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RabidWeasel posted:It's obviously something their bizarro world marketing team came up with, any normal company would have just sold Horizons at a normal expansion amount and made a package with Horizons + the core game for an extra £10. It's basically exactly the same deal but the way they have presented it makes existing players feel like they're getting hosed over horribly.
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Nov 22, 2015 23:07
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Mercurius posted:I'd personally have just done 'if you pre-order Horizons you get the base game included and can play now' and left it so that Horizons was available for the discounted price for anyone that already owned E:D. I think the main problem is that Frontier seems to be hell bent on reinventing the wheel for a lot of this stuff instead of looking at what works well in the rest of the industry. I don't get why people always buy into the "well that would gently caress over the people who kickstarted / bought in beta" because it doesn't make sense. Locking out new customers from playing now because people who bought it earlier might be upset, so loving what. It doesn't affect me if some person buys the game now and plays it now even if they payed less, I have been playing it the whole time they haven't, that's where the value is. This is going to be true post Horizons so why lock people out right now?
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Nov 22, 2015 23:27
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Rincewinds posted:Wait, salvageable wreckages shows up 5k lightyears from civilization now? Actually up to 9k light years at least, that's where I found my first cloud of debris with a data cache in it. 
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Nov 22, 2015 23:28
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KakerMix posted:I don't get why people always buy into the "well that would gently caress over the people who kickstarted / bought in beta" because it doesn't make sense. Locking out new customers from playing now because people who bought it earlier might be upset, so loving what. It doesn't affect me if some person buys the game now and plays it now even if they payed less, I have been playing it the whole time they haven't, that's where the value is. This is going to be true post Horizons so why lock people out right now?  But yeah, there's literally no reason not to give anyone who pre-orders a copy of the game now. People who already own the game have theoretically already been playing it and have something of a leg up anyway so who gives a poo poo if someone brand new starts. More players is good for the overall health of the game.
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Nov 22, 2015 23:44
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Mercurius posted:Horizons is scheduled to start Beta in the next couple of days and the E:D betas usually run for 2-3 weeks so I'd expect a release just before Christmas at this rate. Ohhhh. I don't feel a pressing need to be in on the beta, but I may as well get the best possible deal. I'll look at a pre-order. Does anyone know if they're going to offer the pre-order on Steam? If so, should I wait for the inevitable Thanksgiving Steam Sale to try to possibly weasel 10% off? Or should I just order from Frontier? Shoutouts to everyone recommending this fuel rat thing - that's definitely the type of space social work I'm into. I'm also hoping that over time more stuff will be added so that there's more that you can do for other people than just give them fuel.
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Nov 22, 2015 23:45
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Danknificent posted:Ohhhh. I don't feel a pressing need to be in on the beta, but I may as well get the best possible deal. I'll look at a pre-order. Does anyone know if they're going to offer the pre-order on Steam? If so, should I wait for the inevitable Thanksgiving Steam Sale to try to possibly weasel 10% off? Or should I just order from Frontier? And regarding Fuel Rats, if anything there'll be more need for them going forward because it's going to be possible for the SRV (moon buggies) to run out of fuel. We're unsure if it'll automatically return you to your ship at this stage but if it doesn't then you may get people asking for people to fly down onto a moon or asteroid and refuel the SRV (if you even can using the fuel transfer limpets, we're not sure yet).
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Nov 22, 2015 23:51
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Sounds good. I'll wait a couple days just in case for the Thanksgiving sale (should be this week), then I'll pull the trigger regardless. The price isn't really an issue. I've been really immersed in the Star Citizen drama, and exposed to a lot of really fantastic space media from that game, and I was already an SF guy, so I just - I gotta do it. And I recently gave up League of Legends, so maybe I can fill that void. I hope there's tons of customization for the SRVs, and different models of them. I want a space Volvo S80.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:14
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Danknificent posted:I've been really immersed in the Star Citizen drama, and exposed to a lot of really fantastic space media from that game, and I was already an SF guy, so I just - I gotta do it. And I recently gave up League of Legends, so maybe I can fill that void. Well if you like space ships and grinding then this is the game for you! :P
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Nov 23, 2015 00:42
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Danknificent posted:Sounds good. I'll wait a couple days just in case for the Thanksgiving sale (should be this week), then I'll pull the trigger regardless. The price isn't really an issue. When you do start playing make sure you join us on IRC because we're making our own fun as a group in this sandbox.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:54
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SciFiDownBeat posted:Well if you like space ships and grinding then this is the game for you! :P Let me turn this into a serious question. Can you grind your way to more efficient grinding? I understand moving cargo is one of the main ways to make money; so you grind to a larger ship, which can in turn make you more money, right? I guess what I'm asking is, is there a satisfying progression in the effectiveness of your grinding in the game? (Assuming you're going about it reasonably intelligently.) Edit @ Mercurious -- I'll definitely stumble back in here looking for advice once I'm actually in there; while E:D might not be deep by legit space game enthusiast standards, for someone like me there's going to be a steep learning curve. Early on I'll probably be one of those clueless dudes that runs out of fuel or something. Danknificent fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 00:55
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Danknificent posted:Shoutouts to everyone recommending this fuel rat thing - that's definitely the type of space social work I'm into. I'm also hoping that over time more stuff will be added so that there's more that you can do for other people than just give them fuel.
