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Vahalla posted:I'm looking to upgrade from my Vulture into something larger. FDLs and Pythons are similarly priced, and I mostly intend to do bounties. Is there a glaringly right choice? Seems like the FDL is the shootier option to the Python's more multi-faceted capabilities. The FAS is cheaper and a lot more agile than the FDL / Python, it fells down in shields and firepower but it's the closest to a straight upgrade from the Vulture than anything else is. With the coming buffs the FDL is going to be objectively better though, other than the terrible jump range.
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Nov 17, 2015 19:48
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Doctor Soup posted:The largest thing I've flown is a vulture, I guess I was assuming that your shields would never go down on larger ships in PvE because they only go down on my vulture when I'm low on shields anyway and I do something dumb because I'm bored. What size RES were you doing? When you start getting wings with multiple Condas shields stop being a thing you have towards the end Especially as an iRammer, since a full boost hit vs a large ship will take off a full level of shields (but take off 20%+ of a Conda hull and I swear if you hit a module it has a good chance of taking that out completely)
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Nov 17, 2015 19:50
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Vahalla posted:I'm looking to upgrade from my Vulture into something larger. FDLs and Pythons are similarly priced, and I mostly intend to do bounties. Is there a glaringly right choice? Seems like the FDL is the shootier option to the Python's more multi-faceted capabilities. Right now the Python is pretty clearly the best at PVE, especially endurance-oriented activites like grinding out bounties or combat zones. - The outpost docking is pretty significant - Its hardpoints are second only to the conda and the distributor is big enough to use them well - It's still reasonably quick and maneuverable - Shielding is second only to the conda - With the best power plant it can run dual SCBs with hardpoints deployed - It easily converts to being one of the best ships at certain trade/mining roles too The hardest part is adapting to the lower maneuverability when you're used to the zero-effort flight model of the vulture. The picture might get shaken up some with the balance changes in beta, but that's all speculative and subject to change right now.
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Nov 17, 2015 20:09
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Vahalla posted:I'm looking to upgrade from my Vulture into something larger. FDLs and Pythons are similarly priced, and I mostly intend to do bounties. Is there a glaringly right choice? Seems like the FDL is the shootier option to the Python's more multi-faceted capabilities. A fighting weight FDL is incredibly cheap compared to a python, and a little cheaper than a clipper. FDL is also poised to become a total beast with the next patch, but it and the clipper are more pvp ships
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Nov 17, 2015 20:29
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Adult Sword Owner posted:What size RES were you doing? When you start getting wings with multiple Condas shields stop being a thing you have towards the end I've been doing hazres. I've rarely seen an anaconda in a wing with a ship bigger than a vulture, and I only attack anacondas in wings if I can vaporize the other ships quick or if the wing is engaged with other pirates. I've also never had a wing I couldn't take open fire on me instead of scanning and leaving. Maybe I'm getting easier spawns because my combat rank is lower? Between chaff and bad AI, my shields don't get hit that much in the first place, which is why I sometimes do something dumb like engage an anaconda with barely any shields left. Most of the time I can get away with it because the anaconda will just spin in place and/or decide it has to point it's nose at me before it's allowed to open fire and since I just hug its butt the whole time that doesn't happen. So far my shields have been great for when I mess up. I take damage rarely enough that their base recharge rate is self sustaining and it's only when I get bored or feel like doing something silly that I have to start using chaff and shield cells. My assumption was that larger more expensive ships would be the same way, only sturdier and faster killers. That's the reason I assumed shields were better for PvE. You can shoot things in hazres until you need to refuel (if you're also using only lasers).
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Nov 17, 2015 20:29
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Did a few tests for DBB involving heatsinks and shields on an Anaconda equipped with one heatsink launcher, one 7b SCB, one 4B SCB and switching between a 6A, 6C and 6C Bi-Weave shield generator. Heatsinks and Shield Cells Banks: - activating both shield cells with no heatsink: temperature peaked at 220% - activating both shield cells and afterward the heatsink: temperature peaked at aprox 120% - activating the heatsink and then both shield cells: temperature peaked at 107% - activating the heatsink and both shield cells while firing C3 Pulse Lasers and the C4 PAC: temperature peaked at aprox 120% Shield recharge - 6A Shield: 1 minute 35 seconds to come back online at 50% strenght from 0% - 6C Shield: 1:24 - 6C Bi-Weave: 58 seconds
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Nov 17, 2015 20:56
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timn posted:Right now the Python is pretty clearly the best at PVE, especially endurance-oriented activites like grinding out bounties or combat zones. Don't fit 3 beam lasers though. Just don't. They run very hot.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:12
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I don't know why burst lasers aren't more popular. Similar fitting requirements, but as far as I know they do just a smidge less DPS in exchange for much better heat and WEP efficiency and maybe also better penetration?
