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Prometheus is absolutely a prequel to Alien. It's literally the origin story of everything in that movie.
stev fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Nov 10, 2015 |
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Nov 9, 2015 23:09
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Steve2911 posted:Prometheus us absolutely a prequel to Alien. It's literally the origin story of everything in that movie. It sort of isn't though. Nothing in Prometheus really directly relates to Alien. I guess it makes the corporation aware that the "engineers" exist, and perhaps that's why they were so adamant that the crew investigate the signal. But does Prometheus add anything to Alien? Does it answer any questions or provide any insight? It's in the same universe and involves the same corporation and probably some of the same aliens but that's about it. If nothing in Prometheus happened, if the Nostromo was the first human ship to ever find an engineer ship, nothing would have played out any differently.
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Nov 9, 2015 23:22
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Tenzarin posted:Ladies and gentlemen, the reason why movies today suck. You've yet to make a single meaningful post in the entire thread. Keep the one-liners coming though.
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Nov 9, 2015 23:27
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Baronjutter posted:It sort of isn't though. Nothing in Prometheus really directly relates to Alien. I guess it makes the corporation aware that the "engineers" exist, and perhaps that's why they were so adamant that the crew investigate the signal. But does Prometheus add anything to Alien? Does it answer any questions or provide any insight? But now we have even more questions! My favorite part is how at the start of the movie the geologist and biologist are like "WERE IN IT FOR THE MONEY". Then the first sight of a dead alien body they run away and get lost after they used future mapping drones to map the entire base.
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Nov 10, 2015 01:33
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The map was in the ship the ship that they werent in
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Nov 10, 2015 01:41
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Here's my review of 2001 A Space Odyssey: -It was not an Alien prequel. -The old age makeup isnt real. -He should not go into space. -I'm hungry. -Miniatures are always inferior to full-scale sets. -He should not have chosen to become a baby. -I'm sleepy. -Real computers wouldn't do that.
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Nov 10, 2015 04:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Here's my review of 2001 A Space Odyssey:
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Nov 10, 2015 04:58
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Here's my review of 2001 A Space Odyssey: Nice. 
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Nov 10, 2015 05:03
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oldpainless posted:This is the Alien 3 thread, I think you posted this in the wrong thread but that's ok I thought it was a prequel to Alien 3, and I'm hungry. It's important that you know this.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:05
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I thought it was a prequel to Alien 3, and I'm hungry. It possibly could be. 2001 shows humans first really venturing and establishing them selves in space. The drat corporations could have covered up everything about the monolith. Also blade runner and total recall are also in the alien universe because I enjoy them and I enjoy alien.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:20
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Then The Running Man is in the Alien universe too, because Total Recall is clearly its sequel.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:25
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Then The Running Man is in the Alien universe too, because Total Recall is clearly its sequel. Terrorist Fistbump posted:It seems that a lot of people I run into conceive of Scott as some sort of auteur who makes highly innovative, stylized films and rarely has a miss. I hadn't fully considered the idea that Scott is a "chameleon director" without a style of his own, and perhaps part of what people fixate on is that with sci-fi films, Scott's movies are such a small sample size and their visual style is so iconic and yet consistent (and it set the general visual style of all the subsequent sequels in the Alien series), that him deviating from that style seems immediately jarring and out of place. But when you look at his work as a whole as it relates to Hollywood, like you said, the change makes more sense. Do you think his lack of personal style is a good thing or a bad thing (or both)? I mentioned that it explains why his lack of a personal style explains his lack of consistency in my eyes, whereas there are certain directors that have very strong personal styles that I either like or I don't and as a result I tend to either like or not like almost every movie they make. Ridley Scott on the other hand is a little bit all over the map for me.
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Nov 10, 2015 06:25
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I really like that Scott did "Matchstick Men" right after "Black Hawk Down" and "Russel Crowe drinks wine for two hours" right before "American Gangster." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM6X_wdZJaE
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Nov 10, 2015 06:31
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Baronjutter posted:It's in the same universe and involves the same corporation and probably some of the same aliens but that's about it. If nothing in Prometheus happened, if the Nostromo was the first human ship to ever find an engineer ship, nothing would have played out any differently. It literally shows you the origin of the Alien, or at least a good chunk of it.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:51
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Steve2911 posted:It literally shows you the origin of the Alien, or at least a good chunk of it. No it doesn't.
