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Green is definitely the weakest color in BFZ but it isn't unplayably weak, especially now that people are terrified of being in it. Also, if you're having trouble getting enablers you probably aren't taking them high enough. I've never heard that complaint from any of the regular drafters/pros/streamers. Remember that it took a while for the community to realize that green was actually bad, and it's fine to have somewhat imbalanced colors in draft. They probably knew green was the weakest color, but not how much people would end up avoiding it.
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Nov 19, 2015 19:51
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Are there any draft sims up for the new legendary cube yet? Edit: what does a good green draft deck look like in BFZ draft?
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Nov 19, 2015 19:56
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You probably need to be in a situation where the other 7 players have decided they will not play green no matter what, and you literally get almost all the green cards passed to you. If that happens, you can do well.
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Nov 19, 2015 19:58
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sarmhan posted:Green is definitely the weakest color in BFZ but it isn't unplayably weak, especially now that people are terrified of being in it. Also, if you're having trouble getting enablers you probably aren't taking them high enough. I've never heard that complaint from any of the regular drafters/pros/streamers. To walk it back a little, I suppose there's a certain level of being open where its fine, e.g. everyone passes you all the Scythe Leopards and Makindi Sliderunner (or Tajuru Warcaller, etc.) opened (which has happened before, I'm sure). But its not just a lower-tier color to be in, its actively worse than the other ones even if getting every single card in it could make a decent deck. Its just not worth trying to look out for the possibility of green being open the vast majority of the time. In the garden variety "this is open" scenario, Green still isn't good enough to play. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 19:58
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CountFosco posted:Are there any draft sims up for the new legendary cube yet? Legendary Cube on CubeTutor
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Nov 19, 2015 20:02
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This is cool look at everyone favorite beefcake from origins. http://originalmagicart.com/art-in-focus-enthralling-victor-by-winona-nelson/ Bugsy fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Nov 19, 2015 |
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Nov 19, 2015 20:04
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TheKingofSprings posted:Hope you guessed the highest frequency decks and sideboarded for it Well yeah, duh, that is the sucky part about Modern. I enjoy modern play, though there is a lot I would change about it (I want Wasteland to be reprinted and legal in the format, also unbanning either ponder or preordain) but as a casual FNM format, it isn't bad. I really haven't enjoyed standard since RTR rotated out. I have at least had fun with modern.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:07
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Northjayhawk posted:You probably need to be in a situation where the other 7 players have decided they will not play green no matter what, and you literally get almost all the green cards passed to you. If that happens, you can do well. You can do well, but the ceiling on good G/x decks is still lower than the ceiling on most other decks. Owen Turtenwald put it really well -- what's the best green common in BFZ? (according to him it's Snapping Gnarlid, LSV thinks it might be Lifespring Druid). Snapping Gnarlid gets blanked by so many other cards in BFZ, many of them are like the 9th best cards in their respective decks. Kozilek's Sentinel comes down and just stonewalls it, and that card is just mediocre. Lifespring Druid may as well be a mana rock -- you're not really sending it into the red unless you're done ramping. Green heavy decks absolutely live or die on their uncommon/rares. If you can get two Tajuru Warcallers, you're in a real good spot, but those are fairly high picks. You're at the mercy of the packs if you decide to go in on green, even if it's wide open.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:16
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Bugsy posted:This is cool look at everyone favorite beefcake from origins. Everyone read this
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Nov 19, 2015 20:21
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Bugsy posted:This is cool look at everyone favorite beefcake from origins.  This is lovely.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:22
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Northjayhawk posted:You probably need to be in a situation where the other 7 players have decided they will not play green no matter what, and you literally get almost all the green cards passed to you. If that happens, you can do well. Someone got two Woodland Wanderers passed to him in the last draft I was in. He's also really sketchy and smells like weed all the time. Coincidence I think not!
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Nov 19, 2015 20:24
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AlternateNu posted:Weren't the finals of GP Atlanta 2 G/x decks? No, one deck was.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:25
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Bugsy posted:This is cool look at everyone favorite beefcake from origins. quote:For the mood they said: “sometimes there is no recourse but to give in and stare at the sun,” 
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Nov 19, 2015 20:25
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BFZ finally hit Duels today (Steam only).
