clamiam45 posted:OK, so my game plan is cruise EVGA B Stock website for 970, 980 and Ebay for R9 290 and R9 290X? Sounds good if so, thanks. B-stock goes out of stock quickly, just get a 2xxx model, it won't OC quite as high as the really good 970s but it's still going to be very fast and at $250 it's a steal.
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Nov 18, 2015 11:46
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FaustianQ posted:BTW, Fury is actually at a price that makes it worth it. Wow, holy poo poo, and it's also the Sapphire Tri-X, too. Yes, this is a good value, if one can afford it. The cooling performance that a completely unobstructed third fan provides (owing to the shorty-short board) is surprising.
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Nov 18, 2015 12:50
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clamiam45 posted:OK, so my game plan is cruise EVGA B Stock website for 970, 980 and Ebay for R9 290 and R9 290X? Sounds good if so, thanks. -197x- are the loud blower boxes, avoid them unless you need extra heat removal for SLI or the like. It's updated whenever they get new stock from return or the step up program, and the 'good' model go really fast.
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Nov 18, 2015 13:15
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Rhaka posted:Is there a European equivalent of these B-stock sales? Getting a new 970 sets me back anywhere from €350,- to €400,- which seems a bit much to pay for them right now. I tried buying one used from the local auction site but got hosed and lost my money, so I'm rather eerie about buying used now... And I think I'd get hosed on shipping/import fees if I order through the regular B-stock site. If you're in the UK, OCUK tends to have some decent deals, I think. You can use a package-forwarding service, if you like, but you'll pay import duties and maybe VAT? I'd imagine that's where a good chunk of the price difference comes from.
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Nov 18, 2015 15:39
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Rhaka posted:Is there a European equivalent of these B-stock sales? Getting a new 970 sets me back anywhere from €350,- to €400,- which seems a bit much to pay for them right now. I tried buying one used from the local auction site but got hosed and lost my money, so I'm rather eerie about buying used now... And I think I'd get hosed on shipping/import fees if I order through the regular B-stock site. EVGA have a European B-store too: http://eu.evga.com/Products/ProductList.aspx?type=8 970s for €280-ish. Only thing is they all appear to be using the crappy cooler mentioned earlier (ACX 2.0).
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Nov 18, 2015 16:28
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Paul MaudDib posted:If you're in the UK, OCUK tends to have some decent deals, I think. In Holland, actually, but close enough. And yeah, the import duties and so on completely obliterate the otherwise great savings when ordering electronics from outside of europe. xiansi posted:EVGA have a European B-store too: Oh, awesome. I tried to find the EU store but apparently I am poo poo. Will definitely stalk this for a bit. How big of a deal is it to get the crappy cooler? €120,- worth of a deal? Don't suppose it can be replaced with an aftermarket cooler of some sort?
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Nov 18, 2015 17:56
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Rhaka posted:In Holland, actually, but close enough. And yeah, the import duties and so on completely obliterate the otherwise great savings when ordering electronics from outside of europe. Your option for an aftermarket one is pretty much just waterblocks for custom liquid cooling loops, so not cheap at all. The lovely cooler is fine when you are getting that sort of discount, the 970 is a cool, quiet card to begin with so the crappy cooler does not have a huge impact, you'll just get a lower overclock than a nicer card would get you.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:00
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Ah, okay. I wasn't really planning on fiddling with OCs too much anyway--mainly I just really need to replace the ancient 7700 that's holding the rig back, and the 380 I previously bought has some poo poo driver issues with one of my main pc games (FFXIV) AMD doesn't seem in a hurry to fix.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:06
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Rhaka posted:Ah, okay. I wasn't really planning on fiddling with OCs too much anyway--mainly I just really need to replace the ancient 7700 that's holding the rig back, and the 380 I previously bought has some poo poo driver issues with one of my main pc games (FFXIV) AMD doesn't seem in a hurry to fix. I have a 970 and play FFXIV and it runs great with everything maxed out on my 1920x1200 monitor, so you should be just fine with a 970 in your system.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:10
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Rock on.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:15
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Your option for an aftermarket one is pretty much just waterblocks for custom liquid cooling loops, so not cheap at all. The lovely cooler is fine when you are getting that sort of discount, the 970 is a cool, quiet card to begin with so the crappy cooler does not have a huge impact, you'll just get a lower overclock than a nicer card would get you. There's also the option of an NZXT G10 adapter and any old cheap AIO liquid cooler, but that'll bring you pretty close back up to the original price. Back when I had one of AMDs jet-engine cards, these were a thing: http://www.quietpc.com/gel-icy-vision but that doesn't fit a 970 by the looks of it.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:25
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So when are the 16nm cards coming out?