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Nov 10, 2015 19:53
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SMG is right (and with that, the first seal holding closed the doorway to hell was opened, and a low, mournful tolling of a bell could be heard echoing over the hills). No seriously, he's right. Prometheus shows the creation of a life form, but the capital-A Alien xenomorph penis-headed rape monster from the other movies existed before the events of Prometheus. You can even spot a depiction of one in a mural on the wall of one of the Engineer facility chambers earlier in the movie.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:15
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Steve2911 posted:It literally shows you the origin of the Alien, or at least a good chunk of it. The ship the nostromo finds is super old, super super old, they mention fossilization, meaning the ships and the dead pilot were there for many thousands, perhaps millions of years. The engineers in Prometheus were killed very "recently", only about 2000 years ago. The engineers are probably really good bio-engineers and have created all sorts of creatures and bio-tech. It's possible both the black goo and the xenomorph are their creations, or at least their discoveries. But from the fact that their spaceships and technology have a very similar look and feel to the alien I'm guessing both are creations. We really don't know, there's a lot of potentially cool mysteries still out there. But the ship found on LV-426 was there long long before the events in Prometheus or the holo-recording of the engineers loving up. Probably the same species and technology (engineer bio-weapons) but totally unrelated events. The creature at the very end of Prometheus is very different from the xenomorph. Similar, but different. It's like an alien seeing a bear then seeing a dog and assuming they are the same species. Totally part of the same general family of life, but not the same. I'm guessing the engineers have a whole menagerie of bio-engineered life forms they use for various reasons. The alien we see in Alien is just one of them, as is the black goo, the snake things, the big loving squid guy, and the thing that came out of the engineer. All based on the same "technology" but different products. And I think that would be a good direction to take the franchise, away from the specific model of xenomorph we're all so used to, let's see what else the engineers cooked up. Maybe there's whole planets with whole bio-engineered biosphere made up of horrible geiger creatures. Maybe most of them aren't even hostile, just workers or tools of some sort. Little dudes that clean starships, things that eat asteroids and poo poo out bio-ships. So much potential stuff to see.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:19
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Tenzarin posted:What is the theme of prometheus? Worship of our creators is mostly fueled by innocence, and simply because our creators told us to. The movie represents the horror of the moment we discover that our parents, which we'd previously regarded almost as gods, are actually fallible. They make mistakes. Hell, YOU might have been a mistake. They might not even love you... they might even hate and resent you. If you like, there's room here to stretch that into a broader question of, if a god who created all of humanity exists, is he truly worthy of worship simply because he created us? And because he says so?
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Nov 10, 2015 20:40
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Baronjutter posted:The ship the nostromo finds is super old, super super old, they mention fossilization, meaning the ships and the dead pilot were there for many thousands, perhaps millions of years. The engineers in Prometheus were killed very "recently", only about 2000 years ago. Someone posited here that the Engineers were trying to look like and act like their own creators/predecessors, which would be the Space Jockey people. It's not a mask that the big dead fossil is wearing in Alien.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:50
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MonsieurChoc posted:Someone posited here that the Engineers were trying to look like and act like their own creators/predecessors, which would be the Space Jockey people. It's not a mask that the big dead fossil is wearing in Alien. I think that interpretation makes Prometheus more thematically interesting, and doesn't undermine the otherworldly weirdness of the Space Jockey.
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Nov 10, 2015 20:56
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Xenomrph posted:SMG is right (and with that, the first seal holding closed the doorway to hell was opened, and a low, mournful tolling of a bell could be heard echoing over the hills). Except the "capital-A Aliens" (  ) did come from the black goo in one way or another. Ridley Scott confirmed this and said the Prometheus sequel will explore why the Engineers created this "evil biology" (black goo).
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Nov 10, 2015 23:03
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But why did a little fish come out of Holloways' eye?
