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MisterBibs posted:Sure it matters. The reasons for NV's love here is identical to why DS9 and FR are loved: adding Quality Points (for lack of a better term) to something not-that-great because the rest of the audience didn't find it all that good.
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Nov 22, 2015 14:19
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:You are mentally ill. No but you see everyone outside of Something Awful has perfect mental health that's the only reason. 
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Nov 22, 2015 14:26
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Esroc posted:In all of the modern Fallout games (never played 1 or 2) it's been over 200 years since the bombs dropped. I just cannot buy that the world is still entirely hosed after 200 years. America was built into what it is today in less than 250 years, the leap from industrial revolution to the digital age took about the same amount of time. Even with super mutants, rampant radiation, zombies, and other weirdness, most of the world would have recovered by now. But even if we handwave that, there's still the problem of the settings the games take place in being pristine and untouched despite being occupied for 200 years. Nuked bodies still litter the streets and ruins after two centuries. Pre-war technology and consumer goods are so absolutely commonplace that you literally trip over them during short jaunts from one building to the next. Most everyone lives in hastily cobbled together sheds and sheet metal garrisons instead of fixing up the numerous fully functional buildings that dot the landscape. There are cars everywhere yet no one is ever seen driving one or even attempting to fix one up to make it drive-able. Right but those are parts of a constant evolution. If you dropped nukes around the founding of America it would be much much more than 250 years for them to rebuild and progress to what they are today. When you reduce everything to 0 and start again it's very different.
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Nov 22, 2015 14:30
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I always thought it was because after the bombs dropped something in humanity just broke and it's impossible for us to cooperate in any meaningful way other than setting up very rudimentary shelters and marketplaces.
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Nov 22, 2015 14:45
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Now that I've actually gotten to play it, I can say that Fallout 4's not too bad overall, even if it hasn't proven any of my concerns wrong. But they give you way too much early on. I always felt a big part of Fallout was starting from basically nothing and slowly building up, but apparently Bethesda disagrees. By the end of the first quest, about an hour or two in, you have: -Two separate home bases, -Two companions, -A faction to align yourself to, -A full set of power armor, -A minigun, -A known location of a second heavy weapon (that is not under heavy guard), -A lot of admittedly low-grade loot from raider corpses, -And the remains of a Deathclaw that you slaughtered, by yourself. And this is all without deviating from the main path whatsoever. You haven't been out of the Vault for a day at this point and you've already been given what would be an endgame position and saved the day against Fallout's big classic 'oh poo poo' enemy; I feel like it cheapens the whole experience, since it's not like it keeps up that momentum. The fact it just gives you two companions is probably the worst part of it. Companions aren't exactly endgame for Fallout, but (at least in 3 and New Vegas, I can't speak for the first two) you at least need to expend effort to get them, and it was big when you did. New Vegas has a companion in the second town, sure, but getting ED-E online requires skill checks and scavenger hunting, and he's not exactly a strong fighter when you get him. 4 hands you two right out the gates without you even trying, it loses the appeal of companions in the first place. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 14:52 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 14:47
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To be slightly fair to the game, early on power armor is poo poo because you'll run out of cores with no backups so it's not a great idea to use it willy-nilly and the minigun is kind of poo poo in this game because it just eats up AP and ammo without being especially great. I assume the second weapon is the Cryolator and you can actually get that right now by heading back and getting the dog to "fetch an item" near the case until he pops up with it. I'm not the biggest fan of heavy weapons in this game, I mostly just use my excess missile launchers and fatmans to sell for a delicious load of caps whenever I run across a trader. It's basically a fancy set piece battle to wow you into thinking the whole game will be like that, but like ten minutes later you have no ammo and your power armor is half empty. I can live without companions though, I still haven't used any. I just call them over to do the stupid poo poo they like to raise their affection. Something the game doesn't really tell you is that when you get a companion to max affection they give you a unique perk and permanent, for example codsworth makes you take less damage from robots.
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Nov 22, 2015 15:32
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Calaveron posted:I always thought it was because after the bombs dropped something in humanity just broke and it's impossible for us to cooperate in any meaningful way other than setting up very rudimentary shelters and marketplaces. The David Brin novel The Postman has an interesting take on why things go post apocalyptic. The main character talks about how things probably would have worked out and recovered but doomsday preppers took advantage of society's issues to go all crazy murdertown.
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Nov 22, 2015 16:03
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After a nuclear war and 200 years, there shouldn't be any buildings left.
