China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > China Megathread - Their navy can be taken seriously or taken littorally

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icantfindaname: Jul 1, 2008

so china's northeast is basically mordor except colder and less exciting, then?

yes i stole that from arglebarge. he's a forum superstar, what can i say

# ? Nov 10, 2015 00:11

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# ? May 12, 2024 01:52

Lucy Heartfilia: May 31, 2012

At this point it's better to smoke cigarettes, because that way the air you breathe in is at least somewhat filtered.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 00:13

Badger of Basra: Jul 26, 2007

Does anyone know how this compares to the worst episodes of urban pollution in the US?

# ? Nov 10, 2015 01:04

Dr. Tough: Oct 22, 2007

Badger of Basra posted:

Does anyone know how this compares to the worst episodes of urban pollution in the US?

Well Fresno is supposedly the most polluted city in America and it's AQI today is 46.

edit: currently 28 where I live in the car-centric city of Orlando

# ? Nov 10, 2015 01:12

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

PM2.5 is a pretty recent measurement standard so it isn't possible to do an apples to apples comparison. It it probably safe to say that the problem in China is at least an order of magnitude or two worse than LA ever was. The better comparison would probably be London.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 04:09

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005; Can't post for 3 hours!

Shifty Pony posted:

PM2.5 is a pretty recent measurement standard so it isn't possible to do an apples to apples comparison. It it probably safe to say that the problem in China is at least an order of magnitude or two worse than LA ever was. The better comparison would probably be London.

Some of the photos of LA in the 1940's when the air quality was at it's historical worst (refineries) look pretty on par with pretty bad days in China.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 04:20

Baronjutter: Dec 31, 2007; "Tiny Trains"

Didn't thousands of people die in like a week of London's worst pollution days? London wasn't "foggy" it was toxic smoke.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 19:17

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Baronjutter posted:

Didn't thousands of people die in like a week of London's worst pollution days? London wasn't "foggy" it was toxic smoke.

They had thousands of deaths events multiple times in London, IIRC.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 19:26

MrNemo: Aug 26, 2010; "I just love beeting off"

The great smog was 4 or 5 days of basically a thick fog (made from moisture in the atmosphere with all the associated pollutants, think basically acid rain in fog form) that also trapped all the smoke, etc. being produced in London. link.

Of course the response to that was the Clean Air Act of 1956 and then 1968. It was gradual but it did see the government making a real effort to crack down on factory pollution and help people start using less harmful or polluting forms of heating, etc. China hasn't really taken that kind of clear, legal stand against pollution and they're also looking at basically every large urban centre in the country, not just Beijing.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 20:54

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

The rust belt in the USA had some fun incidents as well. For example there was the (relatively unknown) Donora PA smog of 1948. Twenty people killed by acute fluorine poisoning, 50 dead in the aftermath, 7k sickened in five days. In a town of 14k due to a single zinc smelting plant.

# ? Nov 10, 2015 21:36

Daduzi: Nov 22, 2005; You can't hide from the Grim Reaper. Especially when he's got a gun.

Bip Roberts posted:

Some of the photos of LA in the 1940's when the air quality was at it's historical worst (refineries) look pretty on par with pretty bad days in China.

Man, you weren't kidding.

Also, what's this about Hong Kong publishers going missing?

# ? Nov 10, 2015 22:50

Corek: May 11, 2013; by R. Guyovich

Is there any hope of air quality getting better anytime soon?

# ? Nov 11, 2015 02:26

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Corek posted:

Is there any hope of air quality getting better anytime soon?

Yes, because however bad it gets in Beijing is how bad the Party heads have to deal with.

One of the main issues (talking with some Chinese friends) seems to be that almost everyone in the North has a personal coal heater and multiplied by several million that generates a whole bunch of extra pollution.

Even if they stayed with coal for electricity but switched to an electric heater (which they actually have but don't use because it's not as effective) it would make a massive difference in air quality.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 03:17

Nintendo Kid: Aug 4, 2011; by Smythe

Home coal heating was a huge driver in the London smog problems, and some US cities too - though private home coal furnaces seemed to have died quicker in the US than anywhere else.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 03:19

Vladimir Putin: Mar 17, 2007; by R. Guyovich

By some sort of actuarial math VWs cheat cars killed anywhere from 50-100 people.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 04:38

Bip Roberts: Mar 29, 2005; Can't post for 3 hours!

Vladimir Putin posted:

By some sort of actuarial math VWs cheat cars killed anywhere from 50-100 people.

I wonder how many lives were saved by they ability of smooth diesel turbocharged power to pull out of dangerous road events.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 04:51

asdf32: May 15, 2010; I lust for childrens' deaths. Ask me about how I don't care if my kids die.

Bip Roberts posted:

I wonder how many lives were saved by they ability of smooth diesel turbocharged power to pull out of dangerous road events.

