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Robiben
Jul 19, 2006

Life is...weird

Jenner posted:

I expected a gayer game than this.

Don't worry, Tumblr, Deviantart and even the Steam Community Hub has you covered...

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BobTheJanitor
Jun 28, 2003

Robiben posted:

Personally it makes the choice harder to make. A quick example of an easy choice I can think of is Mass Effect 2's suicide mission where you can make "perfect" choices and save everyone. I feel like in some other games its easy to make the right choice because the outcome is generally always good. Not saying ME2 is wrong for going this route, both games just have different ideas regarding choice.

Pretty sure this is why the split on endings is fairly even in the stats screen. I think it would be an easy bet that if there was an "The continuing relationship of Max and Chloe is fairyland where everyone is not dead" ending it would be been far out ahead of the other "bad" ending. But because both endings have obvious downsides there is no "right" choice.

I just really don't think they earned the chance to ask that question, though. Contrast it with the episode 4 alt-Chloe question of whether you help her with her request to end her life. That one was fully earned by the narrative, and it was an agonizing choice to make. The episode 5 final choice that should be the peak of the game just elicits a reaction of '... wait, what?' I'm all for tough, thought provoking choices in games. But the narrative has to be sturdy enough to think about. The problem here is that the story of episode 5 isn't well designed enough to stand up to even basic questions.

Like, if they really wanted to go with a tragic ending, they shouldn't have made it a choice. If the message is 'you can't fight fate' then clearly the last thing you want to do is give your players the option to do that anyway (and then completely fail to deliver on any follow up to that). Structure the narrative such that the tragedy is inevitable and unavoidable, and then turn the emotion up for the final scene and milk it for all it's worth. Basically, if you can't be as great as The Walking Dead S1, at least copy them thematically. That had plenty of tragedy (which I won't spoil here, since that isn't that thread, but if you didn't know that TWD had tragedy in it, uh spoilers I guess?) and its hard choices were all very black and white, unavoidable problems that clearly had to be dealt with in the moment. No wiggle room and no narrative confusion like 'why do we have to make this choice right now?' or 'how can the character actually know that this is even a choice to make?' and so on.

Also, on the ending split, I'm fairly certain that it actually counts twice if you go back and watch the other ending. Since I'm sure 99% of people do just that, it's not a very good barometer for how good the final choice was. And even if it were, an even split can be used to justify all kinds of arguments, if you really wanted to: Both endings are great, and people can't decide which is better! Both endings are poo poo, and people can't decide which they hate more! Not really enough data to draw adequate conclusions.

Plom Bar
Jun 5, 2004

hardest time i ever done :(
If you play it in Collectible Mode, it won't track the choice and you still see the full ending. Beyond that, though, I am definitively aware of several people who have only seen the other endings through YouTube.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Robiben posted:

I can definitely see your point about the endings feeling weak. It could have gone in much grittier/darker directions and that's a valid story choice that could have made for some seriously thought provoking narrative. But LIS feels much lighter in general. Sure it deals with some heavy stuff like suicide and murder but it does it in a "teen fiction" kind of way. I don't think uber dark stuff would fit LIS even if it would be more interesting.

It wouldn't have had to have been darker or grittier to feel stronger - it just would have had to commit to anything. Maybe without Chloe around, you still have the visions and can focus on convincing people to start evacuating, so a lot of people are saved from the storm. If you save Chloe, show that there were in fact survivors, and that they are rebuilding, and maybe to some small extent which people survive (or at least which ones you see) depend on your previous actions. Both of these are significantly more positive while still hammering home the message that there are some things you can't change, but you can still be responsible for your own actions and effect the lives of the people you care about. Or it could have committed to the "time travel can actually fix your supernatural weather problems" idea without the "but by killing people you care about for reasons we aren't going to actually explain" and gone somewhere completely different.

Instead we get "it's better for everyone if you don't do get involved, but hey, you can choose to be okay with ruining everyone else's lives for your own benefit" as the only coherent message. The current ending is honestly way darker than what I proposed. Bad stuff may be happening, but at least you aren't directly responsible for it and can feel good about the decisions you made leading up to it as making the best of a bad situation.

You seem to think the endings aren't crushingly depressing already, but the "growth" you talk about is the character either learning to say "gently caress the world, all that matters is what I care about", or realizing that the world is better off without them getting involved and intentionally removing themselves from the equation. That's pretty dark, way darker than "sometimes bad things happen, and you can't stop them no matter how much you try or how much power you have, but the things you can do still matter and it's okay to find value and fight for it even when times are bad".


