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0toShifty posted:I've driven FWD+Snows my whole life. People are loving dumb and think that AWD helps you stop or steer better in the snow. I've gotten into about a billion arguments with people that don't believe me when I tell them if they have 2 good tires and 2 crappy tires, the good ones need to go on the back; even on a FWD car.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:49
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Twerk from Home posted:Colorado is a better truck in every single way, Tacoma is a smarter buy because you can sell it for $5k less than new in 4 years. This. The Toyota is crude, uncomfortable, and offers no redeeming qualities other than being a cockroach you can't kill.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:50
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KillHour posted:People are loving dumb and think that AWD helps you stop or steer better in the snow. I've gotten into about a billion arguments with people that don't believe me when I tell them if they have 2 good tires and 2 crappy tires, the good ones need to go on the back; even on a FWD car. Unfortunately, "people" here includes the California Department of Transportation.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:52
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AWD is rather bad on minivans because the need for additional drivetrain to the rear wheels compromises the whole low+flat floor thing that, along with sliding doors, more or less defines the category. People like minivans because they're easy to get in/out due to the low floors and high roofs. Until electric AWD systems get cheap and common, it's going to be a tricky sell because of packaging.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:53
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Steve French posted:Unfortunately, "people" here includes the California Department of Transportation. Seriously? Is there an official statement about that? Because lol.
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Nov 24, 2015 16:55
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Mange Mite posted:AWD is rather bad on minivans because the need for additional drivetrain to the rear wheels compromises the whole low+flat floor thing that, along with sliding doors, more or less defines the category. People like minivans because they're easy to get in/out due to the low floors and high roofs. Until electric AWD systems get cheap and common, it's going to be a tricky sell because of packaging. There are normal-ish vehicles with electric AWD - The Highlander Hybrid has an electric rear diff. It's got like 25HP and isn't connected to the main part of the drivetrain with anything but the high voltage wiring. The Ford Escape Hybrid 4WD and any of Lexus's hybrid SUVs should also be the same.  Having said that - a hybrid minivan might be the ultimate enthusiast penalty box.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:20
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Mange Mite posted:AWD is rather bad on minivans because the need for additional drivetrain to the rear wheels compromises the whole low+flat floor thing that, along with sliding doors, more or less defines the category. People like minivans because they're easy to get in/out due to the low floors and high roofs. Until electric AWD systems get cheap and common, it's going to be a tricky sell because of packaging. I wish more companies did "mini" minivans like the Mazda5 or the Ford Transit Connect. Does Europe get any interesting options that aren't available in the US?
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Nov 24, 2015 17:25
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MrLogan posted:I wish more companies did "mini" minivans like the Mazda5 or the Ford Transit Connect. Does Europe get any interesting options that aren't available in the US? Yes. 
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Nov 24, 2015 17:35
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 MrLogan posted:I wish more companies did "mini" minivans like the Mazda5 or the Ford Transit Connect. Does Europe get any interesting options that aren't available in the US? Australia didn't even get the mazda 5. They didn't think they'd sell I guess, only offered cuvs (cx7, tribute)
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Nov 24, 2015 17:37
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MrLogan posted:I wish more companies did "mini" minivans like the Mazda5 or the Ford Transit Connect. Does Europe get any interesting options that aren't available in the US? Canada gets the chevy orlando which is a 7 seater based on the cruze. 
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Nov 24, 2015 17:39
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Powershift posted:Canada gets the chevy orlando which is a 7 seater based on the cruze. Unfortunately(?), it was discontinued last year.
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Nov 24, 2015 17:54
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moxieman posted:Should've bought the minivan and a set of snow tires. FWD + snows > AWD and all seasons I've lived in Wisconsin my whole life and I've found that snow tires are just plain unnecessary for the type of car you're likely to be DDing. I've never gotten stuck, gone into a slide, or anything else on plain old all seasons. Swapping out your wheels twice a year is a pain in the rear end, and if you're staying within a reasonable percentage of the speed limit you're almost never going to need the extra grip unless it's so snowy that the visibility should keep you from driving anyway.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:23
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Depends on where you live and what kind of winter weather you get. I've heard other similar comments from folks in the Midwest. In Maine I've found that the amount of wet snow, slush, and ice coupled with the fact that most workplaces do not shut down for snow evah necessitates snow tires. I opt for studded ones and just drive to work my normal speed in blizzards not giving any fucks about whether the plow trucks are out yet or not. Edit: and swapping tires is only a pain if you don't have a garage and separate wheels for your snows.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:28
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Powershift posted:Canda, Orlando, Picture of Eiffel tower this I find someway funny.
