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The Sisko posted:As stated earlier I know very little about chaos demons and after much thought I thought I think the Cult lists make for better ally than demons and would probably be a lot more fun for the opponent. Basically, what's your tolerance for randomness and what exactly do you want out of your allies? What do you want them to bring that you do not have, either due to the limitations of your codex in general or your army's particular construction?
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Nov 10, 2015 01:16
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So is the death guard list in book one current?
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Nov 10, 2015 01:28
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Cythereal posted:Basically, what's your tolerance for randomness and what exactly do you want out of your allies? What do you want them to bring that you do not have, either due to the limitations of your codex in general or your army's particular construction? Chaos Daemons are not all that random now, actually. The primary source of randomness is the Warp Storm table, which is only used if the army is your Primary Detachment and won't happen in a Horus Heresy game. All Chaos Daemons have the Deep Strike special rule but it is not required to use. In fact most Daemons are better off starting on the table, especially if they are assault oriented. There are also inexpensive unit upgrades that make Deep Striking within range of a model precise or at least reduce the scatter distance. Considering the cost of Legion units you can fit a ton of bodies into a list with some unique abilities and still have points left for a solid core army. They're not the best army by far, but they can be fluffy and interesting additions in a world where 80%+ of what you see is MEq.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:39
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Cythereal posted:Basically, what's your tolerance for randomness and what exactly do you want out of your allies? What do you want them to bring that you do not have, either due to the limitations of your codex in general or your army's particular construction? For me personally I don't mind randomness but from what I've heard about the Daemons is that there is quite a bit of randomly generated war gear and so on and to be perfectly honest that might be a bit of pain as I'd rather not waste the time I get to play with my plastic space barbies. Other than that I really don't know a whole lot about the army though I do have a soft spot for Nurgle from just a purely fluff point of view. I'd appreciate any insights people have on this army.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:41
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The Sisko posted:For me personally I don't mind randomness but from what I've heard about the Daemons is that there is quite a bit of randomly generated war gear and so on and to be perfectly honest that might be a bit of pain as I'd rather not waste the time I get to play with my plastic space barbies. Other than that I really don't know a whole lot about the army though I do have a soft spot for Nurgle from just a purely fluff point of view. I'd appreciate any insights people have on this army. Nurgle is very resilient and slow (cannot Run), which should not be surprising. Most Nurgle units are considered to be strong choices because they have Shrouded and access to Poison. Nurgle Daemon Princes with wings are hilariously good because they can fly in and Jink if fired upon, getting a 2+ cover save. It is always best to outfit Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes with two Greater Gifts because the choices that they offer are strong and give you access to a powerful weapon choice if your roll isn't that great. PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 01:58
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Stanyer89 posted:With the potential to use the Chapter that you play in 40k's Primarch in 30k. I'm going to have the worlds biggest loyalist erection when Sanguinius comes out, it is just going to suck when Panascope's Horus kills him over and over again... After Horus shithouses Sanguinius I'm going to smash your models with a hammer.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:27
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panascope posted:After Horus shithouses Sanguinius I'm going to smash your models with a hammer. I'm guessing Horus will stay king poo poo of primarch mountain, though I could see Sanguinius being able to give him a run for his money. Sanguinius will probably be much more mobile to boot, comparable to Corax. Maybe a more straight-up fighting oriented version of Corax in general. Leman Russ is probably going to be a beatstick with some buffs to the army, and Magnus is obviously going to be a monstrous psyker, but I'm wondering how the Khan and Lion are going to shake out. In the books neither seem to be anything special in combat, though the Lion could be a support-oriented primarch.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:41
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Who can tell, I expected Perturabo to have more guns or various other related shooting abilities and he got a giant hammer that lets him club most everyone else 1v1.
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Nov 10, 2015 02:56
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Alright, I need someone to whisper sweet Raven Guard nothings in my ear. Assault murder space men who hide in the shadows because they shop at Hot Topic? Or a kickin' rad infiltrating assault force that I can also use in 40k? Or (please be this) both? Also, how much anti-flyer, anti armour and the like does one need to fit into a 30k list to make it fun for others to play (and fun to play)? What are the enemy units that one needs to be able to deal with to make it a good time?
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Nov 10, 2015 04:08
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Germ posted:Or a kickin' rad infiltrating assault force that I can also use in 40k? Or (please be this) both? Do Alpha Legion. Infiltrate YOUR ENTIRE ARMY.
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Nov 10, 2015 04:10
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panascope posted:After Horus shithouses Sanguinius I'm going to smash your models with a hammer. Kicking off the Black Rage with style, I see.
