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Crow_Robot posted:I'm not sure I'd describe Thor and Hulk's powers as easy to understand. I mean easy to understand in sense that, if you see them in action you go: "whoah! that dude can fly / fart lightning / SMASH!" VS Normal looking rear end in a top hat, who has regular looking people following / helping him. No visual indication of powers and the mind-controlled people are indistinguishable from regular people.
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Nov 22, 2015 18:45
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I've never seen Agents of Shield but I think it's in one of the movies too where they mention how something is new territory since it's not related to Asgardian technology. And yeah I get how Kilgrave's powers might be more difficult to accept, but after everything else in the MCU (at least up through Avengers 1) it seems silly that law enforcement of all things wouldn't at least entertain/look into the idea. The idea that SHIELD wouldn't look into a man with that sort of power is also silly as previously mentioned, but I most definitely can't fault Jessica Jones for not including that as a plot line. It's just an inherent problem with fitting so many different products into one larger universe. It would be funny if there was a throwaway line in Agents of SHIELD about how they really missed the boat on taking care of Kilgrave. Speaking of which, should I try Agents of SHIELD?
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Nov 22, 2015 18:54
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How would they hear about him ? He makes people do horrific things and then relies on that to keep them quiet because no one is going to believe them when they say they weren't in control. He doesn't have any world conquering plans because he can have anything he wants. It also makes perfect sense that Kilgrave isn't running around making a bunch of attention for himself when he knows that there are other gifted individuals like the Avengers etc.. It also makes sense why someone wouldn't want to call the Avengers or anyone else who was gifted after him because of the chance he'd mind control them. Avengers " We'll Stop you Kilgrave!!!" Kilgrave " Okay every body here murder gently caress each other to death last one standing get's to be my super human body guard" The End. He's not classic comics evil with plans to take over the world. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 18:58
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Hollismason posted:How would they hear about him ? He makes people do horrific things and then relies on that to keep them quiet because no one is going to believe them when they say they weren't in control. He doesn't have any world conquering plans because he can have anything he wants. It also makes perfect sense that Kilgrave isn't running around making a bunch of attention for himself when he knows that there are other gifted individuals like the Avengers etc.. It also makes sense why someone wouldn't want to call the Avengers or anyone else who was gifted after him because of the chance he'd mind control them. Kilgrave is not shown to be a particularly clever fellow. Even if he had hid himself up until the point Trish did her radio broadcast, that should've set off alarm bells for SHIELD. And no one is saying to send in the Avengers, just send in some low level agents. It would literally just take one of them with ear plugs. Even if they did send in the Avengers they could just wear earplugs! Kilgrave's power is not exactly difficult to get around.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:10
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Hollismason posted:
You mean, they would do a reenactment of A Serbian Film? 
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Nov 22, 2015 19:11
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Crow_Robot posted:Speaking of which, should I try Agents of SHIELD? I guess what I'm saying is that if you want to give it a shot from the beginning, be prepared to give it like 12 episodes or whatever, and then another couple to see if you like the better stuff. You'll know the turning point episode because it'll overlap the events of Cap 2.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:13
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Crow_Robot posted:Even if they did send in the Avengers they could just wear earplugs! Considering that they had to find a completely 100% soundproof chamber to keep him in after capture, I don't think "earplugs" is as simple a solution as everyone thinks it is. I just wish the show had actually done this because otherwise they were pretty good about having Jessica and the crew think their plans through.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:23
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McSpanky posted:Considering that they had to find a completely 100% soundproof chamber to keep him in after capture, I don't think "earplugs" is as simple a solution as everyone thinks it is. I just wish the show had actually done this because otherwise they were pretty good about having Jessica and the crew think their plans through. In the finale Trish just uses headphones and that seems effective. The soundproof room is proof that as long as you don't hear what he's saying you're fine. Normal ear plugs are effective enough that you can't understand what someone is saying through them.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:39
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I can get why the police didn't investigate kilgrave. He's pretty smart about making sure no one has any evidence he exist. They showed it's hard to prove and even said that saying you were under his control became a fad defense.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:46
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Crow_Robot posted:In the finale The soundproof room is proof that as long as you don't hear what he's saying you're fine. Except that's not true. Finale: His mind control isn't mind control, it's a virus. He has to be near you and then give you a command for it to work. It wasn't only intentional commands either, go screw, Hi Hank, etc... Also, It wasn't just a soundproof room it was specifically a hermetically sealed room meaning neither his voice nor his purple cooties could get out.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:49
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Heathen posted:Except that's not true. Finale: Finale spoilers: Then why does she wear the headphones? It doesn't need to be a hermetically sealed room. Who cares if you get infected with his virus if you can't hear him.
