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I love that album and it's by one of my favorite bands but it keeps getting linked on every page. edit: Ooh, new page. So now I'm guilty of the crime too. Anyway, here's a question: what happened to Ungoliant? She had her little fight with Morgoth, retreated to some mountain range and a couple centuries later Beren repainted that place in spider innards - did he kill her, or does she just disappear from the story altogether? anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Nov 14, 2015 |
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Nov 14, 2015 17:01
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It's OK, that's the best crime to be guilty of.  Ungoliant either hosed off to the darkness outside the world, or ate herself. Which one it really was, it's not clarified anywhere.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:13
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euphronius posted:Fingolfin was able to wound Morgoth even and he could never heal. People never remember the state Morgoth was in when he fought Fingolfin. I remember because it's one of my favorite bits from The Sil. "In Angband Morgoth forged himself a great crown of iron, and he called himself King of the World. In token of this he set the Silmarils in his crown. His hands were burned black by the touch of those hallowed jewels, and black they remained ever after; nor was he ever free from the pain of the burning, and the anger of the pain. That crown he never took from his head, though its weight became a deadly weariness." How effectively could you fight and wield a weapon with like, 4th-degree burns from the most holy artifacts in existence? Morgoth is incarnate which means you can hurt him but a limp is far from being anything even vaguely life-threatening and Fingolfin only accomplished that with his dying breath. His normal attacks did no lasting damage. I love the passage I quoted because, in all of The Silmarillion, nothing encapsulates the character of Melkor more than those sentences. At least to me.
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Nov 14, 2015 17:20
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Both my wife and I are Tolkien fans, but up until now our only copies of the books have been dog-eared trade paperbacks we bought ages ago. I would like to get a set of hardbacks for the Lord of the Rings (if there is one that includes the Hobbit too that would be great, but not required). I know there are tons of options here but unfortunately lots of places like Amazon seem to cross-pollinate reviews of different editions of the same book, so it's hard to pick out a good one. I am sure someone here has a set they would recommend? One caveat - I'm trying to get a set that isn't matched the movie, because it drives my wife crazy when books are recovered/republished to emphasize their movie adaptation.
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Nov 16, 2015 20:09
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What do you guys think of Lord of the Rings pinball and it's stupid hard Valinor mode
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Nov 16, 2015 20:23
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Ashcans posted:Both my wife and I are Tolkien fans, but up until now our only copies of the books have been dog-eared trade paperbacks we bought ages ago. I would like to get a set of hardbacks for the Lord of the Rings (if there is one that includes the Hobbit too that would be great, but not required). I know there are tons of options here but unfortunately lots of places like Amazon seem to cross-pollinate reviews of different editions of the same book, so it's hard to pick out a good one. I am sure someone here has a set they would recommend? One caveat - I'm trying to get a set that isn't matched the movie, because it drives my wife crazy when books are recovered/republished to emphasize their movie adaptation. I have the single volume 50th anniversary edition and it rocks (although apparently there's a DELUXE 50th that's bound in real leather). Understated design and well made - ribbon bookmark, big foldout maps, slip case. The 3 volume 60th anniversary edition came out recently and is probably good too, if you're set on having them separate. Dividing them up in to three volumes wasn't Tolkien's idea - it was forced on him by the publishers, he thought splitting it up was unnatural and that the smaller volumes didn't function as well as their own stories. Honestly I'd just go to a Barnes & Noble, they usually have several editions of LOTR on hand. Mostly you'll just want to feel the binding and paper quality.
