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We still haven't gotten to the part where the teacher puppets go to a bar with a giant brain.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:25
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Remember how this chapter started in media res? I didn't.
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Nov 9, 2015 17:39
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Calaveron posted:Remember how this chapter started in media res? I didn't.
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Nov 10, 2015 06:41
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I don't want to, like, be a dick or anything, but when was the last time Zach actually managed to hit three update days in a row? It feels like it might've been June or something.
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Nov 11, 2015 02:50
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Around beginning of October. It was around August and September he started to have delays more than usual.
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Nov 11, 2015 03:45
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The chapter would probably be over by now if he could keep to the schedule. It's definitely a bit of a bummer.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:43
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He's been to cons around the country this summer; I think between that, college, and you know, life, he deserves a little leeway.
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Nov 11, 2015 08:00
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kinmik posted:He's been to cons around the country this summer; I think between that, college, and you know, life, he deserves a little leeway. Howard Tayler is always my response to this kind of thing. I know that Howard is only doing single strips six days a week with a full-page spread every Sunday, but the man has managed to - within the lifetime of his comic, mind - attend cons around the country, hold down two full-time jobs at large companies, get married, have and raise several children, and transition to the magic of self-employment. All of that without missing a single day of updates, even counting technological issues.
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Nov 11, 2015 09:31
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Exit Strategy posted:Howard Tayler is always my response to this kind of thing. I know that Howard is only doing single strips six days a week with a full-page spread every Sunday, but the man has managed to - within the lifetime of his comic, mind - attend cons around the country, hold down two full-time jobs at large companies, get married, have and raise several children, and transition to the magic of self-employment. All of that without missing a single day of updates, even counting technological issues. I had a hunch and yeah it's fairly obvious how that dude can fit writing the comic into his schedule 
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Nov 11, 2015 09:36
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paranatural should use stick figures and clipart to keep up with my fast-paced jet-setter lifestyle of bitching about the same internet comic for days and days and days and days until it updates
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Nov 11, 2015 12:22
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If you consider the amount of work and detail that goes into a Paranatural page I think Zack still works more than this dude.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:48
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I think a better go-to example would be Gunnerkrigg Court which I think it has never in its entire lifetime missed an update and has something absurd like a 30-strip backlog plus the author does do cons and up until recently (I think?) had another job.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:49
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A Wizard of Goatse posted:paranatural should use stick figures and clipart to keep up with my fast-paced jet-setter lifestyle of bitching about the same internet comic for days and days and days and days until it updates If there is one thing to learn from Order of the Stick, it's that stick figures do not necessarily allow fast output. Calaveron posted:I think a better go-to example would be Gunnerkrigg Court which I think it has never in its entire lifetime missed an update and has something absurd like a 30-strip backlog plus the author does do cons and up until recently (I think?) had another job. Well it's been a while now, but yeah Gunnerkrigg Court updates with full pages three times per week without fail, even when the author had a day job (that he hated). Schlock Mercenary updates every day without fail, but that corresponds to only about two page per week, since it's a single strip on weekdays and a full page on Sundays. Paranatural couldn't use the Schlock Mercenary approach because Zach relies far too much on full page layouts to have half the story consist of flat strips.
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Nov 11, 2015 13:56
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Cat Mattress posted:Well it's been a while now, but yeah Gunnerkrigg Court updates with full pages three times per week without fail, even when the author had a day job (that he hated). Just to point out the obvious here; I, and a lot of others are working a full time job and our webcomics don't put out any updates a week. Just because some people manage it does not mean that it's the norm, or that it should be expected to be the norm. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 14:31
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I actually had to look that Tayler dude up and while I'm happy for his success, I gotta say I agree that the comparison between him and Zack is unfair. I don't know what kind of story Mercenary is, but it's obvious each installment of Paranatural is a small part of a cohesive whole. Just looking at what flatluigi posted seems almost as if it's a Sunday paper comic strip like Foxtrot or Marmaduke.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:33
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kinmik posted:I actually had to look that Tayler dude up and while I'm happy for his success, I gotta say I agree that the comparison between him and Zack is unfair. I don't know what kind of story Mercenary is, but it's obvious each installment of Paranatural is a small part of a cohesive whole. Just looking at what flatluigi posted seems almost as if it's a Sunday paper comic strip like Foxtrot or Marmaduke. It's really not. It's a long form cohesive story.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:49
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Also, despite all the complaining about gradient backgrounds, Zack puts a lot of time and effort into his art, and it really shows.
