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Psion posted:hahah yeah, Questioner, please report back to Tripwire HQ that "you just unlocked a cosmetic skin for a weapon you don't own" is an outcome that should never happen. Yeah, gently caress that noise. Personal opinion, of course.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:13
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Knifegrab posted:How do you know, all they mentioned is new weapons will be on sale, that doesn't mean you can buy them direct, it could just also be a weapon crate. We don't know enough to say how weapons will be sold but the fact that what they're selling is weapons in any form is still a bummer to me. I - Questioner86 posted:One thing that is kinda cool about this system is that is kinda gets rid of the need for DLC packs. We want to do a bunch of character skins like we did in KF1? Put them on the store and mark them as non-tradable/marketable items and you have the same result. The only difference for you as a player is buying the skins in-game with your steam wallet funds vs. buying them in the steam store page. ...well, okay, not regular ol' DLC packs. Will weapons be like this, too, Questioner? That would actually probably be an improvement over DLC packs, as you could just buy only the guns you want and they can be released as soon as they're finished without waiting for other weapons to be done to be released in a pack.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:22
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Questioner86 posted:One thing that is kinda cool about this system is that is kinda gets rid of the need for DLC packs. We want to do a bunch of character skins like we did in KF1? Put them on the store and mark them as non-tradable/marketable items and you have the same result. The only difference for you as a player is buying the skins in-game with your steam wallet funds vs. buying them in the steam store page. So is the plan to make Skins/Weapons available for straight purchase through the in-game ? It read to me like random crates drop and you pay (real dosh) to open them with a "?" for what you get? (This might be due to English not being my mother tongue) Or are both available? I'd appreciate if you can clarify this. P.S. My beloved one really likes the punk you put into KF2. The lack of a female avatar really irked her in KF1.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:24
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I can't comment on weapons because we don't yet have any weapon DLC planned yet (I mean DLC weapons, not skins for existing weapons) but if you look on the announcement page some of the things listed are the classic Foster skins, London bobby Briar skins and motorcycle armor Tanaka skins. http://killingfloor2.com/Zedconomy/details.html Those are just regular old skin packs that you purchase via the in-game store and have nothing to do with crates, keys or anything like that. Might as well use the opportunity to lay this whole system out and eliminate confusion: The store contains non-tradable/marketable cosmetic skins. You can buy these with cash from your steam wallet and run around in your classic Mr. Foster pin-stripe suit for a few bux. In the future we have the ability to tie any piece of content to this system. Skins, characters, weapons, weapon skins, etc. Currently the only thing we have is costumes for existing characters. When you play the game you'll occasionally get an item drop. Most of the time this item drop will be a new hat, sunglasses, bandanna, or weapon skin. Some of these are common and some of them are more rare. You can trade or sell these items. Sometimes you'll get a blueprint or crate instead of an item. These can be sold or traded to other players. The crates/blueprints need to be unlocked with keys (which you buy/trade for in the marketplace) and contain a rare or exclusive cosmetic weapon skin or cosmetic item. Those weapon skins and cosmetic items can be sold or traded. I may be forgetting something but that's the whole system.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:40
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Yeah thay said that they are adding a cash shop into the game along with Zed-Conomy (the name is still stupid), so I guess that's where you'll be able to buy new guns/sidegrades/some of the skins. That way you don't need to spend money to remain competetive, you can count on free drops for guns, or you can drop some real life dosh and have it at the get go. "Competetive" in this context means "having as much content as everyone" since this is a coop game. I still think the game is fun as it is, and since this was inevitable, I eagerly welcome our new Microtransaction overlords. The Subscription Workshop is still gonna be the best part of this upcoming update. EDIT: But one thing I wish that Tripwire did copy from Payday 2 is that PD2 announces content when they're ready to drop it, not "oh hey we will add this at some point in the future", especially with content like this everyone wants to get their hand on it and we're not given any time frame for when it releases 
Kikas fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Nov 24, 2015 |
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Nov 24, 2015 20:40
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Questioner86 posted:I may be forgetting something but that's the whole system. Thanks, that reads pretty cool. Just for the record: I'm quite okay with modders being able to earn money for additions. Considering that assets for a game have become more time intensive to create.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:45
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I've always had weird feelings when it comes with skins on guns, I just feel like 99% of the skins just make them gaudy as gently caress. Guns don't really seem like interesting things to stick skins on without making them look dumb.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:47
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i prefer to make them both gaudy and dumb.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:50
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Questioner86 posted:I may be forgetting something but that's the whole system. So to confirm, you can't get new weapons (not skins, weapons) from crates, right? That's the thing that wasn't 100% clear to me.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:53
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Drakes posted:I've always had weird feelings when it comes with skins on guns, I just feel like 99% of the skins just make them gaudy as gently caress. Guns don't really seem like interesting things to stick skins on without making them look dumb.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:58
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Right. The crates and blueprints are for cosmetic wearable items and weapon SKINS respectively. I know for a fact there are no weapons currently tied to the crate system and while I can't be sure because I'm not President of Bad Decisions at Tripwire Interactive I sincerely doubt we'll be tying actual weapons to that system in the future.
