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icantfindaname posted:is there actually a legal precedent that public universities must allow free speech on their campuses? could i drive down to missouri tomorrow with a truckload of 'jews did 9/11' signs and parade them around on campus? because if not, appeals to free speech w/r/t these protestors fall much flatter to me
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Nov 11, 2015 21:40
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mdemone posted:How about we probate the poo poo out of him and give him a huge dose of targeted community service? Yeah, I'm down with handing out probation and community service for basically everything but being convicted of a violent act.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:41
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JT Jag posted:There are often sanctioned free speech zones you can occupy to say whatever the hell you want. Sometimes they have to be reserved. I'm imagining like a 10mx10m box surrounded by police cordons and laughing
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Nov 11, 2015 21:44
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JT Jag posted:There are often sanctioned free speech zones you can occupy to say whatever the hell you want. Sometimes they have to be reserved. And even that ends up being controversial! Earlier this semester black students occupied speaker circle so they could have an anti-racism rally and some kid started yelling that they were violating his free speech since they wouldn't allow the blaring of loud techno music to drown them out.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:45
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alpha_destroy posted:And even that ends up being controversial! Earlier this semester black students occupied speaker circle so they could have an anti-racism rally and some kid started yelling that they were violating his free speech since they wouldn't allow the blaring of loud techno music to drown them out. sounds like some tumblrite far-left tyrrany to me. pretty soon we'll all be wearing identical jumpsuits and referred to by numbers instead of names
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Nov 11, 2015 21:47
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icantfindaname posted:is there actually a legal precedent that public universities must allow free speech on their campuses? could i drive down to missouri tomorrow with a truckload of 'jews did 9/11' signs and parade them around on campus? because if not, appeals to free speech w/r/t these protestors fall much flatter to me Mizzou's campus includes a small outdoor amphitheater called Speaker's Circle, which is one of two places in the state in which freedom of speech is considered 100% protected/true. It often hosts a number of fringe, shock evangelists like former Columbia resident and college campus mainstay Brother Jed Smock, who'll prop up in a lawn chair and yell at anyone who walks by about how they're a fag or a whore who will burn in hell for eternity. Sometimes cops will show up when a big enough crowd forms just to make sure things don't get out of hand, and I personally once saw a similar fire-and-brimstone local kook get taken away in handcuffs when he got so mad at a heckler he picked up his chair and threw it at him. But you officially can't get in trouble for something you or your picket signs say there. This isn't the case for the rest of campus, though how evenly that is enforced or where they draw lines I don't know.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:47
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icantfindaname posted:is there actually a legal precedent that public universities must allow free speech on their campuses? could i drive down to missouri tomorrow with a truckload of 'jews did 9/11' signs and parade them around on campus? because if not, appeals to free speech w/r/t these protestors fall much flatter to me poo poo like that happens all the time on campuses with abortion protests and street preachers and the like. There's generally a permitting or approval process depending on the school.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:49
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The state college I went to always claimed that there was nothing they could do about the nutjob street preachers because of freedom of speech. They would show up from time to time and yell at all the women students for existing. Sometimes they did it while carrying around giant dismembered miscarriage pictures they claim were abortions.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:53
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comes along bort posted:poo poo like that happens all the time on campuses with abortion protests and street preachers and the like. There's generally a permitting or approval process depending on the school. but they could reject any request for approval arbitrarily, correct?
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Nov 11, 2015 21:54
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icantfindaname posted:is there actually a legal precedent that public universities must allow free speech on their campuses? could i drive down to missouri tomorrow with a truckload of 'jews did 9/11' signs and parade them around on campus? because if not, appeals to free speech w/r/t these protestors fall much flatter to me There were at least two separate gruesome prolife demonstrations on campus with big ol pictures of miscarried fetuses when I was there, and I don't recall the campus preacher yelling at passersby about sluts and gays ever getting in trouble. Not sure what the legal precedent is but Mizzou was fairly lax about allowing controversial stuff.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:55
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Shifty Pony posted:The state college I went to always claimed that there was nothing they could do about the nutjob street preachers because of freedom of speech. They would show up from time to time and yell at all the women students for existing. Sometimes they did it while carrying around giant dismembered miscarriage pictures they claim were abortions. This sort of thing makes me wish the tradition of pelting such people with rotten fruit and cabbage until they bugger off would come back.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:59
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I understand where some of the students are coming from though. Being photographed at a charged event like this could potentially put you in danger. Like if your face goes viral and spreads across comment sections and Freep, etc.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:59
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icantfindaname posted:but they could reject any request for approval arbitrarily, correct? Sure, but usually they don't. And like Shifty Pony mentioned a lot of people/groups don't even bother going through that much trouble; they'll just show up until someone asks them to leave.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:03
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icantfindaname posted:but they could reject any request for approval arbitrarily, correct? Depending on the school, they can push it as 'a student safety comes first' issue and bar or remove someone. It's obviously way easier for private colleges/universities to do that than public ones, though. What often happens is that the less savvy people who come to preach on a campus will also take a moment to pamphlet or even attempt to deface books in the library. Many, if not most, schools have anti-pamphleting policies (I don't mean handing out pamphlets, I mean stuffing them into library books) and no school likes having their property wrecked so it's not exactly uncommon for particularly obnoxious types to get themselves caught doing it and banned that way.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:15
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icantfindaname posted:is there actually a legal precedent that public universities must allow free speech on their campuses? could i drive down to missouri tomorrow with a truckload of 'jews did 9/11' signs and parade them around on campus? because if not, appeals to free speech w/r/t these protestors fall much flatter to me Wanting to record an ongoing protest as part of your job is equivalent to parading around with hate speech laden signs?
