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Moneyball
Jul 11, 2005

It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.
Your servicer should provide that information. I have Great Lakes, and it appears they put extra money towards the highest interest rate, but I have a couple separate loans with that same rate, so I'd have to call them to specifically apply it to one and not the other.

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The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



If it is with Navient you have to mail them a check and a signed letter saying you want to apply money to a specific loan.

Make sure you get the 10 day payoff amount.

Because Navient say: gently caress you

Fezziwig
Jun 7, 2011

Massasoit posted:

If it is with Navient you have to mail them a check and a signed letter saying you want to apply money to a specific loan.

Make sure you get the 10 day payoff amount.

Because Navient say: gently caress you

I just finished paying off my loans through Navient, and I never had an issue paying for a specific loan on their website. I'm not sure why everyone in this thread keeps saying you can't do it.

1. Click pay loans
2. Enter the amount of your payment, click submit
3. Navient then asks you to distribute your payment between all of your loans. You can put it all on one, or split it up
4. Hit submit again
5. Confirm payment
6. You're done!

They also automatically apply all extra payments to principal.

Ninja Edit: They also continue to charge your monthly automatic deduction.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

Dale Sveum posted:

I just finished paying off my loans through Navient, and I never had an issue paying for a specific loan on their website. I'm not sure why everyone in this thread keeps saying you can't do it.

1. Click pay loans
2. Enter the amount of your payment, click submit
3. Navient then asks you to distribute your payment between all of your loans. You can put it all on one, or split it up
4. Hit submit again
5. Confirm payment
6. You're done!

They also automatically apply all extra payments to principal.

Ninja Edit: They also continue to charge your monthly automatic deduction.

I also never had a problem with paying loans this way with sallie.

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



It may be because that's what the website says to do.

I'd there is another way, that is great news.

100 HOGS AGREE
Oct 13, 2007
Grimey Drawer

Massasoit posted:

It may be because that's what the website says to do.

I'd there is another way, that is great news.

The problem is if you do a second payment in any given month it will always apply as the next pending payment and pay your minimum payment to all your loans before allowing you to distribute the rest in what way you want.

So if you finagle it so you only ever make one payment a month you're fine, but if say you're on autopayment and want to send some extra later to one specific loan it gets super annoying because you can't do it online.

Fezziwig
Jun 7, 2011

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

The problem is if you do a second payment in any given month it will always apply as the next pending payment and pay your minimum payment to all your loans before allowing you to distribute the rest in what way you want.

So if you finagle it so you only ever make one payment a month you're fine, but if say you're on autopayment and want to send some extra later to one specific loan it gets super annoying because you can't do it online.

I made both my automatic payments and extra payments on different dates and never had this issue either. Everything I sent above the minimums, regardless when I sent it, were applied correctly.

So I guess YMMV, but I'm not sure why they would do things differently for different people. :shrug:

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

The problem is if you do a second payment in any given month it will always apply as the next pending payment and pay your minimum payment to all your loans before allowing you to distribute the rest in what way you want.

So if you finagle it so you only ever make one payment a month you're fine, but if say you're on autopayment and want to send some extra later to one specific loan it gets super annoying because you can't do it online.

Yep, this is exactly what happened to me and is complete bullshit.

Wiggy Marie
Jan 16, 2006

Meep!
Try calling them and asking if they have a "paid ahead" feature in their system. They may be able to turn that off. That's what applies payments to future installments, and sometimes they can turn that feature off.

Although I will say, it's a nice feature in case you ever can't make a payment and are out of deferment/forbearance time. Something to keep in mind. Skipping payments can impact incentive programs too, though, so yet another thing to keep in mind!

PyRosflam
Aug 11, 2007
The good, The bad, Im the one with the gun.
Before I moved my account to SOFI, I wanted to pay down my crazy high 7% Navient Loans.

I CALL them, tell them that I want to make a sizable (5k) payment (thanks tax return, I knew you well). Instead they split it between my 2 loans. Best I could tell, there was no physical way to pay ahead on a single loan in the system.

So I called SOFI and they gave me 3% Variable rate. Thankfully I have enough credit cards now that if the rate goes up I can balance transfer that poo poo out of student loans or some other not amazingly smart solution. But Honestly I only have 4 years left.