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Nov 11, 2015 14:58
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Keeshhound posted:Just to point out the obvious here; I, and a lot of others working a full time job and our webcomics don't put out any updates a week. Just because some people manage it does not mean that it's the norm, or that it should be expected to be the norm. no, webcomic artist G here posts 17 pages in between working seven full time jobs and doing community service helping the poor and donating drums of blood every day and why can't everyone else just step their game up and make eighty pages every minutes???
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Nov 11, 2015 15:04
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Forgive me my foolish hubris, mighty senpais. I will simply wait and be content for when, once the moons properly align, the almighty Artist designs to feed me scraps from his plate. For real I just think if he can't handle multiple updates he should stop kidding himself and switch to a weekly update schedule. It'd likely mean less stress on his end and less disappointment all around. His update schedule is awful, and I think actively hurts the story when read serially like this, that obviously won't be an issue once it's all complete but right now you have a bunch of people complaining about how drawn out this arc is and getting frustrated and it's not all because of the actual content.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:12
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If you feel the update pace is too slow then stop reading for several months, then come back and read it all at once. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head forcing them to mash F5, nor is Zack under any actual obligation to update every Tuesday and Friday. Especially considering we got a triple page update last Friday and are expecting a double page update this Friday.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:47
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drat Billy Gunnerkrigg ruining the curve for the rest of the class.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:53
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Personally I wouldn't mind if Paranatural updated only once per week. Zach shouldn't burn himself out trying to keep up with an arbitrary schedule. I'm patient. And yeah for a lot of reasons different people working on different comics with different other worries to keep track off have different update rhythms. It's okay.
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Nov 11, 2015 15:54
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Cat Mattress posted:Personally I wouldn't mind if Paranatural updated only once per week. Zach shouldn't burn himself out trying to keep up with an arbitrary schedule. I'm patient.
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Nov 11, 2015 17:49
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Nov 11, 2015 17:56
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Zack is a super nice dude on Twitter, he even favorited and retweeted a really bad joke I sent him. People need to be less harsh on the dude.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:16
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I wasn't intending to be harsh. I just think it's a bummer he's having trouble meeting the standards he set for himself. Having a reliable update schedule does matter a lot when building a reader base. I know I've lost track of some good comics just because they updated so erratically. Maybe he should take a break post chapter and build up a buffer so he'll be under less intense pressure.
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Nov 11, 2015 18:26
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I just honestly think that sticking to his current schedule isn't the best idea for him. I think he'd be better drawing an entire chapter and releasing it once it's over. Serial storytelling can work, but I don't think a few pages a week are really enough for a lot of stories to work with and in cases like Paranatural just hurt it. A lot of webcomics seem to treat the "one page at a time" thing as a weird sacred cow.
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Nov 11, 2015 19:06
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Fecha posted:I wasn't intending to be harsh. I just think it's a bummer he's having trouble meeting the standards he set for himself. Having a reliable update schedule does matter a lot when building a reader base. I know I've lost track of some good comics just because they updated so erratically. Maybe he should take a break post chapter and build up a buffer so he'll be under less intense pressure. I know it's crazy but, Who What Now may have meant people outside of this thread on the larger internet instead of you specifically Fecha.
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Nov 11, 2015 19:08
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Prison Warden posted:I just honestly think that sticking to his current schedule isn't the best idea for him. I think he'd be better drawing an entire chapter and releasing it once it's over. Serial storytelling can work, but I don't think a few pages a week are really enough for a lot of stories to work with and in cases like Paranatural just hurt it. A lot of webcomics seem to treat the "one page at a time" thing as a weird sacred cow. Has a single webcomic gained success doing that? You need to keep up a good rate of content to maintain attention on the Internet. That's how Homestuck's skinner-box update rate got it so popular, and why pretty much all the popular awful webcomics update daily or close to it.