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Nov 22, 2015 19:51
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Lol like he could ever beat the avengers. Tony would science a way out, Thor would godhood a way out, hulk would anger a way out, Cap would America a way out, Widow would spy a way out, and Hawkeye would be beaten up by Widow.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:04
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Crow_Robot posted:Finale spoilers: More overall stuff. Its a two part problem. You have to be near him and also hear him. With the headphones on she was near him, but couldn't hear him. That's why she was safe. Remember how they kept mentioning the 10 to 12 hour window? That's how long it took the virus to wear off. Remember the Sufentanil? It not only knocked him out it suppressed his purple cooties. That's why it had to be hermetically sealed room at the CDC instead of some studio built for voice over work. If it wasn't sealed he could infect whomever sat at the desk while they talked to him.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:05
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Finale didn't have a big dramatic scene versus the villain, but I guess that's the point. Kilgrave is that bratty kid you see sometimes when shopping who always gets his way and everyone just kinda puts up with it because there isn't a whole lot you can do besides blame bad parenting. Except he's older, still sees everything as a game, and getting his parents involved only made things worse. She's fighting an immature spoiled prick who just so happens to have mind control powers, not some evil mastermind who carefully plans out every move and knows the stakes, like Fisk. Only difference is the mind control, and even Fisk was more influential than him. He wasn't the real threat, the virus was, and the only known way to perhaps stop him permanently failed. Fisk, despite everything, is still a normal human being who's a manipulative and influential rear end in a top hat, something that is dealt with every day by the police. Mind control is a useful tool that can drive dumb people who think they can make it work for themselves to always want it, and it had to go away for good.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:08
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I think I'm at episode 6 or 7. Does Jessica Jones ever wear a different pair of jeans? This show isn't all that great. Some of the actors are OK and others are bad. Some of the dialogue is laugh out loud terrible. Ritter seems more like she's in some perpetual drug haze and mopey, than drunk/depressed/angry/whatever. The fights kind of suck and I don't get how she uses her powers some times and not others.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:26
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McSpanky posted:1x06 It was a wretched, wretched, wretched line of dialog that, was not only terrible and awful and not ever ever ever ever how human beings describe sex with other human beings outside of bargain-basement erotica, but was meant to be the emotive high point of the scene. It's meant to be this hugely affecting and impactful moment as luke cage realizes the severity of what has happened to him. It's supposed to be this moment that the whole season up to that point has been leading up to, as luke literally pauses dramatically in the middle of the line delivery to pull faces to show how morally crushed of a person he is, how horribly he has been affected by this news. It's not a cast off bad line of dialog; it's literally the emotional lynchpin of the scene and the episode in general. It's the button to make the audience burst into tears out of empathy. And it's the worst loving line of dialog I've heard perhaps ever. That's why it's terrible and awful Hope this helps
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Nov 22, 2015 20:29
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The inconsistent use of her powers is something I was ok with in the show/thought was actually a neat addition. Overall spoilers She's very much not ok with being a 'hero' and is not comfortable with her abilities following what happened with Kilgrave. In this canon she wasn't a hero for very long anyway, before the Kilgrave incident. She wouldn't have gotten a lot of time to perfect them/test them/learn how to finesse them.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:31
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Toxxupation posted:Hope this helps Abandon all hope, ye who post here.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:33
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Gaunab posted:I can get why the police didn't investigate kilgrave. He's pretty smart about making sure no one has any evidence he exist. They showed it's hard to prove and even said that saying you were under his control became a fad defense. He also generally isn't out committing high profile crimes. He doesn't go to the bank and demand money, run a criminal organization, or take over places. He walks up to a nice place and tells them to give him food, or goes to a nice place and tells them to give him a room. The only crimes for which any evidence is left are secondary, it doesn't even seem like he tells people to kill other people all that much. Just a lot of people irresponsibly spending their wealth, hooking up with a strange guy for a few months, and inexplicably hurting themselves.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:33