Like none. The idea that a faster car is safer is myth.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 05:54

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Vladimir Putin posted:

By some sort of actuarial math VWs cheat cars killed anywhere from 50-100 people.

I saw ~70 people per year, and I think the cheating program was a thing for 5-6 years.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 05:54

Grand Fromage: Jan 30, 2006; L-l-look at you bar-bartender, a-a pa-pathetic creature of meat and bone, un-underestimating my l-l-liver's ability to metab-meTABolize t-toxins. How can you p-poison a perfect, immortal alcohOLIC?

There were times in Pittsburgh where theaters shut because the smog was so thick you couldn't see the screen. Inside.

So yes this is not new. And the good thing is pollution is a fixable problem. The US only really started cleaning up hardcore in the 70s and it was mostly better by the 90s. The Chinese government is also aware of the magnitude of the problem and is legitimately working on it.

You can often spot problems the government is working on by the topics you're allowed to bitch about publicly. Pollution and corruption (below the national level) are two of those.

# ? Nov 11, 2015 13:15

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Grand Fromage posted:

You can often spot problems the government is working on by the topics you're allowed to bitch about publicly. Pollution and corruption (below the national level) are two of those.

Ah I was wondering about that.

# ? Nov 12, 2015 12:14

Trench_Rat: Sep 19, 2006; Doing my duty for king and coutry since 86

Bro Dad posted:

China pollution reaching record levels

Apparently in Shenyang the PM 2.5 was 56 times the acceptable limit this weekend. It seems like Northeast China is almost becoming uninhabitable in the winter months.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ4K0hHin9s

# ? Nov 12, 2015 13:05

MrNemo: Aug 26, 2010; "I just love beeting off"

Grand Fromage posted:

There were times in Pittsburgh where theaters shut because the smog was so thick you couldn't see the screen. Inside.

So yes this is not new. And the good thing is pollution is a fixable problem. The US only really started cleaning up hardcore in the 70s and it was mostly better by the 90s. The Chinese government is also aware of the magnitude of the problem and is legitimately working on it.

You can often spot problems the government is working on by the topics you're allowed to bitch about publicly. Pollution and corruption (below the national level) are two of those.

The more depressing thing apparently is the soil pollution. Air pollution generally cleans up within a couple of years of introducing and enforcing appropriate measures. Even waterways can be cleaned up in a few years of stopping dumping poo poo in it. Soil pollution is more on the order of decades before start to see improvement and some parts of China are pretty much uninhabitable by now. Which I guess is the price they pay for being the planet's current rare earths monopoly.

# ? Nov 13, 2015 22:48

hong kong divorce lunch: Sep 20, 2005

Hk elections: fake doctor Liz Quat got beaten by a wheelchair bound man and all village districts in Yuen long went uncontested to government redneck cronies

# ? Nov 23, 2015 04:04

Kill All Cops: Apr 11, 2007; Pacheco de Chocobo; Hell Gem

augustus gluten posted:

fake doctor Liz Quat got beaten by a wheelchair bound man

wish this was literal

# ? Nov 23, 2015 04:58

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

So the SCMP has been bought by Jack Ma. Pretty soon it will be just be another PRC mouthpiece (though it's been headed that way for a while).

quote:

Last but not least, let�s talk about freedom once again and why it makes a difference for Hong Kong

This is my seventh year in Hong Kong. If you ask me what really makes Hong Kong different, compared with Shanghai where I was born or the rest of China, the first word which pops up in my mind to this question will be �freedom�.

Freedom is not just a concept but something that all of us can easily understand and experience. Whenever you walk across the border and step onto Shenzhen, Hong Kong�s closest neighbour, you know you need a bit technical help to keep you connected and informed on your smartphone.

Freedom is not just about information. Freedom is about choice. Uber doesn�t kill traditional taxi business. It�s all about people�s choice.

It�s just like that some prefer coffee while others like to drink tea. Google won�t replace Baidu but you know where you can do better search in English, still the dominant language for information in the vast reaches of cyberspace, especially for our young students when they write their essays.

�I will also observe that if you are here in Hong Kong, and the Chinese government decides to change that, you will miss it. It�s important to stay right upfront. It�s an important aspect for real culture (in Hong Kong),� said Google chairman Eric Schmidt, alluding to the importance of freedom of speech and the Internet for both Hong Kong and Mainland China. That was from my 2013 interview with him when Schmidt visited Hong Kong.

Of course, as some of my readers will argue and I do agree that you can�t just keep writing about the importance of freedom in the hope that freedom can fix everything. No, it can�t.

What freedom can do is to help people to think, and think deeper for different ideas. The more ideas, the more solutions we will have to solve different problems. That�s why in Hong Kong we always welcome different kinds of debates and share many different views, no matter they are from a particular lens or not.