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Nov 19, 2015 20:33
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Bugsy posted:This is cool look at everyone favorite beefcake from origins. I never noticed before that the sky is giving Victor a halo. He's just so incredibly sexy.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:34
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CountFosco posted:Edit: what does a good green draft deck look like in BFZ draft? GWx allies. With a couple Lifespring Druids, Blighted Woodland, Fertile Thicket, and Evolving Wilds or Pilgrim's Eye if you're lucky, you can cast Tajuru Stalwarts as 2G 3/4s pretty easily. Tajuru Warcaller or the WR doublestrike one as a finisher. Buncha small allies like Castigator, or the Bladewhirl if you're lucky. Token makers like Brood Monitor, Catacomb Sifter, Eyeless Watcher get better if Warcaller is your endgame. Infuse with the Elements is really good if you're 3 colors and have Lifespring Druids. GWB Allies is a thing if you're kinda half in the BW lifegain deck but have some good green cards and some fixing. Kalastria Healer into United Front for 3 colors into Tajuru Warcaller is big game. Beastmaster is also a giant Ally that pumps your team and makes for a decent poor-man's Warcaller. If you're just looking at the 10 2-color pairs, the green ones kind of suck, but there are very good 3 color base-green decks in the format, it's just you only get them if you get passed enough fixing. And of course there are bomb green rares like From Beyond, Omnath, Brood Butcher, Greenwarden of Murasa, Undergrowth Champion, and especially Woodland Wanderer that can really reward you for having access to green mana.
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Nov 19, 2015 20:49
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Rinkles posted:BFZ finally hit Duels today (Steam only). which duels is this? the newest?
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Nov 19, 2015 21:08
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It's too bad the B/G sacrifice deck didn't turn out to be good. It looks so good on paper! It has: -Multiple common/uncommon team pump effects -Ways to draw cards/kill creatures through sacking creatures -Lots of token makers But then it also has to deal with token hosers, and has no way to really get card advantage vs. Awaken, and the tokens often just don't do anything, and there are no good defensive deathtouch creatures. What do people think would be necessary for it to work? A Nantuko Husk? A playable Wall or cheap card with deathtouch? What if Call the Scions cost 1G, or Eyeless Watcher was like a 2GG 2/2? What if Carrier Thrall was a common?
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Nov 19, 2015 21:22
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Also I think the lack of removal and any kind of evasion hurts green a lot. This is a format where disrupting the opponent's synergy, even a little bit, is super important towards gaining tempo and ultimately winning the game. Origins had Wild Instincts and Orchard Spirirt at least.The defensive options in W/U/R are good enough that it's effectively impossible to aggro out with green. Your Snapping Gnarlid and Tajuru Stalwart, not to mention your 1/1 dorks, look like a bunch of idiots against Kozilek's Sentinel, Vile Aggregate, Benthic Infiltrator, and Fortified Rampart.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:26
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Entropic posted:GWx allies. Yeah basically this. Last week I started out with some very strong white cards, stayed white until I saw a 5th pick Tajuru Warcaller, and followed it up with Tajuru Beastmaster, and started taking whatever allies I could. Ended up in WGB splashing Munda, with most of the commons and uncommons on that list (Healer, 2x Bladewhirl, Castigator, Catacomb Sifter, Eyeless Watcher, Pilgrim's Eye, 2x Fertile Thicket, Infuse with Elements). The deck had some mana issues a few games but I still went 3-0 and split the last round. Triggering Warcaller more than once just ends a game easily. Naya Allies if I had things like Resolute Blademaster instead of the black cards would have been even better. Also a good RG landfall deck can be very good. A Grove Rumbler backed by any lands that can fetch other lands or the billions of pump spells red and green have access to (or even Slab Hammer) is basically impossible to block and will kill you in 3 hits unanswered. Valakut Predator is similarly threatening at common, though it lacks trample, and is only really good in the RG deck. E: Call the Scions into Eyeless Watcher into Swarm Surge is very often an instant win for GB. Green is weak because the fight card is terrible in the set, but you can have reasonable green decks.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:27
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Rinkles posted:BFZ finally hit Duels today (Steam only). I love how they decided to make different products for each platform instead of having one backend with differing UIs. It's adorable.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:28
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Entropic posted:GWx allies. There's also just aggressive Gnarlids & Lifespring Druids into all the good White/Blue stuff thats easy to splash with enough Druids (like Roil Spout and Clutch), and other decent converge stuff.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:33
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The Human Crouton posted:I love how they decided to make different products for each platform instead of having one backend with differing UIs. It's adorable. My favorite technical difficulties on iOS are: - When trying to use Nissa's ultimate, I have to tap just the right pixel, because the "choose which lands to turn into creatures" dialog box covers most of the corner where my lands are - When playing Abbot of Keral Keep, I have to hope he doesn't flip over a card with enough rules text to fill up the box, because the "Play this card" ability is at the bottom of the rules text and it doesn't let me scroll down on the card
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Nov 19, 2015 21:37
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Ultima66 posted:Yeah basically this. Last week I started out with some very strong white cards, stayed white until I saw a 5th pick Tajuru Warcaller, and followed it up with Tajuru Beastmaster, and started taking whatever allies I could. Ended up in WGB splashing Munda, with most of the commons and uncommons on that list (Healer, 2x Bladewhirl, Castigator, Catacomb Sifter, Eyeless Watcher, Pilgrim's Eye, 2x Fertile Thicket, Infuse with Elements). The deck had some mana issues a few games but I still went 3-0 and split the last round. Triggering Warcaller more than once just ends a game easily. Naya Allies if I had things like Resolute Blademaster instead of the black cards would have been even better. RG is terrible, it doesn't come together even if you have Grove Rumbler. I'd rather just play an aggro R/W deck with Predators. The removal is better.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:39
