USPOL Nov: I would've preferred Huckabee have said nothing at all

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPOL Nov: I would've preferred Huckabee have said nothing at all

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Greatbacon: Apr 9, 2012; by Pragmatica

Paul MaudDib posted:

But you're not going to elaborate how they're different?

It's the same approach - choices deemed inappropriate are cracked down upon by making it more difficult to access them.

If you want meat, you can eat a slimjim in your dorm room. Are you suggesting performing abortions in your dorm room as well?

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:35

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# ? May 30, 2024 15:21

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Tatum Girlparts posted:

Yea these are exactly the same situations

The goal isn't to have the situations be the same, it's to demonstrate a specific point - in this case, that 'coercion' can still exist when you can get around it. You generally go for an example that is unarguable so you can extract the necessary point instead of just arguing over a new situation as well.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:35

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

Paul MaudDib posted:

But you're not going to elaborate how they're different?

It's the same approach - choices deemed inappropriate are cracked down upon by making it more difficult to access them.

I genuinely didn't think I needed to explain that a school's dining hall, which is one of multiple places on campus to get food, having a meatless day is different than the only abortion clinic in town closing down. Like, I actually figured you were joking because that was the dumbest loving post possible to make, even dumber than Evil's comparison to having to listen to some kinda crazy preacher or whatever.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:36

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Greatbacon posted:

If you want meat, you can eat a slimjim* in your dorm room. Are you suggesting performing abortions in your dorm room as well?

*Snap into a slim jim (tm)

evilweasel posted:

The goal isn't to have the situations be the same, it's to demonstrate a specific point - in this case, that 'coercion' can still exist when you can get around it. You generally go for an example that is unarguable so you can extract the necessary point instead of just arguing over a new situation as well.

The goal is false equivalence.

Liking the thread title. Usually you need to be an Iowa farmer to get this entitled about food items in a primary season.

farraday fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Nov 14, 2015

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:36

sexpig by night: Sep 8, 2011; by Azathoth

evilweasel posted:

The goal isn't to have the situations be the same, it's to demonstrate a specific point - in this case, that 'coercion' can still exist when you can get around it. You generally go for an example that is unarguable so you can extract the necessary point instead of just arguing over a new situation as well.

No I'm pretty sure the goal is drawing a false comparison between 'I had to walk a bit more to get a hamburger at the campus grill instead of dining hall' and a woman being denied her fundamental right to control her body freely used as a cudgel to try to imply that the stance of 'maybe this wasn't actually a big deal' is the same for both examples.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:39

ComradeCosmobot: Dec 4, 2004; USPOL July

That new thread tag sure is getting a work out these days :allears:

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:40

Paul MaudDib: May 3, 2006; TEAM NVIDIA:
FORUM POLICE

Peven Stan posted:

Reminds me of when our favorite university closed down the greasy spoon serving patty melts and other favorites and reopened it as an ala carte asian place with pho and spring rolls. People lost their poo poo at this attempt of liberal PC coercion.

Pho is delicious but I'm afraid it typically contains meat products. Normally it contains meat, and broth doesn't grow on trees either.

Don't worry though, I hear you can make a delicious broth by stewing the bones of the tofubeast.

Greatbacon posted:

If you want meat, you can eat a slimjim in your dorm room. Are you suggesting performing abortions in your dorm room as well?

Actually that's a very typical setting for abortions in areas that are restricted. Doesn't matter where you pop the misoprostol.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:40

PUGGERNAUT: Nov 14, 2013; I AM INCREDIBLY BORING AND SHOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT FOOD IN THE POLITICS THREAD

Peven Stan posted:

So are people entitled to have the institutions around them serve the kind of food that they desire specifically? If so, I've been coerced for decades into eating white people food. Better get the hatchet out and start collecting scalps in response this injustice.

Reminds me of when our favorite university closed down the greasy spoon serving patty melts and other favorites and reopened it as an ala carte asian place with pho and spring rolls. People lost their poo poo at this attempt of liberal PC coercion.

God, that looks amazing. I'm guessing they shut down Eva J's? Good riddance I say.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:42

AlternateNu: May 5, 2005; ドーナツダメ！

ComradeCosmobot posted:

That new thread tag sure is getting a work out these days

This has been the strangest derail in quite some time.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:42

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Absurd Alhazred posted:

If people just didn't eat the meat then it would be wasted, because the dining hall would still be offering it. What you're suggesting is that maybe they should have had some kind of a feedback process before setting up this experiment, except I'm guessing there was one. Even if there wasn't, it was an experiment, so if people were so annoyed they could have provided feedback afterwards and this could have ended without raw meat on people's cars and going to Fox News crying about those drat liberals.

I again don't see the difference between this and any other limitation on the variety of food in dining halls, which is usually unsatisfactory, and if anything provides little to no possibility for vegetarians. I doubt that this annoyance would get as flattering an overview by Fox News or whatever.

It seems very clear that some people's annoyance is more equal than others`, which is the real point of the original post.

