|
SUPERMAN'S GAL PAL posted:Racism-in-bad-fiction chat reminded me of "Save the Pearls," which got some notoriety a year or two ago when the author had a white, blonde actress in effectively blackface begging for a mate, otherwise she would be shipped to the globally-warmed surface as a laborer to die of radiation. The premise is remaining humans survive underground and have to be paired off by adulthood (and of course it's 18 or 20 for women as opposed to 25 for men); the excuse for the blackface is white people need it just to get by in society because the darkest-skinned people survived "The Heat," the vague, unexplained apocalyptic future this takes place in. Eden, the "heroine," is a titular "Pearl" which is supposed to be derogatory...but the "superior" humans are "Coals." Oh, and Eden's secretly in love with her boss who is also a were-puma/eagle/mutate. Which comes in handy when they end up in a random jungle with terribly portrayed native peoples who somehow aren't mutants from the global warming, which the author claims is the message of the book. SurreptitiousMuffin posted:Yeah that's the one. I gave up not far past that scene, but wikipedia is telling me I made the right choice: Yeah, I tend to abandon books when it involves people below the American age of consent loving, no matter the gender.
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 23:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 16:24 |
|
|
Klaus88 posted:Yeah, I tend to abandon books when it involves people below the American age of consent loving, no matter the gender. You've just ruled out a disturbingly large amount of all scifi and fantasy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 23:22
|
|
|
Practical Demon posted:You've just ruled out a disturbingly large amount of all scifi and fantasy. This is the correct thing to do.
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 23:38
|
|
|
muscles like this? posted:Before they get captured there's also a delightful subplot where they're talking about having to repopulate the human race (because they thought they were alone) and the daughter mentions that she would be more than happy to sex up her father. Seriously, what the hell was with Heinlein and incest?
|
|
#
?
Nov 25, 2015 23:41
|
|
|
his cock, obviously
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 01:47
|
|
|
Thinky Whale posted:Seriously, what the hell was with Heinlein and incest? I don't know this to be true, but I think he actually believed that everyone secretly agreed that incest is fine, it was just some cultural taboo that kept us from saying it. It's a common thing in his books that someone reveals that they're OK with incest and everyone else is shocked at first but then realises that there's actually nothing wrong with it, and I think that's what he thought would or should happen in real life.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 02:05
|
|
|
Tiggum posted:I don't know this to be true, but I think he actually believed that everyone secretly agreed that incest is fine, it was just some cultural taboo that kept us from saying it. It's a common thing in his books that someone reveals that they're OK with incest and everyone else is shocked at first but then realises that there's actually nothing wrong with it, and I think that's what he thought would or should happen in real life. Yeah, he reminds me of the stereotypical engineer or Internet Atheist who thinks that their unexamined biases are perfectly logical, and therefore if everyone would just think about it for a bit... Usually they completely fail to understand some fundamental aspect of humanity that makes their oh-so-logical-and-reasonable conclusions complete nonsense. In the nastier cases this is used to justify pedophilia or other awfulness, but more often it's some seriously weird racial politics. It pops up in sf/f all the drat time, Heinlein, Jack L Chalker, and Spider Robinson being the examples that come to mind off the top of my head.
|
|
#
?
