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Is Turkey just going to formalize its alliance with ISIS already?
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Nov 24, 2015 14:46
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OhYeah posted:Sorry, living next door to Mother Russia. Don't have a sense of humour. The joke centers around the USA custom of eating a turkey for thanksgiving and quite often people do not cook them properly because they are made infrequently outside of the holiday.
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Nov 24, 2015 14:46
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That Works posted:The joke centers around the USA custom of eating a turkey for thanksgiving and quite often people do not cook them properly because they are made infrequently outside of the holiday. Well I understood that part, obviously. Now I want some turkey. 
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Nov 24, 2015 14:49
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Just read that a Turkish News Agency is reporting that This will end well. Akion fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 15:31
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Nov 24, 2015 15:34
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Akion posted:Just read that a Turkish News Agency is reporting that Turkish soldiers shot the pilot and co-pilot as they were parachuting down. That's a war crime.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:35
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Akion posted:Just read that a Turkish News Agency is reporting that Turkish soldiers shot the pilot and co-pilot as they were parachuting down. edit: Also, the guy taking the video on the left is going to be deaf as gently caress in his right ear thanks to his comrades.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:35
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Let's be clear, the plane didn't come down in Turkey. Nobody is disputing that. But it does create an important point: Turkmen rebels =/= Turkish army. Fighters in Syria shot/killed the Russian pilots. You know, the same anti-Assad fighters that Russia was bombing. Not Turkish army regulars which we are all in agreement Russia wasn't bombing.
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Nov 24, 2015 15:40
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simplefish posted:Let's be clear, the plane didn't come down in Turkey. Nobody is disputing that. Changed my post to reflect that. stealie72 posted:Not sure if this is actually the video, but I'm dubious about them actually hitting him at that range: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPmmtrMJyHs I have to imagine most of those guys have major hearing problems unless ear pro is more prevalent than videos have shown.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:05
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simplefish posted:Let's be clear, the plane didn't come down in Turkey. Nobody is disputing that. Turkey probably thought it was shooting down a Syrian aircraft (since they're relationship was very heated and there's history of that happening). Russia probably was having navigational errors since their aircraft aren't even outfitted with aerospace GPS, just handheld units (Su-24 at least). FSA fighters on the ground probably thought they were attacking Assad forces. Proxy wars are fun. I think this hinges on Turkeys intent. If they knew it was a Russian jet, would they really get any support from NATO after seeing that it was a tiny sliver of land that the Russians intruded on? Heck, the jet even landed in Syrian territory. Turkey probably just wasn't happy seeing how close Russia and the west were getting over Isis.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:07
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edit - never mind already covered. still dude, parachuting pilots? That's cold
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Nov 24, 2015 16:13
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bewbies posted:From Al Jazeera: Well someone's getting thermobaric weapons dumped on them later today.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:15
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Turkey in general seems to be on a slippery slope. The nation at large is adopting a more mainline Islamic stance, mainly as a political move, but it's starting to show some real issue when you factor in things like the recent events such as people disrupting the moment of silence for Paris and that polls show a decent level of support for ISIS. They keep doing things to piss Europe and Russia off it could be real fuckin' interesting.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:17
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I never did like Erdogan very much.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:21
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Mazz posted:Turkey in general seems to be on a slippery slope. The nation at large is adopting a more mainline Islamic stance, mainly as a political move, but it's starting to show some real issue when you factor in things like the recent events such as people disrupting the moment of silence for Paris and that polls show a decent level of support for ISIS. Turkey is a strange, strange place. Most of the younger folks in the cities want to become part of the EU and just have Xbox's and Democracy and poo poo, but the government and the older generations are much more hardline conservative folk. That's the takeaway I got from the few Turkish friends I had when I lived in Germany, anyway. Also, being Greek I got mistaken for a Turkish guy more often than I expected, and learned that they are essentially the Mexicans of the EU. I was talking with a friend on the train who had overstayed his Visa and he straight out said "Hey man, I am going to go sit over there cause you look Turkish and they tend to get visa checked a lot." Also their food is delicious.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:27
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That Works posted:Joke whooshed over your head higher than an Su-24. 0 feet AGL?