At the end of the day, it�s the people who should have their freedom to choose whatever they want to read or what kind of ideas they choose to believe.

On top of my other responsibilities at the century-old newspaper, I have published my columns �Mr. Shangkong� -- the combination of my two hometowns Shanghai and Hong Kong -- in the South China Morning Post every Monday since the summer of 2012.

Sometimes my columns did get me into trouble, but I have also made a lot of friends. As I publish my last Mr. Shangkong column in the Post today, I say thank-you to all my readers.

Freedom can�t immediately guarantee you what is right or wrong. But without freedom, you will never get closer to the truth. Shanghai or Shenzhen may someday overtake Hong Kong as the leading financial centre in terms of market size and dealing activities, but Hong Kong should know it is freedom not just the stock market that can continue to make a difference for Hong Kong.

If there is anything I can share with Alibaba, the new owner of the Post, as a part of my humble advice, I will say the real valuation of the Post is not in any price tag but freedom, a key part of Hong Kong�s core values shared by the majority of the society.

For Hong Kong, and anywhere in the world, I believe freedom is just priceless.

http://www.scmp.com/business/article/1890587/last-not-least-lets-talk-about-freedom-once-again-and-why-it-makes

:smith:

# ? Dec 14, 2015 09:57

vanity slug: Jul 20, 2010

It's not like Robert Kuok wasn't a CCP crony.

# ? Dec 14, 2015 10:08

caberham: Mar 18, 2009; by Smythe; Grimey Drawer

SCMP is green lighted to go through the great fire wall whereas Hong Kong FreePress got banned after a few months

# ? Dec 14, 2015 10:44

Lucy Heartfilia: May 31, 2012

Propaganda Games: Sesame Credit - The True Danger of Gamification
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI

China turns obedience, surveillance and social control into a game.

# ? Dec 16, 2015 21:49

sincx: Jul 13, 2012; furiously masturbating to anime titties

sincx fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Mar 23, 2021

# ? Dec 16, 2015 22:37

TheBalor: Jun 18, 2001

sincx posted:

Taiwan needs its own nuclear deterrence. There needs to be a place in the world that shows Chinese culture is in fact compatible with freedom and democracy.

Barring total collapse of US power due to the Yosemite Caldera blowing the gently caress up or something, is there ever a chance that Taiwan becomes part of the mainland again? Surely they've taken notice of how China treats vassals with a history of democracy.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 01:04

BCR: Jan 23, 2011

Well you have the CCP running China now like the GMD would want to. And when you've got the GMD being self serving fuckwits, independence ain't that obvious in the long term.

So thank gently caress they're getting voted out soon.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 01:18

blueyedevil: Apr 17, 2014

TheBalor posted:

Barring total collapse of US power due to the Yosemite Caldera blowing the gently caress up or something, is there ever a chance that Taiwan becomes part of the mainland again? Surely they've taken notice of how China treats vassals with a history of democracy.

I may be a bit ignorant, but which Chinese vassals have a history of democracy?

# ? Dec 17, 2015 04:05

My Imaginary GF: Jul 17, 2005; by R. Guyovich

When and how are best policies to force China to realize that the fake islands its constructed are as meaningful as America's concrete battleships?

Commie Chinas' whole 'I feel insulted' rhetoric sounds like the language of cowards.

America does not like nor respect cryhards.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 04:08

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

TheBalor posted:

Barring total collapse of US power due to the Yosemite Caldera blowing the gently caress up or something, is there ever a chance that Taiwan becomes part of the mainland again? Surely they've taken notice of how China treats vassals with a history of democracy.

I would rate it as more likely than Hispaniola becoming one nation.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 04:10

TheBalor: Jun 18, 2001

blueyedevil posted:

I may be a bit ignorant, but which Chinese vassals have a history of democracy?

I was mainly thinking of Hong Kong.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 06:08

Xtronoc: Aug 29, 2004; Pillbug

My Imaginary GF posted:

When and how are best policies to force China to realize that the fake islands its constructed are as meaningful as America's concrete battleships?

Commie Chinas' whole 'I feel insulted' rhetoric sounds like the language of cowards.

America does not like nor respect cryhards.

Park some carriers within 11.5 nautical miles of these islands.

Hell, start having multilateral military training exercises around them

# ? Dec 17, 2015 07:46

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

TheBalor posted:

I was mainly thinking of Hong Kong.

Hong Kong is a bunch of bougie assholes though, the only reason they look good is that you're comparing them to the CCP.

They literally wrote a song about how their neighbors are locusts that should be exterminated.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 07:50

paradoxGentleman: Dec 10, 2013; wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Lucy Heartfilia posted:

Propaganda Games: Sesame Credit - The True Danger of Gamification
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHcTKWiZ8sI

China turns obedience, surveillance and social control into a game.

This is super, super scary.

# ? Dec 17, 2015 09:59