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Nov 17, 2015 21:19
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Sard posted:I don't know why burst lasers aren't more popular. Similar fitting requirements, but as far as I know they do just a smidge less DPS in exchange for much better heat and WEP efficiency and maybe also better penetration? They're good, yeah. The problem is, they're still worse then beams and drain the capacitor astonishingly fast, since you're effectively firing three times every time you pull the trigger. Also to get better firepower than the pulse laser you need to hit with all three separate shots. If you miss one or two of them, tough luck. Especially small targets can be annoying to fight with burst lasers. There are some edge cases where you're better off with them, of course. The Python is a good example: If you have a good capacitor, having burst lasers instead of hot-running beams can be an advantage.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:28
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Sard posted:I don't know why burst lasers aren't more popular. Similar fitting requirements, but as far as I know they do just a smidge less DPS in exchange for much better heat and WEP efficiency and They're anti-shield gimmick lasers that do poo poo damage against bare metal. They're fine if you can follow up with some cannon-style physical weapons, but most people prefer beam or pulse for better overall penetration to begin with unless you're doing a PVP gimmick build.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:30
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Sard posted:I don't know why burst lasers aren't more popular. Similar fitting requirements, but as far as I know they do just a smidge less DPS in exchange for much better heat and WEP efficiency and maybe also better penetration?
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Nov 17, 2015 21:34
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Huh, good to know. I guess I haven't noticed the hull difference because I usually do run burst lasers alongside kinetics, like my FGS has two medium and two small burst lasers, with a single large and two medium cannons on the ventral mounts. Chews up small ships, and punches through the shields to core out larger ones. Is there a better reference for this information than this topic on the official forums, then? It only lists shield damage and is probably outdated anyway.
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Nov 17, 2015 21:52
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Sard posted:Huh, good to know. I guess I haven't noticed the hull difference because I usually do run burst lasers alongside kinetics, like my FGS has two medium and two small burst lasers, with a single large and two medium cannons on the ventral mounts. Chews up small ships, and punches through the shields to core out larger ones. Is there a better reference for this information than this topic on the official forums, then? It only lists shield damage and is probably outdated anyway. In terms of how we know, it's basically a combination of looking at the in game descriptions/statistics of the various weapons and personally trying out various guns and seeing how they work. Burst lasers are actually reasonable in PvP due to the aforementioned prevalence of shields (since they're really good against shields) but NPC ships tend to have significantly less shields compared to hull than players do so they're less effective there because you spend comparatively more time shooting their hull than shields.
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Nov 17, 2015 23:08
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LCL-Dead posted:(I don't know poo poo about the FDL because I think it's ugly as gently caress) If you sought to anger me, you have succeeded I mean look at this stylish motherfucker: 
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Nov 17, 2015 23:37
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^^^i wish you could add cop lights, i would just listen to Starski and Hutch soundtrack while playing Those 8a modules are more expansive than an anaconda hull. 
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Nov 18, 2015 00:02
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Heh. Thanks for the answers. Im looking for a ship that doesn't require a rank grind, as I'm about to start power play and don't really want to do both at once until I have a credit cushion. Just want a solid, shooty ship to carry my rear end through Powerplay/imperial rank grinds until I've got the credits for a Conda or a Cutter. I like my vulture but I'd prefer to upgrade to something that plays/flies more like the large ships as practice. E: that said, probably a python then?
