Guavanaut posted:

Generally I'm uneasy with the idea of members of the public open carrying assault weapons and wearing paramilitary costumes in urban areas.
If the threat is legitimately that great, call the armed forces and admit that it's come to that, don't sneak in domestic ops through a semantic back door.

The police are supposed to work within the community and execute warrants by a judge or magistrate as members of the public, the army are supposed to occupy and secure areas and neutralize threats, and a blurring of the lines between the two has generally set a dangerous precedent elsewhere, with the police being regarded more as occupiers than folks you can talk to.
Whether that's more or less dangerous a precedent than domestic troop operations is debatable, but it does at least maintain the separation and avoids the warrior cop mindset.



Then again police-as-public has generally been far more blurred in parts of the UK outside the British mainland :cryingmrtayto: but I'm not sure that's the best path for the mainland to follow.

Exclamation Marx posted:

JFairfax posted:

mlmp08 posted:

Without knowing all the laws about using military as police in the UK, that sounds like a terrible idea. It would require special military units on alert at all times trained in domestic law with special ROE who know the area well via regular patrols without so much combat gear who know and talk to local law enforcement and-- waitaminute I just described police with body armor and rifles who respond to special situations.

Militarization of the police is a problem but the answer isn't to literally turn the police into military.

mlmp08 posted:

Without knowing all the laws about using military as police in the UK, that sounds like a terrible idea. It would require special military units on alert at all times trained in domestic law with special ROE who know the area well via regular patrols without so much combat gear who know and talk to local law enforcement and-- waitaminute I just described police with body armor and rifles who respond to special situations.

Militarization of the police is a problem but the answer isn't to literally turn the police into military.

Zeroisanumber posted:

I've been using dumb hyper-patriotic FB meme images to motherfuck chickenhawk conservatives all day and it's been just the best!

Zeroisanumber posted:

I've been using dumb hyper-patriotic FB meme images to motherfuck chickenhawk conservatives all day and it's been just the best!

JFairfax posted:

JFairfax posted:

meanwhile, in Lebanon...

MariusLecter posted:

JFairfax posted:

Dr. Killjoy posted:

Well at least someone's trying to counteract the bullshit on imgur however infantile they may be.

Guavanaut posted:

There's precedent in deploying troops in NI, which went over about as well as you'd expect, but I really don't think giving the RUC bigger guns and having them mall-ninja all over the place would have gone over any better. Probably even worse.

On the mainland there's long precedent of troops being used for disaster relief and for emergency services when firefighters are on strike, usually ones from the local area. Not in 'active' roles though.

The problem with SWAT is a tendency towards mission creep. I understand the aversion to putting yourself in harm's way, but they were supposed to be for high stakes hostage crises and active shooters, then someone says "I have to serve this warrant for minor drug possession but he has a prior for punching someone, I don't want to get punched. Wait, let's send SWAT" and the next thing you know there's a baby on fire and an old woman in bed shot dead at the wrong address.

That kind of thing then filters down to the rest of the public, and is a big part of the 'police as occupiers' instead of 'police as public' mindset. That and bullshit crimes, but that's not really their fault.

I think they'd at least think twice if their option was 'call the army' instead of 'call base and get tactical', although like you say that could just lead to an over-reliance on military assistance that would be even worse.

In the case of the stadium, where it was a case of a chance of significant violence from organized terrorists (or putting on a security show for the foreigners), that really doesn't seem like a peace officer thing though. Maybe they could have put on a couple of the redcoats with the big hats on the door instead, they have SA80s now.

Helen Highwater posted:

That's why a lot of European countries (including France), keep a separate militarised police force alongside regular law-enforcement. The Gendarmerie/Carabinieri/Guardia Civil/etc provide high visibility security in busy areas as well as riot control, disaster management and a bunch of other things where having a centralised command structure comes in handy, not just for storming hostage situations.


This is the Spanish Guardia Civil. The symbol they use (the bundle of sticks with the axes) is called the Fascio which is the etymological root of the word 'fascism'.

Dilkington posted:

Carabinieri are kept around in part because in Italy it is important that there be enough police to watch all the other police. This is true of Mexico as well.


Roma

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Yes, and US police certainly don't need some bunch of federals interfering in their affairs



oops that might be a canadian

The Dark One posted:

A public radio reporter recovers from being maced in Minnesota.