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Nov 10, 2015 04:38
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English version of the White Dwarf about the box set is out: https://imgur.com/gallery/yawx1/new Looks like they included a full set of weapon options for the Cataphractii: 5 sets of LCs, 5 powerfists, 5 chainfists, 5 combi-bolters, 1 heavy flamer, 1 power sword, 1 grenade harness. Each of the three Veteran Tac squads has 13 heads, 10 bolters, and 1 each of flamer, PG, HB, MG, ML, LC, PF, power weapon, bolt pistol, chainsword, vexilla, and a combi-bolter that has options for flamer, melta, and plasma.
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Nov 10, 2015 04:45
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Handy info, thanks for posting that! Edit, I'm looking at options to assemble from this box set and this looks like a decent footslogging list? Only need to buy the Iron Father, Gorgons and Apothecaries to round it out. I'll be short some Missile Launchers and a Kheres as well: +++ Iron Hands (1665pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1665pts) ++ + HQ (455pts) + Iron-father Autek Mor (225pts) Legion Centurion (135pts) [Artificer Armour, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Refractor Field] Consul [Chaplain] Legion Centurion (95pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Chainfist] + Troops (420pts) + Legion Tactical Squad (185pts) [9x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs] Legion Tactical Squad (235pts) [14x Legion Tactical Space Marines, Legion Vexilla] Legion Tactical Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Combi-Weapon, Melta Bombs] + Elites (565pts) + Apothecarion Detachment (150pts) Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Sword] Legion Apothecary [Artificer Armour, Combi-weapon, Power Sword] Contemptor-Mortis Dreadnought (190pts) [Blessed Autosimulacra, Two Kheres Pattern Assault Cannons] Gorgon Terminator Squad (225pts) [4x Gorgon Terminator, Reaper Autocannon] Gorgon Hammerbearer [Grenade Harness] + Heavy Support (225pts) + Legion Heavy Support Squad (225pts) [Flak Missiles, 4x Legion Space Marines, Missile Launchers] Legion Sergeant [Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs] TKIY fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 04:59
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PierreTheMime posted:Nurgle is very resilient and slow (cannot Run), which should not be surprising. Most Nurgle units are considered to be strong choices because they have Shrouded and access to Poison. Nurgle Daemon Princes with wings are hilariously good because they can fly in and Jink if fired upon, getting a 2+ cover save. It is always best to outfit Greater Daemons and Daemon Princes with two Greater Gifts because the choices that they offer are strong and give you access to a powerful weapon choice if your roll isn't that great. Thanks for posting that! I have some plaguebearers and Herald that I got randomly from a relative some maybe I could go down the Daemon root. We'll at least I have time to think which route I want go.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:17
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TKIY posted:Handy info, thanks for posting that! Swap the support squad for a Deredeo. Flakk is trash and you'd save some points. E:also Deredeo looks sick and you'd have synergy with your Legion rules
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Nov 10, 2015 07:19
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Germ posted:Also, how much anti-flyer, anti armour and the like does one need to fit into a 30k list to make it fun for others to play (and fun to play)? What are the enemy units that one needs to be able to deal with to make it a good time? It depends on the point level and your army, really. In games around 2000 or higher you can expect significant armour saturation along with a death-star (or two) coming at you in the form of Spartan or flying delivery system. Despite this, fliers are pretty uncommon so AA isn't really necessary. At 2000 points I'd make sure your TAC list has: 1) A way to deal with hordes 2) A way to deal with dozens of marines 3) A way to pop AV13 or less 4) A way to counter or tie-up deathstars 5) A way to pop AV15 super heavies 6) A mobile scoring unit or backfield capper 7) A unit or two with interceptor to counter deepstrikers or fliers This looks like a tall order, but a number of legion units can fit into each category. Thudd Guns are great because they will seriously hurt hordes while giving you reliable AV13 glancing firepower. A mortis dread can sit in your midfield and interdict deepstrikers, shoot down fliers, glance armour, and deal with hordes. The more popular legion units are like this- they plug several holes while being priced competitively. TKIY posted:Handy info, thanks for posting that! I would ditch the combi weapons on the apothecaries and take aug scanners instead. Also the plasma pistol. Your sergeants also badly need power weapons and if you are foot slogging as Iron Hands you should give them close combat weapons as well. Consider changing your cataphractii centurion into a master of signal to park with your heavy support squad for the +1 BS and orbital bombardment. Other than that, it's a pretty good take on an Iron Hands list based off the calth box, albeit I would probably take lascannons over missile launchers in this list (and remember that your sergent can also take heavy weapons in a heavy weapon squad  )
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Nov 10, 2015 07:21
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BULBASAUR posted:It depends on the point level and your army, really. In games around 2000 or higher you can expect significant armour saturation along with a death-star (or two) coming at you in the form of Spartan or flying delivery system. Despite this, fliers are pretty uncommon so AA isn't really necessary. At 2000 points I'd make sure your TAC list has: Very helpful - thanks for this!