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Nov 24, 2015 18:36
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LeftistMuslimObama posted:I've lived in Wisconsin my whole life and I've found that snow tires are just plain unnecessary for the type of car you're likely to be DDing. I've never gotten stuck, gone into a slide, or anything else on plain old all seasons. Swapping out your wheels twice a year is a pain in the rear end, and if you're staying within a reasonable percentage of the speed limit you're almost never going to need the extra grip unless it's so snowy that the visibility should keep you from driving anyway. Yeah, this was my grandpa's attitude, living in eastern Canada his whole life. "I don't need snow tires, I've been driving for fifty years and never had any problems in the winter, it's a waste of money." Then, after we finally convinced him: "Holy poo poo! These tires really work in the snow, you know that?" I think you're just plain foolish for conflating "extra grip" with the speed you're going, too. The ground traction doesn't change whether you're going a hundred miles an hour or ten, just the results of the accident. Maybe you have a different idea of "so snowy that it keeps you from driving" than most people do. Oh, and changing out the wheels is nothing. You pay once for a set of tires and four cheap steelies, and it takes half an hour with a breaker bar and torque wrench to change the wheels over in your driveway. Swapping all three of our cars' wheels for the snow tires started being one of my chores when I was like 13 years old and it still would only take an afternoon. KillHour posted:Seriously? Is there an official statement about that? Because lol. I wouldn't be surprised. When I moved to California, I had to take the written portion of the motorcycle test to convert my out-of-state license over. I got three questions wrong, all of them about lane positioning, because when I learned to ride I was taught about all the different situations that require you to be on either the left or right side of the lane for safety. Preventing cars from trying to share your lane, riding in the tire track of the vehicle ahead because it's swept clean of glass, and avoiding the center of the lane in general because it has all the oil and coolant splotches. I got all of the lane positioning questions wrong because in California you are apparently supposed to ride in the middle of the lane, always. Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 19:23
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The other cool thing about snow tires is you get four+ months less wear on your regular tires and can also ditch the all seasons for performance summer tires.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:24
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moxieman posted:The other cool thing about snow tires is you get four+ months less wear on your regular tires and can also ditch the all seasons for performance summer tires. Do you guys typically use summer tires on daily drivers and use them in the rain? I have summers on my corvette but I make it a point to not drive that if the forecast calls for rain. I've been caught in the wet a few times which isn't a big deal, I just drive more carefully, but those are usually minor drizzlings. I'd hate to get caught in a huge thunderstorm with them.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:45
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Anyone get Allweather tires? I got a new car and am considering just going allweather (good in snow) rather than doing the winter tires & rims. Or might minus size from a 19" to 17" for the winter tire/rims. So torn. The car comes with a decent set of michelins so I probably should just get a separate set, but not having to swap em twice yearly appeals to me.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:48
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Summer tires aren't slicks. I have them on my S4 and I've never hesitated to drive in any weather as long as the temperature was up. I did get caught out by a freak early snowstorm a couple years ago, and dedicated that summer tires would get me to the grocery store OK. They got me to the grocery store unharmed, but I swear that fifteen minute drive (which is about seven minutes in clear weather) got my heart pounding more than fifteen minutes of vigorous exercise would have. Never again. I'd rather change wheels and eat dinner at 10pm than try to use summer tires on a snowy road. Edit: I learned driving on all weather tires. They're the default for most cars. They're much inferior to dedicated winter tires on snow and ice. I'd never go back to all weather tires, myself. I can find ways to fudge around bad traction when I'm accelerating or cornering, but you never know how much braking force you might need until the moment arrives. Zorak of Michigan fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 20:49
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Rain is surprisingly scary on really wide summer tires.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:51
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Let's not forget there is a wide range of performance categories which fall under the "summer tire" umbrella. I don't think anyone would suggest you buy G-force Rivals for your Mazda 3 to drive all summer in the PNW. (If that's even when it rains out there, I have no idea, but you get the point)
moxieman fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 20:58
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There's a wide range of categories of all tires. I'm running all seasons on my WRX right now instead of summers, but they are Pilot Sport A/S 3. That means that they actually embarrass quite a few 'summer' tires (like continental DW) while at the same time not giving up performance when it gets below 40 degrees. I can run these far later into the year than I could summer tires since they can handle up to a dusting of snow. I can basically wait until they actually forecast a storm before I swap the winters on. I've also run DWS all season tires on my WRX back to back with ExtremeWinterContacts and honestly the difference wasn't as pronounced as you would think. Modern compounds and designs are really drat impressive. The tire category that has seen the most leaps in performance in the past ten years has been all-season by far. About the only difference between a good all-season and a 'performance' winter tire (like the wintersport 4d) is a slightly more aggressive tread design. Their compounds are very similar. Also, everything is poo poo on ice unless you have studs and that's just not practical or even legal for most people. bull3964 fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 21:19