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Nov 18, 2015 18:32
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veedubfreak posted:So when are the 16nm cards coming out? Somewhere between next spring and fall, I'm guessing September or so.
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Nov 18, 2015 18:49
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Your option for an aftermarket one is pretty much just waterblocks for custom liquid cooling loops, so not cheap at all. The lovely cooler is fine when you are getting that sort of discount, the 970 is a cool, quiet card to begin with so the crappy cooler does not have a huge impact, you'll just get a lower overclock than a nicer card would get you. Yeah, it's also worth noting that those early ACX2.0 cards have a 4+2 phase VRM, while the later models went to a 6+2. That helps the overclocking as well as the cooler. It's not €125 worth of difference but it does help a little. If they have a B-stock site in the EU, assuming it works like the US they periodically refresh their stock. The better quality units are fractionally more expensive but sell out quick. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 19:57
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How are resale values on high end gpu's when the new model comes out? Friend of mine sold his old Titan Z and bought a Titan X with enough £££ leftover for his wife's system to get a 980ti. Is he correct in proclaiming that the *80ti's and titan's historically hold their value over a couple of years as long as you buy a well known brand like MSI or ASUS because someone, somewhere, will want to SLI it or replace a dead card when they gently caress up overclocking. I tried to point out the Z has full fp64 for why it's used price has actually increased but he shrugged that off as no use for gaming. I sort of asked this before as part of another question but didn't see this part answered.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:06
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Verizian posted:How are resale values on high end gpu's when the new model comes out? Friend of mine sold his old Titan Z and bought a Titan X with enough £££ leftover for his wife's system to get a 980ti. Is he correct in proclaiming that the *80ti's and titan's historically hold their value over a couple of years as long as you buy a well known brand like MSI or ASUS because someone, somewhere, will want to SLI it or replace a dead card when they gently caress up overclocking. I tried to point out the Z has full fp64 for why it's used price has actually increased but he shrugged that off as no use for gaming. 780 Tis went according to their gaming value rather than their compute value. For a handy reference on what that meant for pricing, they lost about half their value overnight when the 970 came out. For people replacing dead cards they'd be getting a 970 or 980, it's entirely compute users keeping value high for Titans, while the reason people pick up a second last gen card is because the new hotness drove the price down.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:12
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For more perspective on gpu resale value. When the gtx 900 series came out, I sold my GTX 680 for $150. When the 700 series came out, I bought it used for $360. The 900 series tanked the value of all other generations by several hundred dollars. The only exception being Titan cards.
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Nov 18, 2015 20:31
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I don't have numbers but if you want to sell, it's definitely best to watch for rumors of an imminent launch and sell it before the announcement. Those usually happen at conferences/expos. It can be a bit between announcement and availability, and it's even longer before they stop pumping the early adopters and start dropping prices. Typically the new hotness launches as a halo product (Titan X, Fury X) for a time before we get the reasonably-priced consumer variant, then there's a rush on supply, and finally 6 months later the prices have started dropping for realsies. So it could easily be 4Q 2016 or 1Q 2017 before we have a 1080 Ti. So don't forget to think about Plan B for the period between when you sell and when you buy in again. If you don't have a GPU you'll be happy playing on in the interim, I'd think seriously about watching for a cheapie midrange card, like a B-stock 780 Ti ($180) or a 290 (aim for <=$200) / 290X (<=$250) or something. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 21:17
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Paul MaudDib posted:I don't have numbers but if you want to sell, it's definitely best to watch for rumors of an imminent launch and sell it before the announcement. Those usually happen at conferences/expos. Huh, did the Titan X come out before the 750 Ti?
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Nov 18, 2015 21:39
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It didn't. The Titan X launched around the time of the 970/980. 750ti was a thing that stuck around for a year before that as Nvidia's mobile chip testbed.
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Nov 18, 2015 21:48
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:Somewhere between next spring and fall, I'm guessing September or so. That would be two full years after the release of the 970/980, which would be a significantly longer than usual delay. Is there any specific reason to believe it's going to take that long?