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Nov 10, 2015 23:04
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Immortan posted:Except the "capital-A Aliens" ( Also even if the Alien came from the black goo, that doesn't change what I and others were saying: Prometheus doesn't show the origin of the Alien
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Nov 10, 2015 23:13
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Immortan posted:Except the "capital-A Aliens" ( He's a liar.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:24
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Lurdiak posted:But why did a little fish come out of Holloways' eye? I was watching the movie very intently but I never noticed anything come out of anyone's eyes! I even remembered this exact quote before watching the movie because I hate anything eye related.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:26
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Xenomrph posted:Do you have a link/quote on that? I remember him saying the Deacon and the Alien are "genetic cousins", with the implication that the Black Goo was derived from the Alien. It was in one of the interviews he did while promoting The Martian. He even said that he originally viewed the original Alien in 1979 as a biological weapon. Of course, those eggs were in an Engineer ship as well. The black goo was confirmed to be a biological weapon in Prometheus. It also appears to be able to create more than one kind of creature. Okay, it didn't show the actual origin of the original capital-A Alien in Prometheus, but it's pretty explicit about where this is going in addition to Scott's comments. The more intriguing part for me (and hopefully for everyone else) is more backstory on the Engineers.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:36
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It really all comes down to respecting or trusting the writers/film makers. Some people have become cynical from really bad scify writing where they're just making poo poo up as they go and change their mind and ret-con poo poo constantly, so when they see a movie that just raises a ton of questions and doesn't explain much they're sick of that poo poo because they don't trust or believe the writer actually has the answers and don't expect them to be answered in a satisfying way.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:46
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Lurdiak posted:But why did a little fish come out of Holloways' eye? Maybe it was too liquored up?
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Nov 10, 2015 23:46
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Immortan posted:It was in one of the interviews he did while promoting The Martian. He even said that he originally viewed the original Alien in 1979 as a biological weapon. Of course, those eggs were in an Engineer ship as well. The black goo was confirmed to be a biological weapon in Prometheus. It also appears to be able to create more than one kind of creature. Okay, it didn't show the actual origin of the original capital-A Alien in Prometheus, but it's pretty explicit about where this is going in addition to Scott's comments. The more intriguing part for me (and hopefully for everyone else) is more backstory on the Engineers. That's really a good enough "explanation" for what we see in the movie. The black goo doesn't have a singular goal or purpose, it just changes things in weird ways. The comic has some neat (and freaky) stuff resulting from the black goo in the aftermath of the events of the movie.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:48
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Baronjutter posted:It really all comes down to respecting or trusting the writers/film makers. It's difficult to trust someone who wrote Lost.
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Nov 10, 2015 23:50
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Xenomrph posted:The recent Prometheus comics had a good name for the black goo: "Accelerant". While the comic doesn't codify what the black goo does or its origins, it does imply that it causes rapid and unpredictable molecular change and cellular mutation. When they first discover the head room we see some tiny little worms in the dirt. Later after the black goo has leaked out, we see some incredibly scary and clearly aggressive snake-worm things. I always got the strong feeling showing the harmless worms and then the huge snake was supposed to tell the audience that the black goo rapidly mutates things and makes them more dangerous and probably more violent and aggressive. Little worms turned into huge snake. Dude's sperm turned into huge octopus face-rape machine along with him probably slowly mutating into something as well. Human dunked in the stuff turned into a super-human angry killing machine that was adapted to the environment (didn't need suit anymore). And, after the octopus thing impregnated the engineer something very close to an Alien came out, although this alien seemed a lot less bio-mechnical looking. So, does the black goo just keep randomly violently mutating things until the life cycle reaches a perfect killing machine, which often ends up looking like the Alien? The worm-snake and the giant octopus did not look anything like an Alien or engineer technology (ie gieger stuff). Is the Alien a product of using the black goo along with science to control or craft the results? Is the Alien the product of the black goo being exposed for a long time to the various bio-mechanical creations of the engineers? In Alien we see a strong resemblance between the Alien and the ship it is found on, it looks like they are clearly from the same place or were created by the same hand. Were the engineers or space jockey's basing their technology and style on the alien or the other way around? Because we know the black goo does not always result in creatures that look like they were designed by a mad Swissman, but that it sometimes does. So??? Cool mysteries! Or just a total lack of thought and planning! Who knows.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:02
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Baronjutter posted:It really all comes down to respecting or trusting the writers/film makers. If you want to know the answer to a question a work of art raises, it is a good question. I can also, almost guarantee, that you don't actually want them answered.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:10
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Snowman_McK posted:If you want to know the answer to a question a work of art raises, it is a good question. I can also, almost guarantee, that you don't actually want them answered. Absolutely true. Ever since the first Alien movie I've been absolutely captivated by the mystery of the space jockey. I know I could lie to my self that the engineers aren't the space jockey's but I think it's fairly obvious that they are the "official" answer to that question. Then again there's lots of good writing that have set up very captivating mysteries with entirely satisfying solutions.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:13
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Baronjutter posted:Then again there's lots of good writing that have set up very captivating mysteries with entirely satisfying solutions. This will sound snarky, so I'm apologising in advance. Like what? I actually can't think of one myself. I'm not denying the possibility, but what films/books/tv shows are you thinking of when you say that?
