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Both Alien 3 and Resurrection are bad, so what's the big problem with making a sequel to Aliens? Like boo hoo they're making a sequel to the fourth-best Alien movie instead of to the unambiguously worst one. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 02:37
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Blomkamp is a way better director than J.J. Abrams also.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:52
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My main question is which youtube movie rant host is pushing this fanfiction meme.
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Nov 24, 2015 02:59
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Maybe someone's been hoping for a Wynonah-centered Alien for 18 years....
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Nov 24, 2015 03:02
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Harime Nui posted:Blomkamp is a way better director than J.J. Abrams also. Blomkamp is one of my favorite working directors. He gets poo poo for how overtly political his films are but I don't give a gently caress. It makes them fun to discuss.
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Nov 24, 2015 03:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Both Alien 3 and Resurrection are bad, so what's the big problem with making a sequel to Aliens? I'm not very interested in a sequel to any of them. I've seen all those movies before, many times, and especially Aliens has been homaged to death. I can just watch them again if I want to see more of the same. Prometheus was far more interesting for not trying to be a sequel, so I'm hoping whatever Alien movie is being made is also not just trying to be 1,2,3 or 4: Two.
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Nov 24, 2015 04:26
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Blomkamp is also pretty much my favorite director nowadays.IM_DA_DECIDER posted:I'm not very interested in a sequel to any of them. I've seen all those movies before, many times, and especially Aliens has been homaged to death. I can just watch them again if I want to see more of the same. As already noted, Prometheus is a direct remake of AVP. But it's also worth pointing out that the relationship between Shaw and David 8 is basically Ripley/Clemens without the sex. Although people got upset that Prometheus 'isn't an Alien prequel', it absolutely is one. It's simply many other things in addition to that.
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Nov 24, 2015 05:21
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:I'm reasonably hopeful that he won't be giving the fans what they think they want. I find this to be a really weird statement
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Nov 24, 2015 05:28
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I still can't get my head around people giving a poo poo about the not-Ripley characters in Aliens, to the point that a alrge amount of spin-offs and sequels would rather follow tham than Ripley. Or new stuff unrelated to either. Anytime someone (usually Xenomrph) talks about the comics, I just can't believe they'd follow Hicks and newt over Ripley.
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Nov 24, 2015 06:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:I still can't get my head around people giving a poo poo about the not-Ripley characters in Aliens, to the point that a alrge amount of spin-offs and sequels would rather follow tham than Ripley. Or new stuff unrelated to either. Anytime someone (usually Xenomrph) talks about the comics, I just can't believe they'd follow Hicks and newt over Ripley. Have you considered that you don't actually like the Aliens movie?
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Nov 24, 2015 07:10
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Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:Blomkamp is one of my favorite working directors. He gets poo poo for how overtly political his films are but I don't give a gently caress. It No, he gets poo poo because his last two films were incoherent disasters.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:13
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Immortan posted:No, he gets poo poo because his last two films were incoherent disasters. No they weren't.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:16
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No they weren't. Please make Immortan very mad for he is a big poo poo brained dummy and a bad poster.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:19
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Elysium and Chappie get a lot of hate and I just have no loving idea why. Elysium has all these beautiful glamor shots of a fully realized goddamn space colony and Chappy has a dude get stepped on and pulled in half by a meaner Ed 209 what the gently caress's not to love about this
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Nov 24, 2015 07:19
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Harime Nui posted:Elysium and Chappie get a lot of hate and I just have no loving idea why. Elysium has all these beautiful glamor shots of a fully realized goddamn space colony and Chappy has a dude get stepped on and pulled in half by a meaner Ed 209 what the gently caress's not to love about this Even besides the fact that both films are insanely good, they were both modestly profitable. Chappie has already garnered a bit of a cult following.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:35
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Have you considered that you don't actually like the Aliens movie? Yeah, and it's kinda accurate. I like the movie, but I don't love it. And I don't give a poo poo about Hicks, Newt or the other marines. And I don'T udnerstand why people do either. Or, even if they do, why they're so much more preeminent in EU material than Ripley. I don't want to go full Skeleton, but it kinda irks me that as soon as they started making comics they made the Spess Muhreen the new main character instead of the working class woman who had the role before.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:37
