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Player MVP: The Catapult, for Stackpoling OPForce MVP: The Lao Hu, for soaking multiple rounds of fire before being forced to withdraw Honorable Mention: The Gold Helios, for pure :battletech:
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Nov 9, 2015 08:05
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Aren't nukes generally universally condemned and looked down upon with contempt by all the houses, I feel like I read that somewhere. This could be a frame by Comstar to turn all the houses against the Cappellians, as a final 'gently caress you' for trying to use them against FWL. 
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Nov 9, 2015 08:18
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Back Hack posted:Aren't nukes generally universally condemned and looked down upon with contempt by all the houses, I feel like I read that somewhere. This could be a frame by Comstar to turn all the houses against the Cappellians, as a final 'gently caress you' for trying to use them against FWL. It'll take a long time for any news to get out. ComStar controls the flow of information in the Inner Sphere, and besides that you can't do anything to ComStar because they'll interdict and nuke you.
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Nov 9, 2015 08:25
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The thing about nuking yourself is that it's a lot easier to blame the other guy. Enemy mechs run in, enemy mechs run out, boom.
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Nov 9, 2015 08:31
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AJ_Impy posted:The thing about nuking yourself is that it's a lot easier to blame the other guy. Enemy mechs run in, enemy mechs run out, boom. Hell, could even make the narrative that it was carried by the Brutus (last thing to die before the signal from the base died) and so it was the Cappellans war criming it up all over Comstar. Nope, totally not a denial of loot device that every little back water Comstar base has, no sir. edit: Or used by Team Skittles. There's lots of ways for Blakists or just Comstar to spin this so it doesn't make them look bad. CoffeeQaddaffi fucked around with this message at 08:51 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 08:49
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Leperflesh posted:If the nuke was set off underground, it would have a very different effect than an above-ground or airburst nuke. In the 60s, 70s, and early 80s, various world powers set off hundreds and hundreds of nuclear bombs, most of them underground or underwater. They generally caused a measurable seismic event, but didn't cause massive destruction above ground. A 5 MT device (Cannikin) that got detonated more than 6000 feet underground created a lake a mile wide on an island and pushed the ground 20 feet upwards on detonation. Stuff that we detonated closer to the surface, less than 100 feet, still put 12,000 foot high fireballs in the atmosphere. I'm assuming that comstar had this thing in a surface structure, or in a basement somewhere, and that it probably did a very good job of destroying stuff in the vicinity of the base. Regardless there are probably rules for this stuff so the realchat might not be super useful except as a metric to gauge how badly the battletech rules got it.
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Nov 9, 2015 08:53
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Goonlevel MVP - Catapult 2 for TSEMP and an ammo explosion death  OpFor MVP - I'm wavering but I'll vote Lao Hu this time
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Nov 9, 2015 09:43
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Leperflesh posted:Also we should assume the two surviving comstar guys evacuated before setting it off: if they were willing to just suicide, why not set it off when all the capellans were in and around the base? Bothering to have a combat first would make no sense. The Word (the players) were buying the Wrath the time they needed to get the kaboom set up. It's a "gently caress you, you're not getting any of this poo poo" spite move, mixed in with a "we choose to die here" fanatics-with-superior-weapons terror thing.
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Nov 9, 2015 14:27
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Back Hack posted:Aren't nukes generally universally condemned and looked down upon with contempt by all the houses, I feel like I read that somewhere. This could be a frame by Comstar to turn all the houses against the Cappellians, as a final 'gently caress you' for trying to use them against FWL. Yeah, that's what occurred to me as well. I dunno whether Comstar might have managed to get out any recordings of the battle before pulling the trigger, but with the right framing to all the galaxy it would look like the Cappellans tried and failed to take their fortress while taking grievous losses in the process, and in the end just decided to nuke the place out of frustration rather than risk letting any Comstar vehicles escape. After all, who's gonna believe the Cappellans anything after they've already been caught at least once trying to falsify intelligence related to Comstar?
