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The Sharmat posted:He was right though and Jessica eventually does see that. He was right for the wrong reasons, there's a reason Jessica is the main protagonist and not Simpson after all, but still. She does eventually do what he argued they should have been doing from the start. quote:Hogarth seems to want it for its own sake though whereas Trish just wants to feel safe after having a psycho abusive mother. quote:EDIT: If Malcom had hit acceptance he'd already have taken her to see where her brother's body ended up. He was delaying the inevitable for similar reasons that Jessica didn't stop to "help". edit: Xealot posted:This first point is definitely supported by the fact that any leering shots of either woman's sex life are squarely focused on the men. The sexual gaze is shifted to Luke or to Simpson (in a towel or underwear or whatever) while Jessica or Trish are generally shown clothed or covered, and never leered at. Except by Kilgrave, through his voyeur photos which are intended as a violation. Snak fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 22:32
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While I do think that the support group backlash on Jessica wasn't terribly elegant plotting, people need to remember that JJ formed that group with the express purpose of milking them for info on Kilgrave. It makes sense that they would end up resenting her.
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Nov 23, 2015 22:33
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Jessica is pretty dismissive of Trish and Malcolm being involved early on, too. It's not just Simpson.Xealot posted:but she never uses her sexuality to manipulate people Yes, she does, in one of the first episodes. Her entire starting relationship with Luke Cage is actually pretty creepy. Snak posted:Well, you say that without knowing any of Hogarth's backstory. I don't think it's a stretch that Hogarth could have once been driven by real fear but protected herself so successfully that now she is just accustomed to operating that way. Hogarth is a very powerful lawyer who is both a woman and a homosexual. While that doesn't mean that she's face discrimination, it wouldn't be hard to believe that she had to fight tooth and nail for her success when she was younger. This is true but I think the scene later in the season where Hogarth and Kilgrave are in the same room and literally mirroring each other's movements the entire time is probably not an accident.
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Nov 23, 2015 22:34
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The Sharmat posted:Yes, she does, in one of the first episodes. Her entire starting relationship with Luke Cage is actually pretty creepy. Oh I agree. I said earlier (as did others) that Hogarth is a mirror for Kilgrave. She shares his philosophy, she just doesn't have his powers. She admires his powers (she literally says "think what we could do if we could harness them"), and she tries to get him to use them for her own ends. I just don't think that it's black and white and that, like all the other characters, Hogarth is human and her motives and personality come from a place of being a flawed and scared person. I think the general message of the show is that "lovely things happen, and you can try to stop them and try to prepare for them, but they happen. The type of person you choose to be afterward is what matters. It might be safest to be in control, but if you hurt other people to maintain that control, you're a bad person." edit: The Sharmat posted:Jessica is pretty dismissive of Trish and Malcolm being involved early on, too. It's not just Simpson. edit2: V I can't tell if you're arguing or agreeing? Snak fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 22:38
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Yeah which is why Jessica is the protagonist and not Simpson or Hogarth or whoever in ascending order of hosed up and power obsessed. Edit: Mostly agreeing. Just saying Simpson's actions I think are ultimately coming from the same place of fear and violation that Jessica's are and that even if he handles it worse he deserved a bit more pity than he got. Granted, they were very busy. The Sharmat fucked around with this message at 22:45 on Nov 23, 2015 |
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Nov 23, 2015 22:40
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The Sharmat posted:Yeah which is why Jessica is the protagonist and not Simpson or Hogarth or whoever in ascending order of hosed up and power obsessed. I also got that Jessica was trying to help Hope, while Simpsons just wanted vengeance for what happened to him. It was a real you gently caress with me I will gently caress with you.
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Nov 23, 2015 22:48
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I don't know if it was purely vengeance so much as he could literally never feel safe or in control again unless he personally made Kilgrave's head explode.
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Nov 23, 2015 22:48
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Soothing Vapors posted:I love the "get someone who doesn't understand English" plan so much There's a bit in Preacher where the bad guy sends foreigners against the protagonist, since his power is if he commands them to do something they MUST do it, but he only speaks English 
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Nov 23, 2015 23:09
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Jerusalem posted:There's a bit in Preacher where the bad guy sends foreigners against the protagonist, since his power is if he commands them to do something they MUST do it, but he only speaks American
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Nov 23, 2015 23:31
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Loving the Jessica Jones Facebook page. With Macho Men complaining about how "PC" the show is and conservative rednecks bitching about the sex and lesbians.
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Nov 23, 2015 23:36
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notthegoatseguy posted:Loving the Jessica Jones Facebook page. With Macho Men complaining about how "PC" the show is and conservative rednecks bitching about the sex and lesbians. How do they feel about the interracial coupling of Luke and Jessica?