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MonsieurChoc posted:And I don'T udnerstand why people do either. They are all major characters who receive a fair bit of screentime and development. They are not as focused on as Ripley but that is why there is an interest in seeing them because Ripley's plot is told multiple times over while their plots are less developed and thus have more room for expansion.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, and it's kinda accurate. I like the movie, but I don't love it. And I don't give a poo poo about Hicks, Newt or the other marines. And I don'T udnerstand why people do either. Or, even if they do, why they're so much more preeminent in EU material than Ripley. Sounds like a personal problem. Maybe youy shouldnt be taking it out on the arts.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:39
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MonsieurChoc posted:Yeah, and it's kinda accurate. I like the movie, but I don't love it. And I don't give a poo poo about Hicks, Newt or the other marines. And I don'T udnerstand why people do either. Or, even if they do, why they're so much more preeminent in EU material than Ripley. I don't really know why the comics sort of excluded Ripley (well, they didn't totally, the thing was they had Ripley appear in some comics but then in order to make it "canon" with Alien 3 it was decided that the Ripley in those comics was a clone----this was like six years before Resurrection, mind). TBH though I don't get how you can not like Hicks. I mean our introduction to the dude is he's loving fallen asleep in a falling dropship. He's cool as ice.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:41
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Harime Nui posted:I don't really know why the comics sort of excluded Ripley (well, they didn't totally, the thing was they had Ripley appear in some comics but then in order to make it "canon" with Alien 3 it was decided that the Ripley in those comics was a clone----this was like six years before Resurrection, mind). TBH though I don't get how you can not like Hicks. I mean our introduction to the dude is he's loving fallen asleep in a falling dropship. He's cool as ice. Generally most of the issues with the comics were due to the weird fluctuating issues with an Aliens sequel. That is also why HIcks and Newt are the starts before they have to be retconned into Nothicks and NotNewt after they decided those guys are dead.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:43
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Immortan posted:Michael Biehn confirmed that Blomkamp's Alien movie would've pulled some Terminator Genisys retcon bullshit by bringing back Newt and ignoring Alien 3 & Resurrection. So what exactly is bad about that? And haven't we known that for a while?
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Nov 24, 2015 07:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Although people got upset that Prometheus 'isn't an Alien prequel', it absolutely is one. Everyone shat on my face when I said this. Also gently caress Newt. And that guy also said Aliens takes place 'thousands' of years after Prometheus so he's probably not reliable.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:50
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Robotnik Nudes posted:Sounds like a personal problem. Maybe youy shouldnt be taking it out on the arts. I'm not taking it out, I'm just stating my opinion. People can like these people and things just fine, I just don't get it. At least, not on an emotional level: on an intellectual level it's pretty easy, because different people will like different character. Harime Nui's description of Hicks, for instance, leaves me completely cold. I've never really liked the military, certainly not in movies, so military badasses have to fight an uphill battle to get me to like them. Or maybe it's because I was a tester on Aliens: Colonial Mariens and now reflexively hate anything remotely linked to that nightmare.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:51
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Military badass? Hicks is basically the kid in the class who sits in the back row and chews his paper to see how big a wad he can stick to his desk bottom. That's why it's funny he ends up in charge.
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Nov 24, 2015 07:58
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Steve2911 posted:Everyone shat on my face when I said this. Well if we're talking about dismissing Alien 3 and 4, it could be thousands of years later, since we last saw them in cryo-sleep. Though he was probably just speaking with hyperbole. Also he's one of the cast members, so probably reliable? I don't understand the hate for the concept, were people really attached to 3 and 4? I know sci-fi fans tend to hate kids in their movies, or at least child actors, but she'd be late 20's and could be characterized in pretty much any way Blomkampt wants due to the time skip. Harime Nui posted:Military badass? Hicks is basically the kid in the class who sits in the back row and chews his paper to see how big a wad he can stick to his desk bottom. That's why it's funny he ends up in charge. He's pretty specifically characterized as the guy whose quiet but competent, and is repeatedly shown in contrast to Hudson who is all talk.
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Nov 24, 2015 08:07
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I don't think any of the Colonial Marines are like, battle-hardened exactly. It's implied their previous outings basically amounted to buffalo shoots. Mainly it's just Apone's contemptuous tone on "somebody wake up Hicks" that tells me he tends to nod off a lot and not in a too-cool-for-this Man With No Name kind of way e: Like yeah Hicks pulls out a shotgun and says "I like to keep this... fer close encounters" like he knows what the gently caress he's doing but he doesn't, none of them do. ee: I mean I guess you could read it as "this guy is unphasable," he just seemed more like the slacker vs Hudson's class clown to me. Harime Nui fucked around with this message at 08:14 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 08:10
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:My main question is which youtube movie rant host is pushing this fanfiction meme. It was me. The author of all your pain.