SOFI is a good deal if you can get it. But you're mostly restricted to Consulting, or Software as a career field (at least in my case.)

Initio
Oct 29, 2007
!

100 HOGS AGREE posted:

The problem is if you do a second payment in any given month it will always apply as the next pending payment and pay your minimum payment to all your loans before allowing you to distribute the rest in what way you want.

So if you finagle it so you only ever make one payment a month you're fine, but if say you're on autopayment and want to send some extra later to one specific loan it gets super annoying because you can't do it online.

I had the same problem. My autodebit would pay the $500 towards the appropriate loans, but if I wanted to pay an extra $200 towards the highest % loan it wouldn't let me allocate the payment on their website. I tried sending a letter with a check, but Navient still just spread it out over all of my loans rather than the specific one I asked them to pay.

The only way I was able to get it fixed was to ask them to put all of my loans into separate groups. This took about an hour on the phone and about 2 weeks of them getting it set in their system, but now I can pay specific loans online.

Edit: The other option I guess would be to skip autodebit, and the website would then let you allocate any extra to whatever loan you wanted, but you'd lose out on the .25% interest reduction by doing this.

Initio fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Nov 6, 2015

Fezziwig
Jun 7, 2011

Initio posted:

I had the same problem. My autodebit would pay the $500 towards the appropriate loans, but if I wanted to pay an extra $200 towards the highest % loan it wouldn't let me allocate the payment on their website. I tried sending a letter with a check, but Navient still just spread it out over all of my loans rather than the specific one I asked them to pay.

The only way I was able to get it fixed was to ask them to put all of my loans into separate groups. This took about an hour on the phone and about 2 weeks of them getting it set in their system, but now I can pay specific loans online.

Edit: The other option I guess would be to skip autodebit, and the website would then let you allocate any extra to whatever loan you wanted, but you'd lose out on the .25% interest reduction by doing this.

Maybe that's why it let me distribute however. All 5 of my loans were different groups.

spwrozek
Sep 4, 2006

Sail when it's windy

Dale Sveum posted:

Maybe that's why it let me distribute however. All 5 of my loans were different groups.

Huh, it was the same for me. Mystery solved finally perhaps.

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
So I went to check the balance of my Citibank student loan and it's disappeared :iiam: is there any way to track this down besides giving them a call because I don't have any correspondence from them regarding a service transfer :I

edit-bank account shows an automatic withdrawal from Firstmark who I've never heard of, and I can't register on their site wheee

mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 00:39 on Nov 7, 2015

The Slack Lagoon
Jun 17, 2008



Looking to refi 50k of private loans with 9.5-9.75% interest rates. Going to be applying with a cosigner. Is DRB a good option? I've looked mostly at Citizens but their rates are higher than others.

Comatoast
Aug 1, 2003

by Fluffdaddy
It took me three years if living in my own woodshop in the hell hole that is north Texas, but it is done. No more debt as of yesterday. I'll be celebrating till new years!

Comatoast fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Nov 13, 2015

antiga
Jan 16, 2013

Massasoit posted:

Looking to refi 50k of private loans with 9.5-9.75% interest rates. Going to be applying with a cosigner. Is DRB a good option? I've looked mostly at Citizens but their rates are higher than others.

Check rates from multiple lenders, you won't necessarily qualify for the advertised rates so it doesn't matter much if one guy is advertising a tenth of a percent lower.

Ailumao
Nov 4, 2004

Is there any bad side at all to paying off one single loan in a group of loans? I can't think of one but I'm paranoid about some crazy "gotcha!" if I do this. This month I actually dug into what each loan is and I can probably knock out one of the higher interest ones without it being too painful on my bank account.

Wiggy Marie
Jan 16, 2006

Meep!
Do it! Just make sure you satisfy the principal and accrued interest or you'll still have a tiny bit left.

Balqis
Sep 5, 2011

I am currently trying to decide between two grad schools for my Masters of TESOL degree. One is in state and I could further cut costs by living at home. The other is private, but I might be able to hack tuition and boarding down through combinations of scholarships, partial tuition assistantships, and student jobs. I'm looking at borrowing 35,000 for the first, or 80,000 for the second. The choice might seem obvious, and maybe it is, but the second school would let me reach my career goals (working as an educational organizer for groups like UNESCO, UnitedAID, or even the Foreign Service) much faster, along with a better wage, because I'd be able to double major with something like international educational policy.