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Nov 23, 2015 23:40
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notthegoatseguy posted:Loving the Jessica Jones Facebook page. With Macho Men complaining about how "PC" the show is and conservative rednecks bitching about the sex and lesbians. This show is not remotely PC and it's very cool. Lesbians and sex are two things that are also cool.
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Nov 23, 2015 23:55
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I want to see Stephanie Beatriz from Brooklyn Nine-Nine as Angela Del Toro in a Netlix show so bad. Melissa Fumero would also probably crush it but Rosa as White Tiger? Sign me the gently caress up.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:12
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The Sharmat posted:This show is not remotely PC and it's very cool. Lesbians and sex are two things that are also cool. A woman or minority with any sort of power is PC to some people.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:12
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The Sharmat posted:This show is not remotely PC and it's very cool. Lesbians and sex are two things that are also cool. If it wasn't so PC they would have listened to Simpson and let him take the lead. He took the red pill and everything.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:19
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Gyges posted:If it wasn't so PC they would have listened to Simpson and let him take the lead. He took the red pill and everything. It works on so many levels.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:23
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I think they made Kilgrave too much into Dr. Light. By which I mean they turned him into too much of a cartoonish rapist caricature and his superpower was rape and his whole point of existence is rape and it ended up making him feel pathetic instead of intimidating. And yeah I know I know, "maybe that was the whole point," but I don't mean "pathetic" as in "Wow, I guess rapists really are pathetic people at heart and should not be treated seriously," I mean that at some point I just stopped being interested in his scenes and whatever the show decided to do with him. I thought the "less is more" approach that they used near the beginning of the series was much more effective and interesting, when Kilgrave was more of a fearsome presence. The minute they just let him blather on and on about pointless rapey poo poo was the minute I was, like, "oh great, they're letting him blather on about pointless rapey poo poo.  "
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Nov 24, 2015 00:25
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Gaunab posted:A woman or minority with any sort of power is PC to some people. Yeah its not "PC" at all, just almost completely genderflipped. Jessica is the hard-drinkin gumshoe with intimacy issues, Hogarth is the high-powered lawyer who tanks her marriage by loving her secretary, etc. zoux posted:I swear that one of her pairs of jeans had a dip can ring in the back pocket. Jessica's costuming in general was really great since it looked convincingly like she hasn't bothered to update her wardrobe since she moved to Hell's Kitchen in the late 90s, which supports my theory that "Hell's Kitchen" in the MCU is just pre-Guiliani NYC which somehow occupies the same physical space via comic logic as does current-day Manhattan that Stark et al inhabit.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:26
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Somewhere on reddit a giant rant about Jessica Jones being a generic "stronk female character" to bring in SJWs and reviews from shill journalists is being posted Somewhere on tumblr a giant rant about how Hogarth is depicted as an evil predatory lesbian and I am LITERALLY SHAKING is being posted All is right with the world
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Nov 24, 2015 00:32
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The Sharmat posted:Yeah which is why Jessica is the protagonist and not Simpson or Hogarth or whoever in ascending order of hosed up and power obsessed. This is what annoyed me the most about Simpson's characterization. Especially once the writers' kept derailing him so that he could juggle several different conflict balls in order to pad the series. I think JJ as a show is totally on the ball when its examining the wreckage of trauma and PTSD and how that affects people. The support group scenes are solid gold (except for the dumbness of the sudden witch hunting) and Jessica's interactions with Luke are also gold, because of the way that the PTSD creeps into her life even when she's relatively satisfied and on an even keel. When it starts getting into the actual superheroing, like having Kilgrave appear and his ~drama~ with his parents, then it really drags. Eh. I'm just repeating myself at this point. But yeah, Simpson was treated kinda badly by the narrative for no real reason except to make him into Nuke. It didn't strike me as subversive or deconstructing anything, it was just foolish and boring. Ooooo magical steroids, how exhilarating~ E: BrianWilly posted:I think they made Kilgrave too much into Dr. Light. lmao yeah this too. I'm a woman and I still found him eye-rolly instead of intimidating. The stalker room covered in Jessica's photos was intimidating, poor Tennant just had to work with a super silly and toothless script.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:32
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Simpson is the Barbara Keen of this show.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:34
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Tennant talked too much to stay as horrifying as he was very early in the series and I realize this on an intellectual level, but at the same time I loved almost every scene he was in. 
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Nov 24, 2015 00:40
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BrianWilly posted:I think they made Kilgrave too much into Dr. Light. Yeah I agree a little bit, that Kilgrave becomes way less fearsome and scary when he starts to talk more and we realize that he's just a boy with no concept of love or morality who is fixated on Jessica. But then he casually orders people to stick their hands in blenders and becomes scary again but in a different way; he's no longer this awful spectre from Jessica's nightmares, he's the kid willing people out into the cornfield from Twilight Zone.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:40
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BUBBA GAY DUDLEY posted:How do they feel about the interracial coupling of Luke and Jessica? Blatantly racist is hard to come by. Blatantly sexist is pretty easy to find. Also the two Iron Fist fans being super pissed about the gender switching of the lawyer.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:42
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The Sharmat posted:Tennant talked too much to stay as horrifying as he was very early in the series and I realize this on an intellectual level, but at the same time I loved almost every scene he was in. They did a good transition from horrible mysterious monster to a really immature person with the powers to get away with it. His position of extreme privileged has made it extremely easy to dehumanize people. That's what ultimately terrifying about him: he's not Hannibal Lector, he's a spoiled rich kid who is so used to getting whatever he wants that he actually believes he deserves it.