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Nov 9, 2015 15:13
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We don't know it was a nuke. We just have a mushroom cloud and are making assumptions.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:04
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goatface posted:We don't know it was a nuke. We just have a mushroom cloud and are making assumptions. Artificer posted:So there WAS a nuke down there? PoptartsNinja posted:From the beginning. Anyways, if it's really only 25 hexes it hits, that's a lot more reasonable. Still any number of massive issues with how it works, but at least it's not a literally insane radius.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:52
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Oh, ok, I missed that.
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Nov 9, 2015 16:59
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Player MVP - catapult for exemplifying the levels of "go gently caress yourself" that makes comstar what it is Enemy MVP - Demolisher... it's a good thing there was only one of these What a great scenario - best one I've read in months, IMO As to the 'why nuke after?' several reasons: 1) Political, as mentioned - "omg they nuked us" 2) Scuttling, as mentioned - "buy time for techs to destroy all the data records" 3) Spite, as mentioned - the word 4) Bad manners - Really to say "yes we beat you with uneven odds and kicked your rear end up between your shoulderblades... No you will never get a rematch, so get bent" 5) Secondary damage, because eh why not. 6) It will make them reconsider any more serious assaults on future comstar assets. Think about it. Not only did your company sized force get wasted by a lance of mechs plus some turrets, but if you go in with anything larger, it will very likely just get nuked. Solution? Never, ever, try something so stupid again.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:09
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garland336 posted:2) Scuttling, as mentioned - "buy time for techs to destroy all the data records" This is definitely the most important part. ComStar's top priority has always been keeping HPG technology from falling into anyone else's hands. It's like the secret of the Atom Bomb in 1946.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:27
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Somebody pick up that phone...thetruegentleman posted:Why do the jihadists have a suicide-bomber option? The Capellans will be lucky if there isn't a nuclear bomb under the whole facility. Because I loving CALLED IT! Edit: Sucks for the civies on the coast though; have fun with your new status as war refugees, courtesy of fallout and no electricity! Try not to die in a week. thetruegentleman fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 9, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 17:57
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thetruegentleman posted:Edit: Sucks for the civies on the coast though; have fun with your new status as war refugees, courtesy of fallout and no electricity! Try not to die in a week. That's all part of the "gently caress you," though. If the Capellans want to claim that this planet is theirs, they have to deal with the fallout, literally and figuratively. If they do nothing to help the locals, the survivors are likely to be really pissed at them by the time friendlies show up. Also, remember that the civilians are likely only to know that the Comstar fort blew up and that the Capellans claimed afterwards that the nuke was Comstar's. Who would you blame? That doesn't even factor in the previous power disruptions or the other steps the Capellans have taken that disrupt life on the planet. Also also, any Capellan depots or supply caches are going to be handy targets for hungry civvies. Comstar's remaining personnel can provide basic survival supplies (that they conveniently have on hand, because Comstar is always prepared) and curry favor with the locals, and if they also happen to conveniently have some suggestions about how to hit those depots, well, that's all part of the humanitarian intervention. Reputation is an extremely efficient weapon.
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Nov 9, 2015 18:27
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Olothreutes posted:A 5 MT device (Cannikin) that got detonated more than 6000 feet underground created a lake a mile wide on an island and pushed the ground 20 feet upwards on detonation. Stuff that we detonated closer to the surface, less than 100 feet, still put 12,000 foot high fireballs in the atmosphere. I'm assuming that comstar had this thing in a surface structure, or in a basement somewhere, and that it probably did a very good job of destroying stuff in the vicinity of the base. Regardless there are probably rules for this stuff so the realchat might not be super useful except as a metric to gauge how badly the battletech rules got it. Sure, but this could easily have been more like a 50kt nuke. A little baby one. No need for anything larger, since your only objective is to obliterate the base and its contents. And yeah I only intended the realchat to be for funsies, I'm well aware battletech already has rules for nukes, with the usual level of ignorance of actual physics.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:19
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MVP: Legacy, for losing half his armament and still kicking rear end OpFor MVP: Lao Hu, for being a bullet sponge. Honorable Mentions: Helios, for idiocy, and TSEMPs, for immobilizing things in key positions.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:23
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Well. That's one way to answer the question as to whether or not Mr Bad Jumper would survive the debriefing.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:26
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Player MVP: Legacy, for keeping on trucking despite losing half its arsenal. OpFor MVP: Lao Hu, for kicking rear end and taking names right up until it had to withdraw. Honourable Mention: TSEMP Cannons, for changing the nature of the entire engagement.
