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We don't know what he did yet but you can bet that he was right. 
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Nov 11, 2015 01:01
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Scott is never right.
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Nov 11, 2015 01:42
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It's pretty easy to be right going up against Captain America lately.
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Nov 11, 2015 02:58
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Didn't Phantomex also feel bad for killing young Apocalypse, that's why he created a new clone and took him to The World so he'd mature into Evan? Or am I remembering it wrong. My favorite X-force is the one where they just killed Purifiers, because those guys are diiiiiiiiiiiiiiicks.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:09
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Doesnt Ultimate Reed Richards also have a similar
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Nov 11, 2015 03:19
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That ones just the city not the world.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:22
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twistedmentat posted:Didn't Phantomex also feel bad for killing young Apocalypse, that's why he created a new clone and took him to The World so he'd mature into Evan? Or am I remembering it wrong. I'm not even sure it was "feeling bad" so much as "create a backup plan to screw up any future Apocalypse shennanigans." It didn't seem the most emotional connection beyond a contrived artificial one, especially compared to the Evan/Deadpool relationship.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:28
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Probably Magic posted:I'm not even sure it was "feeling bad" so much as "create a backup plan to screw up any future Apocalypse shennanigans." It didn't seem the most emotional connection beyond a contrived artificial one, especially compared to the Evan/Deadpool relationship. I just reread it and it was a good connection as he programmed his aunt and uncle that helped to make him into the person he was.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:35
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bobkatt013 posted:I just reread it and it was a good connection as he programmed his aunt and uncle that helped to make him into the person he was. That still just seems like calculated emotionless strategizing to me, but that might just be my cynical reading of it. He just doesn't seem like that sentimental of a guy outside of Betsy. UXF really is all about Psylocke, in my opinion, and is kinda my favorite story for her.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:44
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Probably Magic posted:That still just seems like calculated emotionless strategizing to me, but that might just be my cynical reading of it. He just doesn't seem like that sentimental of a guy outside of Betsy. That's Fantomex, isn't it? Giving the appearance of being the awesome cool cold and calculating guy while being torn apart on the inside by the conflicts built by his programming. But then, he tries using The World to raise Evan as a hero, by making him the adopted son of a kindly couple of farmers in the middle of Kansas. Which, if that's not being sentimental with your symbolism, I don't know what is.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:37
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ElNarez posted:That's Fantomex, isn't it? Giving the appearance of being the awesome cool cold and calculating guy while being torn apart on the inside by the conflicts built by his programming. I guess that does make sense, especially in light of storylines afterward where he goes off the rails, that he'd need to believe that even someone as screwed up as En Sabah Nur can be made good by the proper surroundings. A convincing case.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:43
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Also has anyone ever explained why he drinks by pouring liquid on his head?
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Nov 11, 2015 05:19
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I'd hate to point to AXIS but from that we know that Evan is actually good, because Axis turned him evil.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:28
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Probably Magic posted:I guess that does make sense, especially in light of storylines afterward where he goes off the rails, that he'd need to believe that even someone as screwed up as En Sabah Nur can be made good by the proper surroundings. A convincing case. He has three brains. That's like being able to compartmentalize plus. He can believe all sides of the argument at once. I think that there's a strong case to make that he's frequently bullshitting—"misdirecting"—himself in v. elaborate/sad ways.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:37
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Squizzle posted:He has three brains. That's like being able to compartmentalize plus. He can believe all sides of the argument at once. I think that there's a strong case to make that he's frequently bullshitting—"misdirecting"—himself in v. elaborate/sad ways. The last run of X-Force was basically him having a lengthy nervous breakdown as he tried to reconcile reality with what he's been hardwired into believing.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:48
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twistedmentat posted:I'd hate to point to AXIS but from that we know that Evan is actually good, because Axis turned him evil. Which brings up the interesting idea that En Sabah Nur could in fact have been good if not for getting ostracized by society so young and getting juiced up by Celestial technology.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:49
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Now,  I literally never read any of AXIS and am just talking out of my rear end but the promotion around it emphasized that the central flip-flop wasn't a good/evil toggle, but an inversion of some core aspect of each person's personality. Trying not to become Apocalypse is a significant piece of Evan's character; flipping that around gives you an Evan who thinks that being Apocalypse is  . Does AXIS support that reading?
