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quote:A job for better men than I, then? I suppose I can't argue with that!
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Nov 13, 2015 06:54
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Dallan Invictus posted:This was just a cunning ploy to get himself a different avatar than OSI bean dip. A minor victory I assure you, I even have text now. I still have avatars off because nothing is work safe. OSI bean dip posted:Kindly tell us what an "adequate sentence" might be for these sort of crimes. Please let me know what you think Marco Muzzo deserves as a sentence. http://montrealgazette.com/opinion/...-5-year-old-boy Or as another example, is this fair a fair conclusion for this crime? Vasler posted:I guess the question I have then is, how do you come to the conclusion that a sentence is too long or too short? What is your basis for making that claim? Perhaps you're a lawyer or have some experience in law? I don't mean this sarcastically but I am curious how you actually sit down and decide that a judge has sentenced someone incorrectly and how you reach that conclusion. Let's give you a scenario, your mother/spouse/child dies in a car accident, let's use drunk driving as an example. The conviction is 4 years, and a 4 year driving ban. Is this a fair sentence for your family member? Guess what, they don't serve full sentences either hooray! M.McFly posted:By what metric are these crimes 'under sentenced'? What do you hope to accomplish with longer sentencing? All I can gather from your posting is that you're attempting to quench some thirst for retribution or something. When you have Conrad Black going to prison for a longer term (US I know) than people who commit vehicular manslaughter, do you think this is fair? Do you think justice is served when we convict someone for 4-5 years, and they are out in 3 after they've reformed? Gus Hobbleton posted:By this logic I should be able to walk into a crowded place, put on a blindfold, and start spinning around with a chainsaw in my hands. OOPS IT WAS AN ACCIDENT I DIDN'T MEAN IT! I would like harsher penalties as well, but yours are a bit strong. Drinking and driving, minimum sentence 6 months in jail first offence sounds about right.
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Nov 13, 2015 06:55
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PT6A posted:Well, the real question is: do you want the sentences to be modified because it "feels right" or because you imagine it will produce some sort of benefit beyond making you, and presumably some other people, feel good? Do we really want a criminal justice system that gives significant consideration to our gut feelings? I, for one, do not, and I'm happy to say I've evolved quite a bit on this issue over the past few years. Like, if a bunch of people look at a ruling and say "wait what, why did the judge do that?" then something's wrong. You can try and illegitamize that by chalking it up to "tummyfeels" but the laws and the judges who weigh the rulings are (as I understood it? gently caress, maybe I'm wrong) should reflect the general will of the common person -- or their rulings should pass the "smell test" or whatever phrasing you wanna use. I don't think saying "hey we have these rules FOR A REASON" is of any use, if the result is still bad.
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Nov 13, 2015 06:56
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Speaking of punishment, what's the dalhousie gentlemen's club of 2015 doing now?
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Nov 13, 2015 06:56
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Cultural Imperial posted:Speaking of punishment, what's the dalhousie gentlemen's club of 2015 doing now? Signing cheques and printing dollar bills Edit: perhaps even "roleplaying" horrible bosses irl
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Nov 13, 2015 06:57
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jm20 posted:When you have Conrad Black going to prison for a longer term (US I know) than people who commit vehicular manslaughter, do you think this is fair? Do you think justice is served when we convict someone for 4-5 years, and they are out in 3 after they've reformed? No, I'd want to kill them, and in quite a painful way at that. Hell, if someone did a hit-and-run on my car, I'd want to beat them with a tire iron. That doesn't mean our judicial system should entertain my, or anyone else's, fantasies of revenge. Leaving punishment solely up to the victim without regard for what's best for society is barbarism.
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Nov 13, 2015 07:00
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PT6A you just keep making me like you more. If you ever end up in o town or I end up in Calgary, let's go flying. I'll even let you be PIC.
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Nov 13, 2015 07:01
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bunnyofdoom posted:PT6A you just keep making me like you more. If you ever end up in o town or I end up in Calgary, let's go flying. I'll even let you be PIC. That could happen. A good friend of mine is moving to Toronto next week, so I might have a reason to come out east finally.