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Nov 24, 2015 20:58
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Questioner86 posted:Right. Cool, thanks!
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Nov 24, 2015 21:05
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I found myself just the other day wondering if Tripwire decided on a continual income method yet. I remembered it was a question hanging in the air before early access release with the response of "maybe microtransactions for inconsequential cosmetic things, we'll see" being given as the stand-in response at that time. As it stands, I'm cool with it. I actually almost prefer this to be in place before full release since it gives a chance to squash any potential bugs in implementation while still working on the game itself.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:06
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Because this is a co-op game I honestly couldn't give two shits about how they distribute other weapons. I didn't care about not having some DLC weapons in KF1 and I can't see that changing here. I just can't get worked up about what other people are firing. So long as body parts keep flying into the air I'm going to be happy.
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Nov 24, 2015 22:16
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I'm gonna go ahead and predict them tying weapons into this and affecting gameplay with their cash store independent of what questionarre says. Not saying he's trying to be deceptive but if they are cash grabbing already they'll probably realize they can cash grab more effectively if they actual tie in game changing weapons/items to their micro transaction system. I hope I'm wrong but I've been seeing this trend a lot lately.
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Nov 24, 2015 23:03
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Just got an Email response from tripwire after I sent them a polite email with some of my stupid concerns. Only took them half a day to respond. I contacted them via the "contact" link on the Tripwire, not KF2, website (they are similar). Check it out here, if you care: "That is a valid concern and it is possible. However that is not our intention and we know the Zwiehander has some balance issues right now and are looking into them to address for the future. While it may not always be perfect we will try and keep and such future content if it does happen as side-grades." Here's my original message: "I've been playing KF since the near the start of the first game on steam. So far I have loved the new game. But I have one very serious concern, and that's rooted in the language Tripwire is using around "advantages" and the recent update. I'll try to keep this short. From the FAQ: "In the future we may be adding weapons with new gameplay for sale , but this will appear in the “Shared Content” area on the server. This means that, if any player on the server has a weapon ... then every player on the server will be able to use it. No-one gets any “advantage”. Co-op game - everyone starts out equal!" There'a really clear problem with this for me. While this game is Co-op, it is entirely possible to develop a new "side-grade" weapon with gameplay that offers advantages in higher difficulties (or in general), like the Zwie-hander already does. The obvious issue with this is while a purchasable side grade may be available to everyone within a game where one person owns it, you don't get the weapon otherwise. They keep talking about how everyone starts out equal and no one has an advantage, but this isn't true because some teams on Suicidal receive a sidegrade weapon and others don't, because no one in the party bought it. They're obviously looking at advantage and "equality" from the stand point of what is happening on a single server, which is stupid, because there are at once hundreds of servers playing the same difficulty. Do you seem my point? Tripwire never seems to address this concern and I think it's very valid. Thank you for your time!!"
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Nov 24, 2015 23:44
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I wish tripwire would finish the game they're charging $40 for. I'd rather have bugfixes and the missing classes instead of a new way for them to ask for money. This is the only game I've bought in early access. Expected tripwire to be better than all the other devs in early access. I really should have known better.
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Nov 25, 2015 03:04
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I like the new system. It makes sense, and the occasional drop is a nice bonus to keep playing. Doubt I'll be buying stuff, but who knows what I'll do after a couple of bottles wine on a Saturday night? drat you Tripwire for exploiting my alcoholism!!! Will we be able to get the Dosh jacket? The one PC Gamer was giving out?