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Nov 22, 2015 16:58
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Byzantine posted:After a nuclear war and 200 years, there shouldn't be any buildings left. Deep commentary from October 28, 2008.
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Nov 22, 2015 17:00
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Also radiation doesn't make rats and insects become giant and nuclear reactors don't blow up in little mushroom clouds when a stray bullet hits them.
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Nov 22, 2015 17:01
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Krinkle posted:They say show don't tell, is that right? is that how it goes? Because I've been thinking about the intro to New Vegas the last ten minutes and I hate everything about it. The part where they told me I'm scared of caesar and his centurians? That was bad. The part where they showed me them doing pushups was also bad. I wish they told me the pushup part, and showed me the bad guys in general part. Like maybe the first time I even hear about centurians is when I walk into the town where everybody's crucified and when you help someone down they say "wow they just would not stop doing pushups. It was way more intimidating than the crucifixions!" That would have been better than that intro. Sleeveless posted:Also radiation doesn't make rats and insects become giant Hell no it doesn't. FEV does that. 2house2fly has a new favorite as of 17:04 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 17:02
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2house2fly posted:The Pushup Praetorians The NCR-Legion struggle is settled by a pushup competition in the New Vegas Arena.
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Nov 22, 2015 17:46
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Nuebot posted:Dave Mirra's Freestyle BMX for life. if you picked anybody but the slim jim guy, i dunno what to say.
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Nov 22, 2015 18:08
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Cleretic posted:Now that I've actually gotten to play it, I can say that Fallout 4's not too bad overall, even if it hasn't proven any of my concerns wrong. I felt the same way, the first few hours were like the end of another fallout game. I find it kinda works though, poo poo really ramps up to still give the feeling of "progressin." There are a lot more dangerous foes in the game then deathclaws, way better basic armor then the starter power armor, way better guns then the minigun, tons of hard to find companions, etc. It is a very different game. My biggest issue is STILL how obfuscated all the information on how things work. I use the help button way more then I should, information is only given once on the screen like when settlements are under attack, how perks work, etc. Lastly, I don't really notice any difference on where defences are built. I made the drive in impregnable, but to no avail the raiders just started inside the walls. Ive found turrets on raised platforms that are impossible to reach are the best. Also my settlers fight way better when I'm there, I've ported in after the attack warning and just waited. anytime I don't I take tons of losses.
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Nov 22, 2015 18:50
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Their flashing tongues, spitting out blood and poison.
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Nuebot posted:I can live without companions though, I still haven't used any. I just call them over to do the stupid poo poo they like to raise their affection. Something the game doesn't really tell you is that when you get a companion to max affection they give you a unique perk and permanent, for example codsworth makes you take less damage from robots. I used Nick Valentine for a while (can Hack all Terminals except for Master) because I really do not like hacking terminals and the XP is so low compared to what else I can do that I cheat and use him for every one I find. I guess you could Max Affection them but I'm just such a lone badass soldier I don't really care.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:13
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Nuebot posted:Dave Mirra's Freestyle BMX for life. Reminds me, the thing that drags down Monster Rancher 2 is that nothing has a Gaboo-subtype. I want a Suezo that looks the same but with a wrinkly forehead dammit! Or I guess that some monster types weren't utilized as well. Some were meant to be rare and all but Golem had a subtype for pretty much every monster, yet you could only get like 5 kinds of Gaboo. I guess it's more of a small gripe than anything but man there was so much they could have done if they spread out the variety a little more.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:16
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2house2fly posted:The Pushup Praetorians IIRC, a later Fallout Bible pulled away from the FEV explanation because it was taking away from the 50s pulp SCIENCE! feel.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:20
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Steak Eater posted:Reminds me, the thing that drags down Monster Rancher 2 is that nothing has a Gaboo-subtype. I want a Suezo that looks the same but with a wrinkly forehead dammit! That was always my issue with it too, that and you couldn't tame the wild monsters  then they dropped gaboo forever aside from a cameo in like 3 or 4. I like to think not even the developers like the gaboo, the living turd it was. I wish they'd bring the series back, but I guess the whole disc thing might not work with new consoles.Action Tortoise posted:if you picked anybody but the slim jim guy, i dunno what to say. Always used the slim jim guy.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:05
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Nuebot posted:That was always my issue with it too, that and you couldn't tame the wild monsters It would probably work best as a mobile game that uses mp3's or some other file type to generate monsters. But I dunno I am not a developer.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:19