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Nov 23, 2015 00:56
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New video by David Braben, this time it's 8 minutes of him driving around an outpost in the SRV after flying to it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFYqfhMfVCk Unfortunately, he had this to say: David Braben posted:The team are still hard at work on the Horizons beta, including yesterday and today (Sunday). A huge thanks to the team for this, and for those that sent us pizza. Unfortunately the issues last week have compressed the timescales, but the game is looking ever better. This has put the Tuesday beta release at risk, and though Tuesday is still theoretically possible, in all likelihood it will be in the following few days before we can release it.
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Nov 23, 2015 01:00
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tooterfish posted:If you're a really good Samaritan it's possible to use cargo limpets to lighten their ship and increase their jump range for them! Sounds like first I have to be a greedlord to get rich enough to be a philanthropist.
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Nov 23, 2015 01:00
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radintorov posted:New video by David Braben, this time it's 8 minutes of him driving around an outpost in the SRV after flying to it: Well I guess it's better to delay to iron out some bugs rather than releasing something and having page after page of 
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Nov 23, 2015 01:12
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Danknificent posted:Let me turn this into a serious question. Can you grind your way to more efficient grinding? I understand moving cargo is one of the main ways to make money; so you grind to a larger ship, which can in turn make you more money, right? There's been a constant improvement in the grind since release, and with 1.5 it looks to be improved even more. It's no surprise most would say the game gets incredibly grindy at the higher ship and component values. Compared to release though, you can make decent money mining, shooting, trading, and now with 1.5 smuggling is poised to become a lot more interesting as well. If you're a trader, the increase in grind efficiency is very direct, you can afford larger ships, with more space to make more money. Shooting people is, up to a point as well, though once you can properly fit a vulture I'm not sure you're income from combat will really noticeably increase. Mining is a lot like trading, bigger ship, more space for ore, more combat ability to defend yourself and stay out mining longer. Smuggling will probably hit a sweet spot with mid-range ships as well, depending on if they do anything about mission stacking. As far as the game in general, i'm sure you'll get your money's worth out of it. Maybe you'll burn out after a while, but I can most likely guarantee even if you do burn out, you'll have probably gotten your 40 bucks worth of value from it before then.
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Nov 23, 2015 01:23
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Tom Guycot posted:There's been a constant improvement in the grind since release, and with 1.5 it looks to be improved even more. It's no surprise most would say the game gets incredibly grindy at the higher ship and component values. Compared to release though, you can make decent money mining, shooting, trading, and now with 1.5 smuggling is poised to become a lot more interesting as well. No worries on value, if it doesn't click for me, that's life. It's happened before. Which is more greedlord: mining or trading?
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Nov 23, 2015 01:28
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radintorov posted:New video by David Braben, this time it's 8 minutes of him driving around an outpost in the SRV after flying to it: Chris Roberts would have said the same thing, only he would have said it three months from now.
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Nov 23, 2015 01:30
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Danknificent posted:No worries on value, if it doesn't click for me, that's life. It's happened before. Trading, mining is this game's equivalent to other MMO's fishing, it's simple and relaxing and can make decent money, but it's slower income than your other options.
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Nov 23, 2015 01:36
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Danknificent posted:No worries on value, if it doesn't click for me, that's life. It's happened before. until you have a gigantic trading ship, I actually might say smuggling might be the greedlord. The way it works with smuggling, the further away you have to travel for the mission the more it pays, so if you go to a system really far away, you'll be able to get smuggling missions for millions of credits each (for some perspective, the first real trading ship, the type 6 costs about 1m cr for the base hull). The trick with smuggling though, after 1.5 will be that if you get scanned, your mission is a failure and you get zilch. So it's high risk, high reward. Otherwise, yeah trading will be the biggest money maker I would say, though after the changes, mining is no slouch anymore. Oh, I should have mentioned, part of the trick with missions, is a lot of them won't be available to you until you've got a certain amount of rep with the local factions giving it out, as well as your rating for combat/trading/exploring (depending on the mission type). This makes trading the biggest bang for your buck out of the gate, and will rank up for trading rating to help having the smuggling missions available in the first place.
