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A Winner is Jew posted:Yeah, Obama proves that the US was ready to elect a black president, but was sure as gently caress not ready to have a black president. TNC's "Fear of a Black President" is very good in this topic btw
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Nov 23, 2015 19:02
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Bernie and Trump agree on one thing it seems: Pizza Hut. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVmAcULPMu4
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Nov 23, 2015 19:04
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stinkles1112 posted:I mean.... yeah, basically. It was a bad frame for them to pick. You've been found out now. Your brain perceives "black lives matter" as "black lives matter more than other ones." Prove you can be saved.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:04
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" but the activists have to stop and explain institutional prejudice and how power structures DON'T treat black lives like they matter and etc., etc. and by then you've already lost the messaging war.
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kelvron posted:At least they put the 'cheese' on top of the sauce, like the rest of the civilized world. I'll take fake cheese over cold, naked marinara any day. What's the best pizza place in StL? Do they put marinara on top? That's goddamn right they do. For those not in StL, get this: They named the street with a half-decent pizzeria which segregates black StL from white StL "Barack Obama Blvd."
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Nov 23, 2015 19:04
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Joementum posted:Bernie and Trump agree on one thing it seems: Pizza Hut. Don't forget Gorby!
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Nov 23, 2015 19:06
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BLM is a good movement with a bad name
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Nov 23, 2015 19:15
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stinkles1112 posted:I mean.... yeah, basically. It was a bad frame for them to pick. Exactly. Black Lives Matter is too high-brow to be an effective slogan for a political movement because it completely relies on assumed knowledge. Black lives matter only makes sense as a slogan if you already recognize that black lives don't matter, if the majority of people are ignorant of this fact, (which they are) then it seems exclusionary.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:17
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Shifty Pony posted:Provel is amateur hour compared to the horrors that California puts on their pies. There's a place around here that has a palak paneer pizza that's loving amazing. Suck it haters.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:17
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Ron Jeremy posted:There's a place around here that has a palak paneer pizza that's loving amazing. CA has the best food in the nation.  Mexican? Best. Chinese? Best. Japanese? Best. Italian? Ok, we'll give that to NY.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:18
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SedanChair posted:You've been found out now. Your brain perceives "black lives matter" as "black lives matter more than other ones." I meekly submit myself for reeducation No seriously though I guess what I'm saying is that "black lives matter too" would have actually been a better slogan, but it is a good point that the opposition is going to smear and degrade them no matter what the messaging is. It just seems like in the brain of the average person who's not an explicit racist but still has lots of prejudices, "black lives matter" actually IS likely to be parsed as "...more than yours" and it just sucks how easy it is to set up cheap but effective rhetorical traps based on a dumb slogan
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Nov 23, 2015 19:19
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Joementum posted:Shameful, Bernie. smh. Also because I can't imagine it will be very exciting. Comedy option: go in my MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN hat
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Nov 23, 2015 19:19
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Okay, so the argument is : if only blacks expressed themselves better, racist white people would listen to them?
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Nov 23, 2015 19:19
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Raerlynn posted:Fucker I will fight you. We lived in the Flora/Flad neighborhood just off Tower Grove Park, and there was an Imo's commissary right near me where they baked pre-made crusts for distribution to all the stores in town. Every Tuesday and Thursday morning the whole neighborhood smelled like burnt English Muffins. gently caress Imo's forever.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:20
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Octatonic posted:Okay, so the argument is : if only blacks expressed themselves better, racist white people would listen to them? I guess messaging just isn't important for building political movements??