As an side, I would like to add that in every choice game I've played, the best ones where choices actually feel super meaningful have different endings, but don't let you choose them. The end of the game is often completely devoid of meaningful choice, sacrifice control at the end in favour of actual consequences, sending the message "You've chosen the ending you wanted through every choice you made throughout the rest of the game - now it's time to see the consequences" or something to that effect.

Again, it's about commitment. If the game really wanted you to choose between Chloe and Arcadia Bay, it should have started doing it a long time ago, beginning at episode 3 at the latest and peaking at the beginning of episode five, giving you the options to try and warn people in power of the storm and get people to evacuate, or bonding with Chloe and helping her investigate Rachel's death and find the murder who drugged Kate. Rather than the weaksauce we got, give us an ending where we successfully evacuate the town and escape from Jefferson... but don't have the pictures we took of our bonding experience, so Chloe is finally killed as she visits the dark room by herself and we can't do anything to stop it VS an ending where we help Chloe and discover Jefferson's plans and gently caress him up with the help of David... but then we're trapped in the Dark Room by the storm as it ravages the town. It's the same ending choice - save the people of the town, or save Chloe - but without feeling cheap and weak and tacked on, and notably without any big "OH BY THE WAY NOTHING ELSE MATTERED WHICH ENDING DID YOU WANT AGAIN?" choice tacked on right at the end.

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Nov 18, 2015

LoseHound
Nov 10, 2012
The nightmare Max callout is pretty empty in hindsight. "how dare you use your powers to cheat at life and make people like you!!!" even though Max's powers achieve nothing but that. Five extra days to say goodbye to the bestie you abandoned and assurance from the universe that "There was nothing you could do, it's d e s t i n y!" All at the price of trauma. It's weird. We can't save Chloe because the universe conspires to kill her one way or another, but the universe doesn't care about wiping a town off the map? Would Max speaking up in the bathroom have ruined everything somehow? The game asks you to just go with it, and it doesn't work for me.

Perhaps the game should've gone full JRPG and revealed that Max was given her powers by God in order to purge the human race. And then we fight God. and Kate Marsh.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

LoseHound posted:

The nightmare Max callout is pretty empty in hindsight. "how dare you use your powers to cheat at life and make people like you!!!" even though Max's powers achieve nothing but that. Five extra days to say goodbye to the bestie you abandoned and assurance from the universe that "There was nothing you could do, it's d e s t i n y!" All at the price of trauma. It's weird. We can't save Chloe because the universe conspires to kill her one way or another, but the universe doesn't care about wiping a town off the map? Would Max speaking up in the bathroom have ruined everything somehow? The game asks you to just go with it, and it doesn't work for me.

Perhaps the game should've gone full JRPG and revealed that Max was given her powers by God in order to purge the human race. And then we fight God. and Kate Marsh.

Basically, one of the main ideas they expressed through chapter 5 is "time is fragile." If Max uses her rewind power to change anything, time freaks out and crazy things happen. She changed time a ton in episode 5, which is what created the nightmare world. When she only does a little bit here or there, or one big change - as in the rest of the game - you get the storm. If Max does absolutely nothing with her power - that is, you're following the natural timeline - nothing happens.

E: I really strongly dislike this, incidentally.

King of Solomon fucked around with this message at 19:42 on Nov 18, 2015

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

King of Solomon posted:

Basically, one of the main ideas they expressed through chapter 5 is "time is fragile." If Max uses her rewind power to change anything, time freaks out and crazy things happen. She changed time a ton in episode 5, which is what created the nightmare world. When she only does a little bit here or there, or one big change - as in the rest of the game - you get the storm. If Max does absolutely nothing with her power - that is, you're following the natural timeline - nothing happens.

Except that's not true - what fixes everything isn't doing "nothing" with your powers, it's changing the past... again. It's going back in time and preventing yourself from learning how to use them or that you have them, which unlike saving Chloe is actually a huge paradox of the sort "time is fragile" usually warns about. In most fiction, messing with your own origin story is the single most hosed up thing you can do to time! Getting your powers is what happens in the "natural" timeline, and you have to explicitly use your "overwrite the past" powers to prevent the natural timeline from occurring in order to prevent the tornado. It doesn't prevent the tornado-vision or you overwriting alt-Max's memory in that timeline or bringing along a bunch of weird junk. It's just... weird.