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Nov 24, 2015 16:31
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priznat posted:That looks a lot like one of the books I had, by Bill Gunston. Bill Gunston's books had an ENORMOUS impact on me as a kid. His certainly weren't alone, but holy crap did I read a lot of them.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:31
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I like how the article has already been updated to reference the current event.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:39
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Welp. Supposedly related video.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:41
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The thing I never understand about these videos is that the rebels always seem to be content standing around, congratulating themselves, instead of getting the gently caress away from the launch site before someone pastes their asses.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:47
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MrYenko posted:Bill Gunston's books had an ENORMOUS impact on me as a kid. His certainly weren't alone, but holy crap did I read a lot of them. Same, fed my love of combat equipment and slick infographics. I have the whole series along with modern air combat, helicopters, tanks, subs, ships etc. Checked last night and yup, in my bookshelf! Still pretty neat.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:49
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Sorry dopest 80s mil porn was Microprose games and assorted manuals.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:50
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MrYenko posted:The thing I never understand about these videos is that the rebels always seem to be content standing around, congratulating themselves, instead of getting the gently caress away from the launch site before someone pastes their asses. 1.) They aren't exactly the best and brightest 2.) Dying in the "Holy War" is actually a good thing to some of them I'm reading The Looming Tower right now and point 2 was actually a big issue for the beginnings of Al Qaeda. Fighters were going into battle hoping they would get killed, and basically taking all sorts of unnecessary risks in the pursuit of that.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:52
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Looks like Russia is gonna have to send volunteers to some "seperatist" parts of Turkey to help their internal stability.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:03
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Chewbacca Defense posted:Does any know what a SU-24's operating speed would be? People are saying that the airspace violation would only be a couple of seconds but they're calculating it going at mach 1.... There's no way it was supersonic. That's a ridiculous waste of fuel and probably dependent upon his loadout. Probably more like 300-400 kts. Edit: I also disagree with Turkey thinking it was a Syrian aircraft. Or rather, that they would care whether it was Syrian or Russian. Russia has been cutting through their airspace for weeks and Turkey's been pretty outspoken against it. Godholio fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 17:04
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Akion posted:1.) They aren't exactly the best and brightest They're also really far away from the helicopter in that video.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:07
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Godholio posted:There's no way it was supersonic. That's a ridiculous waste of fuel and probably dependent upon his loadout. Probably more like 300-400 kts. I don't know anything about intercept patterns and procedure, but the airspace violation was only over very very small sliver of land. Looking at the radar chart, the F16s looked like they didn't even escort/identify the Su-24, only went on an intercept pattern. Which makes me think Turkey didn't bother distinguishing it between Syrian or Russian. It's probably arrogance on both sides. Now it's a hostile area and tensions were rising, but isn't this the exact kind of behavior that leads to airliners being shot down? Well actually given recent events it takes a lot less, but something like KAL007 or IranAir. Also, anyone have a link to that cockpit footage of Garmin receivers in Russian fighter bombers? Probably from a few months back.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:12
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Godholio posted:There's no way it was supersonic. That's a ridiculous waste of fuel and probably dependent upon his loadout. Probably more like 300-400 kts. Suicide Watch posted:I don't know anything about intercept patterns and procedure, but the airspace violation was only over very very small sliver of land. Looking at the radar chart, the F16s looked like they didn't even escort/identify the Su-24, only went on an intercept pattern.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:20
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Dead Reckoning posted:Source?  Cyan is the Turkey-Syria border. Red is the Fencer. Blue is the F-16.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:27
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Akion posted:Changed my post to reflect that. Okay but again, Turkish =/= Turkmen Some Syrians, of historically Turkish descent, but who were born and raised in Syria, and who are not Turkish citizens, and have an issue with Assad, and are being bombed by Russia, did the dirty.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:27
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Cyan is the Turkey-Syria border. Red is the Fencer. Blue is the F-16. EDIT: It looks like there are four tracks on there. MM041, MM141, HH036, HH037. Dead Reckoning fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 17:28
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simplefish posted:Okay but again, Turkish =/= Turkmen Fixt further.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:29
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Dead Reckoning posted:What's the source for that graphic? Turkey? Russia? Turkey, I assume, since I think Russia is still shrieking about how their stupid plane didn't go near stupid Turkey's stupid airspace.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:32
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Dead Reckoning posted:What's the source for that graphic? Turkey? Russia? Was just about to say, "red" is two different tracks. That's not a very useful graphic without some kind of source, context, and legend.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:38
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Akion posted:Fixt further. Haha, nice I didn't mean to be getting at you. But after Putin's little green men in the Crimea, and how badly I expect CNN and the like to obfuscate the two (Turkmen and Turkish), I wanted to be clear.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:40
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simplefish posted:Haha, nice Oh, I know. Really it's the most apt description, anyway. Yeah, I see this as devolving into a shitshow of epic proportions. Putin doesn't really have much to fall back on other than his tough-guy image and a bunch of corruption. I think it's going to force his hand on this. If Russia had a strong economy right now, he could probably afford to sweep it under the rug, but as it sits this could be really bad for him.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:42
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I think he'll get away with a flat denial on the airspace violation (see also: the MH flight shot down in Ukraine) - he knows Russia is in the wrong but will keep saying 'nope', rather than use it to advance anything As for the pilots being shot, he'll use that for public support to keep bombing in Syria, since it's not directly Turkey's fault In my opinion, anyway, but it's a geopolitical shitshow so who knows what could happen next?
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Nov 24, 2015 17:45
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Here's the original source of that radar track I posted.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:50
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When was the last time a NATO member shot down a Russian jet? Has it ever happened before? e: vvvv yeah I meant Soviet too I guess. fuf fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 18:15
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Define Russian. Korean war might count.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:17
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