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the airport not expanding doesnt change any of what you just said
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Nov 13, 2015 17:20
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lol at anyone trying to say that our hilariously expensive rail link from downtown to pearson is good, ESPECIALLY compared to the euros or Asians. I actually cannot name a major city outside of Canada that has worse connectivity from major airports to city centers. Tokyo makes Toronto look like a gongshow. Toronto is 20-30 years behind Seoul/Beijing. Even the Paris system, reeking like piss as it does, is better. Luxury Yacht, I hear you on the manufacturing thing. I happen be retardedly lucky to have gotten in with a company that not only treats their employees well, but has worldwide recognition as being a leader in their field, and is actively bringing work back into North America from Europe and Asia. It can really be a wasteland, especially in automotive. Medical is picking up quite nicely though.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:23
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There's some real miscasting of opposition to the expansion of Billy Bishop here. Experts from city hall were opposed, for health and traffic congestion reasons. Other levels of government were hesitant to re-open the tri-partite agreement on the waterfront because that was a can of worms nobody wanted to deal with, especially when there is already a working agreement. The runways would have to be expanded and ruin parkland and beaches that are enjoyed by all Torontonians( and we've already spent a great deal of time and public money revitalizing these lands). And finally, expansion would really only benefit one carrier, Porter airlines, which is privately controlled and owned largely by the Deluce family. IT wasn't just NIMBYism and property values, there were good arguments against it. The best one being we already have a large international airport on the edge of Toronto.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:23
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Kraftwerk posted:I'm an ex Bombardier employee so take it from me when I tell you that they're one of the most incompetent and inefficient companies on Earth. That still doesn't change the fact that they pay very well and build a high value advanced product right here in Toronto. The average Bombardier employee make around 50k to 80k per year, gets an amazing benefits plan and has a pension fund that matches your contributions 1:1 up to 8% of your wage. Why not cut your losses? Is there any indication in your field that manufacturing could improve here or even slow its decline? There's something I don't understand about Bombardier. They have a market cap of $3.06B. They're getting $1B from Quebec and want another $1B from the feds. That's not a little handout, they're asking for 66% of the worth of the company as a bailout, no stock or any equity for the governments? Seems crazy.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:23
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PT6A posted:And that's supposed to be impressive? You realize they are re-using existing rail lines on a corridor that is not dedicated to the UPE right? Short of expropriation there will not be dedicated lines through Toronto.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:25
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Yeah it's because they've literally invested the future of their company into the C-Series and are now realizing "um I guess everyone wants boeing/airbus WHOOPS" because of the literally decades of maintenance experience and the existing logistics train of spares and experienced pilots on 7XX platforms as opposed to starting from scratch with a notoriously iffy company on the QA side.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:26
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RBC posted:the airport not expanding doesnt change any of what you just said Well I mean except the part about not being able to fly to even further places without it. Also don't even get me started on the dumbassness of the UP express. I was in loving Cleveland a couple years ago, and you could take their regular light rail system from the airport to downtown core, which I think is roughly the same distance as Pearson is from Toronto, for $2.25. And they're broke as all gently caress. At $28 per person it's often cheaper to rent a fancy town car to get you there if there's two or more than you. That is hella dumb.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:26
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Good companies that do well by their employees don't need handouts. I don't care how well Bombardier treats their employees. We could take that money and give it directly to them if that was what concerned us. We don't need to filter it through a terribly run company first.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:28
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I don;t support the expansion cause with the closing of Buttonville, Billy Bishop is one of the few GA airports in Toronto, and if it expanded for Jets, I am willing to bet money the GA slots would be gone. Also, you know, downtown Torontians hate it.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:29
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bunnyofdoom posted:Also, you know, downtown Torontians hate it. We hate literally everything that isn't Mandarin.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:33
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Then there is Vancouver where to leave the airport by rail is $5 plus the regular transit fare--so downtown would be $8 in the end.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:33
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:We hate literally everything that isn't Mandarin. Oh god. I do not know why pilots loving love that place. I really don;t.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:35
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P.d0t posted:My anecdotal example is from when I worked in loss prevention, and our agency arrested the same rear end in a top hat(s) over 100 times because they "only" stole a ~$500 cartful of steak/replacement razorblades/AA batteries, which -> theft under $5000 -> judge goes "this poo poo is not worth my time, ~community measures~" for someone who has clearly decided that stealing is their career.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:36