I also thought the nightmare world was more a commentary on how much her power was damaging herself rather than "time", based on the headaches and disorientation and stuff it had caused in the past. (but I guess it wasn't, since that whole thing was dropped completely for the ending - you'd think going back and removing her ability to go back would be the sort of paradox that would give her a bloody nose at least!)

LoseHound posted:

We can't save Chloe because the universe conspires to kill her one way or another, but the universe doesn't care about wiping a town off the map? Would Max speaking up in the bathroom have ruined everything somehow? The game asks you to just go with it, and it doesn't work for me.
Don't forget that the one time you actually experience the tornado destroying the town, Chloe isn't even alive, and the one time you see the aftermath she still lives through it! So the tornado is definitely not part of some conspiracy to kill Chloe, that explanation really doesn't work at all. It's a completely disconnected side effect in the same way Chloe's accident post-dad-saving is, but way way stupider.

[spoiler]Perhaps the game should've gone full JRPG and revealed that Max was given her powers by God in order to purge the human race. And then we fight God. and Kate Marsh.[/quote]
Would have been a better ending than what we got.

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Nov 18, 2015

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

GlyphGryph posted:

Except that's not true - what fixes everything isn't doing "nothing" with your powers, it's changing the past... again. It's going back in time and preventing yourself from learning how to use them or that you have them, which unlike saving Chloe is actually a huge paradox of the sort "time is fragile" usually warns about. Getting your powers IS what happens in the "natural" timeline, and you have to explicitly use your "overwrite the past" powers to prevent the natural timeline from occurring in order to prevent the tornado. It doesn't prevent the tornado-vision or you overwriting alt-Max's memory in that timeline or bringing along a bunch of weird junk.

I also thought the nightmare world was more a commentary on how much her power was damaging herself rather than "time", based on the headaches and disorientation and stuff it had caused in the past. (but I guess it wasn't, since that whole thing was dropped completely for the ending - you'd think going back and removing her ability to go back would be the sort of paradox that would give her a bloody nose at least!)

In the natural timeline - that is, the timeline that happened before Max learned about her powers - Max did nothing. By going back in time again and doing nothing, you're returning things to normal.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


I think the nightmare sequences are actual fractured timelines that Max's consciousness is phasing in and out of, in the same way I believe that the opening lighthouse sequence isn't a daydream but the remnant of a previously altered timeline from an ur-Max that we never see.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

King of Solomon posted:

In the natural timeline - that is, the timeline that happened before Max learned about her powers - Max did nothing. By going back in time again and doing nothing, you're returning things to normal.

Except Max didn't do nothing - she went back in time. There is no timeline where Max does nothing, Max going back in time after Chloe gets shot is in fact the 'natural' sequence of events, until we forcefully create one by overwriting a chunk of history.

If you absolutely have to use time travel to make something happen or prevent something from happening, it's tough to call that thing "the natural timeline", imo, and that is literally the only way to get "dead chloe funeral" as an outcome.

exquisite tea posted:

I think the nightmare sequences are actual fractured timelines that Max's consciousness is phasing in and out of, in the same way I believe that the opening lighthouse sequence isn't a daydream but the remnant of a previously altered timeline from an ur-Max that we never see.

I've seen this, and does this imply that we're going to get potentially "overwritten" at some point in the future ourselves if it's true? That seems to be how it works. That would really double down on that futility ending, wouldn't it? "Not only did none of that happened, but you won't even remember any of that happening, the person you played as the entire game will poof into the aether and disappear".

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:16 on Nov 18, 2015

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

GlyphGryph posted:

Except Max didn't do nothing - she went back in time. There is no timeline where Max does nothing, Max going back in time after Chloe gets shot is in fact the 'natural' sequence of events, until we forcefully create one by overwriting a chunk of history.

If you absolutely have to use time travel to make something happen or prevent something from happening, it's tough to call that thing "the natural timeline", imo.

Let me clarify my terms, then. When I refer to the natural timeline, I'm referring to the series of events that would happen if Max never had her powers. No changes were made because no changes can be made. Before Max had her powers, Max sat in the corner of the bathroom and Chloe got shot. By returning to the bathroom and letting Chloe get shot, Max is returning to the natural state. That's why the tornado doesn't happen.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

King of Solomon posted:

Let me clarify my terms, then. When I refer to the natural timeline, I'm referring to what would happen if Max never had her powers. No changes were made because no changes can be made. Before Max had her powers, Max sat in the corner of the bathroom and Chloe got shot. By returning to the bathroom and letting Chloe get shot, Max is returning to the natural state. That's why the tornado doesn't happen.