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Nov 9, 2015 19:48
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I would like to think that the real reason that ComStar waited to deploy the nuke was that they were waiting for the prevailing winds to change so they would have a better chance of covering Important Capellan Military Facilities with radioactive fallout. PTN, am I spiteful enough to be in the Word of Blake yet?
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Nov 9, 2015 19:54
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You guys are talking about how space AT&T might play it as team war crimes nuking their base, but there is another more straightforward possibility. Comstar could simply point to the smoking crater as a warning against any who might think their power is waning. There are Comstar bases on every planet worth a drat, if even a fraction of them have a nuclear deterrent then it is a very bad idea to pick a fight.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:56
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Tran posted:You guys are talking about how space AT&T might play it as team war crimes nuking their base, but there is another more straightforward possibility. Comstar could simply point to the smoking crater as a warning against any who might think their power is waning. There are Comstar bases on every planet worth a drat, if even a fraction of them have a nuclear deterrent then it is a very bad idea to pick a fight. Yeah, I don't see why ComStar would have to conceal what happened at all. They can point at this incident and say "If you come at us, you can't beat our defenses without coming with overwhelming force. And if you do commit overwhelming force, you will lose that force when we detonate the Spite Nuke. Do not gently caress with us."
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Nov 10, 2015 02:23
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Yeah, I don't see why ComStar would have to conceal what happened at all. Tran posted:You guys are talking about how space AT&T might play it as team war crimes nuking their base, but there is another more straightforward possibility. Comstar could simply point to the smoking crater as a warning against any who might think their power is waning. There are Comstar bases on every planet worth a drat, if even a fraction of them have a nuclear deterrent then it is a very bad idea to pick a fight. There IS a reason everyone got together and banned nukes after the fall of the Star League, you know: turning habitable worlds and rare production facilities into radioactive holes was/is a terrible idea, and if nukes hadn't been used in the first succession war(s), the Great Houses wouldn't be getting pantsed as horribly as they are right now. Never the less, the Cappellans are going to have a hard time even finding someone to whine to, as they're currently limited to whatever communication systems they have that aren't controlled by Comstar ON TOP of their reputation as horrible liars/blatant war criminals. Karma's kind of a bitch.
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Nov 10, 2015 03:25
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Player MVP: Catapult 2 OpFor MVP: Lao Hu Honorable Mention The Wall Incredible.
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Nov 10, 2015 06:00
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I'm glad that nuclear fire will forever wipe away any potential shame those cranes may have been hiding.
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Nov 10, 2015 06:09
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MVP: TSEMPs, Gauss Demolisher
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Nov 10, 2015 06:25
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Player MVP: Alexander loving Kernoff OPFOR MVP: Lao Hu
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Nov 10, 2015 06:35
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thetruegentleman posted:There IS a reason everyone got together and banned nukes after the fall of the Star League, you know: turning habitable worlds and rare production facilities into radioactive holes was/is a terrible idea, and if nukes hadn't been used in the first succession war(s), the Great Houses wouldn't be getting pantsed as horribly as they are right now. Interesting thing about the Ares Conventions I read on sarna.net: quote:In the end, the Ares Conference drew up a massive treaty consisting of 6 articles and 18 appendices, totaling 320 pages. The Ares Conventions were signed on the 13th of June, 2412 by eight of the ten nations invited: the Terran Hegemony, Capellan Confederation, Free Worlds League, Rim Worlds Republic, Federated Suns, Principality of Rasalhague, Lyran Commonwealth, and Draconis Combine.[1] Notice who's not on that list of nations who signed the Ares Conventions? ComStar. (E: like, they didn't even sign them and then later abandon them like everyone else. ComStar fully believes in Total War.)
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Nov 10, 2015 07:14
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Interesting thing about the Ares Conventions I read on sarna.net: Bit of a problem with your reasoning here, Comstar wasn't officially founded until 2785. 
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Nov 10, 2015 07:25
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Bloody Pom posted:Bit of a problem with your reasoning here, Comstar wasn't officially founded until 2785. You know, I thought about double-checking to see if timelines were gonna make me look stupid but forgot. 