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Nov 23, 2015 01:59
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Great info. I'm sure I'll end up doing whatever ends up feeling fun; I have no desire to go tryhard, but I want to be decently practical. I have zero MMO street cred or savvy. I've always wanted to get into one, but there's never been anything that could immerse and hold me. It's just one of those things. Trading sounds ideal, though.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:06
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I've been dabbling a bit in rare trading lately. Basically you hop from station to station and gather a bunch of rare commodities in systems that are relatively close together and then haul rear end way far away to another system, sell em all and repeat the process on the way back in a big loop. I don't think it's nearly as profitable as the smuggling missions but for a newbie like me it's pretty decent money. It's also pretty relaxing once you get going, and you don't have to have a giant expensive ship to do it.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:18
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The beauty of rares trading is you don't need a huge amount of capital to do it, rare goods are relatively cheap at their point of origin. Whereas regular trading in things like platinum or imperial slaves means all your money is tied up in the cargo, which can get really painful if you say lose concentration and boost your ship into the side of a station. Not that I've ever done anything like that.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:27
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The space trucker life? Listening to music or an audiobook or something? I could dig that for a while, at least long enough to get myself off the ground.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:30
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Danknificent posted:Great info. I'm sure I'll end up doing whatever ends up feeling fun; I have no desire to go tryhard, but I want to be decently practical. I have zero MMO street cred or savvy. I've always wanted to get into one, but there's never been anything that could immerse and hold me. It's just one of those things. Trading sounds ideal, though. Zero MMO street cred actually helps you a lot, since you can just play in Solo or your own private group if you want. Running missions a lot actually almost requires this, since you need to log out and then log into another game mode to reshuffle the available missions. Sometimes you just get crap you don't want to do filling up the entire board. Allegedly this should get better with 1.5/2.0 (Horizons), since the devs promised missions replacing themselves faster. Also sometimes other players are just annoying, especially some random fucker blocking the outpost you want to dock with. That always infuriates me.  (To explain, small outposts only have 1, very rarely 2 platforms for medium ships to dock with. So as soon as more then one player tries to dock with a small outpost, you enter what I call "The Last Sucker Waits Game".)
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Nov 23, 2015 02:34
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The greedlord thing to do is whatever system has been unexpectedly broken and pays ten times more than anything else, until they fix it.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:38
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Libluini posted:Zero MMO street cred actually helps you a lot, since you can just play in Solo or your own private group if you want. Running missions a lot actually almost requires this, since you need to log out and then log into another game mode to reshuffle the available missions. Sometimes you just get crap you don't want to do filling up the entire board. Allegedly this should get better with 1.5/2.0 (Horizons), since the devs promised missions replacing themselves faster. Does currency gotten in solo carry over to the MMO angle? You can't just murder someone who's blocking something? In space no one can hear you smoke the griefer?
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Nov 23, 2015 02:42
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Danknificent posted:Does currency gotten in solo carry over to the MMO angle? You can do whatever you want. And everything is connected. For the devs, different game modes are just different ways of playing the same game. Also stations are heavily armed, so I suggest making someone shoot you if possible. You can even grief NPCs: When you scan them while entering a large station through the entry-slot, they'll panic and boost inside, which often leads to a hilarious chain reaction when they crash into everything and then the station opens fire on them. Then you have NPCs sometimes following you around like a puppy, until you either shoot them or they try to get you before you can dock at a station. I had NPCs trying to ram me off the outpost I wanted to land on, for example. Sometimes it's hard to remember only people with hollow radar symbols and "CMDR" before their name are real people.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:54
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It's more of an MMOifyoulike, so you can play solo or just with your friends with the same character as in the open "MMO" part. Docked ships are invincible, although you could try to kill them as they're docking, it's possible if you try hard enough. Stations are well armed though, and they tend to frown upon murder in their vicinity. The most serious offences are traffic violations though, they react really badly to those.
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Nov 23, 2015 02:55
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In space everyone can hear me slam my Diamondback sideways into the mailslot. 
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Nov 23, 2015 02:56
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tooterfish posted:It's more of an MMOifyoulike, so you can play solo or just with your friends with the same character as in the open "MMO" part. Sometimes you read all those chat messages from NPCs begging for their lives. Then you hear multiple explosions. Later you undock into a dense cloud of debris filling the station interior and you can only think: "What the hell were those NPCs doing?"
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Nov 23, 2015 02:58
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Parking tickets.