I guess I have three questions. 1) Is it worth it to accrue that much more debt for an education degree when it would allow me more career flexibility down the line?

And 2) Keeping in mind that I'll likely start with a poo poo TESOL teacher salary while I'm trying to accrue useful experience, should I go for the 10 year or 25 year loan? I might start with 40,000 if I'm lucky, but if I'm working in Kabul or Tblisi down the line, I could make near 100,000.

Finally 3) Would goons recommend that I spend the 4-5 years working in disadvantaged schools to get some of that debt remitted? In your experience, has it been worth it?

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

Balqis posted:

I guess I have three questions. 1) Is it worth it to accrue that much more debt for an education degree when it would allow me more career flexibility down the line?

And 2) Keeping in mind that I'll likely start with a poo poo TESOL teacher salary while I'm trying to accrue useful experience, should I go for the 10 year or 25 year loan? I might start with 40,000 if I'm lucky, but if I'm working in Kabul or Tblisi down the line, I could make near 100,000.

Finally 3) Would goons recommend that I spend the 4-5 years working in disadvantaged schools to get some of that debt remitted? In your experience, has it been worth it?

1) Borrow more makes sense if you will definitely get high pay. Servicing an $80,000 10 year loan at 6% would take $888.16 per month which would be a lot of money if you are on much lower pay.

2) Your choice. A longer loan repayment term makes the monthly payments smaller (for $80k $888 per month versus $515) but it triples the amount of interest for a 10 year. Assuming you can get a 25 year repayment approved.

3) I'm not an expert on the loan forgiveness but there are a lot of rules to comply with. Some loans you need to inform them before getting the loan that you will go for this. Overall unless you can apply for loan forgiveness (which is compensation for taking a lower paying job) having some interest written off doesn't really help you unless you can make payments on the principle of the loan. Again there are probably a lot of rules that I am not aware of but I recommend researching the options because they often sound better than what they are.

Getting a graduate degree that gives you more options is great but if you end up with a large loan and your first 10 years of working don't pay well this could be financially crippling. That said if you do get high pay within a few years then I'd say do it, it depends on how quickly you could get into UNESCO,etc and if it's a sure thing or not. Just investigate the potential jobs and pay rather than just listen to schools (they want your money and don't give a poo poo if there's no job for you).

If you are just going to focus on TESOL then I'd say go for less loan. All of my friends doing TESOL all have 3 or 4 year degrees with mostly unrelated majors.

Balqis
Sep 5, 2011

Devian666 posted:

1) Borrow more makes sense if you will definitely get high pay. Servicing an $80,000 10 year loan at 6% would take $888.16 per month which would be a lot of money if you are on much lower pay.

2) Your choice. A longer loan repayment term makes the monthly payments smaller (for $80k $888 per month versus $515) but it triples the amount of interest for a 10 year. Assuming you can get a 25 year repayment approved.

3) I'm not an expert on the loan forgiveness but there are a lot of rules to comply with. Some loans you need to inform them before getting the loan that you will go for this. Overall unless you can apply for loan forgiveness (which is compensation for taking a lower paying job) having some interest written off doesn't really help you unless you can make payments on the principle of the loan. Again there are probably a lot of rules that I am not aware of but I recommend researching the options because they often sound better than what they are.

Getting a graduate degree that gives you more options is great but if you end up with a large loan and your first 10 years of working don't pay well this could be financially crippling. That said if you do get high pay within a few years then I'd say do it, it depends on how quickly you could get into UNESCO,etc and if it's a sure thing or not. Just investigate the potential jobs and pay rather than just listen to schools (they want your money and don't give a poo poo if there's no job for you).

If you are just going to focus on TESOL then I'd say go for less loan. All of my friends doing TESOL all have 3 or 4 year degrees with mostly unrelated majors.

Thanks for the good advice. I look at TESOL as something I enjoy doing but would prefer to use as stepping stone to working and managing international educational programs. Its kind of why I wanted to pursue a masters rather than just get into a cheaper certification program - it might open more doors for me. Since honestly I cannot say with any sort of confidence that UNESCO and UNICEF would hire me right away, maybe it would be best just to be happy with that, use its location relative to DC to get decent experience, and apply for an international policy program further down the line as needed. Now I just have to get over my irrational dislike of that school and meh-ness about living at home.

