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To make a serious post, I think it is a character arc exploring "toxic masculinity" but not primarily for the reasons people are saying. All of Simpson's actions aren't so much born from him being a typical man or whatever that wants the bitches to go back in the kitchen. It's because as an extremely masculine dude that was in the special forces and everything, he is expected to get poo poo done, to fixate on results, and ignore the emotional side of what's happened to him and everyone around him. This causes him to develop huge target fixation where he wants to kill Kilgrave (good), personally, to feel safe, powerful, and in control (bad) to the detriment of everyone around him. If he could have just had a meltdown or something, vented, hugged it out, whatever, instead of just fixing it and fixing it now, he'd probably have been better off. If that makes any sense. EDIT: tl;dr, cultural expectation is that women express their emotions while men find solutions, and this hurts both sexes
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Nov 24, 2015 20:41
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I liked the show quite a bit despite its deviation from the comic I kind of wish they'd have stuck with the comic "He never forced me to have sex with him, instead he forced me to watch him with other women and wish I was them" because that was so drat sadistic. Also wish we'd gotten the "everyone you're breathing too loud" scene, but oh well.. However, the one part that I literally screamed "oh come on this is terrible" was when 1x10 (I think) Simpson was attacking them and they did the whole 'NOW I NEED TO TAKE HIS MAGIC PILLS TO BEAT HIM' trope.. Pulled me out of the storyline. I also wish there had been more actual detective work and a few episodes not focusing on Killgrave, but oh well. Still solid.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:49
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The Sharmat posted:Saying that just indicates how much toxic masculinity you have. Make this the new response to everything in this thread, tyvm.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:57
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Medullah posted:I liked the show quite a bit despite its deviation from the comic I kind of wish they'd have stuck with the comic "He never forced me to have sex with him, instead he forced me to watch him with other women and wish I was them" because that was so drat sadistic. Also wish we'd gotten the "everyone you're breathing too loud" scene, but oh well.. However, the one part that I literally screamed "oh come on this is terrible" was when 1x10 (I think) Simpson was attacking them and they did the whole 'NOW I NEED TO TAKE HIS MAGIC PILLS TO BEAT HIM' trope.. Pulled me out of the storyline. I also wish there had been more actual detective work and a few episodes not focusing on Killgrave, but oh well. Still solid. It's sadistic but then just why? It'd be really weird and pointless for him to do that. And when Simpson took the pills I was like "Oh poo poo! They put Nuke in here!" I just can't get upset when seeds are planted for future villains.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:36
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Yeah "lack of disturbing abuse" isn't on my list of problems with the show.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:38
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Medullah posted:I liked the show quite a bit despite its deviation from the comic I kind of wish they'd have stuck with the comic "He never forced me to have sex with him, instead he forced me to watch him with other women and wish I was them" because that was so drat sadistic. Also wish we'd gotten the "everyone you're breathing too loud" scene, but oh well. Sure, it's sadistic, but it's also cartoonish. The point of Kilgrave as depicted on the show is that he's a man who can do anything he wants to, and he wants to be with Jessica. And they did reference that latter scene you mention, but actually killing a room full of people would overshadow most of his other actions.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:47
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Gaunab posted:It's sadistic but then just why? It'd be really weird and pointless for him to do that. To be fair "sadistic, weird, and pointless" describes a lot of sexual deviancies. But it really wouldn't have been useful for the show.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:51
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I'm currently re-reading Alias (the whole thing is on sale for less than $30 on comixology if you're interested) and they pull quite a bit of dialogue directly from the comics as well as some visuals. In the first issue, after JJ and Luke Cage have sex there's this panel:  It's one of the more enduring panels from the comic. In the second (?) episode, when JJ walks back in the room post-coitus, they pose Mike Colter in the exact position for just a second. Also the "pull this bullet out of my $500 leather jacket and shove it up your rear end" line is directly out of the comics, as well as some others that I can't recall off the top of my head.
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Nov 24, 2015 21:53
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Mameluke posted:Sure, it's sadistic, but it's also cartoonish. The point of Kilgrave as depicted on the show is that he's a man who can do anything he wants to, and he wants to be with Jessica. And they did reference that latter scene you mention, but actually killing a room full of people would overshadow most of his other actions. Ah did they? I may have missed a few things binging as I did. I suppose you're right though. This Killgrave was definitely more "realistic".
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Nov 24, 2015 21:53
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The Sharmat posted:To be fair "sadistic, weird, and pointless" describes a lot of sexual deviancies. But it really wouldn't have been useful for the show. "Jessica, put this tail on. Jessica. No, Jessica, the tail's not a belt, it goes *in*, Jessica, not around. Don't be so bloody stupid. Now crawl around and meow, Jessica."