The vision of the tornado happens before then, implying that the timeline where Chloe gets shot is one where she already has powers doesn't it? We don't erase the vision, after all. I mean, I think I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't make any sense to me at all. There is no timeline, none, that extends beyond the Chloe-in-the-bathroom scene where we don't use our powers, including the 'natural one'. It is absolutely just as dependent on us using our powers as the tornado-timeline, but it also involves creating a personal temporal paradox on top of it.

BobTheJanitor
Jun 28, 2003

I'm still waiting on the writer they tied up in the basement to break free and tell all of us about the original plot where the game didn't turn into a pile of cliches and dropped plot threads and heavy hand-of-the-author manipulation at the end.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


GlyphGryph posted:

Except Max didn't do nothing - she went back in time. There is no timeline where Max does nothing, Max going back in time after Chloe gets shot is in fact the 'natural' sequence of events, until we forcefully create one by overwriting a chunk of history.

If you absolutely have to use time travel to make something happen or prevent something from happening, it's tough to call that thing "the natural timeline", imo, and that is literally the only way to get "dead chloe funeral" as an outcome.


I've seen this, and does this imply that we're going to get potentially "overwritten" at some point in the future ourselves if it's true? That seems to be how it works. That would really double down on that futility ending, wouldn't it? "Not only did none of that happened, but you won't even remember any of that happening, the person you played as the entire game will poof into the aether and disappear".

I think every time Max jumps back through a photo it creates an alternate reality that continues to persist into the present. Some of them are logical and stable, such as the one we see at the end of Ep. 3, and some are deeply fractured. I think the evidence of this is suggested by the way Max snaps back into consciousness following the opening lighthouse sequence, in the same way we see her awaken disoriented from similar time jumps. Except in the case of Episode 1, it's a previous Max's consciousness that leaps out and leaves us with the beginning conditions for game, maybe because ur-Max concluded that she needed a selfie in Jefferson's class, who knows. Why do I think this? I just think it's a cool interpretation that explains certain phenomena like the prescient graffiti everywhere or the transparent deer thay only Max can see, or the fact that the lighthouse sequence seems to come before Max creates the temporal paradox that leads to the storm.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

GlyphGryph posted:

The vision of the tornado happens before then, implying that the timeline where Chloe gets shot is one where she already has powers doesn't it? We don't erase the vision, after all. I mean, I think I understand what you're trying to say, but it doesn't make any sense to me at all. There is no timeline, none, that extends beyond the Chloe-in-the-bathroom scene where we don't use our powers, including the 'natural one'. It is absolutely just as dependent on us using our powers as the tornado-timeline, but it also involves creating a personal temporal paradox on top of it.

The tornado vision at the very start of the game is one of the reasons I feel like the way they handled episode 5 is different from the original plan. I've posted about it a bunch already, so I won't get too far into it, but yeah, it's not clean. If you look at the original vision as being a really vague warning it kinda works, but it's iffy. And keep in mind, even in the Sacrifice Chloe choice, you don't get rid of your powers to our knowledge, you just undo your changes and stop using it (which is a slight, but important difference.) The epilogue is the closest thing we get to seeing what would naturally happen, and even that's not truly natural because Max has knowledge she shouldn't (notably about the Dark Room.)

The important takeaway from this is that saving Chloe is a change, and changes break the timeline. Undoing your changes - going back and letting Chloe die - will mend the cracks that your actions have created.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.
I think it makes sense, but it has some disturbing implications. In that case, Chloe dying isn't so much a natural timeline as a stable timeline somehow.

Oh man, imagine if the storm really does happen on it's own, and it isn't because of us, but all of this is ur-max's attempt to stop it and we finally figure out how to do it. Maybe we "snap back" because she's been busy arranging things so that Chloe gets shot, and in the "original" timeline this never even happened.

I'm imagining some 80-year old ur-Max finally figuring out how to set up a stable timeline after discovering her powers in old age, and deciding to go back and save the town from the tornado that struck it in her youth (remember in our original vision of reaching the lighthouse, we don't have any powers!), leaving hints so Chloe ends up in the bathroom, only for us to maintain a memory fragment of the lighthouse and allowing our younger selves to discover their powers early and gently caress it all up.

GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Nov 18, 2015

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

GlyphGryph posted:

I think it makes sense, but it has some disturbing implications. In that case, Chloe dying isn't so much a natural timeline as a stable timeline somehow.

Use whatever phrase you feel comfortable with. Considering the fragile time idea causes things to break when changes are made, either works as well as the other. I just like using "natural timeline" because it emphasizes that changes are the problem.

Pimpmust
Oct 1, 2008

GlyphGryph posted:

I think it makes sense, but it has some disturbing implications. In that case, Chloe dying isn't so much a natural timeline as a stable timeline somehow.

Oh man, imagine if the storm really does happen on it's own, and it isn't because of us, but all of this is ur-max's attempt to stop it and we finally figure out how to do it. Maybe we "snap back" because she's been busy arranging things so that Chloe gets shot, and in the "original" timeline this never even happened.

I'm imagining some 80-year old ur-Max finally figuring out how to set up a stable timeline after discovering her powers in old age, and deciding to go back and save the town from the tornado that struck it in her youth (remember in our original vision of reaching the lighthouse, we don't have any powers!), leaving hints so Chloe ends up in the bathroom, only for us to maintain a memory fragment of the lighthouse and allowing our younger selves to discover their powers early and gently caress it all up.

In LiS 2, we play as ur-Max, trying to puzzle together a timeline that definitely kills Chloe, failing at the end of each episode.

"Wait, what?! How did that stampeding herd of Elephants not kill her! I'll get you next time Chloe :argh:"

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.

Pimpmust posted:

In LiS 2, we play as ur-Max, trying to puzzle together a timeline that definitely kills Chloe, failing at the end of each episode.

"Wait, what?! How did that stampeding herd of Elephants not kill her! I'll get you next time Chloe :argh:"

It would be an incredible inversion. Instead of it seeming like reality has it out for her and kills her at every opportunity, it turns out reality is actually doing everything it can to keep her alive up to and including giving younger you seemingly random time travel powers, and we're the ones who are trying to kill her off.

You spend time sending texts to Nathan about how he should carry a gun for his own protection, then carefully nudging the car in the junkyard so that it causes the perfect ricochet when you hit the bumper, then messing with the rails so that Chloe will get stuck, then driving your own vehicle into hers as she drives down the road but only succeeding in paralyzing her, then sending Jefferson an anonymous text to immediately check the dark room tapes (leading to him murdering Chloe), and finally leaving a book in Warren's backpack of time travel stuff that prompts his stupid "oh you need to go back and kill Chloe!" outburst.

Each time, you are foiled again!

Fina
Feb 27, 2006

Shazbot!
It could've been neat if they somehow revealed or implied that the vision of the tornado Max had at the beginning of the game wasn't just a vision, she was literally there previously and this wasn't the first time she had attempted changing things. She has never been successful and keeps starting over, forgetting what she learned and treading the same path as a result. Her visions being fragments of those past experiences that eventually fudge the variables into a way that breaks the loop. The loop presumably being an outcome that she doesn't accept and travels back in time again to make things different.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.
Heck, we don't even know for sure if she breaks the loop in the "Save Arcadia" ending - after all, there's still that classroom photo and all it's tempting potential...

Fina
Feb 27, 2006

Shazbot!
Yeah, she still has a wall full of photos in her room that would be pretty tempting too.

exquisite tea
Apr 21, 2007

Carly shook her glass, willing the ice to melt. "You still haven't told me what the mission is."

She leaned forward. "We are going to assassinate the bad men of Hollywood."


Fina posted:

It could've been neat if they somehow revealed or implied that the vision of the tornado Max had at the beginning of the game wasn't just a vision, she was literally there previously and this wasn't the first time she had attempted changing things. She has never been successful and keeps starting over, forgetting what she learned and treading the same path as a result. Her visions being fragments of those past experiences that eventually fudge the variables into a way that breaks the loop. The loop presumably being an outcome that she doesn't accept and travels back in time again to make things different.

I mean, it is implied. There is a lot of textual evidence to support this interpretation which I have mentioned at length itt. It's just not explicitly stated that this is the case.

LoseHound
Nov 10, 2012

King of Solomon posted:

Basically, one of the main ideas they expressed through chapter 5 is "time is fragile." If Max uses her rewind power to change anything, time freaks out and crazy things happen. She changed time a ton in episode 5, which is what created the nightmare world. When she only does a little bit here or there, or one big change - as in the rest of the game - you get the storm. If Max does absolutely nothing with her power - that is, you're following the natural timeline - nothing happens.