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Nov 17, 2015 03:43
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Ashcans posted:Both my wife and I are Tolkien fans, but up until now our only copies of the books have been dog-eared trade paperbacks we bought ages ago. I would like to get a set of hardbacks for the Lord of the Rings (if there is one that includes the Hobbit too that would be great, but not required). I know there are tons of options here but unfortunately lots of places like Amazon seem to cross-pollinate reviews of different editions of the same book, so it's hard to pick out a good one. I am sure someone here has a set they would recommend? One caveat - I'm trying to get a set that isn't matched the movie, because it drives my wife crazy when books are recovered/republished to emphasize their movie adaptation. It's not hard bound but I'd throw in a vote for the vinyl bound edition: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00OH...2B4RRDC9SKTZSK2 Edit: wow amazon is weird with multiple editions. The cover is grey suede over vinyl with a sewn binding. It sounds kind of lame but my wife and I found it striking enough in person to buy it as soon as we saw it in B&N despite having several other copies already. It's also my favorite edition to hold and read. It's actually the only single volume edition I find comfortable to just sit on the couch with. sunday at work fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Nov 17, 2015 |
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Nov 17, 2015 15:04
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Prolonged Priapism posted:I have the single volume 50th anniversary edition and it rocks (although apparently there's a DELUXE 50th that's bound in real leather). U I have the deluxe 50th single-volume and it's great. I bought it to replace my old tattered 1960's-era American mass market paperbacks and it's pretty much perfect for that, big foldout map and all. I'd also recommend the anniversary edition of The Hobbit with Tolkien's original illustrations, if you can find it. I think this is one area where it's worth it to go to a bookstore, though. As you say, there's so much cross pollination of reviews for slightly different editions that it's pretty much impossible to figure out exactly what you're getting without looking in person. If hardbacks would blow your budget, I'd say look for the paperbacks with Tolkien's line drawings as the covers. Those were the mass-market edition right before the movies came out so they'd probably have the longest remaining lifespan, and plus you get Tolkien's drawings as the covers. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 05:40
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NikkolasKing posted:"In Angband Morgoth forged himself a great crown of iron, and he called himself King of the World. In token of this he set the Silmarils in his crown. His hands were burned black by the touch of those hallowed jewels, and black they remained ever after; nor was he ever free from the pain of the burning, and the anger of the pain. That crown he never took from his head, though its weight became a deadly weariness." Melkor is a typical goon in a well. EDIT: Smoking Crow posted:What do you guys think of Lord of the Rings pinball and it's stupid hard Valinor mode The what now?
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Nov 18, 2015 16:53
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SirPhoebos posted:Melkor is a typical goon in a well. Lord of the Rings pinball, it came out in 2003 To reach Valinor and hang out with Manwe you have to get all the gifts of the elves by collecting all the rings of dwarves, men and elves, complete all the multiballs (cross the bridge of Khazad-Dum, win Helm's Deep and restore the throne of Gondor), complete There and Back Again mode and write the Hobbit (this can only be done after you destroy the ring). Once you do that, you have to do it all over again and then destroy the ring once more. Then you go to Valinor and Manwe gives you the gift of multiball It's stupid hard and will usually take over an hour of play, which is a long rear end time to play pinball Smoking Crow fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 17:21
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Smoking Crow posted:Lord of the Rings pinball, it came out in 2003 So it's pinball for wizards?
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Nov 18, 2015 17:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So it's pinball for wizards? The technical name for a special mode earned by completing all the objectives is a "wizard mode." Lord of the Rings has the wizardest of wizard modes
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Nov 18, 2015 17:39
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Smoking Crow posted:The technical name for a special mode earned by completing all the objectives is a "wizard mode." Lord of the Rings has the wizardest of wizard modes
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Nov 18, 2015 17:50
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I am not a pin person but one of my friends is super into it and i love hearing him talk about how weird and dated machines are as soon as they come out. Apparently the current hotness in the pinball world is rob zombie pinball, which apparently pumps dragula when you are in multiball or something.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:15
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Thanks for the recommendations! I agree that getting to a physical store is probably a good idea, but the ones immediately around me are small stores that have had very little selection. I guess I need to make time for a trip to a larger one. I'll definitely keep my eye out for those editions. I'm not dedicated to a three-book set over a single volume when it really comes to it, I was just thinking along the lines of upgrading our current versions, which are separate. No reason to stick with it though of the single volumes are quality.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:27
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Is The Last Ringbearer actually any good?
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Nov 20, 2015 14:09
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The very opening is a bit slow while it gets into its stride of deconstructing things and building them back up again, then it gets absolutely hilarious for a good long while once you start travelling round Middle-Earth and the author's merrily poking fun at everything in LotR (but not mean-spiritedly, it's clearly born of love), but then it ends up spending far too much time in Umbar and in the last quarter it runs out of things to poke fun at and degenerates rapidly into just a third-rate spy novel with Tolkien trappings. Go in expecting high literature and you'll be disappointed, but if you don't mind limiting your expectations to "a drat good laugh", you'll have fun with it. For what it is, it's great.
Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Nov 20, 2015 |
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Nov 20, 2015 14:19
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Trin Tragula posted:The very opening is a bit slow while it gets into its stride of deconstructing things and building them back up again, then it gets absolutely hilarious for a good long while once you start travelling round Middle-Earth and the author's merrily poking fun at everything in LotR (but not mean-spiritedly, it's clearly born of love), but then it ends up spending far too much time in Umbar and in the last quarter it runs out of things to poke fun at and degenerates rapidly into just a third-rate spy novel with Tolkien trappings. Go in expecting high literature and you'll be disappointed, but if you don't mind limiting your expectations to "a drat good laugh", you'll have fun with it. For what it is, it's great. I started on it, I really like it so far. I love reading about irrigation systems and the obvious Aral sea reference.