E-Money
Nov 12, 2005


Got Out.
Can anybody break down some of the new Federal Repayment programs? I know REPAYE is going live in december but there have bee a lot of other modified pay as you earn repayment programs recently.

I have all federal loans, and am currently 5 years into IBR. Married, filing separately (thanks to IBR) and unfortunately not working for gov't or 501(c)3 so i'm on the 25 year forgiveness track. Is there anything in the new programs that would cap my payments at a lower percentage of AGI or discretionary spending?

myfedloan and other resources have been pretty useless to help me determine if another program would be helpful. If I was able to switch from IBR to another program, would my monthly payments toward IBR count for the 20 or 25 year forgiveness of the new program?

I tried to use the studentloans.gov calculator and it looks like Pay as you Earn might significantly decrease my payments but I am having trouble telling if i'm eligible or not.

EugeneJ
Feb 5, 2012

by FactsAreUseless
PAYE is absorbing everyone currently on IBR, but that doesn't start until 2016

E-Money
Nov 12, 2005


Got Out.

EugeneJ posted:

PAYE is absorbing everyone currently on IBR, but that doesn't start until 2016

Woah, so does that mean my payment will drop to a max of 10% of discretionary from 15% under IBR? What are the practical changes to my program?

I though i saw that PAYE was only for "new borrowers" and there was a cut off date that I wasn't entirely sure if I fit in or not. Must have mis-read something.

E-Money
Nov 12, 2005


Got Out.
Also that doesn't seem exactly accurate from some other things I saw. Looks like RPAYE imputes spousal income in a way that would really hurt a lot of folks (which is why my wife and I are going to file separately since we both have loan debt)

http://bostonstudentloanlawyer.com/who-should-switch-to-repaye/

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2015/08/21/repaye_this_proposed_change_to_the_student_loan_program_might_make_you_think.html

mastershakeman
Oct 28, 2008

by vyelkin
From everything I've read, if you're on IBR/PAYE you're going to stay on those and only switch to REPAYE if you're on IBR and not married/going to be married.

E-Money
Nov 12, 2005


Got Out.

mastershakeman posted:

From everything I've read, if you're on IBR/PAYE you're going to stay on those and only switch to REPAYE if you're on IBR and not married/going to be married.

That lines up with what I was seeing as well -same as it ever was. Thanks for confirming.

Balqis
Sep 5, 2011

Hello again, I'm from a few posts up. Continuing my research, I've learned about Public Service Loan Forgiveness, which would be perfect for me, since basically all my career options are public service oriented. From what I'm understanding, no matter what your debt level (which, again, I have a choice between two graduate schools that would cost 40,000 or 90,000) you'd basically be paying 10% of your income for 120 consecutive payments, on a repayment plan that would normally be 300, and the rest would be forgiven at the end. You wouldn't even need to pay taxes on the loans that get forgiven!

I'd like to believe that this would let me go to to the better, way more expensive school for my Masters of Education degree, but this seems to be too good to be true. There has to be a catch, right? Also, since its a program that I can't even start the paperwork for until after I finish my degree, and won't come into effect until at least 10 years after that, what are the chances the government will change something about it or cancel it in the mean time? Is this something I should worry about?

Moreover, should I go for it anyways?

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
I don't know the politics around student loans in the US but most of the crack downs seem to be about people who avoid making any payments on student loans. While I don't expect the public service loan forgiveness to disappear you never know for sure. However it is a method of compensating Government workers for not making large commercial incomes so it seems like a reasonable reward for them to retain.

When it comes to going to a more expensive school you need to be sure you will benefit from the extra cost. In saying that given the current conditions if I was in your position I would probably do it knowing that you could essentially pay the same money for either option, and gain a long term career at the same time. There's a risk but it seems worthwhile.

E-Money
Nov 12, 2005


Got Out.

Balqis posted:

Hello again, I'm from a few posts up. Continuing my research, I've learned about Public Service Loan Forgiveness, which would be perfect for me, since basically all my career options are public service oriented. From what I'm understanding, no matter what your debt level (which, again, I have a choice between two graduate schools that would cost 40,000 or 90,000) you'd basically be paying 10% of your income for 120 consecutive payments, on a repayment plan that would normally be 300, and the rest would be forgiven at the end. You wouldn't even need to pay taxes on the loans that get forgiven!