E: I really strongly dislike this, incidentally.

The nightmare world was actually visually reminiscent of a Remember Me's brain worlds. That game also had stealth sections and a spinning searchlight setpiece as well. Anyway, the nightmare is extremely personal to Max's psychology, so the idea of several collapsed timelines to conveniently align in such a way that she is confronted with representations of her fears (Is she afraid of Samuel for some reason??) and insecurities is not very convincing to me. Also, the scene's directly called a nightmare.

By the way, anyone have an idea of what's up with the plane ride "Between Realities"? It has weird photo edges, yet it's not the result of a photo leap.


GlyphGryph posted:


Would have been a better ending than what we got.

If Max had just accepted her true self at the nightmare diner, she could have unlocked the power of her Persona, Belgian Waphilemon.

The Bee
Nov 25, 2012

Making his way to the ring . . .
from Deep in the Jungle . . .

The Big Monkey!

LoseHound posted:

If Max had just accepted her true self at the nightmare diner, she could have unlocked the power of her Persona, Hawt Dawg Man.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

LoseHound posted:

The nightmare world was actually visually reminiscent of a Remember Me's brain worlds. That game also had stealth sections and a spinning searchlight setpiece as well. Anyway, the nightmare is extremely personal to Max's psychology, so the idea of several collapsed timelines to conveniently align in such a way that she is confronted with representations of her fears (Is she afraid of Samuel for some reason??) and insecurities is not very convincing to me. Also, the scene's directly called a nightmare.

By the way, anyone have an idea of what's up with the plane ride "Between Realities"? It has weird photo edges, yet it's not the result of a photo leap.

You may be right. I'm not going to pretend that I've put a lot of thought into the exact nature of the nightmare world. I just know that things were really starting to break down shortly before that happened (like the photo edges in the plane ride, or Max's room being barely formed when she goes back to when she took her entry photo.) I'll probably wind up putting some more thought into that element when I get around to it in my replay, but for now all I've really got for the nightmare world is some vaguely-recollected surface level thoughts.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.
The plane ride borders were pretty normal? That was what it looked like from the very first time you polaroid jumped, there's always that background gunk indicating the edge of your influence.

Plom Bar
Jun 5, 2004

hardest time i ever done :(

LoseHound posted:

By the way, anyone have an idea of what's up with the plane ride "Between Realities"? It has weird photo edges, yet it's not the result of a photo leap.

It IS the result of a photo leap. First she leaps to the one photo taken earlier that day (for the sake of illustration, let's say that photo was taken at 9:00 am on Friday), and from there she leaps again to around 3:00 pm on Monday.

Present --> 9:00 am Friday --> 3:00 pm Monday

Max alerts David and turns in her photo, so her return trip looks like this:

3:00 pm Monday --> 9:00 am Friday --> Present.

The plane ride happens at 9:00 am Friday in the altered timeline.

King of Solomon
Oct 23, 2008

S S

Plom Bar posted:

It IS the result of a photo leap. First she leaps to the one photo taken earlier that day (for the sake of illustration, let's say that photo was taken at 9:00 am on Friday), and from there she leaps again to around 3:00 pm on Monday.

Present --> 9:00 am Friday --> 3:00 pm Monday

Max alerts David and turns in her photo, so her return trip looks like this:

3:00 pm Monday --> 9:00 am Friday --> Present.

The plane ride happens at 9:00 am Friday in the altered timeline.

...Huh, that makes sense. It would also explain why Max's room was so deteriorated when she dived back into it (because it's an even further dive than even Mr. Jefferson's class.) Good catch.

LoseHound
Nov 10, 2012

Plom Bar posted:

It IS the result of a photo leap. First she leaps to the one photo taken earlier that day (for the sake of illustration, let's say that photo was taken at 9:00 am on Friday), and from there she leaps again to around 3:00 pm on Monday.

Present --> 9:00 am Friday --> 3:00 pm Monday

Max alerts David and turns in her photo, so her return trip looks like this:

3:00 pm Monday --> 9:00 am Friday --> Present.

The plane ride happens at 9:00 am Friday in the altered timeline.

Oh, that makes sense. I forgot it was a leap within a leap.