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Nov 25, 2015 04:08
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http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/11/24/tripwire-on-killing-floor-2-microtransactions-this-is-the-right-thing-for-the-game Tripwire president gets interviewed about people whining and gives surprisingly tactful responses. Here's an important tidbit for a really common complaint people keep saying: quote:One common piece of feedback we're seen since we announced the Trading Floor is that some players are upset that we added this system in Early Access, with the feeling that we should be spending our time on making playable content, not on adding an in-game economy. First let me say that about 90-95% of the items we're shipping with the Trading Floor were made by the community. Second, the developers working on the Trading Floor backend are not the same developers that make maps, weapons, monsters, gameplay, etc. So to put it another way, the Trading Floor in no way delayed or impacted when new gameplay content would ship.
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Nov 25, 2015 07:57
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I wonder if there will be an unlock all script like payday
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Nov 25, 2015 09:23
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Liquid Penguins posted:I wonder if there will be an unlock all script like payday The items will be tied to the Steam market. So no.
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Nov 25, 2015 09:42
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Theta Zero posted:The items will be tied to the Steam market. They are in payday too and there is an unlock all script anyway
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Nov 25, 2015 09:51
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Liquid Penguins posted:They are in payday too and there is an unlock all script anyway Payday 2 is also a legendarily shittily engineered game. I have a feeling Killing Floor 2 is gonna be a little more secure.
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Nov 25, 2015 09:59
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Now I can get back to worrying about REAL problems. That SWAT might have guns that can't kill a clot in one headshot, and that I'm still bad at Suicidal.
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Nov 25, 2015 10:25
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Liquid Penguins posted:They are in payday too and there is an unlock all script anyway Payday is a horrendous hackjob of a game, so much so that its quirks and bugs are part of its rough-and-tumble allure. It's fun but part of that fun involves cops getting tangled in their own car doors and turned into taffy, guns disappearing when you shoot them, cops not securing a mountain of cocaine as evidence as long as the clowns don't put it in duffel bags, and general fuckery with stealth detection and civilian behavior.
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Nov 25, 2015 10:34
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In that interview, there's this line:quote:One big thing we heard coming out of the gaming community for another game was that they were angry that an in-game economy was being added so long after the game was released. I assume he's talking about Payday 2, but I never played said game and really didn't pay much attention to it. Were players actually mad that in-game economy was being added LATE in the game? I'm not at all surprised if that's the case but that really drives home the 'you can't make everyone happy' thing.
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Nov 25, 2015 14:07
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Require More Fire posted:I assume he's talking about Payday 2, but I never played said game and really didn't pay much attention to it. Were players actually mad that in-game economy was being added LATE in the game? I'm not at all surprised if that's the case but that really drives home the 'you can't make everyone happy' thing. No, he's either wrong or not talking about Payday 2. People were upset about Overkill's microtransactions scheme being put into Payday 2 because there's really no place for it. And also because there's really no money to be gained from it because of the game's slowly shrinking playerbase, leading it to just be another "me too" on the pile. edit: And also, he didn't address putting economy based stuff into a game while it's in Early Access as a concept, which is probably the most important complaint because while it doesn't affect the developers' time right now, it definitely affects the business model and game design going forward in a very large way. CJacobs fucked around with this message at 14:14 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 14:10
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CJacobs posted:And also because there's really no money to be gained from it because of the game's slowly shrinking playerbase, leading it to just be another "me too" on the pile. Which is why Questioner86 posted:Anyway, what I consider best case scenario for the whole feature is that it becomes hugely successful like it has been for CS:GO and the revenue from the system allows us to keep releasing tons of free content for KF2 for years and years. Require More Fire posted:Were players actually mad that in-game economy was being added LATE in the game? RoadCrewWorker fucked around with this message at 14:40 on Nov 25, 2015 |
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Nov 25, 2015 14:33
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 Yikes
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Nov 25, 2015 14:45
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Just release a good rear end new update next week with this alongside Gunslinger, maps, and the patriarch and shut everyone up plz. I actually like the new system if only for that it let's me make my character look dumber and rewards playtime
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Nov 25, 2015 16:28
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Just release a good rear end new update next week with this alongside Gunslinger, maps, and the patriarch and shut everyone up plz. I actually like the new system if only for that it let's me make my character look dumber and rewards playtime  I actually kind of like the idea of getting a cool loot drop every now and then. I just want some new poo poo to kill that doesn't rhyme with Shmanz.