Nov 26, 2015 06:15
|
|
|
I'd say it's some aspect of Utopianism that only exists in the individual fever dreams of sky-fart authors. Even in dingy post-apoc themed stuff there's a drive towards an Ideal Societytm that really, really, really isn't ideal for many people.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 00:07
|
|
|
He was definitely big into the hippy dippy version of "free love" where everyone should just have sex with everyone else.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 05:18
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:Yeah, I tend to abandon books when it involves people below the American age of consent loving, no matter the gender. But 18 is the legal age of consent... I think you misquoted RE:Pearls, I loved the author's explanation for the naming scheme. Essentially 'Pearls' are worthless jewelry, while 'Coal' serves a purpose and is industrious and blahblah-work horse-blah and who needs to be pretty at the end of the world. She just couldn't have called them 'Opals' and had real duality. Hell, even renaming 'Pearls' to 'Talc' would have made sense as talc is super fragile. The mental gymnastics people go through.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 05:46
|
|
|
It does seem to be a feature of scifi in particular that you'll be happily reading a book and suddenly BAM the author's dick slaps you right in the face. I started to read the Uplift trilogy lately and like three pages in he's drooling over a lady in a bikini bringing him a sandwich and siiiigh.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 06:09
|
|
|
Much sci-fi, especially bad sci-fi, still meets all the beats set up in this story, including the subtle (or often very unsubtle) sexism. https://samuelthomaservin.wordpress.com/2014/04/10/if-all-stories-were-written-like-science-fiction-stories/ quote:The planes left from the city airport, which they reached using the city bi-rail. Ann had changed into her travelling outfit, which consisted of a light shirt in polycarbon-derived artifical fabric, which showed off her pert figure, without genetic enhancements, and dark blue pants made of textiles. Her attractive brown hair was uncovered.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 06:31
|
|
|
muscles like this? posted:He was definitely big into the hippy dippy version of "free love" where everyone should just have sex with everyone else. yeah, it's probably this eg. many of the green party "free love" hippies have been outed as pedophiles in germany well maybe "outed" is the wrong word, they didn't even try to hide it
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 07:55
|
|
|
queserasera posted:(Now I'm trying to think of a book that was published maybe 2009-2010 where the authors came up with the "innovative" idea to include YouTube links to filmed scenes during the chapter breaks. They copyrighted this under a twee portmanteau, and it's not cinenovel, but I can't remember what it is. Argh.) In the opening pages, we are informed that the FBI assigns murderers a 'level' between 1 and 25 based on their level of sadistic depravity. Yep. I can't really add anything to that. Does a novel still qualify for this thread if no one expected it to be good in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 09:20
|
|
|
Klaus88 posted:Yeah, I tend to abandon books when it involves people below the American age of consent loving, no matter the gender. You're missing out on Gravity's Rainbow.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 09:25
|
|
|
A human heart posted:You're missing out on Gravity's Rainbow. and quran and bible etc. also tviv and adtrw (well you don't miss much)
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 10:29
|
|
|
Rangpur posted:Hello, poster from several pages and 3 weeks ago! I believe you are referring to Level 26 by Anthony E. Zuiker, the world's first Digi-Novel! (c). I read the first third of it during a couple lunch breaks, back when I worked at Borders. I hadn't heard of the book, but I've now read the first few pages, so thank-you for the best laugh I've had for some days. But there is one thing to add - the killer's amazing alias. Perhaps it was his school nickname; no wonder he slays without mercy. Level 26 by Anthony E. Zuiker posted:It is well known among law enforcement personnel that murderers can be categorized on a scale of twenty- five levels of evil, from the naive opportunists starting out at Level 1 to the organized, premeditated torture- murderers who inhabit Level 25.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 10:51
|
|
|
muscles like this? posted:He was definitely big into the hippy dippy version of "free love" where everyone should just have sex with everyone else. I remember a part in Stranger in a Strange Land that was all about their free love religion where you just follow your heart and get down with whoever you please, it's a healthy and beautiful thing, anything goes, be free! Oh, don't be gay, though. Gross.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 10:57