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Nov 23, 2015 19:21
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Octatonic posted:Okay, so the argument is : if only blacks expressed themselves better, racist white people would listen to them? No actually that's extremely reductive, but thanks
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Nov 23, 2015 19:21
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People tend to think protest is supposed to be provocative and confrontational but I think the tea party was so successful because while their protests were stupid bullshit, they were usually out of the way and not inconveniencing anyone.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:21
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Yes, I'm sure that the significant number of people who watched the Eric Garner video and concluded "He was resisting" and "The police did nothing wrong" and "Maybe if he wasn't so fat" would totally be receptive to BLM messaging if only they'd chosen a different slogan.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:22
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pathetic little tramp posted:Y'all muthafuckers just learn korean and get this poo poo over with This article linked to another NYT about the increasing mortality rates for middle aged lower income white people and in an already brutal article this somehow stuck out. quote:The least educated also had the most financial distress, Dr. Meara and Dr. Skinner noted in their commentary. In the period examined by Dr. Deaton and Dr. Case, the inflation-adjusted income for households headed by a high school graduate fell by 19 percent. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/health/death-rates-rising-for-middle-aged-white-americans-study-finds.html?_r=0 Goddamn.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:23
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stinkles1112 posted:It just seems like in the brain of the average person who's not an explicit racist but still has lots of prejudices, "black lives matter" actually IS likely to be parsed as "...more than yours" and it just sucks how easy it is to set up cheap but effective rhetorical traps based on a dumb slogan if racists have a problem with how a minority rights movement label themselves that's the racists' problem, not the group's problem
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Nov 23, 2015 19:23
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FairGame posted:Yes, I'm sure that the significant number of people who watched the Eric Garner video and concluded "He was resisting" and "The police did nothing wrong" and "Maybe if he wasn't so fat" would totally be receptive to BLM messaging if only they'd chosen a different slogan. Those people are hopeless, but there are basically infinite people with no opinion either way.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:23
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Edit: no time to correctly formulate opi ion
Kristov fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 19:24
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Popular Thug Drink posted:if racists have a problem with how a minority rights movement label themselves that's the racists' problem, not the group's problem Actually, I think it might be a big problem for the group!
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Nov 23, 2015 19:24
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For Christ's sake, there is more of a gray area in the public discourse and consciousness than "the cops did nothing wrong, hang the darkies" vs "black lives matter" come on people
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Nov 23, 2015 19:24
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Racists aren't angry at the phasing of "Black Lives Matter" they are angry at being confronted with the inherent inequality of America and they don't want to acknowledge that fact. There's no way to phrase "black people are treated differently by the US government and white people are ignorant of this" without the people who are pissed at BLM being pissed since it's the message, not the messaging they really don't want to deal with. People that are beating a man in a crowd aren't going to treat him better if he says "all lives matter but please kindly remember that black people are more likely to be abused by police and treated poorly by the justice system!" They don't believe that inequality exists in the first place and react angrily and possibly violently when it's even brought up. http://fusion.net/story/184032/black-lives-matter-martin-luther-king-hate-mail/ This Martin Luther King Jr guy needs to be more careful or he's going to alienate white people that would be more down with his cause if he didn't phrase things so poorly. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 19:24
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I think I've seen more people worrying about Thanksgiving dinner with conservatives this year than any year I can remember.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:25
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The Kingfish posted:Actually, I think it might be a big problem for the group! yeah, it is kind of a problem that they are black and they're trying to speak to people who irrationally hate black people that is uh a bit of a sticky wicket there
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Nov 23, 2015 19:26
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stinkles1112 posted:For Christ's sake, there is more of a gray area in the public discourse and consciousness than "the cops did nothing wrong, hang the darkies" vs "black lives matter" come on people Many posters here have exactly two sources of political discourse; DnD and the DnD Freep thread.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:26
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Josh Lyman posted:Speaking of which, he's holding a rally in Atlanta tonight. It's in a location where parking will be near impossible to find, so I'm reluctant to go. Killer Mike is opening for him. We're I not 1000+ miles away I would be there, you should go for me.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:28
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There are these people out there called "moderates" and they don't really have strong beliefs one way or the other until you figure out how to trick them into caring about your cause.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:28
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"we've decided to rename ourselves the 'Movement to Please Treat Black Americans A Little More Kindly'" "what is thisi poo poo? you don't think white people need to be treated kindly? i guess we can see who the real racists are"
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Nov 23, 2015 19:29
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stinkles1112 posted:No actually that's extremely reductive, but thanks You're welcome! Yes, it is reductive, but it seems like we're falling into a trap where the perfect is the enemy of the good, while at the same time condemning a peaceful movement as too radical? I just don't really understand what's being put forth here.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:29
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Aren't Hispanics also treated poorly by police etc?
