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SgCloud posted:I was in Kopenhagen for a few days with a friend last year and I gotta say our impression was exactly the opposite of what you described. There did seem to be as much fresh fruit and vegetables in normal stores and the smal snack providers also seemed to serve much healthier food (e. g. sandwiches), than here in Germany (we were especially suprised at the amount of Sushi you can get in the capital). All in all we were extremely baffled as to how much healther the average Dane looked to the average German.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:14
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Effectronica posted:Reducing the average workday would be a good start, Not enough is being talked about this. How in the hell do you expect people to cook healthy things at home or exercise regularly when they have to work multiple jobs, have hosed up split shifts or get to work massive amounts of unscheduled overtime? Even if you do nothing more than sit at a deck, you're going to be mentally exhausted after 10-12 hours of that. We keep talking about throwing fad diets out and moving towards a model of having better habits, but that lack of control and stability can be a significant hurdle.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:14
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Solkanar512 posted:Not enough is being talked about this. How in the hell do you expect people to cook healthy things at home or exercise regularly when they have to work multiple jobs, have hosed up split shifts or get to work massive amounts of unscheduled overtime? Even if you do nothing more than sit at a deck, you're going to be mentally exhausted after 10-12 hours of that. A lot of that has nothing to do with the average workday. For example, you might work multiple jobs but still only work 40 hours a week.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:17
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Alright, this is from the Huffington Post on typical school meals. No issue here, then? Fried "popcorn" chicken, mashed potatoes, peas, fruit cup and a chocolate chip cookie.  Fish soup, tofu over rice, kimchi and fresh veggies. Sorry, I'll stop responding to fishmech posts now. sweek0 fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 15:19
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sweek0 posted:Alright, this is from the Huffington Post on typical school meals. No issue here, then? Yes, there's nothing wrong with that dude! Here's something you need to understand: fresh veggies instead of what, frozen, aren't going to make you less fat. sweek0 posted:Sorry, I'll stop respond to fishmech posts now. Oh I see, you just want to whine about how degenerate America is and act like having unappetizing looking lunch makes people fat. Good to know you don't care about the reality of food at all!
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Nov 25, 2015 15:21
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Also what they don't tell you about fish is that most of it is frozen anyway, the "fresh" stuff is just left out to go bad quicker.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:22
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Solkanar512 posted:Not enough is being talked about this. How in the hell do you expect people to cook healthy things at home or exercise regularly when they have to work multiple jobs, have hosed up split shifts or get to work massive amounts of unscheduled overtime? Even if you do nothing more than sit at a deck, you're going to be mentally exhausted after 10-12 hours of that. Cooking nutritious meals doesn't take enormous amounts of time or effort unless you want it to
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Nov 25, 2015 15:22
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computer parts posted:Also what they don't tell you about fish is that most of it is frozen anyway, the "fresh" stuff is just left out to go bad quicker. I have absolutely no issue with frozen food. Frozen fish and vegetables tend to contain more nutrition than their fresh counterparts.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:23
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sweek0 posted:I have absolutely no issue with frozen food. Frozen fish and vegetables tend to contain more nutrition than their fresh counterparts. Well you were just trying to act like the fresh vegetables in the korean lunch was supposedly a point in its favor versus the presumably non-"fresh" potatoes and peas in the american lunch.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:25
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fishmech posted:Well you were just trying to act like the fresh vegetables in the korean lunch was supposedly a point in its favor versus the presumably non-"fresh" potatoes and peas in the american lunch.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:27
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sweek0 posted:I never mentioned freshness? The description of the Korean meal has that word on it, that's all. It's a comparison of the nutritional values of those school lunches. Where's the comparison? All I saw in your post is a list of ingredients, and you using it to try to imply therefore the American one is bad. When there's nothing objectively wrong in either meal.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:29
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computer parts posted:A lot of that has nothing to do with the average workday. For example, you might work multiple jobs but still only work 40 hours a week. Why are you only considering averages when I'm talking about something completely different? Also, you understand that there's a thing called travel time, right? Or that shifts might not line up nicely with available transit options? Series DD Funding posted:Cooking nutritious meals doesn't take enormous amounts of time or effort unless you want it to You must have missed the part where I was talking about the effort required to change all sorts of habits for the long term. I don't really care if you have a 10 minute recipe for boiled chicken breast and raw veggies because that isn't the point. We're talking about changing habits (eating, exercise and sleep) for a lifetime here, not your favorite way to season rice and beans.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:46
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Solkanar512 posted:You must have missed the part where I was talking about the effort required to change all sorts of habits for the long term. I don't really care if you have a 10 minute recipe for boiled chicken breast and raw veggies because that isn't the point. We're talking about changing habits (eating, exercise and sleep) for a lifetime here, not your favorite way to season rice and beans. Yes, and the habits to be developed are not difficult. It's like saying after long shifts at work there's no time to brush your teeth
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Nov 25, 2015 15:48
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Solkanar512 posted:Why are you only considering averages when I'm talking about something completely different? Also, you understand that there's a thing called travel time, right? Or that shifts might not line up nicely with available transit options? Of course transit times exist, but your argument is much more solid if you instead argue for regaining full time employment instead of "cutting the work week".