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Nov 25, 2015 17:26
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The other recent microtransaction debacle aside from Payday 2 was Skyrim so take your pick.FAUXTON posted:guns disappearing when you shoot them Sure, Payday has disappearing guns, but KF2 has disappearing players
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Nov 25, 2015 17:39
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CJacobs posted:No, he's either wrong or not talking about Payday 2. People were upset about Overkill's microtransactions scheme being put into Payday 2 because there's really no place for it. And also because there's really no money to be gained from it because of the game's slowly shrinking playerbase, leading it to just be another "me too" on the pile. I'd argue the thing that pissed off the Payday player base the most was the fact that the weapon skins you could get from microtransactions gave you active stat boosts on your guns. I'm really not sure how to feel about KF2's system. It doesn't help that we haven't seen how frequent the free drops are going to be.
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Nov 25, 2015 18:59
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Psion posted:The other recent microtransaction debacle aside from Payday 2 was Skyrim so take your pick. The next season of League of Legends is going to have loot drops like DOTA 2. It's going to be...weird.
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Nov 25, 2015 19:13
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Pirate Jet posted:I'm really not sure how to feel about KF2's system. It doesn't help that we haven't seen how frequent the free drops are going to be. Oh, yeah, this is a good point. I know that interview said they'd be testing drop rates and things like that - but please be very clear with that. Part of the reason (IMO) CS:GO and TF2 don't get a ton of poo poo for their drops is the system is very well understood - you know what you get and how often you get it. Payday is totally opaque; the players have divined what we think the system is, but it's not 100% consistent and it's more frustrating than not. Being up front with drop rates like, "here is the literal math that describes it" is for the best.
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Nov 25, 2015 19:23
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Pirate Jet posted:I'd argue the thing that pissed off the Payday player base the most was the fact that the weapon skins you could get from microtransactions gave you active stat boosts on your guns. Most of the fire of that could have been avoided if they hadn't started day one of their content week with it. For context, Payday 2 has this week-long event once a year where they ask you to complete tasks to unlock rewards that are released to the community free for the event. This year, it was a mixture of inflating voice actors' twitter followers (which they stopped after everyone complained), reasonable kill-the-enemy challenges, and ones that took a lot of effort (one of which was only completed within a few hours of its deadline). And the very first day of the event, the "reward" for the one we nearly missed the deadline for is that they have a system where you pay $2.50 to open a safe that may have a lovely-looking gun that at most looks nice or has a completely inconsequential stat boost. The furor was fed by the fact that they were confident people would love this, and were releasing more safes/drills from planned content over the course of the event while people were losing their minds and sending death threats to the community moderators. But back on topic, I think a lot of this will blow over because they kind of just came out with it. No pomp or circumstance. Just "We're gonna have it, use it if you like." It's just kind of frustrating since the folks I normally play this with are soured because a lot of stuff went ignored for a long time and they got bored with it, and I hope the lack of updates wasn't due to the marketplace.
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Nov 25, 2015 19:36
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Plan Z posted:I hope the lack of updates wasn't due to the marketplace. Based on the evidence available, this isn't the case. Consequently, the only reasons I can really advance as to why this marketplace is bad are economic reasons that are wholly unrelated to one's ability to play and enjoy the game.
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Nov 25, 2015 20:02
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Pirate Jet posted:I'd argue the thing that pissed off the Payday player base the most was the fact that the weapon skins you could get from microtransactions gave you active stat boosts on your guns. Plus the fact that Payday 2 already had a system in place for getting random loot after every match, and the crate upgrade made it so sometimes instead of getting random loot like normal you got random loot locked in a box you could only open with real money. They essentially replaced loot you used to get with pay-for-loot that was also random. And as you mentioned, they put stat boosts on weapon skins, which is a hilariously dumb idea.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:07
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I wouldn't have minded this if they put it out months after the game came out, but not when the game isn't even close to being done lol. PC shooter devs just love killing their fanbases.
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Nov 25, 2015 21:44
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Accordion Man posted:I wouldn't have minded this if they put it out months after the game came out, but not when the game isn't even close to being done lol. Well KF2 is hardly an alpha. It's more of a closed Beta at this stage. It's certainly a big upgrade compared to KF1. It just has less Perks/Maps at the moment.
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Nov 25, 2015 22:20
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