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Nov 10, 2015 07:45
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I guess you could almost sort of argue that ComStar is a descendant of the Terran Hegemony by way of the Star League, but that'd be a bit of a stretch.
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Nov 10, 2015 08:14
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Pussy Cartel posted:I guess you could almost sort of argue that ComStar is a descendant of the Terran Hegemony by way of the Star League, but that'd be a bit of a stretch. Not if you're C*! Their logic agrees with you, for they hold Terra, and everyone else needs to be brought to heel.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:02
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Pussy Cartel posted:I guess you could almost sort of argue that ComStar is a descendant of the Terran Hegemony by way of the Star League, but that'd be a bit of a stretch. The Star League officially rescinded the Ares Conventions a full 200 years earlier. In practice they barely lasted a decade, with Capcon nuking the Taurians and Fedrats nuking themselves.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:16
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Yeah, I don't see why ComStar would have to conceal what happened at all. No, they don't need to do this at all, because the Capellans will do it for them. If the Capellans deny that they nuked the fort, then there's two potential explanations: 1. They are lying. The logical conclusion is that their massive assault failed to take a lightly defended Comstar fortification, and that they nuked any of their own attackers who survived. Plausible, makes them look terrible, and suggests that 3:1 odds aren't enough to beat Comstar, you need nukes to win. 2. They aren't lying. Leading to the inevitable conclusion that it takes overwhelming force to beat a Comstar fort and you'll lose them all plus the fort even if you win. In other words, they get all the Do not gently caress with us benefit without having obviously committed a war-crime.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:34
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The capellans took out the HPG. They wouldn't do that unless they had their own alternative, but even if they don't, nobody is gonna know about anything that happened on that planet. Hell if they think they don't need Comstar anymore, they could be doing the same thing on other planets at the same time. What's Comstar gonna say? "Oh our HPGs in Capellan space all went dark, we're weak enough for them to take us, the great and terrible comstar out on multiple planets simulatenously"? Other Houses might get ideas then, because I'm pretty sure nobody really likes having all their mail going through and read and maybe even altered by Comstar.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:20
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Didn't information about what's happening already get out during one of the political updates? It seemed like the Capellan plan was to blame Carlos and the FWL for the HPG attack and try to get them interdicted and that it's already failed, just in for a penny, in for all the warcrimes.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:24
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It's not saying "don't gently caress with us" as much as "don't even bother, you have everything to lose and can never gain, because we will nuke ourselves just to keep you from getting our anything." C* just wants to have outrageously expensive long distance service, they don't visibly actively take sides unless forced, after all. Why not make a reasonably priced real time HPG call and discuss it with your advisors?
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Nov 10, 2015 19:56
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dis astranagant posted:The Star League officially rescinded the Ares Conventions a full 200 years earlier. In practice they barely lasted a decade, with Capcon nuking the Taurians and Fedrats nuking themselves. I'm glad other people are now pointing that out. The Ares Conventions were a complete joke and if people still held to them ComStar would have had to surrender because they were surrounded.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:20
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DatonKallandor posted:The capellans took out the HPG. They wouldn't do that unless they had their own alternative, but even if they don't, nobody is gonna know about anything that happened on that planet. Hell if they think they don't need Comstar anymore, they could be doing the same thing on other planets at the same time. What's Comstar gonna say? "Oh our HPGs in Capellan space all went dark, we're weak enough for them to take us, the great and terrible comstar out on multiple planets simulatenously"? Other Houses might get ideas then, because I'm pretty sure nobody really likes having all their mail going through and read and maybe even altered by Comstar. Comstar's C-Bills are literally the basis of the inner-sphere's finances; even if the Capellans learned how to both use *and* make HPGs, they would still be practically reduced to a barter economy with everyone outside of Capellan space, and even inside of it the Capellan citizens would still be screwed by the sudden collapse in HPG capacity. The only saving grace for the Capellans is that their system is small enough for starships to mitigate some of the lost capacity, and stable enough so that the Capellans don't have to fear everyone exploiting their situation.
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Nov 10, 2015 21:06
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