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Nov 11, 2015 19:19
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A better 'art and schedule' webcomic example is SSSS, which has averaged 4 pages a week across two years of updates. Also it's really beautifully drawn. Tunicate fucked around with this message at 19:41 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 19:38
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Tunicate posted:A better 'art and schedule' webcomic example is SSSS, which has averaged 4 pages a week across two years of updates. I hate to compare Zach to Minna Sundberg though. I commend her update schedule for SSSS and Redtail's before it, but don't feel it's right to hold other artists up to her schedule. I think the main problem here is not so much the slow pace as having a consistent update schedule. Once a week or whatever is fine, as long as it's consistent. And maybe Prison Warden is right in the idea that Zach should release in chapters for better flow. Personally, I don't feel I have any room to complain at Zach or here about my free entertainment, yet on the other hand as a reader, I've moved Paranatural to my "read every month or two" list.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:10
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Update schedule is a weird issue to debate because there's so many factors involved, not the least of which is "does this count as free entertainment or not". Web ads mostly go to site maintenance, but merchandise is associated with the brand. Does the branding mean the comic is in the realm of "held to the standard of paid products"? If yes, why? Not everyone has to buy a shirt to read the comic. If no, why not? Just because the marketing is decentralized doesn't mean it's not marketed.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:22
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Zach could try Unsounded's schedule, where after each chapter you take a break to build up a buffer but otherwise release daily. Releasing daily does have benefits, it keeps readership interested and helps build tension without breaking the sense of continuity, so long as you don't miss updates.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:29
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maybe instead of adopting and comparing other artist's schedules he could just update his free comic whenever and be happy
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Nov 11, 2015 20:36
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Unsounded has a pretty varying schedule, sorta. It's MWF but sometimes it'll release several updates in advance and pause to catch up, and takes a break between chapters.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:36
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Good news for everyone who wants Paranatural to update in chapters instead of pages, you can just stop reading until a chapter's complete. In other news, I noticed this line on the site: quote:*EDIT* Sorry guys, I wasn't able to finish 2 pages for a double update today! The 3-pager and mini con I did on Saturday took more out of me than expected. Once again, these next two pages read best together, so I'm going to update with both of them on Friday instead of today! Sorry about that, and thank you for your patience with this scene! It's the big end to a big arc and I want to do it right. Thanks for reading! Hitball will end this update, and the chapter will probably end pretty quick once Hitball is over.
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Nov 11, 2015 20:56
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Really, this is just the age old internet thing where somebody said they'd do something and didn't follow through, so the audience resents the fact that their expectations were not met. It's nowhere near the level of Aaron Diaz or that one guy who was doing a pay comic and literally did not put out the product which collectively he was paid over a thousand dollars to produce. This is why most comics that are physically published have multiple people working on them, so they can get the work done within a tighter schedule. Tenebrais posted:Has a single webcomic gained success doing that? You need to keep up a good rate of content to maintain attention on the Internet. That's how Homestuck's skinner-box update rate got it so popular, and why pretty much all the popular awful webcomics update daily or close to it. It really would depend on how you define "success," wouldn't it? Obviously you couldn't generate as much site traffic with that sort of model, but there's also selling shirts, the theoretical eventually making a book and publishing it, and these days, also patreon. Errant Story did a neat thing where they had this thing that would notify readers when a chapter was finished, so they could go through it all at once, while also doing a regular page-a-day update schedule. Unsounded pulls the trick of often doing multiple updates at once with the tradeoff of missing updates after multi-page updats so it still averages out at the same rate, and it's doing fine. Edit: Kabanaw posted:Hitball will end this update, and the chapter will probably end pretty quick once Hitball is over. Called it.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:09
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Christ you people are assholes. Zack seems like a cool dude who is giving us something awesome for free. Cut him some slack. Full-page color comics like this can take 10+ hours to make EACH. At two a week thats basically half a full time job pluss con trips, pluss website maintenence, pluss guest comics. That's a lot if work even before you factor in things like the fact that this isnt his day job or that the revenue the comic generates is probably not nearly as much as you think it is. Get over it, Zack doesn't owe you poo poo. Just relax and enjoy the cool comic as it comes. readingatwork fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 21:11
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Tenebrais posted:Has a single webcomic gained success doing that? You need to keep up a good rate of content to maintain attention on the Internet. That's how Homestuck's skinner-box update rate got it so popular, and why pretty much all the popular awful webcomics update daily or close to it. An alternative would be to do what Platinum Black or What Birds Know do: release in batches of three-to-five pages when they're ready. It's more frequent (and less overwhelming) than one full chapter every who-knows-how-many months, but more flexible than getting new pages on every whateverday.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:26
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readingatwork posted:Christ you people are assholes. Zack seems like a cool dude who is giving us something awesome for free. Cut him some slack. Just because something doesn't cost money doesn't magically make it immune to criticism, what kind of argument even is that? Nor does criticising something make person some kind of murderous internet troll. Tenebrais posted:Has a single webcomic gained success doing that? You need to keep up a good rate of content to maintain attention on the Internet. That's how Homestuck's skinner-box update rate got it so popular, and why pretty much all the popular awful webcomics update daily or close to it. This is a point I guess. I think One Punch man (the original version) has that kind of release schedule? A whole bunch of actual, like, physical comics were published that way even if a lot of US comics stick to an issue-a-month schedule even when there's not much reason for it. I feel like if something is good enough (and Paranatural is) it could stand on it's own merits. the days of internet ad revenue being a huge thing are kind of over aren't they? I'm sure Zack could maintain a good income of readers (and money for hosting) through Patreon and merch sales at this point. I think my main concern is if you build up a rep for erratic updates it makes people more likely to bail altogether or lose interest.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:45
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