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The tank gear out of the new dungeons is basically Bloodborne dress-up and this is alright
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Nov 12, 2015 19:36
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I enjoy Diadem because it affords me the opportunity to punch dinosaurs in the face, catch pterodactyls with a fishing pole, and flee from meteor showers called down by angry sauropods. I haven't gotten any good Mistbreak gear yet but maybe I will at some point. Or maybe I won't. Oh well.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:36
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Truga posted:I didn't know he said that. That sounds like a bad idea to me. There've been rumors recently that they'll just drop the normal/savage split and make the next raid tier something like FCoB difficulty.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:39
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Virulence posted:There've been rumors recently that they'll just drop the normal/savage split and make the next raid tier something like FCoB difficulty. The way it sounded when it was described to me, the devs are just thinking about making the "Hard" mode easier so that the completion rates for the next set of Savage breaches the realm of integers.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:45
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this thread makes me want to vomit
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Nov 12, 2015 19:46
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I would be surprised if they dropped it but overall it's still in question about what's going to happen and it seems like they haven't fully decided yet either, waiting to see if the 3.1 changes help a lot more people break through the difficulty gap. That said, you can't make loot choices on what my or may not happen. Right now Diadem is BiS gear for every slot except weapon (and possibly acc for healers/tanks) so if your goal is to be as prepared as possible for 3.2 you're currently hosed.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:47
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Do the new experts drop a 185 ring?
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Nov 12, 2015 19:49
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yes. i saw a healer one yesterday.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:51
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Perhaps the various world-first contenders could enter a shared gentlecatgirl's agreement that they won't bend over backwards farming Diadem past the point where their members actually enjoy the process (as opposed to feeling like it's a drudging and possibly futile obligation). That would at least take away the "but someone else might do it, so I have to do it to remain competitive!" aspect and would reduce the motivation to "am I willing to put in all this work to be as prepared as possible, or am I willing to compromise slightly in the name of sanity and accept the almost-as-good goal of as prepared as reasonable". Obviously that's a pipe dream and they'll all farm the poo poo out of it anyway, but it's a nice thing to think about how things might work in a better world.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:52
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I have never been nor will ever be a world first contender and it still affects me. See Fister's post.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:53
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And in your case then, it really is just about your motivations and whether or not that compromise is acceptable to you. In your case, that seems not to be, and that's fine. Only you (or perhaps your team as a whole) can decide your own priorities and when (if ever) to put your foot down and say that the un-fun of the endless grind trumps the fun of being optimized. But at least there's not the external fear factor of your competitors getting an edge on you and beating you to world first from that edge.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:55
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How much did they buff the dungeon XP for HW leveling dungeons by?
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Nov 12, 2015 19:56
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nuru posted:Do the new experts drop a 185 ring? Yes they do, here's the Tank one I'm with fister roboto and Belzac honestly, knowing that there's more you can do to help facilitate your team and not being able to do it kind of sits of my mind quite often. With raid lockouts you could just brush it off with, "well the lockout didn't let me see the gear I wanted" so even if you didn't get all your gear you at least knew you were trying your hardest. With diadem it just sits there and looms over you since you could have gotten better loot if you'd farmed way more, or who knows maybe the next piece of loot was one was one that would have helped/been better. It's a dumb sentiment and I'm aware, but when the raids are designed around 8 people pulling their weight you want to try and make your team as successful as possible you start to get dumb ideas and thoughts like this. And just because you wipe at 1% or don't have that gear doesn't make it your fault or even necessarily your team's, but it doesn't stop you from wondering what if. Samba De Amigo fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 12, 2015 19:56
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Even being the world's biggest casual, I can see the issue that is happening here. I can't believe I'm agreeing with some of the worst shitposters in this thread, but there it is. This is a pretty good example of "be careful what you wish for." All those dingbats wanting old school FFXI NMs and HNMs, here you go! Except we also added in all the bad stuff too, with an extra dose of RNG so you too can feel the same panic that I did in 2004 when I had to miss Dynamis and possibly miss out on that perfect item that would have really helped my team! The idea of escalation, that if one progression group goes all in, the others can feel obligated to, has been brought up. Others say that it would be an "unreasonable time committment" to deck out a team. I think you have a terrible misconception of what might be considered unreasonable for a top tier group, and of the possible pressure put on a group if one raid team is super lucky in Diadem. Does it make any sense whatsoever in a pretty casual MMO to do this? I don't think so, but I haven't raided seriously in a very long time. It's not my thing. BUT It suprises me that Yoshi wouldn't have seen the outcome of this on the high end of things, since he seems pretty aware of how raiding culture works. Forcing an arms race doesn't seem to go along with his usual philosophy. And I know some of you are going to say "who cares about the top 1%, they aren't relevant etc." but if the devs didn't actually want a competitive raiding culture savage wouldn't exist. Raiders play too and Yoshi's done a somewhat decent job providing content for everyone. This just seems to be a bit of a miscalculation.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:56
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Hopefully 3.2 includes fights accidentally tuned for zero latency like release T5, that way even super stat pink 210s won't make a difference.