King of Solomon posted:

You may be right. I'm not going to pretend that I've put a lot of thought into the exact nature of the nightmare world. I just know that things were really starting to break down shortly before that happened (like the photo edges in the plane ride, or Max's room being barely formed when she goes back to when she took her entry photo.) I'll probably wind up putting some more thought into that element when I get around to it in my replay, but for now all I've really got for the nightmare world is some vaguely-recollected surface level thoughts.

I was secretly hoping the game would go full batshit for the ending, so I was a little disappointed when I realized we probably weren't collapsing time into a single point and about to meet Rachel or get pelted by dead Chloes in the Polaroid Void or something goofy.

Like, just replace the Max and Chloe Memorial Walkway with wacky Chloe deaths. Newspaper blows in her face, she trips and falls off the trail. Walks into the forest, gets trampled by frightened deer (symbolic!). Sneezes and farts at the same time, explodes.

GlyphGryph
Jun 23, 2013

Down came the glitches and burned us in ditches and we slept after eating our dead.
That part of the dream was super dumb and that definitely would have improved it. (also featung a lampshaded bottle collection, except this during during a crappy nonsense stealth section, oh boy! blech)

SamBishop
Jan 10, 2003

I finished this game two weeks ago and I cannot loving stop thinking about it. The characters, the music, the world, the art style, the way they messed with the previous scenes toward the end... all of it was so, so interesting to me, despite my hatred of hipster culture. Some of the music in the soundtrack was so firmly embedded in my brain that I had to listen to it more. I never expected that.

The fact that this thread is still going, though, makes me so much happier than the game did because it means it's impacted people - positively or negatively - enough that they want to keep that conversation going.

Fina
Feb 27, 2006

Shazbot!
Yeah, the game had some great soundtrack picks. This one in particular had me looking it up immediately after I finished the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwpvMlyFDTs

SamBishop
Jan 10, 2003

Fina posted:

Yeah, the game had some great soundtrack picks. This one in particular had me looking it up immediately after I finished the game:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwpvMlyFDTs

Yep, that's what broke me too and made me start looking stuff up. It has a really, REALLY great build-up that I thought was just something made for the game, but boy does it fit. alt-j's track is now apparently permanently stuck in my head, and I listened to it as I was stuck in traffic on the way home, but I don't give a fuuuuuuuuck anymore, because I'm home, it's the weekend, and "I get hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh".

Actually, gently caress it, this is a pretty great video in its own right:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNYjOVo5IEw

RightClickSaveAs
Mar 1, 2001

Tiny animals under glass... Smaller than sand...


The music selection was spot on. Some of it really seems like it was written for the game.

This one stuck with me the most for some reason, its got a melancholy to it that really fit in, even though I can't really remember where exactly it was used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nC8WjPFnGU

This was my favorite adventure game of the year, easy, and was a good step forward in the evolution of the genre.

Plom Bar
Jun 5, 2004

hardest time i ever done :(
It's sort of weird to explain, but Undertale is my Game of the Year for 2015, but Life is Strange ranks higher in my top games of all time.

And on the subject of the soundtrack, Mountains by Message To Bears is my personal favorite, and remembering the scene that it accompanies always gets me a little emotional.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

It's a shame I ended up disliking the ending as much as I did because other wise it would easily have been one of my favourite games of the year.

wyoming
Jun 7, 2010

Like a television
tuned to a dead channel.

RightClickSaveAs posted:

The music selection was spot on. Some of it really seems like it was written for the game.

This one stuck with me the most for some reason, its got a melancholy to it that really fit in, even though I can't really remember where exactly it was used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nC8WjPFnGU

This was my favorite adventure game of the year, easy, and was a good step forward in the evolution of the genre.

I think It's music on the way to the diner in the second episode, definitely one of the bus songs anyway.

The Sparklehorse song is probably my favourite of the bunch, while I do really love Sparklehorse, it's like, the least punk rock you can get. (It's what they dance to in Chloe's room in the first episode)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Gzly1HGeo

Of songs I learned about from the game, Obstacles, definitely has that perfect fit feel for the game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0VQOfvTviA
The good ending music. :allears:

Definitely my top game of the year/one of my favs in general.

Sakurazuka
Jan 24, 2004

NANI?

José Gonzalez is always a good sign of quality music direction, like the first time you get to Mexico in Red Dead Revolver.

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VagueRant
May 24, 2012
This game and Tales From The Borderlands definitely made it a great year for licensed music in vidja games.

Still confused that this one (so good!) was never actually in the game though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSvpd2jiUO8

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