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Nov 24, 2015 09:48
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Nah, I don't believe you could come up with that on your own. Aliens definitely is one of those movies where everyone's like "hell yeah, best movie of all time, I quote all the lines!", and yet nobody actually has a clue what's going on in the story. As a basic example of what I mean, consider the opening scene where we see the escape shuttle being slowwwly approached, cut open, scanned, etc. The salvage team then enters, looks around, then dramatically pull off their masks to declare their disappointment that Ripley is alive. This whole scene is pretty much superfluous in plot terms; we could have skipped right to the hospital. It exists to kick the film off with some fairly obvious alien abduction imagery. But, like, why start the film off an alien abduction? It's not to fool the audience, because the fact that the abductors are human is fairly obvious from the get-go. The salvage guys are just being straightforwardly compared to malicious aliens. And we should note the multiplicity of perspectives. We start from the perspective of the salvage crew, as the camera approaches Ripley's shuttle from above. We're then treated to three repetitions of the same event: something intrudes on the scene, the camera pans over to Ripley, and then we get a close-up of her face. In this manner, Ripley is first scanned by the shuttle's computer, then by the laser probe thing and, finally, by the human salvage guy using his flashlight.  So, again, why the repetition? Obviously the point is the transition from the free-floating, disembodied perspective ('there's nothing there'), to the alien perspective ('there's something there') to the human perspective ('there's someone there'). Nothing changes except these shifts in perspective. It's also worth noting that Alien 3 directly copied this stuff for its opening credits/prologue. In that film, the prologue serves as both Ripley's unconscious dream sequence and as the POV of the flight recorder (as accessed by Bishop). So, we can say this is basically foreshadowing.
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Nov 24, 2015 10:16
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I always considered it as text that the Colonial Marines, in the movie Aliens, are supposed to be pretty inept as a force as compared to say the U.S. Marine Corps c. 2015. These are basically dudes who fell through the cracks and had to get a job somewhere, or they're kids like Vasquez and Drake who want to fight something in a technocratic future that's obviously post-military. They're not, despite Apone's best efforts, really a -professional- force. I think, SMG, you're suggesting our marines are the aliens, entering an environment that has essentially become naturalized to the xenomorphs, poking around and prodding at it like doofuses until they blunder into its heart. See the way the film is shot, interestingly, is intensely neutral on the issue of who 'deserves' to survive, homo sapiens or xenomorph. We're the away team here. Is that the idea with the (somewhat Kurt Russel-esque IMO) Salvager in the opening scene
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Nov 24, 2015 10:25
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Harime Nui posted:I always considered it as text that the Colonial Marines, in the movie Aliens, are supposed to be pretty inept as a force as compared to say the U.S. Marine Corps c. 2015. These are basically dudes who fell through the cracks and had to get a job somewhere, or they're kids like Vasquez and Drake who want to fight something in a technocratic future that's obviously post-military. They're not, despite Apone's best efforts, really a -professional- force. Yeah, the middle section of Aliens is basically a Vietnam war film in space. The marines are in over their heads and are totally underprepared for when the
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Nov 24, 2015 11:49
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MonsieurChoc posted:I still can't get my head around people giving a poo poo about the not-Ripley characters in Aliens, to the point that a alrge amount of spin-offs and sequels would rather follow tham than Ripley. Or new stuff unrelated to either. Anytime someone (usually Xenomrph) talks about the comics, I just can't believe they'd follow Hicks and newt over Ripley. That isn't to say that a lot of the "EU" stuff didn't miss the point by just focusing on the Marines with their big guns and stuff, but *not* focusing on Ripley was a refreshing (and correct) move. Harime Nui posted:I always considered it as text that the Colonial Marines, in the movie Aliens, are supposed to be pretty inept as a force as compared to say the U.S. Marine Corps c. 2015. These are basically dudes who fell through the cracks and had to get a job somewhere, or they're kids like Vasquez and Drake who want to fight something in a technocratic future that's obviously post-military. They're not, despite Apone's best efforts, really a -professional- force. Like Party Boat said, it's basically Vietnam In Space. At the briefing, Hudson outright asks if it's going to be a "stand up fight or another bug hunt". He sees the combat options as one of two possibilities: either they're going to be shooting it out with human enemies that can shoot back with human weapons, or they're going to be steamrolling indigenous pests that are just too pervasive for colonists to deal with. Those are the only two options he's trained for so they're the only things he knows to expect. What ends up happening is a physically competent force that uses tactics and abilities the Marines don't know how to deal with, and they get hosed. Just like in Vietnam where the soldiers were expecting a "stand up fight", and ended up getting anything but. Edit-- just because it's related, way back in the day there was an Aliens boardgame that let you recreate certain scenarios from the movie (the hatchery ambush, the Ops shootout, etc). Here's a Flash version of it, see how many Marines you can get out of the Hatchery alive! 
Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 12:00 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 11:57
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The games are the worst about it. We basically get Ripley Jr since they couldn't come up with a new character. Then Aliens Colonial Marines is swimming in the callbacks including Hicks which really did nothing to help it. I am one of the people who thinks Alien 3 went in a much more interesting direction than a continuation of Ripley, Hicks, and Newt.