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Nov 25, 2015 15:48
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Realistically the quickest way to cut down on people needing to work multiple jobs is probably to bump up the minimum wage a lot.
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Nov 25, 2015 15:53
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Series DD Funding posted:Yes, and the habits to be developed are not difficult. It's like saying after long shifts at work there's no time to brush your teeth No one can shop/prepare/cook/eat a healthy meal in the time it takes to brush one's teeth. Nor can they go for a run or get a good night's sleep. This is an incredibly bad comparison. computer parts posted:Of course transit times exist, but your argument is much more solid if you instead argue for regaining full time employment instead of "cutting the work week". Then why didn't you say that before? Even for those who are fully employed, you're ignoring the point I brought up about overtime. fishmech posted:Realistically the quickest way to cut down on people needing to work multiple jobs is probably to bump up the minimum wage a lot. Yeah, I agree here.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:00
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Solkanar512 posted:No one can shop/prepare/cook/eat a healthy meal in the time it takes to brush one's teeth. Nor can they go for a run or get a good night's sleep. This is an incredibly bad comparison. Help me d&d, what is a simile  What you're missing is that it's not about lack of time. All the time in the world can't give you carrots that taste like oreos.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:22
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Make your meals in advance. I use Saturdays to cook food for the week. Then I can just heat stuff up in the microwave. If you work two jobs and dont have a day off that sucks, and I think working that much is more unhealthy than a cheeseburger.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:28
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Series DD Funding posted:Help me d&d, what is a simile You're being absolutely ridiculous if you think that the inability for many people to have control over a or simply plan a significant portion of their day isn't a real hurdle towards improving long term habits. How about addressing the points I'm making rather than whining that I won't accept your terrible framing? Cole posted:Make your meals in advance. I use Saturdays to cook food for the week. Then I can just heat stuff up in the microwave. See, this isn't that hard to understand. If you're working multiple jobs or you're working one job that eats up your whole loving life, it gets in the way of doing the things to keep yourself healthy. It's not the only cause or even the primary cause, but it's a problem for a whole lot of people.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:41
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Solkanar512 posted:You're being absolutely ridiculous if you think that the inability for many people to have control over a or simply plan a significant portion of their day isn't a real hurdle towards improving long term habits. How about addressing the points I'm making rather than whining that I won't accept your terrible framing? You aren't making any points. Putting frozen vegetables in the microwave and seasoning doesn't take more than a few minutes. Making rice doesn't take more than a few minutes, and is easier than brushing your teeth if you have a $10 rice cooker. Putting salad in a bowl and mixing with dressing doesn't take more than a few minutes. These things are all easy to do, and having more time won't make them happen for more people.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:47
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Solkanar512 posted:
And how many people are working multiple jobs? From the Bureau of Labor Statistics quote:In 2009, 7.3 million workers held more than one job, and the multiple jobholding rate—the proportion of total employment made up of multiple jobholders—was 5.2 percent. this is a small number of people compared to amount of overweight people in america. Yes it sucks for any one working two jobs to eat healthy and makes live harder but its not the majority of overweight are also working two jobs.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:51
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Series DD Funding posted:You aren't making any points. Putting frozen vegetables in the microwave and seasoning doesn't take more than a few minutes. Making rice doesn't take more than a few minutes, and is easier than brushing your teeth if you have a $10 rice cooker. Putting salad in a bowl and mixing with dressing doesn't take more than a few minutes. These things are all easy to do, and having more time won't make them happen for more people. To be fair, you have to first go to the grocery store and buy those things before you can eat them. I love cooking, but I absolutely despise grocery shopping because it's a completely awful experience in every way (I still do it, mind you), so I can see how that would be the final straw that deters people from cooking for themselves.