|
|
|
Don't Jubal and Valentine get it on in SiaSL? I feel like Valentine at least doesn't make any distinction between homosexual and heterosexual sex.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 11:31
|
|
|
Carnival of Shrews posted:But there is one thing to add - the killer's amazing alias. Perhaps it was his school nickname; no wonder he slays without mercy. Steve Dark. Steve. Dark.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 14:58
|
|
|
lenoon posted:Don't Jubal and Valentine get it on in SiaSL? I feel like Valentine at least doesn't make any distinction between homosexual and heterosexual sex. I'd think I would remember that, but then again, it's been long enough that all I really remember now is the polyamorous cult, a digression about a part in Gulliver's Travels where guys hit other guys on the ear with bladders to make them start listening to things, some cannibalism, and a part where Valentine is out being a magician with the girlfriend, and he keeps making her clothes vanish with Mars-magic, which struck me as a real waste of wardrobe. And the part early on where all Jubal's secretaries line up so Valentine can kiss then all in turn, and he asks about kissing guys too, and they say nah, don't do that, it's weird. Rangpur posted:In the opening pages, we are informed that the FBI assigns murderers a 'level' between 1 and 25 based on their level of sadistic depravity. Man. Once you get up to that many levels, you'd have to start getting really, really specific.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 15:26
|
|
|
Thinky Whale posted:I remember a part in Stranger in a Strange Land that was all about their free love religion where you just follow your heart and get down with whoever you please, it's a healthy and beautiful thing, anything goes, be free! Oh, don't be gay, though. Gross. I seem to remember there's some story there about Heinlein's second wife being a heavy influence on what he wrote. I think she suggested he write something that appealed to the hippy crowd and was also responsible for his swing to the right. My predominant memory of Stranger in a Strange Land is that the school library had it and I read it when I was 15. Thought it was kinda stupid at the time but was unsure if I just didn't get it. nonathlon has a new favorite as of 15:33 on Nov 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 15:29
|
|
|
I don't know, I can never decide with that book. It's stupid as hell and never really goes anywhere, but also sometimes I really like reading it - it's so of it's time, even before it's time, this weird magical hippy cult where everyone is just loving 24/7. It's like a lot of Heinlein though, starts great, weird middle after a time skip and then utter trash in parts. Come to think of it, for all that I seem to have read so much of his work, I've only ever really liked Moon is a Harsh Mistress, and even that has an extremely tedious self-insert libertarian character in it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 16:01
|
|
|
outlier posted:My predominant memory of Stranger in a Strange Land is that the school library had it and I read it when I was 15. Thought it was kinda stupid at the time but was unsure if I just didn't get it. You just couldn't grok it.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 19:27
|
|
|
Crossposting from the Geeky Star Wars Loser Thread, but my personal contribution to this thread is the worst book in the whole Expanded Universe. Star Wars: Legacy of the Force: Invincible, by Troy Denning.quote:This is the book that started the feud between Karen Traviss and Troy Denning and is possibly one of the worst novels in the entire EU. You have a pissing match between two authors (lol Mandalorians suck oops all your pet characters are dead fuk u!), a thirty year old Tahiri dressing as a dominatrix and sexually assaulting a 14 year old Ben, then murdering his friend in front of him, Luke Skywalker being a callous jackass who lets Mandalorians and Alliance forces all die for his own ends. Jacen cripples Mirta Gev and then virus bombs Mandalore to kill all the Republic Commando characters, the ridiculously bloody fight scenes which include but are not limited to: A Mandalorian getting his armor crunched into his chest, Jaina hacking Jacen's arm off with a machete (which spurts blood everywhere that Jacen uses bullshit force powers to track Jaina with by making the stains not come out), and a final duel in the incinerator room of a Star Destroyer where Jacen falls into a box of used syringes before getting dumped into a crematorium fire. Arc Hammer has a new favorite as of 20:27 on Nov 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 19:32
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Crossposting from the Geeky Star Wars Loser Thread, but my personal contribution to the worst book in the whole Expanded Universe. 