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Nov 11, 2015 06:03
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Squizzle posted:Now, ...yeah... but AXIS is poo poo, so it's simultaneously clear yet inconsistent.
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Nov 11, 2015 06:12
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Squizzle posted:Now, Yes and no depending on what you read. The main series explained it poorly but tie-ins covered that more. Some were as simple as going from good to evil, but others like Deadpool for example went from being violent to forsaking violence. He was still a good guy though.
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Nov 11, 2015 06:21
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ElNarez posted:The last run of X-Force was basically him having a lengthy nervous breakdown as he tried to reconcile reality with what he's been hardwired into believing. Turning the really dumb "Fantomex is programmed not to believe in God" into the ultimate superiority complex was pretty clever.
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Nov 11, 2015 06:40
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Aphrodite posted:Turning the really dumb "Fantomex is programmed not to believe in God" into the ultimate superiority complex was pretty clever. It was that as far back as The List, which I believe introduced the programmed atheism in the first place. Assuming he's telling the truth, Fantomex can't believe in anything greater than himself, because nanites. (And Marvel Boy knows space math that disproves God.)
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Nov 11, 2015 06:50
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why the gently caress do I know so much about Fantomex what is wrong with me
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Nov 11, 2015 06:58
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Squizzle posted:why the gently caress do I know so much about Fantomex Then tell me about the goddamn drinking thing!
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Nov 11, 2015 07:06
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zoux posted:Then tell me about the goddamn drinking thing! Not only will I answer it, but I'll do it in rambling overlong sentences. See the thing about Fantomex is that he's the concentrated essence of mysterious garbage badass characters, whose past, motives, and basically everything are matrioska puzzle boxes. Most aspects of him, especially as laid down by G-Moz, contribute to that, but none moreso than his very vaguely defined "misdirection" powers. His whole thing is that he can make people believe things that aren't true, and distract people from things that are. Both because we've seen the misdirecting fictions portrayed on-panel, and because Grant Morrison is Grant Morrison, we can assume that Fantomex is meant to be able to deceive the reader as well.* By nature, almost anything in superhero fiction is up for grabs: a later writer can claim that a character was lying, or just incorrect, or that things weren't as they appeared thanks to magic/cosmic nonsense/shapeshifters. This is waaaay easier with Fantomex, to the point that I'd argue it's pointless to accept most things known about his character. "Oh, you think I was a Weapon Plus super-soldier? You rubes, I was ~*misdirecting~* them and also you the whole time! I'm actually an Inhuman™ from Attilan™, or am I? Perhaps this is another layer in my onion of self-interested deceit. Also I actually do not have three brains, and instead have zero. Misdirection!" What I'm saying is: He's not actually dumping anything on his head. Or he is, but it's not water. Or it is water, but it's not done for drinking. Or it is, but if he ever said why, he would be lying. Or if he told the truth, he'd do it between panels and we wouldn't get to read it. Welp that's my Fantomex story. *I know Remender constrains the misdirection thing to be mostly psychic illusions, but lol if you think that couldn't be handwaved as Fantomex BSing the true nature and extent of his abilities, for his own mysterious reasons. Squizzle fucked around with this message at 07:44 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 07:42
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I've greatly enjoyed Phantomex talk, and I mean that with no irony.
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Nov 11, 2015 08:15
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Probably Magic posted:I'm not even sure it was "feeling bad" so much as "create a backup plan to screw up any future Apocalypse shennanigans." It didn't seem the most emotional connection beyond a contrived artificial one, especially compared to the Evan/Deadpool relationship. While this conversation has moved past this point, I wanted to come back to it: Evan was essentially doomed to become the next Apocalypse without his will or consent. Fantomex trying to break that cycle and let Evan grow into being who he chose to be fits neatly with Remender's X-Force's themes - because everyone on that team was, at some point, made into a weapon by someone else, and a driving force of the book was about their desire to break free of that paradigm and become their own people. If they're going to do it for themselves, it only makes sense that they'd try to do it for others, too - even (or especially!) for the kid doomed to be the next Apocalypse.
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Nov 11, 2015 08:23
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Probably Magic posted:I've greatly enjoyed Phantomex talk, and I mean that with no irony. 