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Nov 24, 2015 00:50
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Snak posted:They did a good transition from horrible mysterious monster to a really immature person with the powers to get away with it. His position of extreme privileged has made it extremely easy to dehumanize people. That's what ultimately terrifying about him: he's not Hannibal Lector, he's a spoiled rich kid who is so used to getting whatever he wants that he actually believes he deserves it. Yeah, I actually dug that as the more we got to see him, the more obvious it became that he wasn't some powerful, mysterious ubermensch, but a childish, immature little poo poo who constantly complains about how unfair his life is (while getting everything his own way!). Also, I didn't really grasp it until I read it in this thread - but I love that they cast a guy who looks similar to Chris Evans as Simpson, since he ends up being the knock-off, hosed up version of Captain America that is Nuke.
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Nov 24, 2015 01:18
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Just binged this as fast as I could. I had to take a break around episode 10 and sleep it off. That was intense, gratifying, horrifying and worse. The Marvel/Netflix people are really knocking it out of the park treating Comic Book material so seriously and so well.
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Nov 24, 2015 01:30
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The Sharmat posted:This show is not remotely PC and it's very cool. Lesbians and sex are two things that are also cool. Rush Limbaugh got to define what it was in the 90s, and we're all worse off for it.
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Nov 24, 2015 01:44
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I hope the second season isn't as dark. I do hope they keep the "Superpowers are loving terrifying angle" though with all the cases.
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Nov 24, 2015 01:46
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I think the show mostly got less dark as it went on actually but that may have just been me getting desensitized to it.LividLiquid posted:It is, though. You, like most of America, have just been grossly misinformed about what political correctness is. I too have words that frustrate me by no longer meaning what they used to mean for various sociopolitical reasons but you just gotta accept that words change meaning over time.
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Nov 24, 2015 01:49
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I think it'd be awesome if White Tiger and Echo were in the show. Echo is a pretty awesome character.
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Nov 24, 2015 01:56
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Hollismason posted:I hope the second season isn't as dark. I do hope they keep the "Superpowers are loving terrifying angle" though with all the cases. Where would a second season even go? I mean Tennant basically carried the show and I can't imagine watching 13 episodes without him. I'd be perfectly ok if this didn't get another season. Just leave this as a one and done 13 episodes show.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:00
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I'm surprised people disliked the overall evolution of Kilgrave's character. I thought that was one of the better parts of the series. The idea that he was basically the child from the Twilight Zone made him much more terrifying than if he was just 'standard villain man'. I'd be more afraid of someone having the psyche of a child with those powers than an emotionally normal adult. I think his characterization throughout the series was supposed to reflect the idea that people shouldn't be afraid of their abusers. That if you stand up to them they'll be the cowardly little fucks they are.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:00
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Where would a second season even go? I mean Tennant basically carried the show and I can't imagine watching 13 episodes without him. They''ve dealt with PTSD but they brought up the IGH stuff and the origins of Jessica's abilities, so they have an excuse to do survivor's guilt next. Of course anyone that feels Tennant carried the show is gonna have no reason to watch that, but there is stuff they could do with it.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:06
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The Sharmat posted:I too have words that frustrate me by no longer meaning what they used to mean for various sociopolitical reasons but you just gotta accept that words change meaning over time. 
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Nov 24, 2015 02:21
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The Sharmat posted:They''ve dealt with PTSD but they brought up the IGH stuff and the origins of Jessica's abilities, so they have an excuse to do survivor's guilt next. They kinda did survivor's guilt already, what when Jessica had been dealing with all the poo poo since she walked away from Kilgrave.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:22
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Where would a second season even go? I mean Tennant basically carried the show and I can't imagine watching 13 episodes without him. I hope they just keep bringing in Doctors Who as the villains every year
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Nov 24, 2015 02:23
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The Sharmat posted:They''ve dealt with PTSD but they brought up the IGH stuff and the origins of Jessica's abilities, so they have an excuse to do survivor's guilt next. That does sound like riveting television
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Nov 24, 2015 02:24
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It's so weird how a thirteen episode series felt like it was so padded, but then rushed to include Trish Mom, Nuke and IGH as hooks for a second season.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:28
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Trish's mom gets superpowers that make her able to make a person feel responsible for whatever just happened simply by telling them it was their fault.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:30
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