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Nov 24, 2015 21:58
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I laughed, but I feel guilty about laughing.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:02
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The Sharmat posted:I laughed, but I feel guilty about laughing. You chose to laugh, Sharmat. You chose.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:13
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The Sharmat posted:EDIT: tl;dr, cultural expectation is that women express their emotions while men find solutions, and this hurts both sexes You could replace Simpson with Jessica in that post and have it be totally acurate. She spent the majority of the season abusing her relationships and putting huge ammounts of people at risk to achive her goals. I'd make the case that people cherry picking tumbler thoughts from every peice of media hurts more.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:27
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Everyone is the series is using/abusing everyone around them. Except Hope. Which is why her name is Hope.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:34
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Jimlit posted:You could replace Simpson with Jessica in that post and have it be totally acurate. She spent the majority of the season abusing her relationships and putting huge ammounts of people at risk to achive her goals. plz sir......... control yr toxic masculinity 
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Nov 24, 2015 22:38
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Crow_Robot posted:Everyone is the series is using/abusing everyone around them. Au contrare she is abusing her self! Also if you guys aren't interested in psychosexual gender role analysis of this show bad news: it's the whole point of the show.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:38
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Jimlit posted:I'd make the case that people cherry picking tumbler thoughts from every peice of media hurts more. It mostly just hurts the quality of internet posting. zoux posted:Also if you guys aren't interested in psychosexual gender role analysis of this show bad news: it's the whole point of the show. I think the whole point of the show is abuse in general rather than that specific version of it.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:39
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So I here's the basic reason that I think JJ is has more engaging drama than DD. In Daredevil, Matt "wants to kill Fisk" because of general injustice. Fisk hurts other people and this makes Matt mad. Matt toys with the idea of killing him, because it would be for the greater good, but everyone in his life tells him that it would be traumatic to Matt if he became a murderer. Since Matt didn't need to kill Fisk to stop him, he just doesn't and remains a hero. In Jessica Jones, Jessica is traumatize by being a personal victim of Kilgrave and by having killed while under his control. She tries to take Kilgrave down without killing him, but ultimate accepts that that's not a viable solution and he needs to be put down. By comparison, Matt's "dilemma" seems like something out of Fable: press X to be good, press B to be evil. Matt lives in a strange world where not killing people is as easy as bashing their head with your fists as hard as you can, while Jessica Jones lives in a world where people are much more fragile.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:42
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zoux posted:Au contrare she is abusing her self! I think the point is that leaning on "man bad woman good" level of analysis is doing a disservice to the show.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:44
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The Sharmat posted:It mostly just hurts the quality of internet posting. Sure but it's a show that lends itself to multiple readings and complex themes that are going to come down on the "SJW" side of things. I'm honestly surprised there hasn't been a huge MRA backlash yet.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:44
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Snak: I think you're selling Daredevil a bit short there since people actually kind of highlight the absurdity of Matt's position quite a bit, and also the difficulty of not killing Fisk primarily came from just how badly Matt wanted to.zoux posted:Sure but it's a show that lends itself to multiple readings and complex themes that are going to come down on the "SJW" side of things. 4chan hates it but loved Daredevil, so there's that. It kind of depends on how you define "SJW" and "MRA".
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Nov 24, 2015 22:44
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Medullah posted:Ah did they? I may have missed a few things binging as I did. Yeah, he shuts up a restaurant in I think episode 5 or 6 while tracking down Jessica's childhood home.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:53
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Simpson did nothing wrong everyone would've been better off if they just listened to the white guy.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:55
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Junkfist posted:Simpson did nothing wrong everyone would've been better off if they just listened to the white guy. Cops are always right. And a white cop...they're the rightest.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:56
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White ex-military cop that understands the necessity of war and fully supports all military decisions made by the United States government
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Nov 24, 2015 22:58