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Nov 13, 2015 07:09
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P.d0t posted:Like, if a bunch of people look at a ruling and say "wait what, why did the judge do that?" then something's wrong. You can try and illegitamize that by chalking it up to "tummyfeels" but the laws and the judges who weigh the rulings are (as I understood it? gently caress, maybe I'm wrong) should reflect the general will of the common person -- or their rulings should pass the "smell test" or whatever phrasing you wanna use. Well the other problem is that people usually aren't reading the actual judgements involved. People usually hear a small snippet of something in the media, decide that so and so deserves punishment X, but generally don't stop to think about the various modifying factors at play. Those modifiers are encoded in law, and if they're to be changed, it's legislators you need to deal with. The challenge is to not overreact and write something that violates a bunch of charter rights. I agree there's room for improvement though. Concurrent sentences in particular seem odd to me; I knew a guy who was convicted of a dozen or so sexual assault and sexual interference charges, but those all get to be served concurrently, leading to a total between them of 3 years or something. But he also extorted a lot of the victims into sending him photos, and so got 11 years of jail time for that.  e: on the other hand, I would think it equally ridiculous if someone committed 20 minor robberies, and received 20 x 6 months of jail time for it or whatever. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 07:18 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 07:10
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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jm20 posted:When you have Conrad Black going to prison for a longer term (US I know) than people who commit vehicular manslaughter, do you think this is fair? Do you think justice is served when we convict someone for 4-5 years, and they are out in 3 after they've reformed? See, I actually want to see people be reformed, but that's often double-speak for "keeping people in jail forever is expensive, so everyone gets out eventually, gently caress it." That's an injustice to both the convict and society as a whole (and particularly any victims.) Now, I don't think everyone can be reformed but apparently we don't like to hang people or give them lethal injections or the electric chair, so we're back at "keeping people in jail forever is expensive, so everyone gets out eventually, gently caress it" except it's also applying to the worst of the worst. It's not an excuse to lock up everyone forever, but why are people getting let out who aren't rehabilitated, or can't/won't be? It also bothers me that "well criminals just become even worse in prison" as if that's something we could never change or improve on. The whole criminal justice system is a giant poo poo sandwich. edit: Also this  PittTheElder posted:Concurrent sentences P.d0t fucked around with this message at 07:14 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 07:11
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Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2015 08:07
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Canpol law and order: Crucify lord black of crossharbour. Oh jenny kwan does good work so let her off.
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Nov 13, 2015 08:13
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P.d0t posted:It also bothers me that "well criminals just become even worse in prison" as if that's something we could never change or improve on. you can't have it both ways. prison is either a punishment or a place where offenders can be rehabilitated
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Nov 13, 2015 08:22
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the talent deficit posted:you can't have it both ways. prison is either a punishment or a place where offenders can be rehabilitated How are they mutually exclusive? They are punished by limiting their freedom and at the same time have access to programs to allow them to be productive members of society once they are out. You can do both.
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Nov 13, 2015 08:29
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the talent deficit posted:you can't have it both ways. prison is either a punishment or a place where offenders can be rehabilitated Eh this is basically semantics; if you're a threat to society, you shouldn't be out in it. Whether or not you can be rehabilitated determines whether you're in what currently constitutes a "prison" or in " p.d0t's pipe-dream rehab" but you should still be in "the system," whatever form that takes.
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Nov 13, 2015 08:29
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Cultural Imperial posted:Canpol law and order: Consider Vic Teows is a judge
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Nov 13, 2015 08:30
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My anecdotal example is from when I worked in loss prevention, and our agency arrested the same rear end in a top hat(s) over 100 times because they "only" stole a ~$500 cartful of steak/replacement razorblades/AA batteries, which -> theft under $5000 -> judge goes "this poo poo is not worth my time, ~community measures~" for someone who has clearly decided that stealing is their career. There's a difference between that person, and the kid who steals a candy bar, and a person who steals food because they're impoverished due to addictions and/or mental health issues. But by and large, the end result is ... well, not "the same" but usually the person who's the rotten apple gets a slap on the wrist and/or doesn't get their behaviour-pattern corrected (and we don't wanna lock em up and throw away the key, because  ), and the person who needs emotional/psychological help doesn't end up getting it, either.Like, I don't know what the law expects judges to do regarding this poo poo, or what powers they even have to do anything, I just know it's failing people left-right-and-centre, so the system needs to change. I guess my answer is, I want the system to actually fix broken people, whatever shape that takes. And I don't want a one-size-fits-all bullshit solution. But if someone can't be fixed, then they shouldn't be let out; like, what's the perceived benefit?  I also think we can do a lot better by victims, but my thoughts are less refined on that front. Somebody fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2015 08:49
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Yes, victims should also be rehabilitated and comforted and helped, but that must absolutely not under any circumstances include enhanced punitive measures, victim surcharges, public floggings etc meant to make the victims dumb lizard brains "feel" better for a fleeting moment before they remember their life is still bleak and meaningless.