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Nov 18, 2015 22:12
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MaxxBot posted:That would be two full years after the release of the 970/980, which would be a significantly longer than usual delay. Is there any specific reason to believe it's going to take that long? It appears to be issues with HBM2 production ramping up to a scale Nvidia thinks will make for a fluid release. The thinking is AMD wants to beat Nvidia to the market, but with Nvidia having such a dominate position it can afford to go slower and stick the landing instead. There may or may not be also considerations about GDDR5X, since the 150-250$ market is lucrative enough that forgoing might make ones midrange cards unappealing all things considered equal. Finally, TSMCs 16nm readiness for GPU production may be holding things up. It's all speculation and rumor right now though.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:32
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MaxxBot posted:That would be two full years after the release of the 970/980, which would be a significantly longer than usual delay. Is there any specific reason to believe it's going to take that long? It's been a two year delay for a while now, you had Fermi, then Kelper then Maxwell all separated by 2-2.5 years depending on how you want to count things. Before that there was a 3 year gap between Tesla and Fermi, I don't think the delay is all that unusual when we are going to be moving to a new process and a new architecture with Pascal.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:33
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The longer it takes the less bad I feel about buying like 10 900 series cards 
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Nov 18, 2015 22:38
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http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-380x-official-performance-price-specifications/ The 380X is claimed to bring 10% higher average fps than a (undoubtedly stock) 960 on AMD's own press benchmarks. Any kind of overclock or custom card and you can say hello to 250 Watts.
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Nov 18, 2015 22:49
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Will GeForce Pascal cards likely be available with 12GB+ RAM from the start, or will these come later?
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Nov 18, 2015 22:56
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sauer kraut posted:http://wccftech.com/amd-radeon-r9-380x-official-performance-price-specifications/ I thought the 380x is supposed to be a chunk more power efficient than the 390, it's a newer architecture right? 380x TDP is 190 watts, for comparison the 390 is 275 watts. On the other hand, the GTX 960 that AMD themselves claim they're 10% better than is a TDP of 120 watts, so yikes, I didn't realize the watts to performance was *that* bad for AMD.
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Nov 18, 2015 23:00
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Paul MaudDib posted:I don't have numbers but if you want to sell, it's definitely best to watch for rumors of an imminent launch and sell it before the announcement. Those usually happen at conferences/expos. Pretty sure they've shifted to releasing generations with the midrange part so they can milk the hell out of people who have to have the best with the x80 part, and then come out with the big halo part to hit them again with the Titan/Ti part. Also because it does make sense to use the smaller chips to start new architectures/nodes.
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Nov 18, 2015 23:20
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Cingulate posted:Will GeForce Pascal cards likely be available with 12GB+ RAM from the start, or will these come later? HBM2 is a new tech, it's going to be pricey. I doubt it.
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Nov 18, 2015 23:34
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xthetenth posted:Pretty sure they've shifted to releasing generations with the midrange part so they can milk the hell out of people who have to have the best with the x80 part, and then come out with the big halo part to hit them again with the Titan/Ti part. Also because it does make sense to use the smaller chips to start new architectures/nodes. Yeah, it does totally make sense to lead with a midrange part (x80) or even the low-end part (x50 Ti) so you can prototype your architecture and figure out if it's got an unexpected bottleneck. I'm not sure if history is going to be a 100% accurate guide here, because my impression is that AMD is going to be leading with trump, Greenland. I wouldn't be astonished to see either a Titan Q or a 1080 as NVIDIA's lead play, in response. It'll be interesting, because everyone is doing a node shrink and NVIDIA is also doing their first HBM design. Cingulate posted:Will GeForce Pascal cards likely be available with 12GB+ RAM from the start, or will these come later? I think a Titan Q will probably have 12-16 GB, a 1080 Ti will probably have 8 GB, and a 1080/1070 will have 4-6 GB. I don't think HBM is going to make it into the lower-tier parts, particularly if they have supply issues. I think rumored supply issues are probably overblown at this point but I'm not counting them out. I'm not betting either way on the midrange 1080 part but I think AMD is likely to release an enhanced or die-shrunk Fury part in that space, which may push NVIDIA to do HBM there too. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 00:52
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All the rumour sites I've seen pointed at GP100 using HBM2 with 16GB baseline prosumer Titan and/or Ti flagship cards in Q2 and a 32GB Quadro/Tesla monster for fuckloads of cash later in the year when HBM2 supply is more stable. GP104 is the GDDR5x compatible chip for everything below Ti. Is there any reason they couldn't just use two or three of the 4GB HBM2 modules on an intro GP100 card? Do they have to go with 4x4GB OR 8x4GB as kitguru and the rest are all claiming?