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OSI bean dip posted:Then there is Vancouver where to leave the airport by rail is $5 plus the regular transit fare--so downtown would be $8 in the end. Having an additional fare supplement to go to the airport is pretty normal. It's generally less than $10, though! Why can't there be a decent high-speed link to Pearson? All those cities with high-speed links or metro links to their respective airports were established when those links were built, just the same as Toronto.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:37
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jm20 posted:What is enough I am not sure myself, however removing all these opportunities to leave prison early would be a good start. This is what is also frustrating, seeing sentences handed out and having the perpetrators get off at 1/3 the sentence for good behaviour. Once again, I am only talking about crimes that are resultant in the death of another person. I'm phone posting here so forgive me if this is a tad brief. I think in the situation you've outlined I would ask, why do you think they get released early? I'm generally inclined to think that if someone reforms and demonstrates they are rehabilitated then they really don't need to be imprisoned for their full term. I'm not sure what purpose making them do the full time serves at that point. Your examples all seem to lack specific context about the crime and the ruling of a judge. My understanding of law is that context is one of the most important factors in determining severity of sentencing. The other thing I've noticed is that you still haven't actually articulated why you think sentences are too short, and what you'd prefer them to be (and why). In asking these questions I'm trying to understand why you think the way you do. What leads you to believe that harsher punishments lead to better outcomes? I've asked many questions here so I understand if you can't answer them all at once. I'm not criticising your views here but I am having difficulties understanding what your basis of comparison is.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:39
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I had a layover in Pearson once and it smelled like a swamp, this was in February. Based solely on this experience I question why the gently caress you would need to open a second airport in the same area.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:41
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PT6A posted:Having an additional fare supplement to go to the airport is pretty normal. It's generally less than $10, though! Auckland was $16 from downtown to the airport on a city bus. We have it good here.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:44
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PT6A posted:Having an additional fare supplement to go to the airport is pretty normal. It's generally less than $10, though! Because CN Rail are a bunch of fuckos. I really really really wish the Feds would nut up WRT CN Rail screwing up all hopes for effective commuter train service, and just appropriate the lines. Federal funds went into building them, after all. Yes I know that would be "bad" with regards to rail transport but loving deal with it.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:45
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Everyone in Canada gets released early barring them serving real serious charges. This makes sense. You don't want people just released without some conditions attached. Longer sentences don't necessarily lead to better outcomes, but I think there is a punitive component to our justice system that the left too often ignores. In particular I have a lot of trouble with some sentence lengths (violent crimes, especially sexual, seem too short to me when compared to other crimes), but you would require a pretty comprehensive overhaul of our system of justice to really address that.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:46
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What people often forget when advocating for longer sentences is that these convicts get out some day and we need them to be ready to re-integrate. That's why we put so many of them in group homes for 1/3 to 2/3rds of their sentences. Also anyone who argues that repeat violent offenders need to be locked up longer and possibly forever, we already do that. It's called long-term dangerous offender status.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:50
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MA-Horus posted:lol at anyone trying to say that our hilariously expensive rail link from downtown to pearson is good, ESPECIALLY compared to the euros or Asians. Both Houston airports, MCO, LGA, CLT, DTW. A lot of this has to do with the fact that most North American voters go insane if you propose anything that will make it more even slightly difficult for them to drive anywhere they want at any time and pay even half of what it should cost in time and money.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:00
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A car from Dulles to the centre of DC cost a hundred bucks; the same trip on the bus & subway set me back a whole thirteen dollars and took about the same length of time. Even the 97 from YOW is a viable option for out-of-towners for god's sake. Speaking of people who won't ever get out of jail, Bernardo wrote a book and people are all sourfaced because Amazon is selling it. If it doesn't relate to his crimes, why shouldn't he be allowed to write and sell a book? He's in Canada, he's part of "everyone", he has the right to speak, and to own and sell property. flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 18:01
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Why is incarceration a good choice for punitive measures? If we want to punish someone then flogging or some other form of physical punishment, or even forced labor, would seem to work as well. The modern penitentiary system came into being as a result of people moving away from punitive measures towards attempts at rehabilitation and moral reform. Length of prison sentence doesn't seem to have any effect on deterrence, and tough on crime initiatives have been failures everywhere they have been tried. The longer someone is in the prison the harder it is for them to readapt to normal society. So if punishment and a sense of retribution is what we're after, maybe the modern prison system is a bad and expensive tool for that. Why don't we just figure out other punishments that don't involve paying over 100 grand per prisoner, yearly, to maintain?