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Regarding attempts to disable/neutralize Kilgrave, it annoys me that they clearly didn't even Google sufentanil. Not only is it just a strong loving narcotic, but there literally is an oral formulation. They at least could have gone with a dissociative agent like ketamine or something to eplain why they needed to break into a hospital, but as written they would have gotten the same effect by shooting him up with heroin. Which in a way would be funny, since once he was addicted he would probably just use Malcolm to keep getting him more heroin and wouldn't care about Jessica. Problem solved!Toxxupation posted:It was a wretched, wretched, wretched line of dialog, etc. tetrapyloctomy fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 20:39
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Also another aspect of abuse is that it is under reported and it's shame or the feelings of guilt that he causes that leads to people just not talking about him.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:41
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The easiest way to neutralize Kilgrave would have been to just loving kill him in the first Goddamn place. Use a loving sniper rifle, who gives a gently caress. If you want to leave him alive in the first time through some futile quest to 'save Hope' fine but after he escapes once and more people die just loving kill his rear end Jesus Christ. e: Hollismason posted:Also another aspect of abuse is that it is under reported and it's shame or the feelings of guilt that he causes that leads to people just not talking about him. This was a super loving neat touch by the way. As much as I did not like the story/plot progression the show realistically explored abuse better than any piece of entertainment I've ever seen. It did such a good job in that respect. VVVVVVVThis guy knows what the gently caress's up.VVVVVVVV trash person fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 20:42
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Season spoilers It was good, but it was about 10 episodes too long. She spent most of the time trying to prove the innocence of 1 girl (who ultimately died anyway) and in doing so she let a fuckton of people die in the process. She should have just killed him to begin with. Also it sucks that he died, Tennant carried that show
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Nov 22, 2015 20:43
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It was important to the characters to not just immediately kill Kilgrave because it actually gave them some sort of gravitas to the situation. Kilgrave would just immediately kill someone who threatened him in some way even in the slightest. Also, season spoiler Jessica probably doesn't want to murder people because she's a good person at heart but really hosed up It's unrealistic to say " Oh well I'd have just murdered him" because it's such a sociopathic thing to say. It's also victim blaming, it's like saying well she should have just fought him off ,or if he was abusing her she should have killed him. etc... etc... Hollismason fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 20:47
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Crow_Robot posted:The easiest way to neutralize Kilgrave would have been to just loving kill him in the first Goddamn place. Use a loving sniper rifle, who gives a gently caress. If you want to leave him alive in the first time through some futile quest to 'save Hope' fine but after he escapes once and more people die just loving kill his rear end Jesus Christ.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:48
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Hollismason posted:It was important to the characters to not just immediately kill Kilgrave because it actually gave them some sort of gravitas to the situation. Kilgrave would just immediately kill someone who threatened him in some way even in the slightest. Also, season spoiler Jessica probably doesn't want to murder people because she's a good person at heart but really hosed up The only reason the show gives for not having the protagonists immediately killing him is we need him to get Hope out of jail. Not out of any sort of moral superiority/love for Kilgrave.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:51
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They make real clear the reasons on not doing that even Patsy says why It's because they want him to live a life of being powerless and to feel like Jessica felt with him locked away knowing he's powerless To be clear saying that again is kind of blaming the victim.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:52
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Valeyard posted:Season spoilers Or she could have just told Kilgrave during his brief flirtation with heroism, "YES, your actions CAN wipe out old debts! Let's go tell the DA to drop all charges!" and then put fifteen bullets in his skull. Also, I don't think it's sociopathic or unrealistic for a well-adjusted person to say "Oh well, I'd have just murdered him," because the characters clearly already believed he was beyond all hope of redemption. You can't jail a man like that. You murder him, or your completely neutralize his ability to use his powers, and I'm not sure they were confident that merely preventing him from being able to speak was enough. The only reason Jessica didn't just tear him apart is because she couldn't think of any other way to save Hope.