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Nov 11, 2015 22:17
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Bluedeanie posted:e: Mizzou hires some real great professors these days! This got some national attention, and I don't know how reputable Campus Reform is but apparently the professor has resigned. http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6971
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Nov 11, 2015 22:21
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icantfindaname posted:but they could reject any request for approval arbitrarily, correct? Not arbitrarily, but they can restrict speech in a few cases. University grounds are generally considered limited public forums, which means that they can institute reasonable limitations to speech. Reasonable meaning that they can't for example, ban religious organizations from speaking there just because they are religious (Widmar v Vincent ), but they can prohibit an organization from speaking there if it violates a content neutral regulation (Christian Legal Society v Martinez allowed a university to block a religious organization because the university had a policy that all student organizations had to be open to all, and the religious organization in case wasn't). That is, of course, for the grounds of the university. Classrooms, etc. are nonpublic forums and they can decide whatever they want to do in those.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:30
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Bluedeanie posted:This got some national attention, and I don't know how reputable Campus Reform is but apparently the professor has resigned. Geez, they're dropping like flies.
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Nov 11, 2015 22:33
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MaxxBot posted:Wanting to record an ongoing protest as part of your job is equivalent to parading around with hate speech laden signs? Legally speaking, it sounds like it yes
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Nov 11, 2015 22:34
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Amergin posted:To be fair, most of the people who are calling for this kid's head or this kid to be thrown in prison for a THREAT would also agree to the sentiment that we throw too many people in prison and that our prison system usually acts as an incubator for crime and criminals, rather than as a teaching mechanism. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 22:34
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Zeroisanumber posted:Mugshot has already leaked. He looks like a cross between Jim Morrison and the protagonist of Brutal Legend (a cartoon Jack Black). 
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Nov 11, 2015 22:35
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Bluedeanie posted:This got some national attention, and I don't know how reputable Campus Reform is but apparently the professor has resigned. CampusReform gets all their hits by writing clickbait articles about PC gone mad, they're garbage. That opening paragraph is terrible. quote:Dr. Dale Brigham, considered one of the most beloved professors at the University of Missouri, has resigned after refusing to cancel an exam for students who claimed to feel “unsafe.” A BLOO BLOO THIS BELOVED PROFESSOR (according to two tweets and one person we talked to) HAD TO RESIGN JUST BECAUSE HE COMPARED KKK MEMBERS TO SCHOOLYARD BULLIES also the scare quotes around "unsafe", c'mon if there was a school shooting threatened I'd feel unsafe too
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Nov 11, 2015 23:03
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"Teaching associate professor" huh. Is that what mizzou calls non tenure track lecturers to make them feel better about being paid $30k/year?