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I refuse to believe anyone involved in the development of Fallout 3, New Vegas or Fallout 4 experienced combat with tiny flying creatures and thought "yeah, that's fun, keep that in the loving game". Either with the mouse or controller it feels equally lovely and unfun.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:26
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Len posted:It would probably work best as a mobile game that uses mp3's or some other file type to generate monsters. But I dunno I am not a developer. Square actually made one, but it was a turnbased strategy game and you made your dudes stronger by listening to the MP3 over and over and over again. There is a monster rancher mobile game, too, but it's awful. Less Fat Luke posted:I refuse to believe anyone involved in the development of Fallout 3, New Vegas or Fallout 4 experienced combat with tiny flying creatures and thought "yeah, that's fun, keep that in the loving game". Either with the mouse or controller it feels equally lovely and unfun. Yeah and now there's bloatflies, blood bugs and stingwings! Three types of interchangeable annoying flying insects. I love that blood bugs have that obnoxious cinematic bite attack too. While I'm at it, Bethesda, I hate to break it to you bug dogs aren't scary. Or threatening. Filling your game world with a billion faceless dogs that take one hit to kill is kind of boring. Filling skyrim with trillions of wolves, dogs and dog or wolf variants was also boring. I'm tired of killing dogs in video games. I think by this point I've killed more dogs than rats.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:33
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Nuebot posted:While I'm at it, Bethesda, I hate to break it to you bug dogs aren't scary. Or threatening. Filling your game world with a billion faceless dogs that take one hit to kill is kind of boring. Filling skyrim with trillions of wolves, dogs and dog or wolf variants was also boring. I'm tired of killing dogs in video games. I think by this point I've killed more dogs than rats.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:34
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Okay well I found proof that they did animate pushups at least. https://youtu.be/XLi87iui5rc?t=33 I don't know if they changed the intro video from launch or if I'm crazy. Maybe I saw a teaser trailer before launch and confused it for the intro video.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:05
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Krinkle posted:Okay well I found proof that they did animate pushups at least. It might have been the trailer, there's pushups in that: http://youtu.be/l-x-1fm2cq8
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Nov 23, 2015 02:49
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Esroc posted:In all of the modern Fallout games (never played 1 or 2) it's been over 200 years since the bombs dropped. I just cannot buy that the world is still entirely hosed after 200 years. America was built into what it is today in less than 250 years, the leap from industrial revolution to the digital age took about the same amount of time. Even with super mutants, rampant radiation, zombies, and other weirdness, most of the world would have recovered by now. But even if we handwave that, there's still the problem of the settings the games take place in being pristine and untouched despite being occupied for 200 years. Nuked bodies still litter the streets and ruins after two centuries. Pre-war technology and consumer goods are so absolutely commonplace that you literally trip over them during short jaunts from one building to the next. Most everyone lives in hastily cobbled together sheds and sheet metal garrisons instead of fixing up the numerous fully functional buildings that dot the landscape. There are cars everywhere yet no one is ever seen driving one or even attempting to fix one up to make it drive-able. Fallout New Vegas actually pretty strongly implies that the NCR is this. They have elections, they have a uniformed army, they have the concept of 'going on leave' and 'going to Vegas'. From the perspective of someone from the NCR, the actual NCR territories are meant to be normal-ish, the Strip is meant to be actually be ruin-free and looking almost like pre-War Vegas (instead of what we got in the game), and it's just that the rest of the Mojave is a lovely desert. The Strip is meant to look like the below, so I guess a Thing Dragging FNV Down is that instead, the Strip doesn't look like a surviving thriving community, but instead is barely less lovely-looking than everywhere else. 
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Nov 23, 2015 03:29
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Suddenly I wish we had gotten New Vegas done in the same visual style of the older fallouts because that would have probably looked awesome.
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Nov 23, 2015 03:33
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It's kind of a pity WRPGs aren't in the habit of updated remakes like JRPGs are, I'd love to see a more user-friendly Morrowind or, the reason the current conversation made me think of this, New Vegas without the technological restraints.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:03
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AlphaKretin posted:It's kind of a pity WRPGs aren't in the habit of updated remakes like JRPGs are, I'd love to see a more user-friendly Morrowind or, the reason the current conversation made me think of this, New Vegas without the technological restraints. Well, they're supposedly still working on Skywi- AlphaKretin posted:user-friendly Oh. Never mind.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:09
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New Vegas on Witcher 3's engine would be amazing. 