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Nov 13, 2015 18:06
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we should kill everyone who does any crime until the entire human race is dead
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Nov 13, 2015 18:09
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Ikantski posted:Why not cut your losses? Is there any indication in your field that manufacturing could improve here or even slow its decline? It's not my call. Decisions like that are above my pay grade. I just have a feeling I'll be holding the bag when I have to explain to our senior management why I'm not growing out sales in Canada. I can't squeeze blood from a stone. The volumes and market just isn't there.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:10
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Sedge and Bee posted:Why is incarceration a good choice for punitive measures? If we want to punish someone then flogging or some other form of physical punishment, or even forced labor, would seem to work as well. > go south You are facing a stone wall, much too high to climb. "SECTION 12" is written on it in letters ten feet high. It extends for as far as you can see to the east and west; there is a footpath to a wooden glade to the north. > 
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Nov 13, 2015 18:10
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Well I mean except the part about not being able to fly to even further places without it. it's 19 dollars with presto but w/e. Not going to argue in earnest with Mr. Luxury Yacht about the convenience of flying
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Nov 13, 2015 18:10
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RBC posted:it's 19 dollars with presto but w/e. Not going to argue in earnest with Mr. Luxury Yacht about the convenience of flying Is that a thing that most visitors have? I don't know what the gently caress that even is.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:13
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Presto's the name of the mass transit card in Toronto and Ottawa (even though the cards aren't mutually compatible because of course they aren't). It's the generic "major city mass transit system uses reloadable card" scheme that you see basically everywhere.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:16
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:What people often forget when advocating for longer sentences is that these convicts get out some day and we need them to be ready to re-integrate. That's why we put so many of them in group homes for 1/3 to 2/3rds of their sentences. You say we cover this scenario, but extremely rarely are repeat drunk driving offenses given a dangerous offender status. Vasler posted:I'm phone posting here so forgive me if this is a tad brief. I think in the situation you've outlined I would ask, why do you think they get released early? Being released early is both a cost savings and an attempt to rehabilitate people. With respect to the judges rulings I am arguing that the current laws are flawed and give too much lenience to the perpetrators and their continued rights being as they are still alive. Longer sentences would serve as a deterrent and to uphold the respect for life. You can see it in this thread, or if you ask friends and family there is a widespread conception that for instance drinking and driving or vehicular manslaughter are slaps on the wrist. Are they regrettable accidents? In most cases yes, but there is nearly no deterrent against such acts. For example, a person could honestly run down a cyclist on a rural road who is alone and even if the person was convicted there is such a high bar to prove that it wasn't anything but an accident (barring video evidence or witnesses) and so you could be free in a couple years (I do not recommend cycling on rural roads for the record). Under our current system, regardless of the actual drivers intent if it was found to be a regrettable accident, we consider it justice served at say 5 years sentence, and perhaps 3 years actually served in prison. Again we are talking about the reality of trading peoples lives for actual sentences served of 3 years here, which is where I draw a blank as to how it is possible to justify that sentence. I find the opposite opinion that justifies such short sentences for essentially a form of murder hard to accept. tl;dr implement this for drunk drivers 
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Nov 13, 2015 18:19
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flakeloaf posted:Presto's the name of the mass transit card in Toronto and Ottawa (even though the cards aren't mutually compatible because of course they aren't). It's the generic "major city mass transit system uses reloadable card" scheme that you see basically everywhere. How much do they cost to obtain, and can you load individual fares on them or only monthly passes? Basically: is it an option for tourists, or is it targeted solely towards residents of Toronto?
