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Is there any evidence that NATO/the US military is capable of effectively destroying ISIS or is this purely wishful thinking? I know they liberated a few Kurds, which was awesome, but historically we've done a poor job at killing the ideology out of people.
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Nov 17, 2015 17:55
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fishmech posted:Massachusetts isn't against the refugees, just the Republican governor is. It's the same deal in Illinois. No longer true post Fridays attack.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:00
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zoux posted:Now would be a good time to remind them that just a few months ago they wouldn't shut up about how all lives matter. Sure they did! They said all white lives matter, weren't you listening?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:00
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KomradeX posted:The number of people saying that should fix the problem themselves and stay in Syria is depressing. And I can't even form into words why that's a bad idea. bootstraps!
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Nov 17, 2015 18:02
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Radbot posted:Is there any evidence that NATO/the US military is capable of effectively destroying ISIS or is this purely wishful thinking? I know they liberated a few Kurds, which was awesome, but historically we've done a poor job at killing the ideology out of people. Yes, and we've actually been pretty historically good about killing the ideology out of people, it's other major pillars of national power that we've been pretty bad at exercising in concert (economic, social and political). Boon fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 18:06
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Boon posted:Yes, and we've actually been pretty historically good about killing the ideology out of people, it's the other major pillars of national power that we've been pretty bad at exercising in concert (economic and political). Gonna need an example here.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:08
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Boon posted:Yes, and we've actually been pretty historically good about killing the ideology out of people, it's the other major pillars of national power that we've been pretty bad at exercising in concert (economic and political). Yes like the Taliban.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:10
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Boon posted:Yes, and we've actually been pretty historically good about killing the ideology out of people, it's other major pillars of national power that we've been pretty bad at exercising in concert (economic, social and political). Which ideology did will kill in Iraq/Afghanistan?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:12
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Shageletic posted:Gonna need an example here. The Germans?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:13
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Boon posted:Yes, and we've actually been pretty historically good about killing the ideology out of people, it's other major pillars of national power that we've been pretty bad at exercising in concert (economic, social and political). This is why Nazis no longer exist at all.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:14
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zoux posted:Now would be a good time to remind them that just a few months ago they wouldn't shut up about how all lives matter. All lives matter; some, more than others. The American people don't care about the first-gen immigrants. Its not first-gen immigrants you see carrying out terrorism in France. Its their kids that we don't trust the Obama administration to deal with. Radbot posted:Is there any evidence that NATO/the US military is capable of effectively destroying ISIS or is this purely wishful thinking? I know they liberated a few Kurds, which was awesome, but historically we've done a poor job at killing the ideology out of people. 
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Nov 17, 2015 18:15
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Fried Chicken posted:A major new poll from the Public Religion Research Institute suggests these GOP lawmakers and candidates may be reading the mood of the overall public — and GOP voters in particular — with dispiriting accuracy. Yep this is no longer a partisan issue, moderates and even lefties are swinging to the right on this pretty much exactly like I predicted months ago. The left really needs to reevaluate their line here because they are currently losing badly and it could easily cost them the election. You could tell how uncomfortable they were during the debate- Bernie in particular knows he's not winning an election that is focused on foreign policy and Hillary's very much in trouble too. Dems in general fair very poorly in these sorts of elections and excel in pocket book focused elections.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:15
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My Imaginary GF posted:All lives matter; some, more than others. I agree, which is why I think we should intern Irish immigrants after the horrific attacks carried out by Dylann Roof. tsa posted:You could tell how uncomfortable they were during the debate- Bernie in particular knows he's not winning an election that is focused on foreign policy and Hillary's very much in trouble too. Dems in general fair very poorly in these sorts of elections and excel in pocket book focused elections. Which makes sense, considering the worst terrorist attack on American soil and the wars that created ISIS were both carried out under mostly Democratic presidencies. Right?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:16
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Gravel Gravy posted:Yes like the Taliban. He says we are good at our wars excising ideology but fails at structural solutions, so you point to a group utterly driven from power and rejected by the populace that is coming back after a series of sustained structural failures?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:16
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Ehh I'd argue that when you say you're the master race then pick a fight with the very people you propagandize as subhuman and lose, your ideology in itself has failed.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:17
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It's probably misconstruing the question, but we've been historically pretty good at applying the military in terms of national power, what we've been bad at is applying diplomatic and economic strength in support of the same strategic ends.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:17
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Boon posted:It's probably misconstruing the question, but we've been historically pretty good at applying the military in terms of national power, what we've been bad at is applying diplomatic and economic strength in support of strategic ends. I wonder what the Kurds would say about your assessment of the Gulf War?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:18
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Radbot posted:Which ideology did will kill in Iraq/Afghanistan? Are you taking the position that we were successful in building good economic, political, social, and infrastructure components of society in these places, but that the people there just liked the idea of violent theocracy more?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:18
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To be fair, the Republican strategy to beat ISIS would succeed. You just keep bombing everybody with no distinction given between enemy and civilian. Eventually there will be nobody left to bomb. Problem solved.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:19
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Fried Chicken posted:Are you taking the position that we were successful in building good economic, political, social, and infrastructure components of society in these places, but that the people there just liked the idea of violent theocracy more? No, I'm asking which ideology we killed in Iraq/Afghanistan.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:19
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I wonder what thing that is actually somehow worse than ISIS we're going to create with our inevitable terrible and short sighted "solution" to this problem.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:19
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Radbot posted:I wonder what the Kurds would say about your assessment of the Gulf War? I don't understand.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:20
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My Fellow Americans, we have defeated ISIS but our bombs uncovered some ancient robotic lions that militants in the region have seized to create Salafist Voltron.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:20
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Louie Gohmert just asked Loretta Lynch if she had a degree in Islamic Studies during a hearing over the refugee thing. Go to loving hell you piece of poo poo.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:20
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Luigi Thirty posted:Louie Gohmert just asked Loretta Lynch if she had a degree in Islamic Studies during a hearing over the refugee thing. Go to loving hell you piece of poo poo. The easiest answer would be "Do you?"