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Nov 23, 2015 04:16
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PubicMice posted:Well, they're supposedly still working on Skywi- Half of playing a Bethesda game is loving with making it work anyway. It's basically a hobby in of itself.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:27
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Yeah that was a bit unclear, when I say "user-friendly", I mean I started with Oblivion and I'm far too used to objective markers and relatively streamlined skill selections to not get hopelessly lost trying to play Morrowind.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:31
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AlphaKretin posted:Yeah that was a bit unclear, when I say "user-friendly", I mean I started with Oblivion and I'm far too used to objective markers and relatively streamlined skill selections to not get hopelessly lost trying to play Morrowind. Unfortunately that's like half of the appeal of older WRPGs. Even if it's dogshit to play now, people pine for the days when they were in high school and spending an entire afternoon slowly walking across Vvardenfell blindly searching caves guided by written instructions was something you could do and enjoy because free time was infinite.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:44
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AlphaKretin posted:Yeah that was a bit unclear, when I say "user-friendly", I mean I started with Oblivion and I'm far too used to objective markers and relatively streamlined skill selections to not get hopelessly lost trying to play Morrowind. I mean, you can play Morrowind in Oblivion now, it's rather buggy but in a playable alpha state with the main quest and side quests done last I checked.
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Nov 23, 2015 05:02
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Ramos posted:I mean, you can play Morrowind in Oblivion now, it's rather buggy but in a playable alpha state with the main quest and side quests done last I checked. Huh, I thought Morroblivion got cancelled or C&D'd or something. Guess I'll have to check that out.
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Nov 23, 2015 05:26
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I've always felt like the things that western RPG developers advance in, and the parts of old western RPGs that actually cause problems, aren't necessarily one and the same. In fact they're often not. From Oblivion to Skyrim we lost stats and a robust spellcrafting and enchanting system, but nobody was really calling for that. Sure the way stat progression was done in Oblivion was terrible, and spellcrafting was pretty broken, but the former wasn't too hard for modders to fix without just throwing the whole thing out and the latter is seen as a good thing. Over on Bioware's side of things I remember Dragon Age 2 being pretty resoundingly disliked because it developed in a complete 180 from what people enjoyed about the original. And of course with both of those you've also got the switch from a silent, broadly-defined protagonist to a specified, voiced one, and I think even if you do believe that was a good move you can see there's still a strong call for a silent player-avatar. Of course the later games are better games, because they also make objective improvements to the formula and are made with stronger tools and for stronger platforms, but in the process they shed a lot of things that aren't necessarily obsolete and still do have appeal. I think that's part of why Pillars of Eternity works so well. It's a throwback to old Infinity Engine games, sure, but it does it in a way that makes them more user-friendly without simplifying the actual RPG elements. There's totally a spot in the market for someone to go 'hey, let's just make a modern Morrowind that doesn't skimp on the stats and player creativity'. Cleretic has a new favorite as of 05:34 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 05:31
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I'm starting to warm to FO4 and get over a lot of the issues, but I do wish there was a way to say "Hey I'm playing this on a PC with a mouse and keyboard, make the menus not loving suck"
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Nov 23, 2015 05:41
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kazil posted:I'm starting to warm to FO4 and get over a lot of the issues, but I do wish there was a way to say "Hey I'm playing this on a PC with a mouse and keyboard, make the menus not loving suck" That is really confusing to me. Designing and implementing a different menu system for PCs would take a professional team comparatively little time and work, and would generate a lot of good will, yet it is constantly hosed up by so many developers.
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Nov 23, 2015 05:52
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The pip boy interface really drags those games down for me. The bit you actually use takes up like a third of the screen! I'm here to manage my inventory and check my status, and yet most of the inventory and status screen is taken up by Not Inventory And Status related decoration. At least with mods you can make the font smaller.
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Nov 23, 2015 05:58
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Well, considering SkyUI is a thing, it's only a matter of time before there's a FallUI or something.
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Nov 23, 2015 06:17
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2house2fly posted:The pip boy interface really drags those games down for me. The bit you actually use takes up like a third of the screen! I'm here to manage my inventory and check my status, and yet most of the inventory and status screen is taken up by Not Inventory And Status related decoration. At least with mods you can make the font smaller. And it's made just that slightly more annoying when you realize that the whole "you're looking at your arm!" thing sometimes means your menu is shown to you at a weird angle, or it's like positioned awkwardly and not displaying fully because your character decided to try and make out with the pip-boy. Also I complained about it before and will do so again; I loving hate having to scroll through a billion misc items to find the one note or holotape I haven't examined yet. Make a different tab for them!
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Nov 23, 2015 06:32
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