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KillHour posted:Seriously? Is there an official statement about that? Because lol. In Washington, when driving in the mountains during wintertime, WSDOT will require chains on non-AWD vehicles at the slightest sign of inclement weather. Doesn't matter if you've got brand new top of the line winter tires on your 2WD versus someone in a lovely fake-AWD CUV with balding all seasons, you'll still be the one getting the ticket if the the state patrol hassles you. In actuality they aren't checkpointing people, but it's still a legal concern if you were to get into an accident or get stuck and need assistance. That reason alone is enough to push me toward an AWD car for my next outdoors/winter beater.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:31
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The funny thing is I live in Buffalo, and AFAIK, chains are illegal. Edit: Yep. quote:35-a. It shall be unlawful to operate a motor vehicle or trailer equipped with tires having metal objects protruding from the tire tread upon any public highway. The prohibition contained in this section shall not apply to pneumatic tires containing metal type studs, the diameter of which studs inclusive of the stud casing does not exceed three-eighths of an inch and which do not protrude beyond the tread surface of such tires more than three thirty-seconds of an inch and the contact area of which does not exceed three-fourths of one per cent of the total nominal contact area of said tires determined by multiplying the circumference of the outer most edge of tread times the tread width, except that no vehicle equipped with such tires, other than school buses and state or municipally-owned vehicles, may operate on a public highway during the period from the first day of May to the fifteenth day of October, inclusive. KillHour fucked around with this message at 21:49 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 21:40
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KillHour posted:Seriously? Is there an official statement about that? Because lol. I don't know if there are any statements anywhere saying as much explicitly, but in snowy areas in the winter they impose chain control on highways: most commonly in real person terms, this means that when chain control is in effect (i.e. there's more than like, an inch of snow on the road) you either need AWD/4WD with all season or snow tires on all 4, or chains. My understanding is that there are other states that technically require this as well, but in California, on major highways (e.g. I-80 and US-50, the two main routes up to the Lake Tahoe area), it's actually enforced with checkpoints. To me, this is an implicit statement to California drivers about AWD/4WD being superior in the snow. Note that Caltrans' actually says AWD/4WD vehicles need "snow tires", but their definition is a bit different than you'd probably expect. quote:"A 'snow-tread tire' is a tire which has a relatively deep and aggressive tread pattern compared with conventional passenger tread pattern". Snow-tread tires can be identified by examining the sidewall of the tire where the letters MS, M/S, M+S or the words MUD AND SNOW have been stamped into the sidewalls. http://www.dot.ca.gov/dist3/departments/mtce/tireschains.htm In practice, they always skip straight from no chain control to R-2, and from R-2 to a road closure. I grew up driving 2WD cars in Syracuse and moved out here later, so I personally find this requirement obnoxious as someone who travels in the mountains regularly in the winter. As a result, I don't really ever consider buying 2WD cars, not because I don't think they're capable in the snow, but simply because chains are a pain in my rear end.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:42
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KillHour posted:The funny thing is I live in Buffalo, and AFAIK, chains are illegal. Pretty sure that quote of yours just says that studded tires are illegal from May through October, i.e. decidedly not-winter time. Most/all states outlaw studded tires when it is not winter time.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:15
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Guinness posted:Pretty sure that quote of yours just says that studded tires are illegal from May through October, i.e. decidedly not-winter time. Hmm, you might be right. Still, I've never seen anyone use tire chains here.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:50
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Just an anecdote but on the steep snowy roads here in Colorado the only cars you see flipped over on the side of the road during storms are big SUVs. A/4WD gives people a confidence they shouldn't have on lovely all season tires, especially during those first few storms since apparently six months of sun makes people completely forget how reduced traction works, even people who have always lived here. I've never had a problem in FWD cars, last time I put chains on was in the 90s. Even spent a few years commuting every day on the snowiest pass in Colorado in a lovely old Camry. Good snow tires and plow trucks work great, unless you have a really long private driveway that is super steep AWD isn't going to do anything for you.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:17
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Every vehicle flipped on side of the road is a Jeep Wrangler in Colorado.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:52
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Rigged Death Trap posted:this I find someway funny. French Canada  It was the only pic I could find that would give an indication of its size.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:15
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Zorak of Michigan posted:Summer tires aren't slicks. I have them on my S4 and I've never hesitated to drive in any weather as long as the temperature was up. I did get caught out by a freak early snowstorm a couple years ago, and dedicated that summer tires would get me to the grocery store OK. They got me to the grocery store unharmed, but I swear that fifteen minute drive (which is about seven minutes in clear weather) got my heart pounding more than fifteen minutes of vigorous exercise would have. Never again. I'd rather change wheels and eat dinner at 10pm than try to use summer tires on a snowy road. I drove the whole of last winter on my Yokohama AD08s. I found that it snows here rarely enough that I could just walk to work/back if it was bad enough, so I put off buying winter tires. This was working out quite well, and regular rain or slush wasn't much of a problem. Until I was at my parent's place about 20 minutes away and it snowed just enough to create a thin layer of fresh snow on the roads. To say that I had little traction would be an understatement, I barely made it out of the driveway, spun the wheels in 3rd gear (of a Miata!) with very little throttle, and had to continuously provide steering input to keep the car pointing straight. Even though things were fine once I got to a more popular road, these 5 minutes were properly terrifying.