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Nov 23, 2015 19:29
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah, it is kind of a problem that they are black and they're trying to speak to people who irrationally hate black people No. The problem is exactly that they are NOT trying to speak to an absurd caricature of the entire non-sympathetic public that irrationally hates black people, they are trying to speak to people who genuinely believe they are not racists, even though they still hold implicit biases and support a system that holds up implicit biases, and I put to you that the overwhelming majority of the population falls into the second category and COULD actually be convinced
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Nov 23, 2015 19:29
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The Kingfish posted:There's these people out there called "moderates" and they don't really have strong beliefs one way or the other until you figure out how to trick them into caring about your cause. A "moderate" on issues of racism, discrimination and racially disproportionate police violence is called a "racist."
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Nov 23, 2015 19:29
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I hate these two slogans if for no other reason than it has allowed these dumb rear end "do black lives matter, or do all lives matter, senator?" questions from the media. Obviously all lives matter, but people seem to need reminding that includes black lives too. And very few call out the "all lives matter" bullshit for what it really stands for, which is that black lives do, in fact, not matter quite as much.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:30
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Humans Among Us posted:Aren't Hispanics also treated poorly by police etc? Depends on where you are really. In LA it's probably worse to be black than hispanic. In OC it's probably worse to be hispanic than black.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:31
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Octatonic posted:You're welcome! Yes, it is reductive, but it seems like we're falling into a trap where the perfect is the enemy of the good, while at the same time condemning a peaceful movement as too radical? I just don't really understand what's being put forth here. I don't think anybody has said BLM is too radical, we're arguing that they could improve their messaging. But to a degree you're right, we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, which is why I imagine basically everybody in this thread supports BLM as it is anyway
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Nov 23, 2015 19:31
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If I said "Gold is valuable," would the most straightforward understanding of that be that I think only gold is valuable and nothing else is? I guess it would be, if my name were Ron Paul, but I don't think that's the first thing most people would assume. Countering "black lives matter" with "all lives matter" requires a deliberate misunderstanding of ordinary language. Once you've moved into that territory there's really nothing you can say that people won't do the same with.
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Nov 23, 2015 19:32
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SedanChair posted:A "moderate" on issues of racism, discrimination and racially disproportionate police violence is called a "racist." http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/060.html Vienna Circlejerk posted:If I said "Gold is valuable," would the most straightforward understanding of that be that I think only gold is valuable and nothing else is? I guess it would be, if my name were Ron Paul, but I don't think that's the first thing most people would assume. Countering "black lives matter" with "all lives matter" requires a deliberate misunderstanding of ordinary language. Once you've moved into that territory there's really nothing you can say that people won't do the same with. Saying "All Lives Matter" in response to "Black Lives Matter" requires a fundamental disconnect from reality that is impossible to overcome with a simple catchy slogan. If a white person thinks that what a black person means by that phrase is that black people should matter and everyone else can go screw they aren't going to be convinced by anything that can be summed up in a simple phrase. It's the same poo poo where people claim feminism is all about the destruction of males. The messaging isn't the problem, it's that people don't like the message and want it to go away. It's a lot easier to claim you simply want equality instead of admitting that the equality you claim to exist doesn't and something needs to change to fix that. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 19:32
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zoux posted:I think I've seen more people worrying about Thanksgiving dinner with conservatives this year than any year I can remember. My family has other itself of all conservatives
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Nov 23, 2015 19:32
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