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Nov 12, 2015 19:57
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They did say they won't do mad dps checks any more because people pass them anyway by playing better and having their healers/tanks dps more. I haven't done the new knights of the round trial yet, but people are saying there's not much dps check in there, just a whole load of mechanics to execute?
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Nov 12, 2015 20:03
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Fister Roboto posted:You're being a complete rear end in a top hat. Please stop posting. Realtalk here: Like, I'm really not trying to be a dick but that sort of gaming anxiety seems really lovely and unfun. Feeling bad because you "have" to change classes doesn't sound enjoyable. It's just my opinion that if something like Diadem (or any element of the game) is going to give you this much anxiety, then maybe your relationship with the game is unhealthy? After doing almost five years of hardcore progression raiding in WoW where I was raiding up to 20 hours a week and often spending another 20 hours prepping for raids, I vowed never do that poo poo again. I play to relax, to chat and bullshit with people, and to play pretty princess dress up. I've never said I don't get your frustrations or anxieties, but it feels like more of a personal problem than a game problem.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:03
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Truga posted:They did say they won't do mad dps checks any more because people pass them anyway by playing better and having their healers/tanks dps more. I haven't done the new knights of the round trial yet, but people are saying there's not much dps check in there, just a whole load of mechanics to execute? Yea the fight is pretty lenient on DPS it feels like, but the mechanics are relatively unforgiving if you mess them up.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:05
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Feeling bad because you don't have the best possible RNG'd gear seems pretty dumb, since no way is anything going to be balanced to that level of gear.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:06
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Some people play the game the way they like it? They got hosed. I think Diadem is good for the game overall but if I thought about the game the same way they evidently do I'd be loving pissed too.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:10
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Truga posted:They did say they won't do mad dps checks any more because people pass them anyway by playing better and having their healers/tanks dps more. I haven't done the new knights of the round trial yet, but people are saying there's not much dps check in there, just a whole load of mechanics to execute? Yeah. My group hasn't beaten it yet but the DPS requirements seem fairly lenient (we're one of many slowing chipping away at the AS3 wall). Like, there's a minor burn phase near the start that we don't even use cooldowns on, and out of 9 phases (depending on how you count) groups have killed him in the middle of 7.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:11
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If that's the tank ring why does it have Vitality 
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Nov 12, 2015 20:14
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nuru posted:FWIW these were incredibly easy to get with the catch-up gear they put out in subsequent 2.x patches, so there should be a lot of people who can craft the Zeta items for you. 
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Nov 12, 2015 20:14
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TheRagamuffin posted:Feeling bad because you don't have the best possible RNG'd gear seems pretty dumb, since no way is anything going to be balanced to that level of gear. then came diadem with its purely random rolling, making that timeframe unimaginably fuzzy and most likely unreachable through any kind of healthy time spent on the game.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:14
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I think Diadem is supposed to be something you farm for materia and the occasional nice i210 drop and was never intended as a way to get BiS. Of course dev intent and what actually happens are often two completely separate things, and there's a point to be made that Diadem is psychologically wrecking people in an unhealthy way that should be considered, but I can guarantee everyone that if you take a deep breath, enjoy the grind, and consider any BiS 210 you get from it a sweet bonus instead of the nectar of life itself, you'll have a good time and do just fine when the new raid tier drops in 3.2 and have a nice cache of sky pirate coins to meld your a5+ drops with.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:15
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TheRagamuffin posted:Feeling bad because you don't have the best possible RNG'd gear seems pretty dumb, since no way is anything going to be balanced to that level of gear. Of course it's dumb. Nobody is disputing that. It's just how it is, unfortunately.  Those of you who have escaped the terrible chains of progression raiding are probably very familiar with the anxiety about missing a raid night when you're top on the DKP list, or getting mad because someone showed up to your raid that's higher on the priority list than you on an item that is super-rare and it drops.I know Dynamis is a dumb comparison because everything in there was situational mostly, but I spent a year and a half trying to get the stupid WHM condom hat AF2 drop. It just would literally not drop every time we went. Then one night someone shows up who's somehow higher on the priority list than me for that dumb loving hat, and it drops. I almost quit the loving game because of that, just one stupid non-BIS ugly hat because it's just how that anxiety works. And it took me another half a year to actually get the drop after that too! It's completely unhealthy and completely unreasonable, but it's a real thing and it's even worse when that item you missed out on is one that actually is BIS and you feel like you're letting down your team because you had to do something else. I can't even imagine how much worse that anxiety can get when you're going for world first. It's the main reason I got out a while back when i was raiding in the #1 guild on my WoW server. My blood pressure and mental state was way more important than pixel dragons. It's why I'm suprised Yoshi wouldn't know how this type of thing would affect the groups that are most "dedicated." I'm not saying raiding like that is a good thing at all, but it's how it is and given Yoshi's focus on being casual friendly it seems strange.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:15
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nuru posted:If that's the tank ring why does it have Vitality Because SE thinks you need VIT real bad. Here's the STR ring
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Nov 12, 2015 20:16
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Hahahahahha just play the game for fun you doofuses
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Nov 12, 2015 20:18
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Fun is a buzzword.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:20
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"I PLAY FOR FUN" i scream, as i show up drunk in fc chat every night and wipe all my groups while going on about how chill i am and how much those fuken progression raiders suck.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:22
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megalodong posted:"I PLAY FOR FUN" i scream, as i show up drunk in fc chat every night and wipe all my groups while going on about how chill i am and how much those fuken progression raiders suck. This is kind of a meta-argument, but it's amazing what some people who "play for fun" consider acceptable behavior- there was a guy a couple of pages ago who queued into Diadem as a tank to go fishing when his group zoned in. gently caress that nonsense, i'd rather be stuck hellgrinding than have my casual groups plagued by that.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:28
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It'd be nice if you could queue up for a gatherer or combat group in the duty finder, because what happens right now, while really funny, I can see being kind of annoying too. That being said, I gathered the hell out of the diadem on day 1.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:30
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Niton posted:there was a guy a couple of pages ago who queued into Diadem as a tank to go fishing when his group zoned in. How is that a problem? If I want to go fish in diadem, I'm going to solo queue as healer and then gently caress off to go fishing. What should I do?