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There's a guy at my LGS who forces RG Landfall at every FNM and almost always goes undefeated. FNM is a different beast and the "dinosaur" deck is good there. This is an archetype driven draft set, so if you're drafting with people who just take the best cards in each pack, i.e. the average FNM drafter, you're going to have a hard time putting your archetype together. It's a real mess. I'd rather sit at a table with pro players than newbies, which isn't always totally true. Khans block I always had enough fixing to play whatever bombs I was passed, and Origins I could play my colors, not a specific archetype.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:50
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BJPaskoff posted:There's a guy at my LGS who forces RG Landfall at every FNM and almost always goes undefeated. FNM is a different beast and the "dinosaur" deck is good there. Isn't the advantage to knowing which archetypes are available to draft that a bunch of the higher picks look bad, and that you get a bunch of high powered cards for your deck 10th pick or whatever? Like, if I'm sitting at a table with a bunch of people who are treating BFZ limited like a core set draft, I'm going to be getting stuff like Sludge Crawler and Kalastria Healer way later than I have any right to, and I'll make up for my neighbors giving off lovely signals with much better card quality.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:59
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Rimusutera posted:There's also just aggressive Gnarlids & Lifespring Druids into all the good White/Blue stuff thats easy to splash with enough Druids (like Roil Spout and Clutch), and other decent converge stuff. I think RG Landfall is almost there as a deck, it just can have trouble getting through walls and chump blocks because none of its dudes have trample or any kind of evasion. the 1W 0/6 wall can be the bane of RG decks. But if they have the Menace rally guy or lots of good removal, they can certainly get there. Valakut Predator can hit real hard.
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Nov 19, 2015 21:59
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The main problem with the RG landfall deck is just that the RW aggro deck is almost always better. You get all the same Valakut Predators and Sliderunners and red removal, but you also get access to white removal, and white has better aggro creatures than green, which basically just has Snapping Gnarlid and no other worthwhile aggro 2-drops. Plus you tend to get more random ally synergies going RW, with Castigators and the white Rally creatures.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:08
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RB Devoid aggro is better too -- If there's anyone else at the table going R/x aggro, ur gonna have a bad time.
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Nov 19, 2015 22:18
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Yeah I posted asking about draft combos. To my surprise the playgroup really enjoyed it! Was worried about Spider Spawning myself but none of them have hinted at choosing INN.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:22
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Dungeon Ecology posted:RB Devoid aggro is better too -- If there's anyone else at the table going R/x aggro, ur gonna have a bad time. At least RG doesn't overlap as much with RB devoid though. I mean you'll fight for Touch of the Void and some of the mythic uncommons that any red deck wants like Rolling Thunder, but non-devoid red decks don't really care about Kozilek's Sentinel or Vestige of Emrakul. or even Nettle Drone and Vile Aggregate. And RB Devoid isn't particularly prioritizing Sliderunners and Valakut Predators and Stonefurys.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:23
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Angry Grimace posted:When LSV says a color or archetype isn't good in a draft format, if the format is good, that can mean its a sleeper archetype to get into because you get all the cards you need passed to you. In a bad format like this one, it doesn't matter, green still sucks and taking the open green cards is still a losing recipe. Its kind of the same issue with Converge and Processors - they're mostly random mechanics because they're entirely synergy based cards to work, but you're not terribly likely to actually get them.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:24
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green would be significantly better if unnatural aggression gave a p/t boost. my first draft i assumed it did and didn't realize until i went to cast it and saw i was about to 2-for-1 myself.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:26
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I mean it's not the first time that green has been incredibly bad recently. It was just masked because FRF was only ever one pack.
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Nov 19, 2015 23:39
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Legendary cube makes me wanna vomit more money on MODO then I have to spare (none)
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Nov 19, 2015 23:40
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One thing I just realized about the 2 block per year paradigm, is that its going to make draft a lot more fun, with very large changes every quarter instead of just 2 sometimes 3 times a quarter. Before, it used to be in a normal Large Small Small block, each small set incrementally changed what worked before, sometimes an archetype changed a lot, but the new small set is still only 1 pack. Now, since OGW is going to be 2 packs when its released, it is going to greatly change the draft environment, to the point where green could even go from nearly unplayable, to "average" if the first 2 packs are good for green.
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Nov 20, 2015 00:02
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Has Rogue Deck Building Gone Too Far?? (click for context)
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Nov 20, 2015 00:45
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SaffronOlive is what TWoo aspired to, but never achieved.
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Nov 20, 2015 00:55
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he's gotta be from Michigan or Wisconsin judging by the way he says 'E-valving' Wilds.
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Nov 20, 2015 01:05
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Foreskin Problems posted:SaffronOlive is what TWoo aspired to, but never achieved. a member of the master race???
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Nov 20, 2015 01:08
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