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Nov 10, 2015 07:44
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Ok Heresy hams, tell me how terribad this Death Guard "Burn all the things with forbidden chemicals" list is:quote:+++ Death Guard (1997pts) +++
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Nov 10, 2015 08:17
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Pretty savage, I like it. For 2000 pts it seems to have everything you'd need.
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Nov 10, 2015 09:36
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Cythereal posted:I'm guessing Horus will stay king poo poo of primarch mountain, though I could see Sanguinius being able to give him a run for his money. Sanguinius will probably be much more mobile to boot, comparable to Corax. Maybe a more straight-up fighting oriented version of Corax in general. Russ and especially Khan will be setup to kill other Primarchs I think. Sanguinius will be the Loyal sides version of Horus, as in able to kick the poo poo out of any other Primarch they come across, but he will of course lose against him. It will be interesting when they eventually release the Emperor.
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Nov 10, 2015 13:13
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krushgroove posted:Considering HH is basically historical 40K and my group is going to be playing the normal Heresy timeline, could I rightly give our Sons of Horus (loyalist) a bunch of poo poo if he plays Abaddon and Horus? I don't want to be a dick about it, it's plastic spacemen, he can barely play as it is, and Horus and Abaddon are cool and all...but playing them as loyalist post-Heresy? The Eye icon/watermark thingy on Horus' and Abaddon's pages means that they can't be Loyalist.
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Nov 10, 2015 13:22
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Okay since everyone else is doing it here's what I'm building toward with my Death Guard army using The Reaping. Thoughts? +++ New Roster (1992pts) +++ ++ Legiones Astartes: Crusade Army List (Age of Darkness) (1992pts) ++ + HQ (817pts) + Legion Centurion (145pts) [Artificer Armour, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Rad Grenades, Refractor Field] ··Consul [Primus Medicae] Legion Praetor (672pts) [Cataphractii Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon, Combi-Weapon, Paragon Blade, Rad Grenades, The Barbaran Thurible] ··Deathshroud Terminator Squad [4x Deathshroud Terminators, Melta Bombs] ····Land Raider Phobos [Armoured Ceramite] ··Master of the Legion [The Reaping] + Troops (790pts) + Legion Heavy Support Squad (165pts) [Autocannons, 4x Legion Space Marines] ··Legion Sergeant [Augury Scanner] Legion Heavy Support Squad (165pts) [Autocannons, 4x Legion Space Marines] ··Legion Sergeant [Augury Scanner] Legion Tactical Squad (230pts) [15x Legion Tactical Space Marines] ··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Power Weapon, Rad Grenades] Legion Tactical Squad (230pts) [15x Legion Tactical Space Marines] ··Legion Tactical Sergeant [Power Weapon, Rad Grenades] + Elites (210pts) + Contemptor Dreadnought Talon (210pts) ··Legion Contemptor Dreadnought [Chem-munitions, Heavy Flamer, Twin-linked Lascannon] + Heavy Support (175pts) + Legion Sicaran Battle Tank (175pts) [Lascannons] + Legion + Legion Astartes [XIV: Death Guard]
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Nov 10, 2015 15:53
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serious gaylord posted:Russ and especially Khan will be setup to kill other Primarchs I think. Sanguinius will be the Loyal sides version of Horus, as in able to kick the poo poo out of any other Primarch they come across, but he will of course lose against him. I don't get why Khan would be set up to kill other primarchs. In the story so far, he's fought exactly one and that one was a draw (against Mortarion). They aren't going to release rules for the Emperor. Ever.
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Nov 10, 2015 16:07
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Sulecrist posted:The Eye icon/watermark thingy on Horus' and Abaddon's pages means that they can't be Loyalist. Really? What about vehicles? I don't have access to my catalogue but I'm sure things like the Fire Raptor, etc have the eye icon too, and I've seen people online using the Storm Eagle (variant of the Fire Raptor) as an Ultramarine flyer.
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Nov 10, 2015 17:14
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Eh, just say it's a clone by Fabius Bile or a duplicate due to Warp fuckery from an alternate timeline or whatever. I don't think most people are going to care that much whether you're ostensibly loyalist or traitor on the tabletop.
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Nov 10, 2015 17:41
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The eye watermark just indicates Horus Heresy, but some characters have a special rule that specifically limits them to traitor or loyalist armies. This will never matter and can probably always be ignored. 