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Nov 18, 2015 00:38
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Toplowtech posted:Those 8a modules are more expansive than an anaconda hull. Wait until you start dealing with bulkheads, mirrored composites cost more than twice the bare hull  Vahalla posted:Heh. Thanks for the answers. Im looking for a ship that doesn't require a rank grind, as I'm about to start power play and don't really want to do both at once until I have a credit cushion. Just want a solid, shooty ship to carry my rear end through Powerplay/imperial rank grinds until I've got the credits for a Conda or a Cutter. I like my vulture but I'd prefer to upgrade to something that plays/flies more like the large ships as practice. The Python is, as others have said, an extremely versatile ship that's flexible enough to do a little bit of everything without much compromise. The one thing it absolutely excels at is, weirdly enough, cargo hauling since properly fitted it can carry as much as a Type-7 but with the ability to land on outposts.
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Nov 18, 2015 00:42
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If you can swing it the python is amazing at <<REDACTED>> runs since with a pair of C3 pulses and missile launchers you can earn some bounties on the ships that interdict you.
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Nov 18, 2015 00:49
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Vahalla posted:Heh. Thanks for the answers. Im looking for a ship that doesn't require a rank grind, as I'm about to start power play and don't really want to do both at once until I have a credit cushion. Just want a solid, shooty ship to carry my rear end through Powerplay/imperial rank grinds until I've got the credits for a Conda or a Cutter. I like my vulture but I'd prefer to upgrade to something that plays/flies more like the large ships as practice. The Python is a very good shooty ship that you can't go wrong with. The only other no-rank-grind, non-anaconda-sized, shooty big ship is the FDL, which is a lot less versatile than the Python.
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Nov 18, 2015 00:54
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Speaking of missile launchers. I'm still annoyed as gently caress at magazine capacity and the lack of size 3 launchers. Especially considering the physical models of the size 2 launchers with their 17 tubes. SciFi, the FDL looks like poo poo. I'm sorry. I love you but it looks like a stuffed turkey with a zit on top.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:02
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Rah! posted:The Python is a very good shooty ship that you can't go wrong with. The only other no-rank-grind, non-anaconda-sized, shooty big ship is the FDL, which is a lot less versatile than the Python.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:05
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The outpost landing alone means the python will probably always have a niche for any future [redacted] which require it, even after future ship releases and balance changes. It's just way too good in too many ways for a medium pad ship That said, a good A-fit costs 150-200 million, so keeping one around just 'cause will sting a bit once you're trying to scrape cash together for a reasonable cutter or corvette.
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Nov 18, 2015 01:21
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So as might have been evident before now, I am an unapologetic member of the Church of Pulse Laser Supremacy. On several different ships I tested all sorts of mixed variety builds and tried to assess which weapons were better for what things. The pulse lasers ended up being better for nearly everything and some people have backed that up with math or science or whatever, but the sum argument is that you are better off just packing nothing but pulse lasers so that you can output more total DPS for a ridiculously long time without having to worry about overheating or how much energy you have to spare from your already maxed out powerplant. In every single fight i got in with anyone, ever, I just pointed my pleb lasers at the offender and chewed out their shields with constant and sustained fire, won the sustained damage fight by leaps and bounds, and had them all lose shields and high wake or unplug. well except for one special snowflake who tried to low wake and got caught in my clipper's fat mass field and died so i guess there's that. I recommend it especially for RES farming! Watch how much more efficiently you murder big fat bounty ships! Look at all the energy space you have left over for shield boosters and poo poo! Go nutttttssssssssss
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Nov 18, 2015 03:31
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Kavros posted:So as might have been evident before now, I am an unapologetic member of the Church of Pulse Laser Supremacy. On several different ships I tested all sorts of mixed variety builds and tried to assess which weapons were better for what things. I'd like to offer a counterpoint:   beams it is kind of depressing how one-trick-pony the weapons setup is though.
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Nov 18, 2015 03:39
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timn posted:The outpost landing alone means the python will probably always have a niche for any future [redacted] which require it, even after future ship releases and balance changes. It's just way too good in too many ways for a medium pad ship tbh if you're already willing to grind the 600 million for a reasonably fit cutter the 200 million you have tied up in a python won't even warrant a footnote in the paperwork your family/loved ones/landlord will file to have you involuntarily committed
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Nov 18, 2015 04:02
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Kavros posted:
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Nov 18, 2015 04:11
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PULSE LASERS
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Mercurius posted:I think it's because pulse lasers are probably a little too good at doing hull damage combined with their absurdly good capacitor use:damage ratio. I think it's only going to get more pronounced with SCBs making GBS threads out so much heat, Beams are going to be unheard of pretty soon.