That is not what I'm suggesting, what I'm suggesting is exactly what I said: it is understandable why people will be annoyed at something like this. I'm saying that because people seem to genuinely not get that, or get why that annoyance is reasonable. I am not, and nobody else is, suggesting that the reaction that made the news was reasonable or justifiable. There's no reason anyone would discuss it because it's very obviously not justifiable or reasonable. Certainly some people's annoyance, in the sense that those people are lunatics, will get more notice because they take lunatic actions.

If you want some ~global lesson~ about food, then I'll give you one: a dining hall should strive to have a number of options that will appeal to different people because usually it's the main or only source of meals for a wide variety of people. But that's obvious so I haven't been bothering making that either, dining halls have known that for a while and generally have options other than the main meal/meals so that people can have something they like. My main point is that people won't be happy when you try to make it harder for them to make the choice they want to make, rather than convincing them to make the choice you think they should make.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:45

Mecca-Benghazi: Mar 31, 2012

Paul MaudDib posted:

Pho is delicious but I'm afraid it typically contains meat products. Normally it contains meat, and broth doesn't grow on trees either.

Don't worry though, I hear you can make a delicious broth by stewing the bones of the tofubeast.

I'm going to pull out my ethnic Vietnamese card and point out that vegan pho absolutely exists and I've eaten it at temple. :colbert:

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:45

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

evilweasel posted:

That is not what I'm suggesting, what I'm suggesting is exactly what I said: it is understandable why people will be annoyed at something like this. I'm saying that because people seem to genuinely not get that, or get why that annoyance is reasonable. I am not, and nobody else is, suggesting that the reaction that made the news was reasonable or justifiable. There's no reason anyone would discuss it because it's very obviously not justifiable or reasonable. Certainly some people's annoyance, in the sense that those people are lunatics, will get more notice because they take lunatic actions.

If you want some ~global lesson~ about food, then I'll give you one: a dining hall should strive to have a number of options that will appeal to different people because usually it's the main or only source of meals for a wide variety of people. But that's obvious so I haven't been bothering making that either, dining halls have known that for a while and generally have options other than the main meal/meals so that people can have something they like. My main point is that people won't be happy when you try to make it harder for them to make the choice they want to make, rather than convincing them to make the choice you think they should make.

And also that vegetarian meals are the same as forced conversion, closing abortion clinics and whatever hyper libertarian comparison you can throw at a wall because it's imposing your ideology.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:48

CAPS LOCK BROKEN: Feb 1, 2006; by Fluffdaddy

PUGGERNAUT posted:

God, that looks amazing. I'm guessing they shut down Eva J's? Good riddance I say.

Yeah they shut down eva j's. Now where am I supposed to go for some REAL AMERICAN food other than rollins, plaza, dirty dobbs, and that awkward dining place in mark twain.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:50

evilweasel: Aug 24, 2002

Also while I don't want to internet detective the original person who posted the anecdote they did say their school was in the NESCAC which is small New England colleges in the wilderness, and if you've never been in a new england winter, poo poo's cold. Any noticeable distance is a real pain in the rear end because of the cold and wind. I would be especially annoyed at an additional ten minute walk in december to get good food.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 18:53

GalacticAcid: Apr 8, 2013; NEW YORK VALUES

I know there is a separate PredictIt thread but the glory of this euphemism deserves to be seen by all -

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:22

trilobite terror: Oct 20, 2007; BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Paul MaudDib posted:

Meat owns though, and everyone knows it. Since we're trading anecdotes, the only vegan I knew was also a white guy and he was militant about it. He got catty and eventually abusive with a very sweet girl because she wouldn't adopt his dietary habits.

Maybe if you want to have Meatless Mondays you can have a campaign to convince students of its merits rather than imposing it on them? We get 10 feet of snowfall, nobody wants to walk across campus just for the hell of it.

Overall it's kinda revealing that you raise this in response to students protesting systems of racism on campus. Militant vegans are basically the "abortion is murder!" crowd of the left. Nobody is oppressing you by eating meat in your presence. Fish, chicken, and pork aren't even particularly carbon-intensive.

I'm sorry, I didn't do a good job of explaining that the school had already held a referendum among the student body which had passed in favor of it. This was subsequently portrayed as leftist oppression of a political minority and an unwillingness to accommodate dissent.

Also, it's a really small school and the dining halls are on the same side of campus. They're at most a 2 minute walk apart- maybe 3 minutes in the worst winter weather.

Not serving meat on two days per month at only one of those isn't remotely close to the level of militant veganism you're describing here Cartman.

The effect of MM was at most mildly inconvenient for those students and their response was totally inappropriate.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:27

farraday: Jan 10, 2007; Lower those eyebrows, young man. And the other one.

Electric Bugaloo posted:

I'm sorry, I didn't do a good job of explaining that the school had already held a referendum among the student body which had passed in favor of it. This was subsequently portrayed as leftist oppression of a political minority and an unwillingness to accommodate dissent.

Also, it's a really small school and the dining halls are on the same side of campus. They're at most a 2 minute walk apart- maybe 3 minutes in the worst winter weather.