I'd like to believe that this would let me go to to the better, way more expensive school for my Masters of Education degree, but this seems to be too good to be true. There has to be a catch, right? Also, since its a program that I can't even start the paperwork for until after I finish my degree, and won't come into effect until at least 10 years after that, what are the chances the government will change something about it or cancel it in the mean time? Is this something I should worry about?

Moreover, should I go for it anyways?

PSLR is awesome. It has been settled that you won't have to pay taxes on the amount of the forgiven loans for PSLR - although it's still an open question for regular loan forgiveness.

It's also 10% of either your AGI or your discretionary income (I forget) so there is a strong incentive to make as many pre-tax expenditures as possible to keep those numbers down: contribute to your 401(k), your FSA, etc. You're not going to pay off your loan in 10 years so the goal is to pay as little as possible and put your money to work.

I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure they can't modify your master loan agreement unilaterally to remove PSLR out from under you. Usually policy changes happen further down the line so it would just gently caress over people a few years from now. There would also be massive outcry, as this is a pretty beloved program and lots of doctors and lawyers and people with clout use/used this.

That said, don't base any of your debt decisions on just a person from the internet.

Balqis
Sep 5, 2011

E-Money posted:

PSLR is awesome. It has been settled that you won't have to pay taxes on the amount of the forgiven loans for PSLR - although it's still an open question for regular loan forgiveness.

It's also 10% of either your AGI or your discretionary income (I forget) so there is a strong incentive to make as many pre-tax expenditures as possible to keep those numbers down: contribute to your 401(k), your FSA, etc. You're not going to pay off your loan in 10 years so the goal is to pay as little as possible and put your money to work.

I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure they can't modify your master loan agreement unilaterally to remove PSLR out from under you. Usually policy changes happen further down the line so it would just gently caress over people a few years from now. There would also be massive outcry, as this is a pretty beloved program and lots of doctors and lawyers and people with clout use/used this.

That said, don't base any of your debt decisions on just a person from the internet.

Cool. This does make me feel better about it. I've guess one thing I've read about is Obama's proposal to cap the amount forgiven to $57,500, but it seems that that's just in the talking stages. Meanwhile Republicans seem to want to get rid of all the recent student loans reforms altogether. But, like you said, a ton of lawyers seem to be ticked off about these rumblings so hopefully it is here to stay.

Speaking of not listening to voices on the internet, is there any particular person with some authority I can talk about this to? Financial aid officers from these prospective schools seem like the obvious choice, but they'd also be biased.

zfleeman
Mar 12, 2014

I wonder how you spell Tabasco.
I think I already know the answer to this, so bear with me.

My company reimburses tuition up to $7500 a year, but the amount after $5250 is taxed. My program will cost me ~$22000 by the end of 2017, so I'm going into this understanding that I will owe a portion up to (I think) of ~$10000 out of pocket. My wife and I can probably make that work, but it would kind of kill any sort of savings plan we have right now.

Should I look into student loans if I know I could pay them off in under two years after I have my degree? The responsible part of my brain says I should just bite the bullet and take care of the costs as they come, but ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

extravadanza
Oct 19, 2007

E-Money posted:

PSLR is awesome. It has been settled that you won't have to pay taxes on the amount of the forgiven loans for PSLR - although it's still an open question for regular loan forgiveness.

It's also 10% of either your AGI or your discretionary income (I forget) so there is a strong incentive to make as many pre-tax expenditures as possible to keep those numbers down: contribute to your 401(k), your FSA, etc. You're not going to pay off your loan in 10 years so the goal is to pay as little as possible and put your money to work.

I'm not an expert but I'm pretty sure they can't modify your master loan agreement unilaterally to remove PSLR out from under you. Usually policy changes happen further down the line so it would just gently caress over people a few years from now. There would also be massive outcry, as this is a pretty beloved program and lots of doctors and lawyers and people with clout use/used this.

That said, don't base any of your debt decisions on just a person from the internet.