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Nov 10, 2015 17:51
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Cythereal posted:I don't get why Khan would be set up to kill other primarchs. In the story so far, he's fought exactly one and that one was a draw (against Mortarion). Khan is described as a very very very good fighter, and routinely mentioned as at the top of the pile by the other Primarchs. And of course they'll release rules for the Emperor. They've said they're going to do a model for him, of course there will be rules. I imagine only playable in one specific scenario in the assault on the Vengeful Spirit but there will be rules for him.
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Nov 10, 2015 17:59
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BULBASAUR posted:I would ditch the combi weapons on the apothecaries and take aug scanners instead. Also the plasma pistol. Your sergeants also badly need power weapons and if you are foot slogging as Iron Hands you should give them close combat weapons as well. Consider changing your cataphractii centurion into a master of signal to park with your heavy support squad for the +1 BS and orbital bombardment. If I am foot slogging why would I drop the bolters for combat blades? I'm thinking of them as a fire base or do I have that wrong? Lord Twisted posted:Swap the support squad for a Deredeo. Flakk is trash and you'd save some points. Yeah I am just trying to stay within the box set a bit. 30k on the cheap if possible! Reworking the list though, Deredo is an amazing looking model and I might have to shell out for one. edit: gently caress this poo poo is expensive. Any sort of transport and/or Legion specific troops are just insanely expensive, even by GW standards! TKIY fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 10, 2015 18:00
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So what are the hallmark differences between this and 40K? I've played since 3rd ed, with 5th ed being my favourite but I never looked at FW as anything other than "cool and overpowered" models.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:24
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TKIY posted:If I am foot slogging why would I drop the bolters for combat blades? I'm thinking of them as a fire base or do I have that wrong? 
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Nov 10, 2015 18:54
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Sir Teabag posted:So what are the hallmark differences between this and 40K? I've played since 3rd ed, with 5th ed being my favourite but I never looked at FW as anything other than "cool and overpowered" models. 40k is a giant mess, 30k hasn't been ruined yet.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:05
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serious gaylord posted:Khan is described as a very very very good fighter, and routinely mentioned as at the top of the pile by the other Primarchs. Eh... every primarch gets hyped up, and Khan says himself in Scars that his only particular strength versus other primarchs is that none of them have ever seen him fight and so don't know what to expect. I'd expect him to be very hit-and-run oriented. I really, really don't think they're going to release rules for the Emperor unless they're "You lose."
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Nov 10, 2015 19:05
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Sir Teabag posted:So what are the hallmark differences between this and 40K? I've played since 3rd ed, with 5th ed being my favourite but I never looked at FW as anything other than "cool and overpowered" models. To be honest, I've always felt the idea that Forge World was a means of cranking out expensive and overpowered models has always been a bit of a myth. There may have been some truth when they just made Titans and Superheavies, since they're kinda overpowered by design, but since they've moved onto Horus Heresy and producing their own campaign books their rules tend to be more side-grades and alternatives to GW's stuff. TBH the sooner the myth dies the better, it'd be nice to be able to use my Contemptors or my Taghamata without being accused of being a filthy neckbearded power-gamer.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:09
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Cythereal posted:I really, really don't think they're going to release rules for the Emperor unless they're "You lose." Really? What if I'm playing Horus? The Emperor didn't walk out a winner in that one
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Nov 10, 2015 19:11
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TheChirurgeon posted:Really? What if I'm playing Horus*? The Emperor didn't walk out a winner in that one *Horus infused with the powers of the chaos gods.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:15
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pffffffft whatever
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Nov 10, 2015 19:15
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Also, pretend I put a  in my last post.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:17
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Horus Transfigured TKIY posted:If I am foot slogging why would I drop the bolters for combat blades? I'm thinking of them as a fire base or do I have that wrong? You can pay a few points per model to give them a chainsword in addition to the bolter, pistol, and grenades. I recommend this for Iron Hands because it's one of the few legions that can run blobs in practically any meta. Your line troops are tough and guaranteed to make it where you need them to be. Those additional attacks are a godsend because opponents can no longer block them with cheaper chaff units and you are less likely to get stuck in a tactical blob mirror match. Having 40 melee attacks instead of 20 also forces enemies to either use dedicated melee units, heavy weapons, or ignore them outright. These are all good things. Sir Teabag posted:So what are the hallmark differences between this and 40K? I've played since 3rd ed, with 5th ed being my favorite but I never looked at FW as anything other than "cool and overpowered" models. From my perspective:
 
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Nov 10, 2015 19:25
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Do you know off the top of your head which book the 6 core missions are in?
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Nov 10, 2015 20:01
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The Red Admech Book and 161 of Book 5 (tempest). I'd love to put these into the OP so people don't need to spend money on a book just for the core rules. I bet the new Legion red book will have them in there, but that's probably 4+ months away.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:06
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