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Nov 11, 2015 15:25
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zoux posted:Also has anyone ever explained why he drinks by pouring liquid on his head? He has a terrible drinking problem.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:53
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Doesn't he say its because he doesn't want to remove the mask?
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Nov 11, 2015 19:12
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He's Quiet.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:04
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After reading ANAD Wolverine I'm finally ready to accept that I'll never have a decently written Laura again. Then again this is only one issue so maybe down the line it'll turn out better...
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Nov 11, 2015 20:42
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What was wrong with ANAD Wolverine? I mean, I'm not phoning the Eisner people but it was fairly standard 'You're more than what they built you to be,
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Nov 11, 2015 21:36
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Some people are really big fans of really bad character X-23 for some reason.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:11
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Not enough sexual abuse subtext toward a teenage girl drawn in sexually provocative ways? When people say they miss the "old X-23" that's all I can think.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:36
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Cabbit posted:What was wrong with ANAD Wolverine? I mean, I'm not phoning the Eisner people but it was fairly standard 'You're more than what they built you to be, I'm always curious what this mythical "true" version of X-23 is supposed to be, since every writer's take that I can recall has either been pretty idiosyncratic or in blandly poor taste. Is it the Marjorie Liu iteration, because that's the only run where I've ever really found the character compelling, and even then, her whole enterprise seemed geared towards taking the character out of a rut and inviting future writers to take her in a different direction. Bendis didn't exactly do wonders for her, sure, but I think he was definitely following Liu's hint in taking her away from her gross exploitation roots.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:39
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I know blaming Bendis is the popular thing, but I can recall a total of like maybe 5 pages she appeared in the entire run.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:04
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I saw a few people earlier posting the scene with the super-awkward pat on the head so they could overreact about how weird it looks out of context. People need to figure out some way to live without a daily recreational rage-boner.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:20
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Aphrodite posted:I know blaming Bendis is the popular thing, but I can recall a total of like maybe 5 pages she appeared in the entire run. Exactly. I have no idea what there was to be mad about in his portrayal. She was a more or less perfectly functional part of an ensemble cast.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:21
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Archyduke posted:Exactly. I have no idea what there was to be mad about in his portrayal. She was a more or less perfectly functional part of an ensemble cast. To be fairer than is perhaps warranted, Bendis's voice for Laura was a notable if not radical departure from her past portrayal, at least at first.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:25
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Archyduke posted:I'm always curious what this mythical "true" version of X-23 is supposed to be, since every writer's take that I can recall has either been pretty idiosyncratic or in blandly poor taste. Is it the Marjorie Liu iteration, because that's the only run where I've ever really found the character compelling, and even then, her whole enterprise seemed geared towards taking the character out of a rut and inviting future writers to take her in a different direction. Bendis didn't exactly do wonders for her, sure, but I think he was definitely following Liu's hint in taking her away from her gross exploitation roots. It's the Liu run, yes. Unfortunately Bendis did the exact same thing with her he does with all his characters, disregarding her original voice and writing the same as all his other characters, more or less. That, and the Liu run was about her striking out on her own, while Bendis drags her right back into the X-Men books. I kind of found it bothersome how after all the setup between her & teen Scott went to waste when Rucka sent him into space, Bendis more or less shrugged and paired her up with Angel without any real leadup. I guess he had 'Laura hooks up with member of the O5' in his plans and he didn't want to change it too much. But I really dislike the implication she had to hook up with someone as part of her character development. Liu's run actively shot down the Laura/Hellion subplot for good and was instead mostly about her being bros with Jubilee & Gambit. I guess it's just me, but I'm not sure that any of the Kyle/Yost stuff was overly focused upon her 'gross exploitation roots' (I assume you mean the prostitution stuff)? Probably because that wasn't their idea (X-23 was originally created for a children's cartoon, remember) - that was all added in NYX by Joe Quesada (thanks, Joe). I'd agree they kind of clung on a bit too tightly to her stuff with the facility, though, and the whole trigger scent business has dragged on long enough. I really wish they'd invited Liu back for this, I think if her book had Wolverine in the title (or maybe a more compelling title than 'X-23' - Yost & Kyle should really have given her a codename once she joined the New X-Men - I think they missed their window to dub her Talon as they originally planned). Instead we have healing headpats and flashbacks to X-Force that still have her talking in the Bendisian Snarkmeister mold.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:29
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