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Nov 18, 2015 04:26
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Unsure this has been posted before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZAyaGyhiQ0 This made my day.
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Nov 18, 2015 05:05
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I think it's only going to get more pronounced with SCBs making GBS threads out so much heat, Beams are going to be unheard of pretty soon.
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Nov 18, 2015 05:14
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Mercurius posted:Given that hull reinforcements are also going to be more prevalent I'm expecting more use of kinetics, particularly multi-cannons. On a related note, Frontier, please, add C3/4 multi-cannons and C4 pulse/burst/beam lasers as well while you're at it. Please. I need this. They even already have the models (at least for the C4) in the form of the dual autocannons that are used on the stations. Probably depends on if the "stack 2A/B SCBs in every slot" makes it into the meta or not. If the buff to their regen is still better than hull reinforcements...
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Nov 18, 2015 05:44
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Probably depends on if the "stack 2A/B SCBs in every slot" makes it into the meta or not. If the buff to their regen is still better than hull reinforcements... I stacked a bunch of 4A's in a Corvette and they worked without having fire off heatsinks. However, FDev is addressing this making sure its not the next meta. If smaller SCB (lighter) and less heat, provide additive amounts of shield replenishment equal or greater to their bigger counterparts, its not balanced. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=200980&p=3112931#post3112931 quote:Hello Commanders!
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Nov 18, 2015 05:50
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no_recall posted:I stacked a bunch of 4A's in a Corvette and they worked without having fire off heatsinks. Small favors, although I still don't know why they don't just make them unique and increase the ammo size instead of continually trying to turn it into a trap option.
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Nov 18, 2015 05:55
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:Small favors, although I still don't know why they don't just make them unique and increase the ammo size instead of continually trying to turn it into a trap option.
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Nov 18, 2015 06:09
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I like how they've spent like a couple of months dreaming up an SCB nerf then immediately walk it back. When the whole loving thing could have been fixed in 5 minutes "Module Limit: 1". One day developers will stop trying to be clever and just fix something instead of tip toeing around.
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Nov 18, 2015 06:29
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https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=200980&page=39&p=3112503&viewfull=1#post3112503quote:Hello Commander Alexander the Grape!
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Nov 18, 2015 06:55
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I still kinda wish they just hadn't introduced Health Potions at all. Nobody asked for them, then they came out of the blue in a patch and have been loving up the game ever since.
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Nov 18, 2015 08:52
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People were asking for shields to regenerate faster so that you could stay in CZs and RES for longer, SCBs were the solution they introduced. It wasn't great.
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Nov 18, 2015 09:42
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RabidWeasel posted:People were asking for shields to regenerate faster so that you could stay in CZs and RES for longer, SCBs were the solution they introduced. It wasn't great.
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Nov 18, 2015 10:38
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Ursine Catastrophe posted:I'd like to offer a counterpoint: Yeah especially considering how i love the feel of beams and would use them in a heartbeat if they weren't so depressingly against-the-grain for how the entire game's capacitor power supply structure is set up. Pulses are the best weapon but they are one of the game's very very few sound design annoyances. I would have preferred it if the game was setup with different types of weapon hardpoints. Imagine if some hardpoints can only fit certain weapons or classes of weapons, some hardpoints can only fit turrets or fixed weapons, etc, but each came with their own inherent capacitor supply.
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Nov 18, 2015 14:40
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Kavros posted:Imagine if some hardpoints can only fit certain weapons or classes of weapons, some hardpoints can only fit turrets or fixed weapons, etc, but each came with their own inherent capacitor supply. I was thinking a while back that this would be the best possible way of making weapon loadouts and ship selection more interesting. Then we would be able to have a wide range of weapon strengths balanced by the fact that you can't just fill your ship up with a ton of the same weapon. Combat-focused ships would have more flexible hardpoints or generally allow more powerful weapons such as beams and PACs. Then the relative strength of each weapon no longer needs to be balanced against every other weapon and suddenly missiles can be powerful again etc.
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Nov 18, 2015 15:22
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