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Nov 11, 2015 00:15
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Oh hey alien3 thread didnt see you there count me in as one of the people who appreciates the assembly cut, despite liking parts 1 and 2 more also the soundtrack is indeed topnotch
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Nov 11, 2015 00:20
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Snowman_McK posted:This will sound snarky, so I'm apologising in advance. Like what? I actually can't think of one myself. I'm not denying the possibility, but what films/books/tv shows are you thinking of when you say that? A lot of decent horror, movies and books. I always thought lovecraft did a good job sort of explaining mysteries while still keeping them alien and mysterious.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:20
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Baronjutter posted:A lot of decent horror, movies and books. I always thought lovecraft did a good job sort of explaining mysteries while still keeping them alien and mysterious. I hate to sound like a jerk, but can you please be more specific? Lovecraft is a solid example, but he still tended to stick to broad strokes. The one about the old musician was one of the best. He explains why the guy plays the music (to keep something terrible away) but doesn't actually explain what that thing is in any detail.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:26
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Baronjutter posted:I know I could lie to my self that the engineers aren't the space jockey's but I think it's fairly obvious that they are the "official" answer to that question. Having the Engineers and Space Jockey be different leaves unanswered questions, but I think having them be the same raises even more questions - mostly negative questions about the caliber of the filmmaking, rather than the story the movie is trying to tell.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:29
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The sad thing is that the film provides a clear answer to every question. That answer is, simply: ask better questions. It's unambiguous. Shaw starts the film asking basic, stupid questions like 'what is the meaning of life?' and 'why do bad things happen to good people?' By the end, she is effectively asking 'how dare you?!' - a question that is not really a question but a demand. That question is, specifically, 'why are you trying to kill us?' "We are gradually becoming aware of the destructive potential, up to the self-annihilation of humanity itself, that could be unleashed if the capitalist logic of enclosing [the] commons is allowed a free run. [...] In contrast to the classic image of proletarians who have 'nothing to lose but their chains,' we are thus ALL in danger of losing ALL. The risk is that we will be reduced to abstract empty Cartesian subjects deprived of substantial content, dispossessed of symbolic substance, our genetic base manipulated, vegetating in an unlivable environment. These triple threats to our being make all of us potential proletarians. And the only way to prevent actually becoming one is to act preventively. The true legacy of ’68 is best encapsulated in the formula Soyons realistes, demandons l’impossible! (Let’s be realists, demand the impossible.) Today’s utopia is the belief that the existing global system can reproduce itself indefinitely. The only way to be realistic is to envision what, within the coordinates of this system, cannot but appear as impossible." -Zizek What Shaw is making is this impossible demand that breaks from the cycle of rebellion/corruption. For all his genius, David 8 cannot think outside this system - he can only accelerate it. Hence: "sometimes, in order to create, you must first destroy." David is saying this with full knowledge that Earth will be rendered permanently uninhabitable, except to robots. The punchline to the magical observatory scene is that David is being overwhelmed with joy by the inevitability of the apocalypse. Without understanding the basic allegory, you will fail to understand basic plot points - like why Weyland fakes his death. Weyland is put into hibernation to create the illusion that his company is no longer patriarchal. The crew are under the impression that Weyland is a hip, Web-2.0 sort of company, where they can work under limited oversight doing nonprofitable research for all mankind. The reveal that Weyland is as alive as ever corresponds with Shaw's newfound awareness of her expendability. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 09:42 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 02:41
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Xenomrph posted:Do you think his lack of personal style is a good thing or a bad thing (or both)?
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Nov 11, 2015 02:58
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