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Nov 22, 2015 20:53
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Full Season Spoiler They do actually come up with a way to stop his powers which is why they had the CDC. Simpson burned the CDC to not only get rid of evidence but to force them to only have pretty much one option Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 20:55
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Hollismason posted:They make real clear the reasons on not doing that even Patsy says why It's because they want him to live a life of being powerless and to feel like Jessica felt with him locked away knowing he's powerless To me it sounded like a bullshit excuse to keep spinning your wheels and keep the plot going. Even if that isn't why it was put in there it makes the characters stupid and unlikable.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:00
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Full Season Yeah it is stupid that's the point it's a rape / revenge fantasy on their part, but it also serves the purpose of showing that the characters are not perfect. It's also a reasonable plan and motivation. These are all really hosed up people. Hollismason fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 21:02
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Full season stuff.Hollismason posted:They do actually come up with a way to stop his powers which is why they had the CDC. Simpson burned the CDC to not only get rid of evidence but to force them to only have pretty much one option And it's a stupid idea, because either they take care of him on a daily basis or it's the same thing as killing him, and any time they opened those doors to feed him, or take his waste away, or whatever, they ran the risk of him escaping.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:03
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tetrapyloctomy posted:Full season stuff. Full Season Yeah, but it is Jessica's way of taking back control of her life or she thinks. It's a rape / revenge scenario. She thinks by controlling Kilgrave she'll save Hope and be able to find control in her life. I mean it's a ridiculous premise, but it's clear why they are doing it. Because Jessica doesn't wnat Kilgrave to force her to kill again, which he does. In the end in a way Kilgrave won
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Nov 22, 2015 21:06
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Drythe posted:Lol like he could ever beat the avengers. Tony would science a way out, Thor would godhood a way out, hulk would anger a way out, Cap would America a way out, Widow would spy a way out, and Hawkeye would be beaten up by Widow. 1x3 If Jessica had a gun when she found him in that apartment she could have shot him right there and it would have been over. Like what he does is super horrible but I'm not really buying him as a credible threat.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:10
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Doctor Butts posted:I think I'm at episode 6 or 7. The show picks up a lot in episode 7 and stays pretty good through 11 or so. The acting, dialogue, and fight scenes never improve.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:11
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Hollismason posted:Full Season People generally obsess over revenge fantasies. It would take about three seconds of obsessing over holding him prisoner to decide, I don't know, to at least invest in a ball gag. The desire to control Kilgrave to exert control over one's life is fine, but it doesn't excuse being an idiot about it knowing that he's already escaped your custody before just by hiring a few guys on a security detail, who incidentally already freaking know where you took him the last time you failed to contain him.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:20
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All of that makes sense, you don't necessarily want your heroes reaching for murder as the first option because then you get the Punisher and we already have that guy. The reset button thing is still annoying though.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:21
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Full Season That's really why they fail though. Because their really using Kilgraves methods. 1. Make him not being able to control his body 2. Force him to show his powers Control him totally. It fails completely though. Even the method used to kill him. Jessica points out that Kilgrave never does things himself. That's why it's so important for Jessica to do it herself. I mean she even manipulates Malcolm to get the drugs.
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Nov 22, 2015 21:32
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I'm about halfway through the season now. It's mostly been pretty great, though the episode where she thought she was going to go to supermax was way cheesy for some reason Primarily though I wanted to say that David Tennant absolutely kills it as Kilgrave. Best casting decision in the show, easy. edit: Oh also it's very silly how often Jessica gets shoved around by normal humans. PantsBandit fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Nov 22, 2015 |
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Nov 22, 2015 21:35
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Toxxupation posted:It was a wretched, wretched, wretched line of dialog that, was not only terrible and awful and not ever ever ever ever how human beings describe sex with other human beings outside of bargain-basement erotica, but was meant to be the emotive high point of the scene. It's meant to be this hugely affecting and impactful moment as luke cage realizes the severity of what has happened to him. It's supposed to be this moment that the whole season up to that point has been leading up to, as luke literally pauses dramatically in the middle of the line delivery to pull faces to show how morally crushed of a person he is, how horribly he has been affected by this news. It's not a cast off bad line of dialog; it's literally the emotional lynchpin of the scene and the episode in general. It's the button to make the audience burst into tears out of empathy. And it's the worst loving line of dialog I've heard perhaps ever. That's why it's terrible and awful This post is a good demonstration about how you should never be allowed to criticize someone else's writing.
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