My wife is on track doing PAYE/IBR with a PSLR in 9 years and will be contributing a large amount of her income to her 401k. My health insurance is much better than hers, so I'm not sure she can have a FSA while also opting out of her gov't offered health insurance. What other ways are there to reduce income but still have a positive impact on our financial future?

extravadanza fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Nov 19, 2015

E-Money
Nov 12, 2005


Got Out.

extravadanza posted:

My wife is on track doing PAYE/IBR with a PSLR in 9 years and will be contributing a large amount of her income to her 401k. My health insurance is much better than hers, so I'm not sure she can have a FSA while also opting out of her gov't offered health insurance. What other ways are there to reduce income but still have a positive impact on our financial future?

You can still contribute to your FSA if you are on somebody else's health insurance. My wife has the better insurance of the two of us so when we got married I waived my own health care and got added to hers, but I kept my FSA through my work. Getting married is a change in status, but other than birth of a child or another change, you'd have to wait until open enrollment to change your FSA elections, which may be happening right now or soon, depending on the employer.

Anything that is pre-tax is your friend. My loan payments went down after upping my contribution rate for my 401K so make sure you're maxing that poo poo out, otherwise you're just increasing your monthly loan payments anyways. I believe traditional IRA's (not Roth) also allow you to contribute pre-tax money to lower your AGI as well. I don't know if it's worth picking a trad IRA over a Roth for this reason, and I'm sure there are other factors to consider. If your employer offers any kind of pre-tax transit programs (for a metro card or whatever) you should take advantage of that as well.

With loan forgiveness it feels like the goal isn't "pay your loan off," it's "do what you can to keep your payments as low as possible until forgiveness kicks in." It helps that the stuff that lowers your loan payments is stuff that you should be doing anyways.

RogueLemming
Sep 11, 2006

Spinning or Deformed?

E-Money posted:

With loan forgiveness it feels like the goal isn't "pay your loan off," it's "do what you can to keep your payments as low as possible until forgiveness kicks in."

...and this is exactly why people want the program ended.

It's supposed to be a helping hand to people that are doing work that benefits society but don't necessarily get a lot of financial compensation. It's not supposed to be a rationale to take out larger loans with the plan of "what the hell, I'm not paying this back anyway".

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe

RogueLemming posted:

...and this is exactly why people want the program ended.

It's supposed to be a helping hand to people that are doing work that benefits society but don't necessarily get a lot of financial compensation. It's not supposed to be a rationale to take out larger loans with the plan of "what the hell, I'm not paying this back anyway".

It's a piece of the big picture problem with student loans. The real issue is that educational institutions are charging way too much to the point where student loans are so large that most people can't pay them back. Of course they can charge too much because the Government (and some other lenders) will lend large sums. If the Government capped the annual loan or set the interest rate to 0% then the need for writing it off could easily go away, along with the institutions that are milking the system for profit.

RogueLemming
Sep 11, 2006

Spinning or Deformed?

Devian666 posted:

It's a piece of the big picture problem with student loans. The real issue is that educational institutions are charging way too much to the point where student loans are so large that most people can't pay them back. Of course they can charge too much because the Government (and some other lenders) will lend large sums. If the Government capped the annual loan or set the interest rate to 0% then the need for writing it off could easily go away, along with the institutions that are milking the system for profit.

Oh, I completely agree. The system sucks and is totally skewed in favor of the schools and lenders. And I don't want to get all soap boxy or wade into morality, but I think it can still be said that no matter how unfair anyone perceives the system to be, it's just not a good idea to take out any sort of loan based on the idea of not having to pay it back.

In my opinion, IBR/PAYE/PSLR has arguably been bad for people taking student loans. Because these programs exist, people take on way more debt than they maybe would otherwise. Then when they graduate, they have no other option than to completely rely on these programs and hope it works out and that they don't become politically unpopular. And while--yes--they may get some loans forgiven, it also means they are living with low incomes and a mountain of debt for 10-20 years. The government wants to say that these programs are made to lessen the burden on students, but how is 20 years of stunted financial growth a good thing for them?

It's kind of funny, there are also government programs to help with the purchase of a primary residence, but BFC treats them completely differently.
BFC on Homes: "WHAT?! You don't have a 20% down payment and a full 6 month emergency fund?! You can't afford that poo poo!"
BFC on Student Loans: "Nah, it's cool...just take out the loans and wait it out until they go away."