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Nov 20, 2015 14:38
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sunday at work posted:It's not hard bound but I'd throw in a vote for the vinyl bound edition: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00OH...2B4RRDC9SKTZSK2 I had the same reaction as you when I found that edition in the book section of Wal-Mart, of all places. Had to have it, and I love the way it looks and feels. The design on the cover is embossed into the suede and looks really good, especially the gold parts. It's thick enough that the title is written horizontally on the spine so it looks great on the shelf as well. I got this version of The Hobbit to act as a pair with it.
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Nov 20, 2015 17:54
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Zonekeeper posted:I had the same reaction as you when I found that edition in the book section of Wal-Mart, of all places. Had to have it, and I love the way it looks and feels. The design on the cover is embossed into the suede and looks really good, especially the gold parts. It's thick enough that the title is written horizontally on the spine so it looks great on the shelf as well. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that edition in a store to handle - although I did find a number of other versions and eliminated them from the running, so that's something. I'm pretty tempted to order that version online on the basis of the recommendations here. Could you give me any idea of how big it is? One of the things about single volumes is that some of them seem pretty awkward for actually reading - I had a single-volume paperback that was really short and immensely thick that just felt funny to hold.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:35
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I'm reading Tolkein's translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and really enjoying it! And I don't normally care for poetry much. Specifically, I have this volume: http://www.amazon.com/Gawain-Green-Knight-Pearl-Orfeo/dp/0345277600 Came with a set I have that also includes The Tolkein Reader, The Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales. Is there any analysis/scholarship out there on the (possible) influence of Arthurian legend on The Lord of the Rings? Tolkein was surely steeped in it, and given the intention of LotR to be a mythology of Britain I'm fascinated by the idea that he would have attempted to link it to existing Arthurian mythology.
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Nov 24, 2015 19:37
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my bony fealty posted:I'm reading Tolkein's translation of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and really enjoying it! And I don't normally care for poetry much. Specifically, I have this volume: My sense of it is that he wasn't too keen on it. a) It was an obvious target, and b) there already existed a thoroughly developed mythos. Besides, Arthur was a pre-Anglo-Saxon Celtic hero blended with a medieval/Romance sensibility, neither of which was his bread and butter; he was more fascinated with the Anglo-Saxon period/culture/language, and so his interest lay in creating a uniquely Anglo-Saxon mythos to counterbalance the existing Arthurian legend. Something to slot between Hengest & Horsa and Harold Godwinson.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:16
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my bony fealty posted:Is there any analysis/scholarship out there on the (possible) influence of Arthurian legend on The Lord of the Rings? Tolkein was surely steeped in it, and given the intention of LotR to be a mythology of Britain I'm fascinated by the idea that he would have attempted to link it to existing Arthurian mythology.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:28
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Ashcans posted:Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that edition in a store to handle - although I did find a number of other versions and eliminated them from the running, so that's something. I'm pretty tempted to order that version online on the basis of the recommendations here. Could you give me any idea of how big it is? One of the things about single volumes is that some of them seem pretty awkward for actually reading - I had a single-volume paperback that was really short and immensely thick that just felt funny to hold. 1,248 grams. 155mm deep, 58mm thick, 216mm tall. It's comparable in size and weight to a hard bound US edition of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows (it's about 100 grams heavier but 15mm shorter and 10mm less depth). Like I said, it's actually the only single volume I find comfortable to sit with and read. Images: http://imgur.com/a/T9rRr sunday at work fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 22:33
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my bony fealty posted:Is there any analysis/scholarship out there on the (possible) influence of Arthurian legend on The Lord of the Rings? Tolkein was surely steeped in it, and given the intention of LotR to be a mythology of Britain I'm fascinated by the idea that he would have attempted to link it to existing Arthurian mythology. The Arthurian legends are a mix of Celtic and medieval French influences. Tolkien conceived Middle Earth partly as an artificial Anglo-Saxon mythology, (since we know very little about Saxon religion or myth historically) so he avoided including anything obviously Arthurian.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:11
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I don't remember how important Aragorn's sword was in regards to his kingship or whatever. I remember that they reforge it in Rivendell before "the ring goes south" and he stops calling himself strider and takes on Aragorn fully. But it wasn't a super big deal like how getting Excalibur made Arthur the king. It was important, but not defining. So I guess that answers my question.