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Nov 24, 2015 12:18
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That's basically it. I wouldn't have liked Blomkamp's sequel to Aliens because I don't want to see any more of Ripley, Hicks or Newt. There are a million other possible stories they could tell in this universe and outside of the AvP spinoffs, the movies, games, comics and other media all seem to focus around 3 people and it makes the universe feel small. While I wasn't the biggest fan of Prometheus and have reservations about Alien: Covenant, I at least feel they bring something new to the universe of Alien instead of being a tired retread.
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Nov 24, 2015 13:20
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Mr. Fortitude posted:outside of the AvP spinoffs, the movies, games, comics and other media all seem to focus around 3 people and it makes the universe feel small.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:14
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Even besides the fact that both films are insanely good, they were both modestly profitable. Chappie has already garnered a bit of a cult following. lol this is like the most limpwristed self-assertion. "yeah they made some monies and a little insane cult following I guess"
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Nov 24, 2015 19:03
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See, now you've already gotten badly confused. The assertion was that the films were 'disasters', and that is simply false. We now have a pretty good idea of why you are (unwittingly or not) attempting to deceive us, but rest assured that it's unnecessary to invent a consensus. You are not insane, and your wrist is fine. Harime Nui posted:I think, SMG, you're suggesting our marines are the aliens, entering an environment that has essentially become naturalized to the xenomorphs, poking around and prodding at it like doofuses until they blunder into its heart. See the way the film is shot, interestingly, is intensely neutral on the issue of who 'deserves' to survive, homo sapiens or xenomorph. We're the away team here. Is that the idea with the (somewhat Kurt Russel-esque IMO) Salvager in the opening scene. My point is that we should take the imagery 'at its word'. The opening scene really is about putting a human face on a rapacious alien threat. The removal of the masks corresponds with the salvage-machine reaching the barest of limitations: basic laws prevent it from tearing Ripley's ship apart, and basic human morality prevents the crew from just killing Ripley to get the cash. You can say that the salvage guys are clouded by conscience, remorse, and delusions of morality. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 20:19
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The good thing about the Alien movies, and I'm including Prometheus in this, is that they feel nothing like each other at all, and all go in wildly different directions, thematically. My only fear with Aliens 2 was that he would go TOO far in the homage direction and we'd get our first movie in the series that crossed similar paths to another (outside of the base plot). I think that's also what sour some people on the idea, and not anything having to do with losing the plot continuation of Resurrection.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:39
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From Scified, new rumors about P:Covenant: “The movie will have 2 Monsters, one is new and both are different yet similar to the Xeno DNA. The NEW Monster is a New Event, so it’s nothing created before the Events of the end of the First movie.... it's created by an event in the movie... and this New Monster is going to be based off of the Original Concept that Alien drew influence from, and this idea is something they had planned with Spaights’ Ultramorph and so Gigers Necomonicon 4 is the starting point. This Monster will be transparent like a Jelly Fish to a degree.... and it’s hinted that David plays a part in its creation. The movie won’t be going the route of an Alien movie, just we will see more clues and things that we can relate and make connection to the Xeno DNA and Bio-Mechanics of the Engineers. The movie will loosely touch up on themes that can connect to the Prometheus Mythos and the Bible but more in respect to the Paradise Lost version of events but again loosely. They won’t be going a full blown Ancient Aliens in detail on us, just we can make subtle links to themes, such as Rebellion, Order of Creation (that has multiple layers that does not start with the Engineers and does not end with David). Stealing of Forbiden Knowledge and Fire and how playing God and going against God always has dire consequences.” This is apparently based on the original script, before John Logan did revisions on it.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:12
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It's important to look at things the other way around: Aliens does not resemble a Blomkamp film, except in aspects of the production design. Blomkamp pushes far more heavily towards a documentary realism in his films, whereas Cameron emulates the style of pulp comics. You can tell that he storyboarded the hell out of Aliens. Even though Elysium and Chappie are not literally found-footage, as District 9 largely is, each shot evokes the logic of having been filmed by some entity. A shot of Matt Damon firing a gun in slow motion is taken from Discovery Channel TV shows like Futureweapons and Mythbusters, for example. Other shots evoke news helicopter footage, surveillance camera footage.... Every shot is from a mediated perspective, be it diegetic or not. Cameron simply doesn't do this. As I pointed out in Aliens' opening scene, Cameron combines a very straightforward narrative style with 'realistic' plotting, which obscures just how bizarre things are. By this I mean that Aliens begins with a literal salvage operation, shot is a fairly straightforward cinematic way, and the alien abduction stuff is firmly in the subtext. It's very neutral. Contrast it with the opening of Alien 3, where a simple electrical fire is shot and edited like an intense nightmare sequence - and it's eventually revealed to be a robot's nightmare.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:12
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NarkyBark posted:John Logan did revisions on it. A case can be made for this to be the worst assembly of words in the English language.
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Nov 26, 2015 01:55
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