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 20:03
|
|
|
Troy Denning is a loving hack who said "you know what Star Wars is missing with all those lightsabers? Arterial blood spray and uncomfortable sex scenes!" He also wrote a trilogy where Han Solo's daughter and her boyfriends got into an orgy with the arachnids from Starship Troopers.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 20:26
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Troy Denning is a loving hack who said "you know what Star Wars is missing with all those lightsabers? Arterial blood spray and uncomfortable sex scenes!" Still not the most unprofessional writer in the SW EU. Every SW EU writer was given a codex of sorts of the official 'canon' and told what they could and couldn't write, expect Karen Traviss who said "nope, don't care" and proceeded to write tons of stories where Mandolorians are the bestest evaaaar! and blatantly contradict the previous books. By that point it was a massive shitshow and Denning was the only other 'major" SW EU writer left so the entire last 7 book series was those 2 authors basically flaming each other back and forth until Traviss got fired. pentyne has a new favorite as of 23:50 on Nov 27, 2015 |
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 23:20
|
|
|
pentyne posted:Still not the most unprofessional writer in the SW EU. Knowing only as much as those posts say about the situation, I'd say the one writing about graphic Tarantino death scenes and bug orgies with Han and Leia's daughter was more unprofessional than going "my pet warrior race is awesome". But I'm guessing they both did even worse stuff. I can see why so many people were devastated that Disney said "gently caress this" to the EU.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 23:29
|
|
|
Practical Demon posted:Knowing only as much as those posts say about the situation, I'd say the one writing about graphic Tarantino death scenes and bug orgies with Han and Leia's daughter was more unprofessional than going "my pet warrior race is awesome". But I'm guessing they both did even worse stuff. I can see why so many people were devastated that Disney said "gently caress this" to the EU. I'm honestly not sure what you're implying here, since there was also some great EU stuff. I'll always have a special spot in my heart for Star Wars Goosebumps.  (AKA the galaxy of terror)
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 23:48
|
|
|
I actually really liked Tales From Jabba's Palace as a teen, because I thought seeing the same event from the perspectives of multiple characters, each of whom has their own agendas and concerns, was kinda cool. Probably wouldn't hold up today.
|
|
#
?
Nov 27, 2015 23:53
|
|
|
Seeing an EU display in the library, kid-me was intrigued by the idea of more Star Wars and checked out Truce at Bakura and the Dark Empire comic. Kid-me did not give the EU a second chance.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 01:32
|
|
|
Sham bam bamina! posted:Seeing an EU display in the library, kid-me was intrigued by the idea of more Star Wars and checked out Truce at Bakura and the Dark Empire comic. Kid-me did not give the EU a second chance. The only EU books worth a poo poo are the Thrawn novels by Zahn.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 01:46
|
|
|
I like how the Star Wars EU books are so bad that there's an entire thread about how bad they are in GBS, and it's still leaking into other subforums.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 01:53
|
|
|
Sham bam bamina! posted:Seeing an EU display in the library, kid-me was intrigued by the idea of more Star Wars and checked out Truce at Bakura and the Dark Empire comic. Kid-me did not give the EU a second chance. I read Truce at Bakura because it was the only book left in the scifi/fantasy section of my local library that I hadn't either read or had a cover so obviously terrible that i ignored it even as a child. I think that was the only star wars book I ever read. That library also introduced me to the wildly inappropriate Chung Kuo books which I think I started with book 6 and had all sorts of poo poo like cyber snails in vaginas and blowjobs galore, plus I think what might have been a massive sub plot about loving boys but I don't really want to reread them to confirm.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 01:59
|
|
|
Practical Demon posted:Knowing only as much as those posts say about the situation, I'd say the one writing about graphic Tarantino death scenes and bug orgies with Han and Leia's daughter was more unprofessional than going "my pet warrior race is awesome". But I'm guessing they both did even worse stuff. I can see why so many people were devastated that Disney said "gently caress this" to the EU. As bad as Troy Denning is, Karen Traviss was no slouch. A lot of Traviss hate is unfounded (stuff like the Mandalorians' vested interest in Order 66 or the size of the Clone Army had already existed in the EU before Travis started writing, and she actually explained some of these issues), but it's baffling that people focus on those niggling things when she has a loooot of more and worse problems. Traviss's Republic Commando books are not *bad*, and range from decent (Hard Contact, Triple Zero) to mediocre (Order 66 and IC: 501st). Mostly they're easily ignored, and the anti Jedi sentiment sort of makes sense because the protagonists are Mandos (though all the important Jedi in the series do get a fanboyish obsession with the "noble" mandos). Legacy of the Force is where her major problems start coming into play. First of all, shoving Mandalorians into everything. She wrote a short story set during the Vong War where she tried to make it appear that the Mandalorians were the true threat to the Yuuzhan Vong, rather than the Jedi or the Sith or the New Republic. Then, Boba Fett comes into the story and has nothing to do with anyone else for five books, basically slashing the runtime to have a side story about farmers and bringing her pet characters from RepCom back into the story. Then she decides for Jaina Solo to decide: "You know what? I need to learn how to kill my brother. So naturally I will learn from Boba Fett! Who else, right?" So the novel Revelation is a four hundred page fanwank where every character creams themselves over how great the Mandalorians are, and how their Eurofighter Typhoon ripoffs are soo much better than X-Wings or Tie Fighters. Then Admiral freaking Daala, one of the nuttiest bugfucks in the EU shows up with a pirate fleet of hundred year old battleships armed with Star Trek weaponry ripping through two modern fleets. And then the Mandalorians break into Jacen Solo's ship and kneecap him. Traviss is also responsible for killing off two fan favorites, Mara Jade and Gilad Pellaeon in the most lame ways possible. As well as a bunch of other minor characters that while not significant, were rather entertaining (except for Han's evil twin Sal-Solo.) Her writing style is functionally solid, but her content is just so fanwanky and her views of the Jedi as baby stealing fascist SS officers is goddamn awful. She also created the Galactic Alliance Guard, or GAG troopers, as the loving Gestapo for the good guys. Of the two, I still hate Denning more, because he didn't get fired, and actually got worse without having Traviss to bitch against. This guy treats the Force like it has no limits for anyone, allowing Jedi to punch people through the chest and crush their hearts like they're Mola Ram. He also has one of his pet characters, a dinosaur bird lady, become the most important Jedi ever, who then proceeds to loving murder the current Jedi Grand Master for daring to stay nonviolent. And everyone congratulates her for this murder of an old, peaceful man just sticking up for his principles. And then he went on to write a series where Luke fights a tentacle monster lady.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 02:57
|
|
|
It's kind of impressive when two people battle over how strenuously they can publicly masturbate.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 03:08
|
|
|
Pretty longwinded for a backhanded compliment. And thanks (I think) for jogging my memory, rangpur. Anthony E. Zuiker's written other stinkers. (And Steve Dark's name in the German translation is Dunkle Seele.) Murder in Mystery Manor posted:British butler Giles has taken a job for three times his usual salary. He is soon to find out that he will forever be cursed and faced with allowing a group of unknowing people to meet a killer so maniacal and twisted that the murders are virtually motiveless. Giles welcomes ten guests to a luxurious estate where they will be embarking on a diabolical game of life and death. Giles, while on the guests' side, is a leader who will get out of the way of the killer and stand by as one person in each chapter is murdered in an outrageous manner. For example, one murder is a choreographed shark where the guests have to retrieve the victim's head from the shark's body. Another murder will be at the hands of a driverless car ala Stephen King's Christine. After each murder, the rest of the guests will have their choice of investigating the crime scene, the body or the last known whereabouts. They then must present their account of the details of the murder. The two whose assessments are least accurate will not sleep easy, knowing one of them will be killed shortly and painfully. In the end, we will be left with the winner, the loser and the killer. The epilogue will set up Giles's continued journey and Book 2.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 03:09
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Karen Traviss apologist Her biggest problem was taking internal issues and complaints and publicly raging about them online everywhere she could. The Denning-Traviss book flame wars could've been stopped by the editorial staff but no one at the SW EU gave a gently caress. She's probably burned every bridge/inroad she made after getting the SW books (a good deal for a mediocre author) and has tumbled down the list to writing video game novels, then comic book novels and now has to write her own original fiction.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 03:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 9, 2024 16:24 |
|
|
queserasera posted:Pretty longwinded for a backhanded compliment. This is the flap copy (or digital equivalent)? Like, he's trying to sell us the book with this? Also, boy am I glad I gave up the EU after that dumb bug trilogy.
|
|
#
?
Nov 28, 2015 03:49
|
|
