There's typically no Lovecraft-in-space because there's nothing that can protect you from that which lives between the stars. Peter Watts' Blindsight and Echopraxia count. Charlie Stross has a story the name of which I can't remember, involving an ekranoplan.
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Nov 10, 2015 09:09
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chrisoya posted:No-one can hear you scream. That's why it's vital to record audio and video logs, write reports, and scratch your final words into the walls or write them with your entrails. ("What I don't understand is why he went to the trouble of using his kidney as a full stop." "I don't think he meant to do that. It probably just plopped out.") Ahh, Kryten 
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Nov 10, 2015 09:22
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chrisoya posted:No-one can hear you scream. That's why it's vital to record audio and video logs, write reports, and scratch your final words into the walls or write them with your entrails. ("What I don't understand is why he went to the trouble of using his kidney as a full stop." "I don't think he meant to do that. It probably just plopped out.")
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Nov 10, 2015 09:26
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Missile Gap is the one that comes to mind... I don't think it's all that Lovecraftian, but I loved the concept and setting. Actually, his short story "A Colder War" is also kind of Lovecraft-in-space, since it's set in an alternate world where Cthulhu is a Soviet WMD that accidentally gets released and the Reagan administration are the only survivors of Earth, living on a base on another planet accessed through one of the portals from The Dreams in the Witch House.
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Nov 10, 2015 22:20
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Khizan posted:Brothers in Arms has to be before Mirror Dance. Barrayar is before A Civil Campaign, Cryburn, and Diplomatic Immunity. In fact, don't touch anything after Memory until you're ready to run through them in order. Memory is a favorite, so many good character moments.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:42
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"You should read them in publication order" is what we're saying, really.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:26
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Actually, what we (or at least I) am saying is to go with Bujolds suggested reading order (pretty much internal chronological order), but use the Warriors Apprentice entry-point and go back and read the Cordelia books once you're in love with the series.
thotsky fucked around with this message at 04:42 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 04:39
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I'm a third into Shards of Honor and enjoying it enough, though. Once I'm finished this would you recommend I finish the whole omnibus (also contains Aftermaths and Barrayar), or go onto Warrior's Apprentice and then come back later?
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Nov 11, 2015 04:45
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Cythereal posted:Eh, it's close enough to space opera that I think it's worth posting my review of this book here as well: This book was weirdly different in theme and style to almost all his other works, Scifi and Fantasy. I still enjoyed it, but it read like it was ghostwritten.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:05
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