[edit: Just to be clear, I'm not trying to knock anyone here. I'm just pointing out that with non-student loan debt, people seem to have much higher standards for whether the debt is "worth it" versus the negative effects it could have on someone's life. But for some reason, student loans that can be far more financially crippling seem to get a free pass. Thus, people who are genuinely trying to help someone can in one case tell them not to take on debt, and in the other case tell them to take it, even if both cases can be equally devastating.]

RogueLemming fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Nov 22, 2015

Devian666
Aug 20, 2008

Take some advice Chris.

Fun Shoe
Oh of course there's seemingly two different attitudes (well more than that) to the types of loans. You will see that difference in my posting as well.

I was fortunate that while student loans were a new thing when I studied in New Zealand and the costs were relatively low. The Government also charged interest on loans at that time. I was a part of the ideal I spent little, lived poor and didn't take out the full available amount except my last year of study. Then I went on to work at a career job with rapidly increasing pay so repaid the debt in 7 years. In saying that I saw a lot of students borrow and blow the money because they were 18 and had no idea what they were doing. Many people ended up with high debt with low pay and where they would end up on IBR until they died. Changes were made in New Zealand. Yet even with 0% interest there's still a lot of money to repay. Most view their education as just another tax.

Taking on the debt even if it will all be written off is a risk. If the Government changes the rules you could be stuck with unsustainable debt. It's a shame that bankruptcy doesn't write off student debt, it seems that the number of student loan defaults is being blamed on the students and not the flaws in the system. You know neoliberalism is perfect and so is the market economy.

When it comes to student loans the degree that the person gets is a career, or they might end up selling fast food. Taking the loan is a risk, taking a big loan is a risk but people may need to take that risk to get the benefits. The other sensible option is to not get a college degree but instead do a one or two year course that will get you into a job. The risk from the size of the loan is lower.

The advice depends on circumstance. The same as retirement savings or house purchasing. Retirement recommendation is 15% of gross income into retirement savings, unless you calculate what you will need to sustain lifestyle on retirement. The same with 20% deposit (the amount saves a lot of money and getting shafted), but if you had a repayment plan and allowance for house repairs this amount could be lower. Some posters seriously can't afford to buy a house and part of the feedback is to break the thinking that you can't lose on housing as an investment, when it's just another investment and you should be diversified.

Is it an issue? Yes. Will you get different answers? Yes.

I also recommend some approaches that others don't. Like if you can't afford a degree or don't want to borrow all that money then I point to University of People http://uopeople.edu/ which is a very low cost way of getting a business administration or computer science degree. Sure it doesn't have the reputation of a $20-$30k per year institution but you would have little or no debt by the time you finish. People could study courses at EDX.org you won't end up with a degree but it would be a good way to demonstrate willingness to learn and the certificates are only $50 each. It's difficult enough communicating this to students that have been told they need a degree.

Equally bad was when someone was trying to get my company to hire students. The students had commerce or law degrees which are of no interest to us when we expect everyone to have an engineering degree or similar. There are a lot of degrees that are worthless or in low demand, but students don't have access to that information because it is concealed from them. Nothing like borrowing $120k for a degree no one wants.

tl;dr If you get a student loan you risk having to pay it all back with interest, and you may not end up with the income you need to pay the interest only portion. This will gently caress your financial future.

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Balqis
Sep 5, 2011

I mean, all of these "while students ought to do this" are interesting and certainly concerns of mine (gently caress, my grandfather told me NO debt was good). I'd love to make morally correct and fiscally wise decisions. But I still face a quandary - taking advantage of the government on the Public Service Loan Forgiveness would let me go to the school that feels best for me. I'd even say its good risk for high reward.

But yeah, the prospect of it being cancelled while I struggle through the early years of being an ESOL teacher is scary. I'm not particularly worried about finding a job - they're in pretty high demand in my state - but my income will never be very huge, at least not enough to justify a $100,000 loans of a classical 10 year model. My income probably wouldn't even let me get past the interest until I break into the Foreign Service or something, and who knows how long that will take (though currently the plans is 5 years in or so). Could someone give me the idea of the consequences of a worst case scenario? (Cancelled 10 years down the line, IBR payments made on interest only, have to pay for another 15). I'm not very good at visualizing these things as someone new to personal finance.

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