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Nov 25, 2015 16:53
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PT6A posted:To be fair, you have to first go to the grocery store and buy those things before you can eat them. I love cooking, but I absolutely despise grocery shopping because it's a completely awful experience in every way (I still do it, mind you), so I can see how that would be the final straw that deters people from cooking for themselves. Although yes I understand that cheap junk food is more easily available. But having a number of good staple foods such as cans of beans, rice, porridge, some fruit and frozen vegetables really isn't all that difficult.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:10
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Series DD Funding posted:You aren't making any points. Putting frozen vegetables in the microwave and seasoning doesn't take more than a few minutes. Making rice doesn't take more than a few minutes, and is easier than brushing your teeth if you have a $10 rice cooker. Putting salad in a bowl and mixing with dressing doesn't take more than a few minutes. These things are all easy to do, and having more time won't make them happen for more people. I said it twice and now I've even put it in bold for you. Solkanar512 posted:You must have missed the part where I was talking about the effort required to change all sorts of habits for the long term. I don't really care if you have a 10 minute recipe for boiled chicken breast and raw veggies because that isn't the point. We're talking about changing habits (eating, exercise and sleep) for a lifetime here, not your favorite way to season rice and beans. There's more to being healthy than just eating leafy greens. Exercise on a regular basis is highly beneficial, as is sleep. I've said this several times already, so it looks like you're not interested in discussing this in good faith. BexGu posted:And how many people are working multiple jobs? From the Bureau of Labor Statistics First off, I already said that the issue of work (in general) isn't the only or primary cause of this problem, just that it's a factor. The fact that people working multiple jobs is a small number doesn't change things. Solkanar512 posted:Not enough is being talked about this. How in the hell do you expect people to cook healthy things at home or exercise regularly when they have to work multiple jobs, have hosed up split shifts or get to work massive amounts of unscheduled overtime? Even if you do nothing more than sit at a deck, you're going to be mentally exhausted after 10-12 hours of that. Solkanar512 posted:See, this isn't that hard to understand. If you're working multiple jobs or you're working one job that eats up your whole loving life, it gets in the way of doing the things to keep yourself healthy. It's not the only cause or even the primary cause, but it's a problem for a whole lot of people. Do you see how I list three very specific issues when it comes to jobs? Multiple jobs, hosed up/split shifts and massive/irregular overtime? See how I group them together? What is the point of your response if you're only going to address one part of the three and ignore the fact that I'm only talking about one of many causes?
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Nov 25, 2015 17:20
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Did a guy a page ago just compare counting calories to building a house. I think he did .
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Nov 25, 2015 17:20
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sweek0 posted:You have to do that for junk food, too! And you can do that shopping online. Are people really getting fat because they're going to the store and buying tons of junk food and soda, though? Or are they getting fat because, gently caress it, it's a lot easier to hit McDonald's on the way home than anything else. Before I got serious about eating healthier, I never bought junk food to eat at home, I just ate out constantly because I was lazy.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:22
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PT6A posted:To be fair, you have to first go to the grocery store and buy those things before you can eat them. I love cooking, but I absolutely despise grocery shopping because it's a completely awful experience in every way (I still do it, mind you), so I can see how that would be the final straw that deters people from cooking for themselves. It takes just as long to walk into a store and get a premade salad as it does to wait in a drive thru or buy junk food from the same store. Instead of chips, get almonds. Instead of soda, drink flavored water. You have to grocery shop for the food that makes you obese. Instead, replace the unhealthy stuff with healthy stuff (like the two examples I gave above). If you are eating fast food, make a stop in the grocery store and get a premade salad instead. You literally just pour it in a bowl and put dressing on it. That is all it takes to prepare. And make your bigger meals (chicken, fish, vegetable sides, etc) in bulk on your day off for the week and reheat them when it is meal time. There is seriously no excuse for eating like poo poo other than a lack of self control or just not really caring too much about your health. A cheeseburger every now and then won't kill you. I give myself one day a week to have a terrible meal and a soda as a reward for eating healthy the rest of the week. E: I will also never cut out bacon because that is for communists. Cole fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 17:24
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euphronius posted:Did a guy a page ago just compare counting calories to building a house. I think he did . He did, I saw it! He also said that saying losing weight is just about eating less is like saying running a marathon is just about running continuously for a while. Which is also true; if I wanted to run a marathon, I would start by running on a regular basis until my endurance built up to the point I could do it long enough to complete a marathon distance.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:25
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PT6A posted:Are people really getting fat because they're going to the store and buying tons of junk food and soda, though? Yes, that seems to be what the "just buy rice & beans" people are arguing.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:26
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PT6A posted:Are people really getting fat because they're going to the store and buying tons of junk food and soda, though? Or are they getting fat because, gently caress it, it's a lot easier to hit McDonald's on the way home than anything else. I don't think it's an either or. Yes, fast food outlets are easy, convenient, and strategically located to try and get people to buy their dinner there. But looking at what people pick up from grocery stores, what products have special offers on them (nearly always the junk food), what kind of products are placed near the check out., the misguided labelling, etc. I think supermarkets are a huge factor as well.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:28