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Nov 19, 2015 00:58
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Zero VGS posted:I thought the 380x is supposed to be a chunk more power efficient than the 390, it's a newer architecture right? 380x TDP is 190 watts, for comparison the 390 is 275 watts. AMD's basically trying to use one architecture to compete both in desktop graphics (traditional pipeline) as well as consoles. All the modern consoles are (high-end, customized) AMD APUs while NVIDIA has a specialized desktop-graphics architecture (Maxwell) and hawks Kepler in the compute space (which they absolutely dominate, and which is no more efficient than GCN is). AMD's bet is that DX12 and Vulkan are going to have a very compute-like workload, since bare-metal and asynchronous workloads let the console guys (where they dominate, and where hardware is cheap and lovely) squeeze more out of the hardware. For AAA games and name-brand game engines it's a reasonably solid bet. That said the efficiency improvements of Tonga are overblown. It does make some solid improvements in tesselation performance over Hawaii, but it's basically an incremental improvement. AMD's been running more-or-less the same architecture since Tahiti and Pitcairn and just bolting crap on when they need more. For a company that's trying to economize on engineering resources (design, driver support, etc) it makes sense, but honestly the efficiency/performance advantages of GCN 1.2 over an equivalent amount of GCN 1.1 cores just isn't that great. GCN 1.0 (Tahiti and Pitcairn) is starting to get seriously long in the tooth at this point, though. As much as the 285 wasn't really a suitable replacement for the 280/x (all it really improves on is transistor density, tesselation, and color compression), AMD did need to give GCN 1.0 a dirtnap. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:13 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 01:00
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I think the 380x will flop if it comes in at $250 for non reference coolers. Really need to be around $220 since you have been finding 290s/970s between 230 to 270.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:07
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I don't think their pricing pays any mind at all to the used prices/aftermarket.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:27
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Are the M295X/395X basically just power binned (and presumably lower clocked?) versions of the 380X?
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Nov 19, 2015 01:29
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japtor posted:Are the M295X/395X basically just power binned (and presumably lower clocked?) versions of the 380X? Basically. Although possibly not even power-binned, since Apple was basically buying up 100% of the Tonga XT crop. The distinction used to be that the 285 was Tonga Pro (chips with defective units) and Apple got all the Tonga XTs. If AMD was binning Tonga XT then that implies there was somewhere for the lower-binned units to go. If they went somewhere, it was probably Apple desktops. Or Apple might have been doing it themselves. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 01:32
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Paul MaudDib posted:I'm not betting either way on the midrange 1080 part but I think AMD is likely to release an enhanced or die-shrunk Fury part in that space, which may push NVIDIA to do HBM there too. Wasn't Fiji a native 20nm design but then got cut back to fit into 28nm? If they can stack HBM1 higher than 4GB then it's solid reasoning to assume Fury X now is going to be the 490X in 2016. I guess this wouldn't be making a new GPU as well. But I'm still betting on Tonga because it'd be weird as hell to have the high end have worse tessellation performance and fewer features than the 480/470 but then, it hasn't stopped AMD before.
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Nov 19, 2015 01:58
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Is a 950 a decent upgrade over a 560Ti?
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Nov 19, 2015 02:00
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a retard posted:Is a 950 a decent upgrade over a 560Ti? It's not a huge upgrade, I'd save up for a 380 and keep an eye out for sales instead.
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Nov 19, 2015 02:09
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AVeryLargeRadish posted:It's not a huge upgrade, I'd save up for a 380 and keep an eye out for sales instead. Tell me if I've got this right Sub 100$: HD 6970, HD 7850 or R7 360 Sub 100$, low profile: GT 740 GDDR5 Sub 150$: GTX 750 Ti, R7 370, HD 7950* Sub 150$, low profile: GTX 750 Ti Sub 225$: R9 380, R9 290*, GTX 780* Sub 300$: GTX 970*, GTX 780ti*, 290X Sub 400$: GTX 970, GTX 980* 401$ and up: 980 Ti, Fury* *Second hand, B-Stock, Sale.
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Nov 19, 2015 02:54
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