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Medullah posted:I liked the show quite a bit despite its deviation from the comic I kind of wish they'd have stuck with the comic "He never forced me to have sex with him, instead he forced me to watch him with other women and wish I was them" because that was so drat sadistic. Also wish we'd gotten the "everyone you're breathing too loud" scene, but oh well.. However, the one part that I literally screamed "oh come on this is terrible" was when 1x10 (I think) Simpson was attacking them and they did the whole 'NOW I NEED TO TAKE HIS MAGIC PILLS TO BEAT HIM' trope.. Pulled me out of the storyline. I also wish there had been more actual detective work and a few episodes not focusing on Killgrave, but oh well. Still solid. Comic Killgrave and Netflix Killgrave are two totally different beasts. In the comic Killgrave's relationship with Jessica is built on hatred and vengeance toward heroes. He purposefully is as vile and hateful to her as possible because Daredevil shat in his Wheaties that one time and Spiderman was a total dick about stopping his assholery. On the other hand, in the show Killgrave's relationship with Jessica is built on twisted, hosed up, possessive "love". He doesn't hate her, he wants her, longs for her, is determined to make her love him. Netflix Killgrave isn't looking to hurt her on purpose unless that's what it takes to make her be with him. He briefly toys with the idea of making her suffer for not being with him, but decides against it. Only returning to the idea at the end when he realizes he can't control her anymore, even with his dad's upgrades to his power. Comic Killgrave is comic villainous. Netflix Killgrave is a selfish, egotistical, monster that largely hurts others through callous disregard as opposed to design. Hope is the only planned victim of some sort of complex machination in the series. Everyone else is just someone Killgrave destroyed on a whim and without a second thought or were his parents. Comic Killgrave didn't even give it a second thought when Jessica escaped his control, while Netflix Killgrave obsessed over it.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:24
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Hi I'm Jessie Jones one of my superpowers is I can only jump enough to reach a balcony, no matter how high it is. I still have to climb over the fence/wall.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:27
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Gyges posted:Comic Killgrave is comic villainous. Netflix Killgrave is a selfish, egotistical, monster that largely hurts others through callous disregard as opposed to design. Hope is the only planned victim of some sort of complex machination in the series. Everyone else is just someone Killgrave destroyed on a whim and without a second thought or were his parents. Comic Killgrave didn't even give it a second thought when Jessica escaped his control, while Netflix Killgrave obsessed over it. I thought Malcolm was a planned victim. He was the first person she saved and he got him hooked on drugs so he could take photos of Jessica.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:28
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As it turns out, Jessica Jones is about ethics in game journalism http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/television/2015/11/marvel_s_jessica_jones_and_gamergate_how_the_netflix_series_absorbed_the.html quote:Jessica Jones is our first identifiably post-Gamergate thriller.  Slate
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Nov 24, 2015 23:47
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Azhais posted:As it turns out, Jessica Jones is about ethics in game journalism My God it's full of stars!
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Nov 24, 2015 23:55
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Azhais posted:As it turns out, Jessica Jones is about ethics in game journalism This is perhaps the dumbest statement I have ever seen on the internet.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:11
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Azhais posted:As it turns out, Jessica Jones is about ethics in game journalism oh Arthur Chu you scamp
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Nov 25, 2015 00:11
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Once Hilary is president, will we finally live in a post Gamergate world? This goon is skeptical.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:16
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The Sharmat posted:Snak: I think you're selling Daredevil a bit short there since people actually kind of highlight the absurdity of Matt's position quite a bit, and also the difficulty of not killing Fisk primarily came from just how badly Matt wanted to. Nah, I've watched Daredevil all the way through three times now. Matt's arc is a much more generic arc we've seen a bunch of times in super-hero stories.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:25
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The Sharmat posted:Once Hilary is president, will we finally live in a post Gamergate world? This goon is skeptical.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:26
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bobkatt013 posted:I thought Malcolm was a planned victim. He was the first person she saved and he got him hooked on drugs so he could take photos of Jessica. I'm really not sure how much of that was happenstance or not. It's not like either of them saw Malcolm's face when he was getting the poo poo kicked out of him. Also it seems fairly unlikely for Killgrave to remember somebody he met, let alone some rando literally on the street. Unless Malcolm came across Jessica later to thank her and Killgrave was there or something. It seems more of a happenstance, like Simpson just happening to be a knock off super soldier.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:37
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Snak posted:Nah, I've watched Daredevil all the way through three times now. Matt's arc is a much more generic arc we've seen a bunch of times in super-hero stories. I won't disagree with this. The novelty comes from it being the first time the arc didn't make me roll my eyes despite having lots of screentime. Toplowtech posted:Yeah like Obama's election meant that "racism was over". Symbolic issues; symbolic success, yet still real problems. But seriously it's a decent show, why inject that poo poo in the discussion when the comics it's based on is year older than #hastags. You should give my serious posts serious answers.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:43
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Just because Gamergate started as a hashtag doesn't mean it's not a real source of actual serious problems for a non-zero number of women. Less importantly, that article is basically just "This show for nerds about harassment is clearly a reference to Nerd Harassment and not harassment in general, because Nerd Harassment is relevant to me and therefore my reading connecting the two is valid."
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Nov 25, 2015 00:52
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Gamergate is dumb. People who talk about gamergate are dumb. I'm getting dumber even as I type these words.
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Nov 25, 2015 00:54
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Jessica Jones Easter Eggs & References
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Nov 25, 2015 01:02
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