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Nov 23, 2015 03:01
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Sounds ideal. So my understanding is that the greedlord endgame is mostly geared toward bigger/better ships, and soon moon cars. Is anything else planned to spend money on? Apartments? Bases? I guess what I'm asking is has Frontier said anything about how they plan to raise the wealth/goal ceiling as the game develops?
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Nov 23, 2015 03:09
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Danknificent posted:Sounds ideal. So my understanding is that the greedlord endgame is mostly geared toward bigger/better ships, and soon moon cars. Is anything else planned to spend money on? Apartments? Bases? Multicrew is coming some time next year from what I recall, there are also 2 new ships coming in 1.5 that are going to be even more expensive than the anaconda. Bases are probably a loooong way off if ever, though apartments might happen in a few years after we get the ability to walk around stations.
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Nov 23, 2015 03:28
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Danknificent posted:Sounds ideal. So my understanding is that the greedlord endgame is mostly geared toward bigger/better ships, and soon moon cars. Is anything else planned to spend money on? Apartments? Bases? Well, the ship prices scale exponentially, and the upgrades often cost more than the ships themselves-- the cheapest ship is about 30k space-dollars, with the most expensive for that ship clocking in at ~1.5mil. The most expensive ship right now is 156mil for the base ship, and a decently-kitted out version of the same clocks in at about 600 million. Then you start parking multiple ships for shooting people all over the galaxy, because good shooty ships can't warp very far very quickly. 
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Nov 23, 2015 03:46
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tooterfish posted:The most serious offences are traffic violations though, they react really badly to those. "Loitering is an offence punishable by death" Seriously. The timer is quite generous, but this is some hardcore dystopia where space-parking is serious business.
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Nov 23, 2015 03:50
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I've been reading the wiki for like the past half hour. All I've heard over the past few weeks of following the SC stuff is "E:D is good, but it has no content." But it looks like a lot of stuff to me.
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Nov 23, 2015 03:54
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Danknificent posted:I've been reading the wiki for like the past half hour. All I've heard over the past few weeks of following the SC stuff is "E:D is good, but it has no content." I've said it before, but it's worth saying again: if you approach it like a normal MMO, you're going to have a bad time. You don't "grind hard to get to max level to the endgame", it's "you play the game, and if you don't enjoy it on some level within the first hour or two, you're not going to enjoy it any more a month or two later". It's really telling when you see the thumbs-down reviews on Steam with 200 hours played.
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Nov 23, 2015 03:59
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Danknificent posted:I've been reading the wiki for like the past half hour. All I've heard over the past few weeks of following the SC stuff is "E:D is good, but it has no content." No 'endgame' content. Which is an MMO thing I guess. The content is learning how to fly (and park) spaceships in space, and fight, trade and explore with 'em, whilst earning money to buy better spaceships. And just gawping at how amazing space looks. If you wait a bit and buy Horizons you'll get driving space buggies on planets as well, though no one knows how good that might be yet.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:10
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Danknificent posted:I've been reading the wiki for like the past half hour. All I've heard over the past few weeks of following the SC stuff is "E:D is good, but it has no content." It's more that is has no real narrative, save for some words written on screens that you can easily ignore. You're basically dumped into space and do whatever. If you want a Freespace 2 or TIE Fighter experience, then you'll be disappointed. If you play Elder Scrolls games by ignoring the storyline and wandering around the world doing random whatever, then you'll enjoy it.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:15
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Danknificent posted:I've been reading the wiki for like the past half hour. All I've heard over the past few weeks of following the SC stuff is "E:D is good, but it has no content." The missions in the game are the equivalent of the 'fetch me 10 bear butts' or 'kill 20 dudes' sidequests you'd expect to see in an MMO but they don't really tie in to anything for the most part. There is an overarching story that's part of the meta-game regarding the various factions but it's really there more as a backdrop for the setting rather than the focus of it. That said, they do have 'community goals' which players take part in which often contribute towards the evolution of the in game universe such as 'haul metal to this system so we can build a new station further out in the Pleiades cluster' which the players successfully completed and now there's an under construction station out in Maia (which is a system quite a way out of the 'bubble' of inhabited space that also has a nifty black hole in it). We have our own little NPC faction which was added last patch called the Diamond Frogs which we're trying to expand around to other systems using the in-game NPC faction influence system (which you might've seen referred to as the BGS or background simulation) and so lots of people are involved with that and doing all sorts of stuff with them because it gives us a common goal. At the end of the day though they're just an NPC faction full of bloodthirsty assholes who will sit there and not really interact with anything if we don't do things for them so because this is a sandbox we're kind of having to make our own game content.
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Nov 23, 2015 04:19
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