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Nov 13, 2015 09:00
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Agree, if anything support measures should help ensure they don't want to solely appease their lizard-brains.
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Nov 13, 2015 09:02
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Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Sep 9, 2022 |
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Nov 13, 2015 09:23
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jm20 posted:A minor victory I assure you, I even have text now. I still have avatars off because nothing is work safe. I'm gonna say that I'm probably going to be upset at the person that killed my family member. As for sentencing though I have no idea what an appropriate term is. I don't think prison/jail should be about punishing - it should be about reforming. Aside from that I don't have an answer. The thing I don't understand here is how do you determine that someone gets off too easily? What is your metric? This is something that I don't really understand in this whole discussion.
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Nov 13, 2015 14:17
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PT6A posted:That could happen. A good friend of mine is moving to Toronto next week, so I might have a reason to come out east finally. I wouldn't mind joining in on this.
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Nov 13, 2015 14:44
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THC posted:Liberals no longer promising to reopen Veterans Affairs office in Sydney. Jordan7hm posted:Herh said they would be reopening those offices but maybe putting them in different locations. THC could you source your claims like you were asked to do yesterday, please.
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Nov 13, 2015 14:44
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It looks like they're also opposing the expansion of the Toronto island airport which pisses me right off. I don't really think the people living on the island have the right to deny Toronto a very useful economic boost. Plus that hurts Bombardier even more.
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Nov 13, 2015 15:23
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edit: this brief could probably entitled "please like us"quote:Good Friday morning to you.
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Nov 13, 2015 15:26
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Kraftwerk posted:It looks like they're also opposing the expansion of the Toronto island airport which pisses me right off. I don't really think the people living on the island have the right to deny Toronto a very useful economic boost. Plus that hurts Bombardier even more. But it's not just people on the island, the expansion of the airport faces widespread opposition throughout downtown Toronto? e: Also, you know, we already have an international airport and a high speed rail link that leaves downtown every 15 mins. Reince Penis fucked around with this message at 16:02 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 15:53
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They just live there, why don't you ever think about the people who have to work there and fly in. What about their needs?
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Nov 13, 2015 16:02
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Just the fact that the airport expansion was being championed by the Ford brothers should be enough to tell anyone what a bad idea it is.
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Nov 13, 2015 16:04
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The Toronto Airport shenanigans are a perfect example of how a lot of fights in our country come down to corporate interests versus public interests. Namely, the people who live there don't want this thing to happen, but corporations do want it to happen so they can make slightly more money. Theoretically, in a democracy like ours, the people who actually live there should have a say in whether or not something disruptive to their lives happens. Of course, sometimes this leads to NIMBYism and people resisting wind turbines in rural areas, but in a case like this one I'm pretty glad that the airport won't be expanded considering it's not like Toronto lacks air connections to anywhere at the moment, and I hate the fact that so much of our society revolves around what rich businesspeople want.
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Nov 13, 2015 16:12
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:But it's not just people on the island, the expansion of the airport faces widespread opposition throughout downtown Toronto? Hardly. The new express train operates at a blistering 90 km/h, takes nearly half an hour, and costs $27/person. It is poo poo, and can easily be outdone by metro trains in proper cities.
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Nov 13, 2015 16:15
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PT6A posted:Hardly. The new express train operates at a blistering 90 km/h, takes nearly half an hour, and costs $27/person. It is poo poo, and can easily be outdone by metro trains in proper cities. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-s-airport-train-how-would-our-fare-compare-1.2741584 It compares quite well to other airport rail links both in cost and time. But I'll start dusting off the world smallest violin to play just for the air travelers, hang on.  e: Also I'm still laughing at the idea this is 'bad for bombardier.' I don't think Toronto is going to feel sorry for Bombardier when we're about to sue them because they can't deliver our streetcars anywhere CLOSE to on time. http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/transportation/2015/10/16/ttc-considers-suing-as-bombardier-streetcars-delayed-again.html Reince Penis fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 16:19
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Vasler posted:I'm gonna say that I'm probably going to be upset at the person that killed my family member. As for sentencing though I have no idea what an appropriate term is. I don't think prison/jail should be about punishing - it should be about reforming. Aside from that I don't have an answer. What is enough I am not sure myself, however removing all these opportunities to leave prison early would be a good start. This is what is also frustrating, seeing sentences handed out and having the perpetrators get off at 1/3 the sentence for good behaviour. Once again, I am only talking about crimes that are resultant in the death of another person. PT6A posted:Hardly. The new express train operates at a blistering 90 km/h, takes nearly half an hour, and costs $27/person. It is poo poo, and can easily be outdone by metro trains in proper cities. It is the fastest way from YYZ to the Royal York short of a helicopter.