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Nov 17, 2015 18:21
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Fried Chicken posted:He says we are good at our wars excising ideology but fails at structural solutions, so you point to a group utterly driven from power and rejected by the populace that is coming back after a series of sustained structural failures? Are we just citing Kabul?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:21
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zoux posted:My Fellow Americans, we have defeated ISIS but our bombs uncovered some ancient robotic lions that militants in the region have seized to create Salafist Voltron. Shahada! Salat! Zakat! Sawm! Hajj! By your pillars combined, I am Captain Wahhabi! *destabilizes Middle East*
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Nov 17, 2015 18:22
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Paul Ryan just came out and said that the President does not need a new AUMF against ISIS, so that puts a hole in that GOP talking point
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Nov 17, 2015 18:22
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Radbot posted:No, I'm asking which ideology we killed in Iraq/Afghanistan. No your "question" was a frame of an assertion that we hadn't. Except your point to where the problem lies hinges on the assumption I pointed out.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:23
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SquadronROE posted:This is why Nazis no longer exist at all. Existing as an idea and in small, powerless circles = US no good at removing Nazi's militarily Boon fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 18:23
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Fried Chicken posted:No your "question" was a frame of an assertion that we hadn't. Except your point to where the problem lies hinges on the assumption I pointed out. I don't really give a poo poo what you have to say, I wasn't talking to you. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Nov 17, 2015 18:23
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zoux posted:I wonder what thing that is actually somehow worse than ISIS we're going to create with our inevitable terrible and short sighted "solution" to this problem. Honestly about the only thing worse would be their ideology coupled to an industrial base. There isn't much in the way of monstrous crimes they haven't committed, and those they haven't are a limit of scale and ability. I mean just look at the mass grave they found Saturday. Fried Chicken fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 18:25
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Radbot posted:I don't really give a poo poo what you have to say, I wasn't talking to you. Okay, but Fried Chicken put it pretty well (and better than I), so the point still stands.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:26
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Radbot posted:I don't really give a poo poo what you have to say, I wasn't talking to you. You ever notice how every time we interact, I point out you have no idea what you are talking about, and you lose your poo poo?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:26
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zoux posted:My Fellow Americans, we have defeated ISIS but our bombs uncovered some ancient robotic lions that militants in the region have seized to create Salafist Voltron. Then it is time for us to deploy operation Lightspeed Rescue.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:27
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Boon posted:It's probably misconstruing the question, but we've been historically pretty good at applying the military in terms of national power, what we've been bad at is applying diplomatic and economic strength in support of the same strategic ends. We "defeated" the USSR through our diplomatic and economic efforts as much as (if not more so) than any military ones. Not sure if "not falling to pieces as a nation" can really be considered a massive victory, of course, but the Cold War can hardly be considered a military victory.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:27
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Gravel Gravy posted:Are we just citing Kabul? In terms of what, structural failures, or ideological control? Because id say the structural failures went well beyond Kabul.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:31
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Radbot posted:Is there any evidence that NATO/the US military is capable of effectively destroying ISIS or is this purely wishful thinking? I know they liberated a few Kurds, which was awesome, but historically we've done a poor job at killing the ideology out of people. It can't be done with a Hellfire missile or a smart bomb dropped from 10,000 feet. It can't be done without stopping the flow of money from the Middle East Monarchies to the extremists and we are never going to even try to do that.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:31
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FlamingLiberal posted:Paul Ryan just came out and said that the President does not need a new AUMF against ISIS, so that puts a hole in that GOP talking point Obama doesn't need one --- and Congress doesn't want to authorize one --- but it's the constitutional thing to do.
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Nov 17, 2015 18:34
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FlamingLiberal posted:Paul Ryan just came out and said that the President does not need a new AUMF against ISIS, so that puts a hole in that GOP talking point Sooooo, does that mean that Obama can just do whatever he wants with the military wrt ISIS or what?
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Nov 17, 2015 18:35
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