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Nov 11, 2015 23:08
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PUGGERNAUT posted:CampusReform gets all their hits by writing clickbait articles about PC gone mad, they're garbage. That opening paragraph is terrible.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:09
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For a completely different, historical discussion: I saw mentioned in the right wing media thread something about the Missouri protesters wanting to remove busts of Jefferson due to his slaveowning legacy, and it got me thinking about the Democratic Party and its ideological heritage. Would it be accurate to say that the United States prior to the Reagan realignment of the 70s had essentially two separate, parallel liberal political traditions, roughly corresponding to the Jeffersonian-Jacksonian Democratic Party, and the Hamiltonian-Whig Republican Party, and that these two collapsed into one single one embodied in the post-70s Democratic Party? In that case the realignment of the 70s would probably be the most significant, fundamental political shift in the United States' history
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 23:26 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 23:11
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Did he resign to be a martyr or something? That's obviously an apologise and you'll be fine scenario.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:11
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hobbesmaster posted:"Teaching associate professor" huh. Is that what mizzou calls non tenure track lecturers to make them feel better about being paid $30k/year? Teaching Associate Professors would be non-tenurable, promotable professors. So they don't have tenure protection, but they do have the opportunity for advancement and have termed appointment (here they're three years at a time.) It's obviously less secure than a tenure position, and does pay less (here I think about 15k less on average) but you don't have the "publish or perish" clock ticking on you and have like maybe a 3/3 or 3/4 load. It's not ideal, obviously, but its a more secure position. if he's an associate, it means he's been there long enough to be promoted from Assistant.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:13
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Boon posted:Because a lot of the rules on SA fell apart sometime around 2010 or so and then everything went to hell (GBS). It's starting to come back a bit, but who knows. I still miss GBS 1.0 sometimes.  Now it's FYAD-lite.I also miss LF. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 11, 2015 23:13
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icantfindaname posted:I'm imagining like a 10mx10m box surrounded by police cordons and laughing Sometime smaller sometimes larger, depends on the number of demonstrators expected.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:14
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pathetic little tramp posted:Did he resign to be a martyr or something? That's obviously an apologise and you'll be fine scenario. I'm guessing he was looking for a respectable way to get off of that sinking ship.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:14
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Bullfrog posted:I understand where some of the students are coming from though. I understand too, but that doesn't excuse pushing and screaming at random photographers to intimidate them.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:14
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Shifty Pony posted:The state college I went to always claimed that there was nothing they could do about the nutjob street preachers because of freedom of speech. They would show up from time to time and yell at all the women students for existing. Sometimes they did it while carrying around giant dismembered miscarriage pictures they claim were abortions. This was an issue at my alma mater a few years back. A feminist studies professor ended up getting sentenced to three years probation + community service after she took and destroyed a pro-life person's aborted fetus sign.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:15
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PUGGERNAUT posted:CampusReform gets all their hits by writing clickbait articles about PC gone mad, they're garbage. That opening paragraph is terrible. Yeah I saw the verbage in that particular article seemed at least a little jilted. Good to know that's their general reputation and level of quality. I've seen at least one other outlet claim Brigham has resigned as a result, but it seems to be of similar quality, although they're posted the alleged email he sent out essentially ragequitting from his job when he was called out it was kind of lovely to make students come on campus when they've been threatened with gun violence. http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6971 pathetic little tramp posted:Did he resign to be a martyr or something? That's obviously an apologise and you'll be fine scenario. Ultimately I agree, which makes it really weird if that email at the end was his actual response and not a fake, especially given that he eventually set up a makeup exam day. His language in that automated email seemed kinda pissy over the fact he was getting flack for that and calling a terrorist threat a "bully" though so maybe he does just have really thin skin, which is laughable over the backdrop of expecting black students to come in for that exam or else the meanie on yikyak who may actually be a deranged gun-toting racist will win. Bluedeanie fucked around with this message at 23:20 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 23:16
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Isn't there a thread (besides GBS) dedicated to Mizzou events?
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Nov 11, 2015 23:20
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It got closed.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:21
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icantfindaname posted:For a completely different, historical discussion: I saw mentioned in the right wing media thread something about the Missouri protesters wanting to remove busts of Jefferson due to his slaveowning legacy, and it got me thinking about the Democratic Party and its ideological heritage. Would it be accurate to say that the United States prior to the Reagan realignment of the 70s had essentially two separate, parallel liberal political traditions, roughly corresponding to the Jeffersonian-Jacksonian Democratic Party, and the Hamiltonian-Whig Republican Party, and that these two collapsed into one single one embodied in the post-70s Democratic Party? In that case the realignment of the 70s would probably be the most significant, fundamental political shift in the United States' history I've always found the realignment theory only partially valid, in so far as the party that is not the Democratic Party has always been defined as the party of industrial interests, while the Democratic Party has defined itself in opposition to whatever interests industry is currently pushing (be it abolitionism, the gold standard, loose monetary policy leading to the Great Depression, high taxes, etc.) The only exception to that would be Republican anti-trust movements during the Progressive Era, but otherwise it holds pretty well.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:23
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Never change, Matt.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:26
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Remember when Drudge was considered one of the first respectable internet journalists Those were the days huh
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Nov 11, 2015 23:28
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JT Jag posted:Remember when Drudge was considered one of the first respectable internet journalists No, I don't. He got big by "breaking" the Lewinsky story while other outlets were double checking the sources. It's been all Clinton bashing and InfoWars links since.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:30
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Joementum posted:No, I don't. He got big by "breaking" the Lewinsky story while other outlets were double checking the sources. It's been all Clinton bashing and InfoWars links since.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:31
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