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Nov 27, 2015 19:42
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SHISHKABOB posted:I don't remember how important Aragorn's sword was in regards to his kingship or whatever. I remember that they reforge it in Rivendell before "the ring goes south" and he stops calling himself strider and takes on Aragorn fully. But it wasn't a super big deal like how getting Excalibur made Arthur the king. It was important, but not defining. So I guess that answers my question. The significance is that it was Elendil's sword, one that had already hurt Sauron, and one that he would recognize and thus fear the wielder. TheHoodedClaw fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Nov 28, 2015 |
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Nov 28, 2015 04:07
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And magic/significant swords weren't something unique to Arthurian or Carolingian legend; Beowulf had Hrunting, Kullervo had his proto-Gurthang, etc.
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Nov 28, 2015 05:32
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It seemed to me that the sword, not only in the context of the story but to the characters themselves, was simply an important symbol. A sign, "This is the King's sword," but not the cause of his authority; accepting the sword meant accepting his role as King, and that was the important part. Note, though, one of the best little scenes: In Flotsam and Jetsam, Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas meet up with Merry and Pippin, and sit down for a smoke and to catch each other up. As Aragorn stretches himself out, Pippin declares that Strider has returned, to which he replies: "He has never been away." Some time later, he explains that he intends to make "Strider" his formal house name, only done up fancy so people don't get upset.
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Nov 28, 2015 13:01
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I do love those two moments, because they both have two of my favourite subtle little moments within bigger little scenes (ahem).quote:In Flotsam and Jetsam, Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas meet up with Merry and Pippin, and sit down for a smoke and to catch each other up. As Aragorn stretches himself out, Pippin declares that Strider has returned, to which he replies: "He has never been away." It goes like this. quote:They went out and seated themselves upon the piled stones before the gateway. They could see far down into the valley now; the mists were lifting and floating away upon the breeze. I love that, as a little reminder that what Aragorn intends to do is far more than just to win a few battles or take over Minas Tirith; and that although Arnor is at the moment something of a quiet backwater, it wasn't always like that and Aragorn is well aware of it. Later: quote:Then Aragorn entered first and the others followed. And there at the door were two guards in the livery of the Citadel: one tall, but the other scarce the height of a boy; and when he saw them he cried aloud in surprise and joy. I remember how when I was younger his little hedge, "if that be ever established" caught my eye; a telling little hint that even when we've just had the great eucatastrophe of Aragorn sailing in to save the day at the Pelennor Fields, he's still very aware that the situation remains extremely grim and there's a very good chance they're all going to die very soon.
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Nov 28, 2015 20:25
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Yeah he's extremely politically sensitive at that point and iirc even sets his camp outside the walls.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:24
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Well yeah but also Eomer and even Imrahil have as strong claims as Aragorn.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:27
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Eomer? What?
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Nov 29, 2015 01:45
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Yeah I meant Faramir.
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Nov 29, 2015 01:51
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Weren't the stewards originally the lords of Minas Tirith or something? I thought Faramir got confirmed in that or some other stuff, anyway. But if anything it showed the stewards were almost ridiculously faithful that even Denethor would have probably had to get the Ring to start calling himself "King".
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Nov 29, 2015 11:33
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Nessus posted:Weren't the stewards originally the lords of Minas Tirith or something? I thought Faramir got confirmed in that or some other stuff, anyway. But if anything it showed the stewards were almost ridiculously faithful that even Denethor would have probably had to get the Ring to start calling himself "King".
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Nov 29, 2015 12:06
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So I think there's something to be said in the fact that Tolkien focused on the Children of Húrin after having finished the LotR. Having read the appendix in said book it comes across that it was clearly the most complete of his unfinished drafts, the appendix mentions his other two developed stories to be Beren and Luthien and Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin. Yet it's also by far somehow the bleakest of those drafts. Beren and Luthien is a straight up success and while the Fall of Gondolin is very bad it results in the ultimate victory over Morgoth. The Children of Húrin on the other hand is pretty much all around bleak resulting in the destruction of an elf kingdom and the last two strongholds of Edain. The victory over Glaurung is pretty hollow ultimately even if it's clearly a good thing. Why would Tolkien focus on what seems to be the most negative of his legends?
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Nov 29, 2015 20:27
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why are americans obsessed with happy endings
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Nov 29, 2015 20:32
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Hahaha. You got me! But really I don't know. I had once considered myself to be a pessimistic person and then I moved to Europe and I've learned that that was far from the case. Perhaps there's something to be said for the fact that negativity tends to be more interesting. The Empire Strikes Back is generally considered the best of that series and it definitely does not end well for the heroes. So maybe there was a similar pull here? I can't say that I personally find Turin's story more interesting that Tuor's or Beren's. They're all pretty different overall and have specific characteristics that sets them apart. I think ultimately I'd of liked a fleshed out Fall of Gondolin story since it strikes me as so much more mystical.
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Nov 29, 2015 20:36
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Hogge Wild posted:why are americans obsessed with happy endings
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Nov 29, 2015 20:41
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