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McDonalds is ridiculously expensive for what it is. IMHO most people get fat on soda, snacks, booze and desserts.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:28
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Cole posted:It takes just as long to walk into a store and get a premade salad as it does to wait in a drive thru or buy junk food from the same store. Are people really going to a proper grocery store, bypassing all the delicious healthy food and shovelling pure poo poo into their cart? I thought the obesity crisis was much more about people consistently eating fast food and the sort of frozen garbage you can pick up at the corner store because they're lazy. Maybe I'm just naive. I agree that preparing proper food is basically as easy and quick as you want to make it. I love cooking and I do it regularly, I'm just saying that, when I don't do it, it's because grocery shopping is so miserable that eating out seems like a much more convenient option. EDIT: If I were hungry right now and had no food, I could either go to the pub that's 100 feet away from my door and grab a burger, or I could walk 800 metres to the grocery store and subject myself to one of my least favourite chores ever (seriously, I'd rather scrub toilets than go grocery shopping) and then cook myself a proper meal. Cooking and cleaning is the good, fun part of that equation though. PT6A fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 17:29
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Also American restaurant portions are just out of loving control. Cheesecake Factory portions are routine now it's a national disgrace.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:29
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PT6A posted:Are people really going to a proper grocery store, bypassing all the delicious healthy food and shovelling pure poo poo into their cart? I thought the obesity crisis was much more about people consistently eating fast food and the sort of frozen garbage you can pick up at the corner store because they're lazy. Maybe I'm just naive. It is a combination between bad food choices while shopping, fast food, and a lack of physical activity. I used to binge eat but was blessed with a high metabolism. Now that I'm almost 30 i can't do that, so I have had to change my eating habits over the last couple of years. I found this out when I put on 20 pounds relatively quickly. It took a lot of work and I would still kill an entire thing of goldfish in a single sitting every now and then for the first several months, but I'm physically healthier now than I have been in years. Another issue is that people eat junk food to get full. You should never get a bag of oreos and eat them until you are no longer hungry. Ever. That is what your main meals are for.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:34
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Solkanar512 posted:There's more to being healthy than just eating leafy greens. Exercise on a regular basis is highly beneficial, as is sleep. I've said this several times already, so it looks like you're not interested in discussing this in good faith.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:34
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My point was you all are demonizing fast food but it's all restaurants in the us that are a problem.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:37
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PT6A posted:Are people really getting fat because they're going to the store and buying tons of junk food and soda, though? Or are they getting fat because, gently caress it, it's a lot easier to hit McDonald's on the way home than anything else. They're getting fat because they do all of the things and then also eat what they perceive as "healthy" food as well. PT6A posted:Are people really going to a proper grocery store, bypassing all the delicious healthy food and shovelling pure poo poo into their cart? I thought the obesity crisis was much more about people consistently eating fast food and the sort of frozen garbage you can pick up at the corner store because they're lazy. Maybe I'm just naive. You are being naive there. You gotta be in a bit of an upper income bracket, or to have unusually cheap living expenses otherwise, to actually be able to afford that stuff on a regular basis in amounts that are gonna get you fat. Like the dollar frozen food things that everyone can afford, there's not all that much food in them! Like they're usually around 300-500 calories in 'em. No, the crisis is about the fact that people simply eat a lot of food. Tons of the obese people out there only eat supposedly "bad foods" or fast food on rare occasions, but since they're eating just so much in general it doesn't matter.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:38
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Never mind, misunderstood the point. You can eat salad and get fat. Portion control is a big issue. But portion control is a bigger issue with junk food because the serving sizes are typically smaller and less filling than healthy food. Cole fucked around with this message at 17:43 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 17:40
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SgCloud posted:I have an American professor here at the University of Leipzig in Germany who left the States because, according to his words, the whole country was going more and more nuts. One of the things he told me that distinguishes Europe from the US is that in the letter its way harder to get fresh vegetables and fruit at an affordable price. Where does this myth keep coming from? Because it makes absolutely no sense from an economics perspective. Why would paying someone to prepare your food be any cheaper than preparing it yourself? Maybe you should stop forming your opinions on other countries base on the sayings of some idiot professor who obviously moved away out of sheer butthurt. Also: http://www.ibtimes.com/us-spends-less-food-any-other-country-world-maps-1546945 Ervin K fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 17:42
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euphronius posted:Also American restaurant portions are just out of loving control. Cheesecake Factory portions are routine now it's a national disgrace. Eh, on the other hand it's culturally acceptable to take home half your meal here, while in Europe you get weird looks if that happens.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:49
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