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Nov 25, 2015 01:00
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bay area problems: it never snows so I don't buy snow tires, but it does freeze plenty in the winter so I can't go with summer tires
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Nov 25, 2015 02:55
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Pilot Sport A/S 3s were basically designed for that.
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Nov 25, 2015 02:59
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bull3964 posted:Pilot Sport A/S 3s were basically designed for that. I've been less than thrilled with the AS3s on my Saabaru. The wet performance is ho-hum, the dry performance is lackluster. They are terrible on ice and snow. I honestly had better luck in all categories with the Ventus V12s that the PO had on the car when I bought it. E: I have studded Altimax Arctics for snow/ice now but haven't gotten to try them out yet. When the AS3s are done I'll switch to something more summery for the 363 days/year it doesn't snow here. blk fucked around with this message at 03:16 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 03:04
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Thinking about ordering one them new Colorado diesels... Been wanting a diesel midsize pickup for a couple years after Nissan tested the waters with the Frontier Cummins (which they never made). Any reason not to? Price I am getting from the place in Kellogg, Id is about $1700 below MSRP. Not terribly low but can't expect a whole lot for a truck that all the dealers I called told me they won't have a model on the lot until February-June next year. So, bargaining power is limited.
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Nov 25, 2015 03:21
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nollij posted:Thinking about ordering one them new Colorado diesels... Been wanting a diesel midsize pickup for a couple years after Nissan tested the waters with the Frontier Cummins (which they never made). That diesel is a $4000 option over the 3.6. It would take around 180,000 miles to pay for the difference at $3 a gallon. That's not considering urea, but that's not a serious cost. What is a serious cost is anything that could go wrong. injection system, turbo, aftertreatment. All going to be a serious expense, sometimes with no aftermarket option. A quick look suggests a few dealers still have 2015s, which you might be able to get at a huge discount as well. Is there any specific reason you want the diesel?
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Nov 25, 2015 03:35
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blk posted:I've been less than thrilled with the AS3s on my Saabaru. The wet performance is ho-hum, the dry performance is lackluster. They are terrible on ice and snow. I honestly had better luck in all categories with the Ventus V12s that the PO had on the car when I bought it. Can't say I agree. Wet performance has been amazing, especially in heavy downpours. I haven't driven anything with better hydroplaning performance. I've found they grip in the dry nearly as well as a set of RS3s.
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Nov 25, 2015 03:38
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Powershift posted:That diesel is a $4000 option over the 3.6. It would take around 180,000 miles to pay for the difference at $3 a gallon. That's not considering urea, but that's not a serious cost. Will be hauling the car around in-state and down to California. Will probably hold onto the truck for 20+ years. I drive 110 miles a day for work (put 80,000 miles on my car in the last 3.5 years). I like the diesel torque and all the bells that will make my life easier towing. I can fix poo poo myself when it goes out of warranty.
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Nov 25, 2015 03:44
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In that case, it makes perfect sense if you live somewhere where you can pull the DPF off.
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Nov 25, 2015 03:54
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bull3964 posted:Can't say I agree. Wet performance has been amazing, especially in heavy downpours. I haven't driven anything with better hydroplaning performance. I've found they grip in the dry nearly as well as a set of RS3s. The AS/3s were great on my E55. But they should be for what I paid for them
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