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Nov 13, 2015 18:21
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PT6A posted:Having an additional fare supplement to go to the airport is pretty normal. It's generally less than $10, though! Oh. Don't get me wrong: $8 is pretty good for what is really a metro system and depending on the time of day that is really all you're going to pay to get around most of Metro Vancouver--at worst it would be $11. I was just pointing out that Toronto's rail link is painfully expensive for what it provides.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:24
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PT6A posted:How much do they cost to obtain, and can you load individual fares on them or only monthly passes? Basically: is it an option for tourists, or is it targeted solely towards residents of Toronto? I think they're something like $6, you can load money on them (they aren't refundable), and if you're in town for more than a few days they're definitely cheaper. The Ottawa ones save you about $1 a fare, which means a family of four making a round-trip would pay for the card on day one.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:25
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OSI bean dip posted:Oh. Don't get me wrong: $8 is pretty good for what is really a metro system and depending on the time of day that is really all you're going to pay to get around most of Metro Vancouver--at worst it would be $11. I was just pointing out that Toronto's rail link is painfully expensive for what it provides. Me too, I wasn't disagreeing with you. Toronto's system sounds bad and they should feel bad.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:34
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jm20 posted:You say we cover this scenario, but extremely rarely are repeat drunk driving offenses given a dangerous offender status. I removed the example to prevent this post from being a massive quote wall. I still don't understand from all of this what makes you think something is too lenient. What would be appropriate and why? It seems to me that you think a crime, regardless of intent or context deserves the same sentence in all situations which doesn't seem right to me. I previously discussed context with respect to law and rulings which you didn't discuss in your reply. What leads you to believe that longer sentences will act as a deterrent? Again, my understanding is that people that either willingly or accidentally create a crime don't generally have the repercussions of that crime in mind during the act. I just don't understand why you think what you are proposing is going to lead to better outcomes to anyone. In my opinion you haven't addressed that or why you don't feel that context is important. You also seem to be on the side of "guilty until proven innocent" which definitely feels wrong to me.
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Nov 13, 2015 18:41
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RBC posted:it's 19 dollars with presto but w/e. Not going to argue in earnest with Mr. Luxury Yacht about the convenience of flying Presto is dumb and bad though. Like, of all my friends who live in the city maybe like, one of them has it. I sure as hell don't. Sure if you live in the burbs and take GO but it's just not practical yet. Because it's at like, half the subway stations, like two streetcar lines (I know they were promising to upgrade all the old streetcars but have they actually got off their asses and super-glued the readers to them yet?) and no or barely any buses. Also it doesn't track balances in real time and takes 24 hours to add funds to your account online. Of course you can buy pre-loaded ones ($8 worth plus $6 issuing fee lol). But only at terminals at Queen's Park and Union Station IIRC. Loading in person is faster but I'm pretty sure you can only do that at GO Stations? So yeah I don't think a tourist can easily rely on just Presto. Maybe after they finish the roll-out like they promised. But it's taking loving forever.
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Nov 13, 2015 19:02
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Sedge and Bee posted:Why is incarceration a good choice for punitive measures? If we want to punish someone then flogging or some other form of physical punishment, or even forced labor, would seem to work as well. I'm in favour of corporal punishment as an option but most people think that's inhumane or something (like locking people up isn't). Without physically harming the individual there isn't much we can actually use to punish. Taking away property and freedom is pretty well it.
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Nov 13, 2015 19:11
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:
Seriously? That's stupid. The rollout in Ottawa's already done, all of the buses have them, they work, the balance updates that they do in the stations are instant and if it's not the first or last of the month there's basically no line.
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Nov 13, 2015 19:11
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So, to change from buschat here is all the ministerial mandate letters for you guys. Yes, we made them public. Why? because it's 2015 (No, I am tired of that line yet)
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Nov 13, 2015 19:12
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Presto is dumb and bad though. Like, of all my friends who live in the city maybe like, one of them has it. I sure as hell don't. Sure if you live in the burbs and take GO but it's just not practical yet. Because it's at like, half the subway stations, like two streetcar lines (I know they were promising to upgrade all the old streetcars but have they actually got off their asses and super-glued the readers to them yet?) and no or barely any buses. Pretty soon tourists will have to rely on just Presto because the TTC's plan is to have the entire system run solely on Presto by the end of 2016, when they will stop selling tickets and tokens, and by the middle of 2017 they will stop accepting tickets and tokens so it's either use Presto or pay the full cash fare. Presto is not a great system compared to card systems in other transit networks around the world, but it is about 1000% better than what the TTC has now.
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Nov 13, 2015 19:13
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