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Nov 13, 2015 16:22
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PT6A posted:Hardly. The new express train operates at a blistering 90 km/h, takes nearly half an hour, and costs $27/person. It is poo poo, and can easily be outdone by metro trains in proper cities. Pick up a Presto card. The fare's only 19 bucks and it's cheaper than a lovely shared shuttle ride.
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Nov 13, 2015 16:27
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http://www.theprovince.com/touch/story.html?id=11513406 Guys it's not embezzlement. It's paying yourself a bonus!
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Nov 13, 2015 16:39
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Mods please rename CI to Weedlord Kwitler tia
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Nov 13, 2015 16:48
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I'm an ex Bombardier employee so take it from me when I tell you that they're one of the most incompetent and inefficient companies on Earth. That still doesn't change the fact that they pay very well and build a high value advanced product right here in Toronto. The average Bombardier employee make around 50k to 80k per year, gets an amazing benefits plan and has a pension fund that matches your contributions 1:1 up to 8% of your wage. They even provide up to something like 2500 per year in mental health benefits if you need a psychologist. I'm not comfortable with letting a company like that go up in smoke along with the benefits and jobs it provides to all those people. The job I work right now depends on me selling to manufacturers and I can tell you it's a loving wasteland out there in Canada. Very little manufacturing exists here anymore and definitely not in the volumes the US operates in. It's actually gonna hurt my business if I don't figure something out.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:00
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Kraftwerk posted:
By 'figure something out' do you mean repeal free trade agreements? Because otherwise I have some very bad news for you.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:02
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jm20 posted:It is the fastest way from YYZ to the Royal York short of a helicopter. And that's supposed to be impressive? PK loving SUBBAN posted:http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-s-airport-train-how-would-our-fare-compare-1.2741584 No, it compares well to the airports they specifically picked to compare it to. I notice there's no mention of Madrid or Amsterdam, two airports I've been to that have much better airport-to-centre connections. I notice there's no mention of any of the airports in China where proper high-speed lines have been built. I notice that page doesn't discuss distance or speed, just overall time. I mean -- 90 km/h? Are you loving kidding me? This is 2015, you should be able to run a train at well over 200 km/h without much trouble. Again: metro trains in some cities can run faster than that! It's embarrassing that this is the newest, greatest system Toronto could come up with. Note that I'm not actually defending the expansion of Billy Bishop. I personally support it, but obviously the people in the area do not, so I don't think my opinions ought to override other considerations. I'm just saying that your lovely airport train is a godawful embarrassment (still better than Calgary, because we don't have one, mind you...) and it's by no means "high speed."
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Nov 13, 2015 17:05
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PK loving SUBBAN posted:By 'figure something out' do you mean repeal free trade agreements? Because otherwise I have some very bad news for you. No obviously I don't have that kind of power. But one of three things will happen. Either we abandon limiting ourselves to the Canadian market and resume selling into the US or I pack up and relocate to a US division. Worst case scenario is that we shut down and I join the ranks of the permanently unemployed.
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Nov 13, 2015 17:06
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vyelkin posted:The Toronto Airport shenanigans are a perfect example of how a lot of fights in our country come down to corporate interests versus public interests. Namely, the people who live there don't want this thing to happen, but corporations do want it to happen so they can make slightly more money. Theoretically, in a democracy like ours, the people who actually live there should have a say in whether or not something disruptive to their lives happens. Of course, sometimes this leads to NIMBYism and people resisting wind turbines in rural areas, but in a case like this one I'm pretty glad that the airport won't be expanded considering it's not like Toronto lacks air connections to anywhere at the moment, and I hate the fact that so much of our society revolves around what rich businesspeople want. I used to live around there and wanted the airport expanded and am not a rich businessman. Having an airport you can easily take transit to or loving walk to, had great service, and let's you fly places for super cheap is awesome as poo poo. Getting to Montreal with less than hour total travel time for like, less than $200 on a good sale? That's p. awesome. As far as I'm concerned if it would let me fly even more places for even cheaper I like it. Because travelling is cool and fun and I'm not made of money. How awesome would it be to get similar discounts and be able to go even further? Of course I was renting so I didn't give a gently caress about "Mein condo value " dropping because of noise or whatever.But no you're right only the "corporations" wanted it 
Mr Luxury Yacht fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Nov 13, 2015 |
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Nov 13, 2015 17:08
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