Not serving meat on two days per month at only one of those isn't remotely close to the level of militant veganism you're describing here Cartman.

The effect of MM was at most mildly inconvenient for those students and their response was totally inappropriate.

A referendum? That's just like a referendums banning gay marriage. You can't hold a referendum to remove people's bacon wrapped rights!

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:29

Cabbit: Jul 19, 2001; _{Is that everything you have?}

If bacon is outlawed, only outlaws will have bacon.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:33

TROIKA CURES GREEK: Jun 30, 2015; by R. Guyovich

ComradeCosmobot posted:

Time for some bleed-over from the Paris Attacks thread (in so far as it relates to USPOL):

Conservatives now have yet another tool in their belt to use to dismissively wave away any discussion about Mizzou.

A Syrian passport was found near the body of one of the terrorists, and was identified as belonging to someone who may have been a refugee who entered Europe through Greece. So you can expect that to become a talking-point/question for the various presidential candidates (for seriousness of said candidate on terrorism, for closing the Mexican border, etc.)

Wow, opening the doors to a terrorist filled warzone with no vetting process turned out badly? Who would have thought?

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:38

Islam is the Lite Rock FM: Jul 27, 2007; by exmarx

Cabbit posted:

If bacon is outlawed, only outlaws will have bacon.

Outlawing bacon is one step closer to SHARIA LAW.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:40

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

Bacon is good in split pea soup.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:41

fknlo: Jul 6, 2009; Fun Shoe

Is there anything against the OMG MIZZOU BABIES ANGRY ABOUT PARIS thing outside of it being from Dick Cheney's tabloid? It seems to be making the rounds and I guarantee you I'm going to hear about it at work tonight.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:41

WhiskeyJuvenile: Feb 15, 2002; by Nyc_Tattoo

gently caress this Christmas in November bullshit

Exclusionary and terrible

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:43

TROIKA CURES GREEK: Jun 30, 2015; by R. Guyovich

farraday posted:

And also that vegetarian meals are the same as forced conversion, closing abortion clinics and whatever hyper libertarian comparison you can throw at a wall because it's imposing your ideology.

It's really weird how people can't seem to make a point without crying about libertarians or racism or whatever.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:46

James Garfield: May 5, 2012; Am I a manipulative abuser in real life, or do I just roleplay one on the Internet for fun? You decide!

I'm curious how far the "coercion" thing goes. Let's say it is unacceptable coercion for one of two dining halls to serve no meat or fish every other Monday.

Is it still unacceptable for the dining hall to serve fish instead of meat on those days? What about serving meat, but not beef?
My university dining hall had a station that sometimes carved meat - was it bad coercion on the days when they weren't? Would it be coercion if that station carved pork one day?
Is it still coercion if the dining hall has a sandwich station (as mine did) and you can get a ham/turkey/roast beef sandwich there on meatless Mondays?

On another side, is it still coercion if the meatless days happen once a month? Once a year? If it's a one-time event?

Is it coercion for the dining hall to have a Thanksgiving themed day where the meat on offer is turkey?

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:48

Trabisnikof: Dec 24, 2005

Food nutrition guidelines is a coercive forcing of an ideology of "health eating" on the dinning hall.

Republicans actually believe this.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:51

PUGGERNAUT: Nov 14, 2013; I AM INCREDIBLY BORING AND SHOULD STOP TALKING ABOUT FOOD IN THE POLITICS THREAD

I had vegetarian pad se ew for lunch, next stop Hitler

fknlo posted:

Is there anything against the OMG MIZZOU BABIES ANGRY ABOUT PARIS thing outside of it being from Dick Cheney's tabloid? It seems to be making the rounds and I guarantee you I'm going to hear about it at work tonight.

More than likely it's just a few cherry-picked tweets about people being frustrated.

quote:

As it�s hard to discern �outrage� from disapproval from apathy in 140 characters, understand when someone says �That�s disgusting,� �I don�t like that,� or �I�m never going there again,� it�s not necessarily that they�re �outraged.� If I go to a restaurant and the food sucks, I might say, �That wasn�t good. I�m never going there again.� That�s not me calling for a boycott. That�s not me being outraged. That�s just an opinion, and when you lose your poo poo over it in response, you�re the one who looks like you don�t have it together.

If it helps, my Facebook feed (which is like 50% Mizzou classmates) is filled with stories about France and stories about student protests. I don't see anyone bitching that one is getting attention over the other.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:53

Fuckt Tupp: Apr 19, 2007; Science

Meatless Mondays are stymieing my right to self-identify as a carnivore. We need a safe space, preferably near a slaughter house.

# ? Nov 14, 2015 19:58

Proust Malone: Apr 4, 2008

Internet Webguy posted:

Meatless Mondays are stymieing my right to self-identify as a carnivore. We need a safe space, preferably near a slaughter house.

Yes, we need a slaughterhouse to secure the existence of our people and a future for White Children.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slaughter-House_Cases

# ? Nov 14, 2015 20:04