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Nov 12, 2015 20:31
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Mordiceius posted:How is that a problem? If I want to go fish in diadem, I'm going to solo queue as healer and then gently caress off to go fishing. What should I do? a dps so you're not potentially loving your group out of a key element of doing combat in diadem "oh just make someone else go healer/tank" isn't really an option but you're mentally handicapped so im sure you're going to argue it anyway
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Nov 12, 2015 20:33
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Niton posted:This is kind of a meta-argument, but it's amazing what some people who "play for fun" consider acceptable behavior- there was a guy a couple of pages ago who queued into Diadem as a tank to go fishing when his group zoned in. What would be the fun in joining or organizing a party specifically to go gathering when you can gently caress over 7 other people and post about it like a smug piece of poo poo? The only thing worse than being polite to people is to actually have a group of people with the same goals so you can do your thing more efficiently, such as actually kill monsters guarding gathering and fishing spots. What would be the fun in that?
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Nov 12, 2015 20:33
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Mordiceius posted:How is that a problem? If I want to go fish in diadem, I'm going to solo queue as healer and then gently caress off to go fishing. What should I do? Use the much-neglected "Party Finder" system to make a gathering group, or ask one of your p.chill p. sweet totally chill friends who plays and has fun the right way to group up with you.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:33
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There's no good answer there because they didn't have the foresight to have gathering queues and lock gatherers to gathering classes in the zone. That would also suck, but I'm spitballing here. They created a big zone for people to explore and hunt/gather in, but pretty much left out a way to just gather. They're rare, but the game still has people who literally just gather/craft. Queuing as a DPS is probably the best case because you can live with less dps, but missing tanks/healers probably does more damage.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:34
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Fun is certainly subjective and can range from the extreme of the hardcore raider's "I find it fun to gear and play to the best of my potential" to the incompetent and/or trolling "I find it fun to roll into an instance with a bunch of strangers and give zero shits about if I can even perform the basics of my role". On the subject of Diadem and gathering, my advice is that just like you shouldn't expect a speedrun dungeon if you solo queue in DF (though they're always a nice surprise when they happen), you shouldn't expect a Diadem group to remain combat-focused if you solo queue for it. Now if you join a party finder group that's explicitly about fighting in Diadem, that's different. If you join a FC/LS premade that's explicitly about fighting in Diadem, that's different. But if you solo queue? Go right ahead and start fishing if you want to. And be chill with anyone else who decides to go mining even if you want to fight. While most people will want to fight, some people will want to fish, and that's fine. It'd be nice if they weren't a tank/healer but honestly at least one of the DPS likely has the option to get off their high horse of "BUT MAH HEAVY DEEPS" and switch to another role. If it's a batch of strangers who didn't agree beforehand on what they were doing, you owe them nothing (other than doing something to help knock out the three trivial objectives) and they owe you nothing. If there was an agreement beforehand (strangers or otherwise), well that's different. Vil fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Nov 12, 2015 |
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Nov 12, 2015 20:35
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Doublestep posted:a dps so you're not potentially loving your group out of a key element of doing combat in diadem AST is the only class I have at 60. So yeah, I'm going to queue as AST. Not going to level and gear a DPS just so I can not slightly inconvenience pubbies. megalodong posted:Use the much-neglected "Party Finder" system to make a gathering group, or ask one of your p.chill p. sweet totally chill friends who plays and has fun the right way to group up with you. I fish in diadem. I don't need to be with others to gather. In fact, I prefer my gathering to be a solo activity where I don't have to interact with others.
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Nov 12, 2015 20:36
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Mordiceius posted:AST is the only class I have at 60. So yeah, I'm going to queue as AST. Not going to level and gear a DPS just so I can not slightly inconvenience pubbies. yeah ok thats fine, but you're still being a massive rear end in a top hat to everyone in your party. it isnt a slight inconvenience, some of the NMs do require two healers, especially poo poo like wisent
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Nov 12, 2015 20:38
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